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boogaluewatts1
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:36:00 -
[1]
At 19:19 monday the 24th Jita market traders lost a fierce battle against the lag bomb. After changing a few market orders and adding some new ones. Following the golden rule of watching the percentages to make sure no mistakes were made. A market order was changed for 45 million isk for a low-grade crystal delta. The change was to increase the price by 1 isk to beat competition. Everything looked fine hit accept. changed a few more then grabbed a snack and watched a little tv. By the time I came back i checked a few sales then noticed.... I'm missing 45 billion isk. After quickly looking around I have noticed the market order actually was set at 45 billion although no such change was made. it was quickly gobbled up by a new character most likely and alt, by the name of Esperanda. Who became 45 billion isk richer in a matter of 30 seconds.
For anyone trading on the Jita market. Here is a suggestion. Transfer any additional isk to an alt character on your account. Never trade with that amount of isk in Jita. It is a problem waiting to happen. I should have noticed all the people complaining of lag and just waited till later to play.
Until next time Lag bomb 
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Havohej
The Defias Brotherhood
DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:37:00 -
[2]
[Drake, lol pwn drake]
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 200
Target Painter II
Target Painter II
Gistum B-Type 10MN MicroWarpdrive
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I
Salvager I
Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Warrior II x5
 Originally by: CCP Explorer
You can still steal their stuff.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:42:00 -
[3]
petiton it.
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Shakuul
Infinitus Sapientia
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:42:00 -
[4]
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Napro
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:42:00 -
[5]
Can i have the rest of your stuff?
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mentalmonkey
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:44:00 -
[6]
dude, all the ISK I have ever had couldn't pay for the transaction tax on that thing. Tough break but I've lost alot of ISK in a similar way.
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Cellmen
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:46:00 -
[7]
They don't replace anything lost by lag.
and no you can not have the rest of my stuff :)
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:47:00 -
[8]
Your first mistake was being in Jita.
Your second mistake was placing market orders in Jita.
Dont go to Jita, think of all the poor Hampsters on their little wheels! You kill a hampster everytime you place a market order in jita!
--------------------------------
To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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boogaluewatts1
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:51:00 -
[9]
Why does it seem like the best games always have to be broken?
command & Conquer generals serious errors. And eves lag. I couldn't even imagine the guys in battle where the special effects actually kick in.
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Matalino
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:52:00 -
[10]
You are a trader who had 45 billion in your wallet and you weren't using your trade skills to manage your orders from any of the lag free systems else where in The Forge. Sucks to be you, but maybe next time you will put those fancy trade skills to use. 
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Roid Hunter
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Matalino
You are a trader who had 45 billion in your wallet and you weren't using your trade skills to manage your orders from any of the lag free systems else where in The Forge. Sucks to be you, but maybe next time you will put those fancy trade skills to use.
^^ This...
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Cellmen
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:55:00 -
[12]
Yep that was the one rule of thumb I didn't follow. I was picking up a new toy and figured what would changing a few orders hurt. Obviously a lot.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:56:00 -
[13]
Now I see why players hang around Jita, checking the market. I must be there for the next Sunday lag bomb. 
---
Its dead, Jim.
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.06.24 18:58:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Roid Hunter
Originally by: Matalino
You are a trader who had 45 billion in your wallet and you weren't using your trade skills to manage your orders from any of the lag free systems else where in The Forge. Sucks to be you, but maybe next time you will put those fancy trade skills to use.
^^ This...
again for clarification:
you do not have to be in Jita to play the market in Jita.
Originally by: Meridius Dex
I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
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Elirel
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:00:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Elirel on 24/06/2008 19:02:59
Edited by: Elirel on 24/06/2008 19:00:38
It's not a Jita problem. If you trade a lot it's just a matter of time when you put a wrong digit and lose a lot if not all of your money. I paid around 400 million for that lesson and consider it cheap. The next thing i did... i transfered all my isk not used immediately in trade to my alt.
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Cellmen
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:01:00 -
[16]
Adding an extra 0 ok but three no. And like i said the percentages didn't changing showing i was about to pay a lot more then its value. It was clearly a Jita lag problem.
