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EliteSlave M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.24 15:58:00 - [1] Ok, I have been reading the CSM forums for the past few days, and I have come to the conclusion that they are worthless and not going to help the Game in anyway, Reason being is that, 80% of the the CSM's are carebears (Besides the Goons) that are discussing topics such as "Capital-Online" or "Titans and Cynojammers" and how to circumvent it. I am calling for impeachment of the current Carebear CSM's as they have no experience w/the topics of 0.0 being discussed,Also, as we have seen nothing to date has changed nor will it, Or if this will not happen that the CSM delegation be split up into 2 divisions consisting of 0.0 / low sec only pilots, and the other division being that of the Empire Carebears.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:04:00 - [2] Id actually truly forgotten about the CSM. I had a look at the 'proclamation' thread and its empty? Where should i be looking for anything pertinant? SKUNK
Deviana Sevidon Panta-Rhei	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:05:00 - [3] Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 24/06/2008 16:05:25 First of all, because the chairman of the CSM is not in a 0.0 alliance, does not automatically mean that he is a carebear. About the calls for impeachment, that are 80% goonies and their alts and fanboys that could not get there candidate as a chairman of the CSM. Instead of living with the fact and move on, they now try to get their epic lulz by ruining it for everybody else. Third the topics are discussed by the CSM, because they were brought up to them by the playerbase. Democracy would be great, if we can ever make the damn thing work.
Trojanman190 D00M.	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:10:00 - [4] Just ignore it. The CSM is so far beyond saving that it's rediculous. How anyone thought we could have an unbiased 3rd party between us and the devs completely blows my mind. They weren't going to change the game before and they certainly aren't going to change the game now.
EliteSlave M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:12:00 - [5] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 24/06/2008 16:05:25 First of all, because the chairman of the CSM is not in a 0.0 alliance, does not automatically mean that he is a carebear. About the calls for impeachment, that are 80% goonies and their alts and fanboys that could not get there candidate as a chairman of the CSM. Instead of living with the fact and move on, they now try to get their epic lulz by ruining it for everybody else. Third the topics are discussed by the CSM, because they were brought up to them by the playerbase. Democracy would be great, if we can ever make the damn thing work. Living in Empire = Carebear with all the Froth on top. CSM's that live in Empire SHOULD NOT DISCUSS THE FATE OF 0.0 Aspects and way of life! Empire != 0.0 thus they should not discuss the matter, Simple as that. Yes playerbase brought the matter up, but in the End the CSM's are the ones that are going to Decide the fate, or sway the fate of the matter at hand.
Furb Killer USC Militia	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:15:00 - [6] Well i know for a fact that jade doesnt stick to high sec. And we all know that 0.0 player love to whine at high sec players, so why isnt it allowed the other way arround?
Haakelen Force d'action navale	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:16:00 - [7] Also, don't assume that people in lowsec want to be lumped in with 0.0. Capitals and sov mechanics are legitimate concerns some people have, you cannot simply dismiss it as 'hurr hurr empire carebears I am awesome'.
F90OEX F9X	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:16:00 - [8] The whole thing was a failure right from the start, I don't expect anything good ever to come out of it.
Avaricious Zee Wolf Stone	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:17:00 - [9] Originally by: EliteSlave Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 24/06/2008 16:05:25 First of all, because the chairman of the CSM is not in a 0.0 alliance, does not automatically mean that he is a carebear. About the calls for impeachment, that are 80% goonies and their alts and fanboys that could not get there candidate as a chairman of the CSM. Instead of living with the fact and move on, they now try to get their epic lulz by ruining it for everybody else. Third the topics are discussed by the CSM, because they were brought up to them by the playerbase. Democracy would be great, if we can ever make the damn thing work. Living in Empire = Carebear with all the Froth on top. CSM's that live in Empire SHOULD NOT DISCUSS THE FATE OF 0.0 Aspects and way of life! Empire != 0.0 thus they should not discuss the matter, Simple as that. Yes playerbase brought the matter up, but in the End the CSM's are the ones that are going to Decide the fate, or sway the fate of the matter at hand. Yes, the head of Star Fraction is a carebear. The logic is impeccable. 10/10 Non fui, fui, non sum, non desidero
DeadDuck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:19:00 - [10] Originally by: EliteSlave Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 24/06/2008 16:05:25 First of all, because the chairman of the CSM is not in a 0.0 alliance, does not automatically mean that he is a carebear. About the calls for impeachment, that are 80% goonies and their alts and fanboys that could not get there candidate as a chairman of the CSM. Instead of living with the fact and move on, they now try to get their epic lulz by ruining it for everybody else. Third the topics are discussed by the CSM, because they were brought up to them by the playerbase. Democracy would be great, if we can ever make the damn thing work. Living in Empire = Carebear with all the Froth on top. CSM's that live in Empire SHOULD NOT DISCUSS THE FATE OF 0.0 Aspects and way of life! Empire != 0.0 thus they should not discuss the matter, Simple as that. Yes playerbase brought the matter up, but in the End the CSM's are the ones that are going to Decide the fate, or sway the fate of the matter at hand. You really dont have a clue about what you are saying dont you ? "carebears" ?? ... ________________ God is my Wingman
Reem Fairchild Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:20:00 - [11] Originally by: EliteSlave "Titans and Cynojammers" Well, those do need fixing.
EliteSlave M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:20:00 - [12] Originally by: Haakelen Also, don't assume that people in lowsec want to be lumped in with 0.0. Capitals and sov mechanics are legitimate concerns some people have, you cannot simply dismiss it as 'hurr hurr empire carebears I am awesome'. reason i lumped lowsec pilots w/ 0.0 pilots is because lowsec pilots actually have interaction with capitals and such.
EliteSlave M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:22:00 - [13] Originally by: Avaricious Zee Originally by: EliteSlave Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 24/06/2008 16:05:25 First of all, because the chairman of the CSM is not in a 0.0 alliance, does not automatically mean that he is a carebear. About the calls for impeachment, that are 80% goonies and their alts and fanboys that could not get there candidate as a chairman of the CSM. Instead of living with the fact and move on, they now try to get their epic lulz by ruining it for everybody else. Third the topics are discussed by the CSM, because they were brought up to them by the playerbase. Democracy would be great, if we can ever make the damn thing work. Living in Empire = Carebear with all the Froth on top. CSM's that live in Empire SHOULD NOT DISCUSS THE FATE OF 0.0 Aspects and way of life! Empire != 0.0 thus they should not discuss the matter, Simple as that. Yes playerbase brought the matter up, but in the End the CSM's are the ones that are going to Decide the fate, or sway the fate of the matter at hand. Yes, the head of Star Fraction is a carebear. The logic is impeccable. 10/10 Where have I specifically targeted Jade Constantine?
EliteSlave M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:24:00 - [14] Originally by: DeadDuck Originally by: EliteSlave Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 24/06/2008 16:05:25 First of all, because the chairman of the CSM is not in a 0.0 alliance, does not automatically mean that he is a carebear. About the calls for impeachment, that are 80% goonies and their alts and fanboys that could not get there candidate as a chairman of the CSM. Instead of living with the fact and move on, they now try to get their epic lulz by ruining it for everybody else. Third the topics are discussed by the CSM, because they were brought up to them by the playerbase. Democracy would be great, if we can ever make the damn thing work. Living in Empire = Carebear with all the Froth on top. CSM's that live in Empire SHOULD NOT DISCUSS THE FATE OF 0.0 Aspects and way of life! Empire != 0.0 thus they should not discuss the matter, Simple as that. Yes playerbase brought the matter up, but in the End the CSM's are the ones that are going to Decide the fate, or sway the fate of the matter at hand. You really dont have a clue about what you are saying dont you ? "carebears" ?? ... I dont understand what you are getting at?