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Matthew Cooper
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:03:00 -
[17]
Wallet divisions for individuals would be nice.
Originally by: Tarminic
Stop posting with your alt Kieron. 
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Cellmen
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:08:00 -
[18]
That sounds like a good idea. I would really like to see a solution before this happens to someone else. Although it happens all the time. It just really sucks when it happens in this large of a scale...
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:08:00 -
[19]
can i have esperandas stuff
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Cellmen
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:09:00 -
[20]
ask her
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Augeas
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:10:00 -
[21]
Ouch.
It only cost me 1.3 billion to learn the "keep ISKies on alt" lesson. 
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:10:00 -
[22]
How on earth can this be a lag problem?
Either you messed up and clicked OK when the wrong number was displayed (due to interface lagging), or you didnt mess up, and clicked ok when the right number was displayed.
First case is unresponsive, poor GUI design, second case is a major, gamebreaking bug.
You say that you double-checked the amount. If you are sure of this, petition. The poor GUI design is already pretty unacceptable, but when the game starts to randomly add zeroes to numbers "due to lag", its no longer tolerable.
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Cellmen
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:14:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Cellmen on 24/06/2008 19:14:52
I can not explain what has happened I can only explain what i saw. I saw the correct number with green percentages indicating that it was not above price. Press accepted and moved on to the next order just like any other time.
I don't believe in the game adding zeros myself. Sounds a little like ghost hunting.
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Augeas
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:28:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Either you messed up and clicked OK when the wrong number was displayed (due to interface lagging)
It was probably this. I've changed orders in Jita, and lag has caused a green number to come up, when I know full well that I've pressed more digits than that. Then, a few seconds later, it updates, showing the real red price, a million % over market average. Sometimes it updates almost immediately, other times it takes longer... even 3-5 seconds lag might be enough to convince someone that no update is coming.
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Gallentia Walmart
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:29:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Roid Hunter
Originally by: Matalino
You are a trader who had 45 billion in your wallet and you weren't using your trade skills to manage your orders from any of the lag free systems else where in The Forge. Sucks to be you, but maybe next time you will put those fancy trade skills to use.
^^ This...
God yeah this.
And the put your spare isk on an alt is a total no-brainer.
You lost that isk to Darwin, not lag.
0.0? U mean the escrows or the place? |
Andrue
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:37:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Andrue on 24/06/2008 19:38:54
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
again for clarification:
you do not have to be in Jita to play the market in Jita.
Very true. I bought and sold several Nighthawks in Jita without ever going near there. I couldn't even fly them at the time, let alone build them. That was fun. Buy at 160 to 180, sell at 200 to 240 as I remember. I made nearly half a billion off that in a month.
Slightly less good was the time a year before that when I didn't count the zeros and put 30 Megabeam Is on the market for 130mil each. That cost my corp a lot in tax and I didn't get one taker
--
(Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Mazzarins Demise
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:42:00 -
[27]
That's rough, maybe the guy will feel guilty and give some of it back? That's what i would do anyway, but that's just me.
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iudex
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:50:00 -
[28]
Wow that must have been a bad day, losing 45 bil, that's lots of isk.
But still that might not have been the worst part of the story.
If you have bad luck you might find yourself with -45 bil in your account in near future, because a GM regards that transaction as a cover-up for a large isk sale.
_________________________________________
Faction Standings: Serpentis +7.50 // Angel Cartel +7.17 // Minmatar Republic -8.49 // Gallente Federation -9.53
Faction Warfare Rank: Colonel
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Doc Fury
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:52:00 -
[29]
The market interface is pants, especially if you are modifying a price that contains a decimal. CCP's wonderful market interface will often take a price that starts as this:
100.95
And as soon as you click inside the dialog box to make your price modification it automatically changes by itself to become:
100.9599
if you click OK to accept or make a change without noticing the extra digits and decimal point change, this potentially becomes:
1009599
Only if you are paying very close attention, will you notice CCPs interface PVE-ing with you, and you can easily remove the invalid digits and fix the decimal point. Add lag to this problem however, and I can only imagine you would not get the chance to see any changes being made for you by the wonky interface.