Avaricious Zee Wolf Stone	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:25:00 - [15] Originally by: EliteSlave Originally by: Avaricious Zee Originally by: EliteSlave Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 24/06/2008 16:05:25 First of all, because the chairman of the CSM is not in a 0.0 alliance, does not automatically mean that he is a carebear. About the calls for impeachment, that are 80% goonies and their alts and fanboys that could not get there candidate as a chairman of the CSM. Instead of living with the fact and move on, they now try to get their epic lulz by ruining it for everybody else. Third the topics are discussed by the CSM, because they were brought up to them by the playerbase. Democracy would be great, if we can ever make the damn thing work. Living in Empire = Carebear with all the Froth on top. CSM's that live in Empire SHOULD NOT DISCUSS THE FATE OF 0.0 Aspects and way of life! Empire != 0.0 thus they should not discuss the matter, Simple as that. Yes playerbase brought the matter up, but in the End the CSM's are the ones that are going to Decide the fate, or sway the fate of the matter at hand. Yes, the head of Star Fraction is a carebear. The logic is impeccable. 10/10 Where have I specifically targeted Jade Constantine? Star Fraction lives in Empire. You said all Empire dwellers are carebears. Therefore, you targeted all the empire dwelling CSM's. Good troll or stupid poster, . Non fui, fui, non sum, non desidero
EliteSlave M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Avaricious Zee Originally by: EliteSlave Originally by: Avaricious Zee Originally by: EliteSlave Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 24/06/2008 16:05:25 First of all, because the chairman of the CSM is not in a 0.0 alliance, does not automatically mean that he is a carebear. About the calls for impeachment, that are 80% goonies and their alts and fanboys that could not get there candidate as a chairman of the CSM. Instead of living with the fact and move on, they now try to get their epic lulz by ruining it for everybody else. Third the topics are discussed by the CSM, because they were brought up to them by the playerbase. Democracy would be great, if we can ever make the damn thing work. Living in Empire = Carebear with all the Froth on top. CSM's that live in Empire SHOULD NOT DISCUSS THE FATE OF 0.0 Aspects and way of life! Empire != 0.0 thus they should not discuss the matter, Simple as that. Yes playerbase brought the matter up, but in the End the CSM's are the ones that are going to Decide the fate, or sway the fate of the matter at hand. Yes, the head of Star Fraction is a carebear. The logic is impeccable. 10/10 Where have I specifically targeted Jade Constantine? Star Fraction lives in Empire. You said all Empire dwellers are carebears. Therefore, you targeted all the empire dwelling CSM's. Good troll or stupid poster, . Empire Dwellers are carebears simple as that, they dont want to run the risk of losing a ship thus they fall under the protection of concord = carebear. this is not a troll, this is a honest to god post that i think the CSM's is a failure, CCP Xhagen had a brilliant Idea on paper, but unfortunately this is not working out :(
Furb Killer USC Militia	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:31:00 - [17] Definately stupid poster.
Dingi223	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:37:00 - [18] 1. While I have similar concerns if the CSM can achieve change, from the initial feedback of the meeting with CCP a lot of good came out of it. Hopefully this is a positive sign. 2. The CSM is a medium through which the players communicate, i.e. players raise the issues, which the CSM formalize and present to CCP. As a result, the composition of the CSM should not impact the issues being discussed. 3. In your opening post, you call everyone on the CSM a carebear (except the goons). You then continue to say everyone living in Empire is a carebear. When someone clearly points out that the chair of the CSM is not a carebear, you ask where you said they were. Refer to two facts immediate after 3. 4. That leads the average reader to the conclusion that you are indeed stupid. o7
d'hofren Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:41:00 - [19] Edited by: d''hofren on 24/06/2008 16:41:44 Not quite true. I am an empire war guy nowdays. In the past I have been hugely involved in what you might term real 0.0 life. I have done pos take downs, I have thrown up offensive pos's. I have organized cyno chains. I have been part of campaigns to eradicate alliances, I have been in eradicated alliances. I have been in big name corps, I have been a director of not entirely unknown corps. Many of my old friends got burnt out on the whole POS side of things. That's why you will see a lot of ex 0.0 movers and shakers back in empire nowdays, empire war is almost as much fun as eve was pre sov, faction warfare gives people the big gang action without the alarm cloak pos fueling / pos take downs...
EliteSlave M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:41:00 - [20] Originally by: Dingi223 1. While I have similar concerns if the CSM can achieve change, from the initial feedback of the meeting with CCP a lot of good came out of it. Hopefully this is a positive sign. 2. The CSM is a medium through which the players communicate, i.e. players raise the issues, which the CSM formalize and present to CCP. As a result, the composition of the CSM should not impact the issues being discussed. 3. In your opening post, you call everyone on the CSM a carebear (except the goons). You then continue to say everyone living in Empire is a carebear. When someone clearly points out that the chair of the CSM is not a carebear, you ask where you said they were. Refer to two facts immediate after 3. 4. That leads the average reader to the conclusion that you are indeed stupid. o7 No, I actually never Implicated the CHAIR. Not 1 time did i ever Implicate Jade.. I have respect for Jade and SF, what I am talking about is the actual carebears crim de le crim.