I and several others have bug reported this as far back as 2 years ago, with no fix or improvement occurring since. The transaction fees and etc. associated are isk sinks, so CCP probably just doesn't care. It also does not happen every time, but I can reproduce this bug many times an hour when I am altering a lot of buy/sell orders.
It's so safe to play along, little soldiers in a row
Falling in and out of love, with something sweet to throw away.
I want something good to DIE for...to make it beautiful to live. |
Armoured C
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:56:00 -
[30]
45 bill
that only loose change to me 
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Emily Spankratchet
Pragmatics
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:56:00 -
[31]
As mentioned above by a couple of people...
Duh. I'm not a trader, and even I know about the trade skills. Why margin trade in the system when you can do it from a nice distance?
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Xaen
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.06.24 19:59:00 -
[32]
The best part is, the user interface could have easily saved your ass. But it didn't.
When you're modifying a market order, it's just a text box with a string of numbers. No formatting to make it obvious at a glance the scale of the number. Most people have the same problem too. Sure you probably get it right 99.99% of the time as I do, but this poor guy lost 45 billion for screwing it up ONCE.
Now here's where CCP could truly shine, but instead do it horribly.
Instead of that simple text box it could display a couple of formatted versions of the number you're entering in a huge red/green letters.
The first version being like this: 45,000,000,000.00
Where the delimiters are the localized ones.
The second being the classic human readable style like ls -h of the *nix world. Like this: 45.0 BN.
Further, you could customize it to display one, the other, or both.
And that's just one possiblity of the UI working for you that most people can't imagine, let alone code. Which is why you should show your support in the UI thread in my sig.
-
Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Viqtoria
Groping Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:00:00 -
[33]
something ain't right here.
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Shakuul
Infinitus Sapientia
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:05:00 -
[34]
Isn't there a trick to get the window to display commas?
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:08:00 -
[35]
Kindy funny really seeing as its all the people ****ing about with buy/sell orders 1 isk at a time that probably causes the lag.
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Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:14:00 -
[36]
Too bad. Should've double checked. Also, I have now officially joined with the group of people lol'ing at you trading from jita if you consider yourself a trader.
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Aaron Mirrorsaver
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:22:00 -
[37]
i noticed yesterday in low sec, the only time i checked the market was for some liquid ozone, and it was selling on all sell orders for 280k +
so yeh 450 units of it cost 100m +
came back into system with an alt, and all the prices were back to normal. the extra 3 000 were gone. so where before it was 283000 sell order, it was now like 283, the point is, 3 extra 0's were on the first time, and the second time, same system same item, it was back to normal.
C.E.O.
Go Hard, or go Home.
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Metro Trade
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:23:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Metro Trade on 24/06/2008 20:25:05
Hell No!!!
Originally by: BoB Pilot
Look a GOON, he run to NOL (lol)
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Tenuo
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:23:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Doddy
Kindy funny really seeing as its all the people ****ing about with buy/sell orders 1 isk at a time that probably causes the lag.
You loose all the revenue if you keep underbidding by 5-50k isk ;)
_______________________________________________________________________________
EVE Online: The Hand-holding Age
The truth about balance is that it doesn't exist. |
Xanaii
|
Posted - 2008.06.24 20:33:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Xanaii on 24/06/2008 20:33:36
Originally by: Armoured C
45 bill
that only loose change to me
Prove it by sending me... 1 BILL-. No, hang on a minute... 1 MILLION ISK!
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Ereesh
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Posted - 2008.06.24 20:34:00 -
[41]
Same thing happened to me, changed a buy order for 2000 Fermonics from 8400 ISK to 84000 ISK. First they will tell you there is no lag in Jita and besides the warning window should have popped up. Then they say well yeah there is lag but they will never under any circumstances reverse a transaction between two players. When you tell them that you know they do it all the time with players using Jita lag to change amounts in the trade window, they will tell well yeah ok but thatĘs not the same thing. I used to have a full head of hair.
The best thing to do if it is really laggy is only have the minimum in you account to complete the transaction.
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Napro
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.06.25 02:28:00 -
[42]
Originally by: iudex
Wow that must have been a bad day, losing 45 bil, that's lots of isk.
But still that might not have been the worst part of the story.
If you have bad luck you might find yourself with -45 bil in your account in near future, because a GM regards that transaction as a cover-up for a large isk sale.
Interesting point.......who's to say this isn't some coverup for an ISK sale 
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Lochmar Fiendhiem
Wyverns of Dionysus
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.06.25 03:08:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Lochmar Fiendhiem on 25/06/2008 03:08:29
I'm only going to say this 14 dozen more times....
RENS.
Heimatar Region.
Not Jita.
Don't go to Ravenholme.
EDIT: The cake isn't a lie, you just have to not be terrible.
Originally by: Halkin
bob is dead, goons are great, cheese is cheesy, there we go no need for any more threads
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fightnkill
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.06.25 03:29:00 -
[44]
Edited by: fightnkill on 25/06/2008 03:35:10
one less competition?
Btw, did u really get all of that 45bill from massive trading?
If so, I get the feeling u used some sort of automated bot to automatically update ur orders 23/7...
Im a trader as well, and there are some players who are mysteriously able to update their orders 23/7, I'm assuming they're using a bot to automatically update the prices for them.
But CCP I think has implanted some sort of anti-bot mechanism to basically punish anyone who uses them, which MAY be the reason why u lost 45bill.
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.06.25 07:32:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Armoured C
45 bill
that only loose change to me
I'm so impressed.
Originally by: Rachel Vend
... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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Clocky
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Posted - 2008.06.25 08:52:00 -
[46]
Well going to Jita on a sunday is a little silly. Avoid at all costs.
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Caligulus
Legion of Lost Souls
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.06.25 09:07:00 -
[47]
You have my sympathies. When I "have" to deal with Jita I modify orders from outside of jita with those fancy market skills. Only when I physically need to transport goods out of Jita do I ever bother going there.
Modifying market orders outside of Jita = no market lag.
-------------------------------------------------
**** You're out of your mind!
**** Well that's between me and my mind. |
HighwayMan DhD
Highwaymen
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 09:19:00 -
[48]
DAMNIT!!! I'm selling a HG Delta - you missed me by one!! damnit!!
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Steve Celeste
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Posted - 2008.06.25 09:52:00 -
[49]
I heard you can press the tab key after entering the amount, which gives you the decimals.
But i guess a savvy market trader like the OP must know that already....
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Tippia
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.06.25 10:04:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Clocky
Well going to Jita on a sunday is a little silly. Avoid at all costs.
The wierd thing was that I went through Jita 8 times this Sunday, with next to no lag… They must have broken something over at the server farm.
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AltBier
Freelance Unincorporated
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Posted - 2008.06.25 11:23:00 -
[51]
Originally by: boogaluewatts1
monday the 24th
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Veritech knight
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Posted - 2008.06.25 11:28:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Shakuul
Isn't there a trick to get the window to display commas?
hit tab after entering the number
I'm not worried about the OP, obviously he knows how to make isk :)
vk |
Tuberider
Pothouse Cartel
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:30:00 -
[53]
No sympathy here you market ***** 
play the market with such figures sooner or later you'll lose
caught buy one of your own type
double checking ftw
Three. Three. And we'd better not risk another frontal assault. That rabbit's dynamite |
deadmeet
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 11:52:00 -
[54]
So....
leave jita and come fighting in 0.0 :D
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woddel
CH Manufacturing and Trading
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Posted - 2008.06.25 11:58:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Armoured C
45 bill
that only loose change to me
oh, when it's that little to you, give me one to prove your statement... :)
cheerios and smiles, woddel
---
creator and maintainer of eve-commander
complete web based character information tool. |
woddel
CH Manufacturing and Trading
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:01:00 -
[56]
Originally by: fightnkill
Edited by: fightnkill on 25/06/2008 03:35:10
one less competition?