EliteSlave M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:47:00 - [21] Originally by: d'hofren Edited by: d''hofren on 24/06/2008 16:41:44 Not quite true. I am an empire war guy nowdays. In the past I have been hugely involved in what you might term real 0.0 life. I have done pos take downs, I have thrown up offensive pos's. I have organized cyno chains. I have been part of campaigns to eradicate alliances, I have been in eradicated alliances. I have been in big name corps, I have been a director of not entirely unknown corps. Many of my old friends got burnt out on the whole POS side of things. That's why you will see a lot of ex 0.0 movers and shakers back in empire nowdays, empire war is almost as much fun as eve was pre sov, faction warfare gives people the big gang action without the alarm cloak pos fueling / pos take downs... I completely understand that D'hofren, I get burned out at pos warfare aswell, what my beef is with the CSM delegation is the fact that there are CSM's that are discussing this that have had 0 interaction with the problems at hand and thus cannot properly understand the problem at hand and make blindsighted fix's to the mechanic.
Zinras Order of draugr	Posted - 2008.06.24 16:55:00 - [22] ITT, people think CSM has any kind of power and that it is absolutely impossible for the people without 0.0 experience to let the 0.0 people do the talking on those issues. Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal CCP's best friend
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:01:00 - [23] I dont see the point of the CSM. If you trust CCP, play the game. If you dont, quit. There will never be a outside body that knows what CCP does or doesnt do. --- Its dead, Jim.
EnslaverOfMinmatar Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:02:00 - [24] Just hire mercs to kill all CSM members
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:07:00 - [25] This post lacks logic. In fact, I think this post is completely wrong on all accounts. Suffice to say, I think you should hold judgement till the minutes for the Iceland meetings are out. Also, you can't group people. I'm most known as a carebear, for instance, but that couldn't be further from the truth. So wait till the minutes are out. I think it could change the general view on how CSM operates and have influence. Trust me, it's there.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:08:00 - [26] Funny thing is CSM was an epic success and those nine players had a hellova of experience in all aspects of the game in my assessment. We discussed a great range of issues and got a lot high quality debate from the CCP team including their leader-developers and senior executive group. Minutes are being produced to show the detailed outcomes but lets just say a lot of people are going to be pretty damn surprised at how influential this thing is and how seriously CCP is taking it. CSM is here to stay and I predict the winter elections are going to be pretty massive. Sure this time round only GS and CVA took the thing seriously from the 0.0 alliances, thats not going to happen again I assure you. But luckily for Eve and the player base these nine were great. Me=roving pvp/combat dynamism/RP Hardin=0.0 alliance/organization/RP Ank=Empire/Economy/Missions/War/Consequence Darius=0.0 alliance/large scale organization/sov Bane=0.0 alliance/sov/pos Dierdra=empire/new players/warfare Serenity=0.0 alliance/sov/economy/finance LaVista=small scale pvp/economics/investment/finance Inanna=industry/agents/UI/RP Now come on really. Thats a pretty damn good group. We had a decent cross section of empire/0.0/alliance/corp/missioning focus and pretty much everyone had the knowledge to comment intelligently on all issues. Fingers crossed the next CSM does as well. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:09:00 - [27] Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar Just hire mercs to kill all CSM members Heh, I think I can speak for the entire council when I say: "Bring it" CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Jade Constantine Me=roving pvp/combat dynamism/RP Hardin=0.0 alliance/organization/RP Ank=Empire/Economy/Missions/War/Consequence Darius=0.0 alliance/large scale organization/sov Bane=0.0 alliance/sov/pos Dierdra=empire/new players/warfare Serenity=0.0 alliance/sov/economy/finance LaVista=small scale pvp/economics/investment/finance Inanna=industry/agents/UI/RP Someone WILL whine about the lack of piracy being listed. But quite frankly it's also presented, despite popular belief. Just a shame no piracy issues were raised.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:18:00 - [29] Originally by: LaVista Vista Someone WILL whine about the lack of piracy being listed. But quite frankly it's also presented, despite popular belief. Just a shame no piracy issues were raised. Lol I was trying not to out people's pirate alts you know CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
An Anarchyyt Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:18:00 - [30] I second the hire mercs. Goonswarm certainly needs more wardecs where I will never see them beyond the mailbox. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Alexa Komnenos Byzantine Holding Corporation	Posted - 2008.06.24 17:39:00 - [31] The only thing that surprises me is that anyone is surprised the CSM became a useless Titanic failure. Like all previous attempts at player representation (Star Wars Galaxies "senate") it has become nothing but a collective "I'm more important than you" circle jerk in which the only people who thinks the CSM means anything at all are the members of it. I refuse to take it seriously at all until I see something meaningful come of it. For example, what is the #1 problem with EVE when you ask most people? The answer: LAG. NOTHING else really matters if the servers themselves are unable to keep up with the growth of the game and the size of conflicts. Does it freaking matter how POS warfare works, or faction warfare, or unnerfing the Raptor, etc IF THE DAMN GAME IS UNPLAYABLE?! So far complete silence from the Devs, nothing from the CSM except pages of transcripts of petty squabbling about who's e-peen is larger which I got tired of reading after the second page about this important game breaking issue. How about we end this charade of "democracy" in EVE, hire a professional PR person (sorry, community relations has been atrociously bad since Kieron left/was pushed out) and maybe a game developer or two? CCP isn't going to change one damn thing that they want to do based on votes by the CSM (assuming they have some time left over after e-peen size debates to tackle anything else) , and to anyone who thinks they will ever do so, I have some beach property in Nevada I want to sell you :) The CSM is at best a distraction. At worst it's sucking time and resources away from what really needs to be done.
Avaricious Zee Wolf Stone	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:05:00 - [32] Originally by: Alexa Komnenos The only thing that surprises me is that anyone is surprised the CSM became a useless Titanic failure. Like all previous attempts at player representation (Star Wars Galaxies "senate") it has become nothing but a collective "I'm more important than you" circle jerk in which the only people who thinks the CSM means anything at all are the members of it. I refuse to take it seriously at all until I see something meaningful come of it. For example, what is the #1 problem with EVE when you ask most people? The answer: LAG. NOTHING else really matters if the servers themselves are unable to keep up with the growth of the game and the size of conflicts. Does it freaking matter how POS warfare works, or faction warfare, or unnerfing the Raptor, etc IF THE DAMN GAME IS UNPLAYABLE?! So far complete silence from the Devs, nothing from the CSM except pages of transcripts of petty squabbling about who's e-peen is larger which I got tired of reading after the second page about this important game breaking issue. How about we end this charade of "democracy" in EVE, hire a professional PR person (sorry, community relations has been atrociously bad since Kieron left/was pushed out) and maybe a game developer or two? CCP isn't going to change one damn thing that they want to do based on votes by the CSM (assuming they have some time left over after e-peen size debates to tackle anything else) , and to anyone who thinks they will ever do so, I have some beach property in Nevada I want to sell you :) The CSM is at best a distraction. At worst it's sucking time and resources away from what really needs to be done. /pats Alexa on the head There, there. Non fui, fui, non sum, non desidero
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:17:00 - [33] Originally by: Alexa Komnenos The answer: LAG. NOTHING else really matters if the servers themselves are unable to keep up with the growth of the game and the size of conflicts. See this is where you part company with reality. LAG is horrible sure, but you don't solve it by waving a magic wand and inventing miraculous internet connections 20x better than the ones we have coupled with uber servers of doom that are so powerful database efficiency doesn't come into the equation. Problem of lag in Eve comes down to game mechanics that concentrate too many players all doing the same thing in the same place. Solution to lag is spreading those players out by providing distributed objectives that force fleets to break up and do different things at the same time to be effective in the strategic wargame of eve. This are pretty simple concepts and things that the CSM and CCP agreed on. As for the rest of your post I'll simply say you are very wrong. And the months ahead will show you just how wrong you truly are. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Zaran Darkstar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.06.24 18:26:00 - [34] Originally by: EliteSlave Ok, I have been reading the CSM forums for the past few days, and I have come to the conclusion that they are worthless and not going to help the Game in anyway, Reason being is that, 80% of the the CSM's are carebears (Besides the Goons) that are discussing topics such as "Capital-Online" or "Titans and Cynojammers" and how to circumvent it. I am calling for impeachment of the current Carebear CSM's as they have no experience w/the topics of 0.0 being discussed,Also, as we have seen nothing to date has changed nor will it, Or if this will not happen that the CSM delegation be split up into 2 divisions consisting of 0.0 / low sec only pilots, and the other division being that of the Empire Carebears. Arrogance of ~some~ 0.0 dwellers = TOTAL FAIL
Arkanjuca R.U.S.T.	Posted - 2008.06.24 19:04:00 - [35] Not supporting CSM is the coward way out. Let them work and them you can judge, its like hiring a financist and giving him one week to put the company on the tracks. Give'em time to work, thats all. -- AF should be like HACs
Thorradin State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.24 21:58:00 - [36] Edited by: Thorradin on 24/06/2008 22:01:38 Originally by: EliteSlave Living in Empire = Carebear with all the Froth on top. CSM's that live in Empire SHOULD NOT DISCUSS THE FATE OF 0.0 Aspects and way of life! Empire != 0.0 thus they should not discuss the matter, Simple as that. Yes playerbase brought the matter up, but in the End the CSM's are the ones that are going to Decide the fate, or sway the fate of the matter at hand. Jade Constantwalloftext is a lot of things, but a 0.0 carebear is not one of them. Pretty sure he was the biggest ego in the GNW long ago. Also, as 0.0 people love to poke at Empire topics, simply because they have alts for making isk, or the markets, the empire CSM have every right to talk about 0.0 and if you are scared of the topics that will come up, quite *****ing and post some 0.0 issues for them to discuss with CCP.
Thorradin State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.06.24 22:08:00 - [37] Originally by: Alexa Komnenos How about we end this charade of "democracy" in EVE, hire a professional PR person (sorry, community relations has been atrociously bad since Kieron left/was pushed out) and maybe a game developer or two? CCP isn't going to change one damn thing that they want to do based on votes by the CSM (assuming they have some time left over after e-peen size debates to tackle anything else) , and to anyone who thinks they will ever do so, I have some beach property in Nevada I want to sell you :) Eh, I think you people are starting to make the myth into the man. I've seen more interaction from devs than I usually saw from kieron when you consider his job was communicating with us, and Wrangler seems just fine to me. Oh, and if you have an issue for theCSM that can fix LAG, a problem that CCP isn't able to 'fix' with cutting edge technology and programming, without breaking up the server or something dumb like that, then I'd love to hear it.
Hardin	Posted - 2008.06.24 22:26:00 - [38] Initial feedback from CSM Iceland meeting here: http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=17707 People can make up their own minds of how it went when the full minutes come out... ----- Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services Advert
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.06.25 01:03:00 - [39] Originally by: Dingi223 2. The CSM is a medium through which the players communicate, i.e. players raise the issues, which the CSM formalize and present to CCP. As a result, the composition of the CSM should not impact the issues being discussed. No, it isn't. They're pushing topics where 10 people support them just because CSM members like it, even when support was very mixed. Just because they like it. That's not representing the players, that's representing themselves. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.06.25 02:20:00 - [40] Originally by: Cpt Branko Like Jade and docking aggression timers (which is a utterly horrible move; with the DPS/tank figures as they are, all sub-BS ships are practically guaranteed to die to bait/blob tactics, and BS are fairly likely too if the timer is extended too much) Well pretty much the whole CSM and every dev in the room ended up agreeing that if you fire a weapon at another player in Eve its pretty lame to be able to dock out of combat 45 seconds later. And its doubly lame if you are doing it in a capital ship that cannot possibly have its tank broken in that time span. Dock/undock/dock games round stations are hideous gameplay and most pvpers know and appreciate this. If you are worried about being baited then scout and take care about beginning engagements - don't feel that the safety blanket of redock after aggression is something you should automatically have in all circumstances. CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Sunwillow Auryn	Posted - 2008.06.25 14:21:00 - [41] Originally by: EliteSlave Living in Empire = Carebear with all the Froth on top. While we are doing sweeping statements: "Living in 0.0 = gankers who only kill people who have nil chance of beating them in combat." Now, I know that my statement CLEARLY ISN'T TRUE. Sweeping statements never are. Same goes the other way ya know - not everyone who lives in Empire is a carebear. I actually respect the way in which you want to play the game, I just don't wish to be a part of it.
Iron Overlord Gateway Industries House of Mercury	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:56:00 - [42] Originally by: Hardin People can make up their own minds of how it went when the full minutes come out... Is the release of the minutes in CCP's hands, or with you guys?
Tatsue Nuko Stimulus	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:16:00 - [43] Originally by: Thorradin Jade Constantwalloftext is a lot of things, but a 0.0 carebear is not one of them. Pretty sure he was the biggest ego in the GNW long ago. Those were the days. :D Though on biggest ego, I dunno, there were a LOT of egos involved there.
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.06.26 16:02:00 - [44] Originally by: Tatsue Nuko Originally by: Thorradin Jade Constantwalloftext is a lot of things, but a 0.0 carebear is not one of them. Pretty sure he was the biggest ego in the GNW long ago. Those were the days. :D Though on biggest ego, I dunno, there were a LOT of egos involved there. You're not wrong - hell, SirMolle, DBPreacher, Blacklight, Halseth Durn, Robeyone, the list goes on - that stuff involved a lot of egos CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Kirgan Caldari Pyrognome	Posted - 2008.06.28 02:31:00 - [45] The CSM is a Fail and was even before the voting. Candidates were pushing their own agendas from the beginning and havenÆt waivered from those positions, by only supporting player raised topics that align with their own views. CCP has made a career of denying and clouding issues rather than address them; the CSM is just a logical extension of that poor game management. It would be a nice surprise if CCP canned the useless CSM and hired professionals to actually do the job. No offense to the people that comprise the CSM as I donÆt know any of you, my disdain is for the process and the procedures, not the players.
Gaelenus Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.06.29 03:22:00 - [46] setting aside wether the CMS is a failure or not, i'd rather wait ta little longer before dismissing it completley i would like to point out that seeing as 80% of the eve population consists of empire dwelling carebears doesnt it make sense therfore that 80% of an elected democratic body representing the playerbase is carebear? I've never understood why 0.0 pllyares are so full of themseleves that they see themselves as superior and more important than the overwhealming majority of non 0.0 players.
Halycon Gamma Caldari Felicis Umbra	Posted - 2008.06.29 03:37:00 - [47] Originally by: Gaelenus setting aside wether the CMS is a failure or not, i'd rather wait ta little longer before dismissing it completley i would like to point out that seeing as 80% of the eve population consists of empire dwelling carebears doesnt it make sense therfore that 80% of an elected democratic body representing the playerbase is carebear? I've never understood why 0.0 pllyares are so full of themseleves that they see themselves as superior and more important than the overwhealming majority of non 0.0 players. Because 0.0 is filled with narcissistic sycophants, with a side order of sociopathy. Not all of them are bad, some of them are regular Joes, and fun to talk to. But only people with too much free time, and a yin for having their opinion vilified.. no matter how right-minded they think it is.. post on forums. Of which we're all part of that last group.
Asuri Kinnes Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.06.29 11:45:00 - [48] Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 29/06/2008 11:45:41 Originally by: Alexa Komnenos The only thing that surprises me is that anyone is surprised the CSM became a useless Titanic failure. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/28/arts/television/28eve.html?_r=1& scp=1&sq=eve+online&st=nyt&oref=slogin Article in the New York Times. Wow, what a failure... AK
Asuri Kinnes Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.06.29 11:49:00 - [49] Originally by: Cpt Branko No, it isn't. They're pushing topics where 10 people support them just because CSM members like it, even when support was very mixed. Just because they like it. That's not representing the players, that's representing themselves. Like Jade and docking aggression timers (which is a utterly horrible move; with the DPS/tank figures as they are, all sub-BS ships are practically guaranteed to die to bait/blob tactics, and BS are fairly likely too if the timer is extended too much) To moderate the meetings, the company hired Agust H. Ingthorsson, director of the research liaison office at the University of Iceland and a professional moderator with experience in the halls of European power in Brussels. He seemed to come away impressed. ôI have to tell you that I have been involved in E.U. meetings where the participants were not as prepared and professional as what weÆve seen here,ö he said, referring to the European Union. ôThese players have approached this meeting with what seems like real understanding of their roles. They are not just fighting for their particular interests but seem to be very socially responsible in wanting to represent all the players of Eve. Perhaps some real-world politicians could learn from them.ö

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