Btw, did u really get all of that 45bill from massive trading?
If so, I get the feeling u used some sort of automated bot to automatically update ur orders 23/7...
Im a trader as well, and there are some players who are mysteriously able to update their orders 23/7, I'm assuming they're using a bot to automatically update the prices for them.
But CCP I think has implanted some sort of anti-bot mechanism to basically punish anyone who uses them, which MAY be the reason why u lost 45bill.
i do some trading too and i've never found a bot yet that is able to manipulate market orders (google etc). but i also wonder how quickly some of these .01 isk under- or overbets are placed. especially these .01 isk bets, i would just hate to always have to enter .01 or .99 for every market order i change... :)
---
creator and maintainer of eve-commander
complete web based character information tool. |
AltBier
Freelance Unincorporated
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 12:24:00 -
[57]
Hmm ... how CAN this be due to lag?
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fuze
InfoMorph Services Ltd
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Posted - 2008.06.25 12:46:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Armoured C
45 bill
that only loose change to me
Buddy, can you spare me some change? |
Zattam
S2S
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 13:06:00 -
[59]
Quote:
...it was quickly gobbled up by a new character most likely and alt, by the name of Esperanda. Who became 45 billion isk richer in a matter of 30 seconds.
I think CCP should investigate you and this lucky "new character" and see exactly where the isk came from in the first place and where Esperanda laundered it to.
You don't lose 45b isk to lag and then come on the forum with some "cover story".
Has as been pointed out by others in this thread, your story doesn't make sense - especially for a seasoned trader who's apparantly ammased enough isk that a 45b loss doesn't seem to bother him at all (at least thats the impression I get from your original post).
If it is a legitimate loss and you're on the level, then petition it. I'm sure CCP will make an exception for such a large loss due to "lag".
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boogaluewatts1
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 18:16:00 -
[60]
no they wont
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Coercia
Draupnir Tribe
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 18:34:00 -
[61]
All CCP need to do is split the price box into 2 text boxes seperated by a " . ". The left one represents the numbers on the left of the dot (ie. whole isks) and the right box represents numbers on the right of the dot (ie. pennies).
et voila, this never ever ever happens ever again.
i rise with red eyes |
ezraniel
An Eye For An Eye
Digital Renegades
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 19:01:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Xaen
Instead of that simple text box it could display a couple of formatted versions of the number you're entering in a huge red/green letters.
The first version being like this: 45,000,000,000.00
Where the delimiters are the localized ones.
And my advice to CCP would be:
"Masked Textfields are your friend on this one"
|
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 19:22:00 -
[63]
Originally by: boogaluewatts1
At 19:19 monday the 24th Jita market traders lost a fierce battle against the lag bomb. After changing a few market orders and adding some new ones. Following the golden rule of watching the percentages to make sure no mistakes were made. A market order was changed for 45 million isk for a low-grade crystal delta. The change was to increase the price by 1 isk to beat competition. Everything looked fine hit accept. changed a few more then grabbed a snack and watched a little tv. By the time I came back i checked a few sales then noticed.... I'm missing 45 billion isk. After quickly looking around I have noticed the market order actually was set at 45 billion although no such change was made. it was quickly gobbled up by a new character most likely and alt, by the name of Esperanda. Who became 45 billion isk richer in a matter of 30 seconds.
For anyone trading on the Jita market. Here is a suggestion. Transfer any additional isk to an alt character on your account. Never trade with that amount of isk in Jita. It is a problem waiting to happen. I should have noticed all the people complaining of lag and just waited till later to play.
Until next time Lag bomb
You're pretty damn calm about losing 45 billion isk. As such, do you mind sending me some isk. A couple billion ought to do me fine for the next 3 or 4 months.
Thanks.
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Jawas
|
Posted - 2008.06.25 20:28:00 -
[64]
I had a loan from the corp and paid half back. The next day, I sold some stuff and went to pay back the remaining 35 million. I had 44 million in my wallet after the sale but it would only allow me to transfer a little over 7 million to the corp wallet. When I hovered over the neocom wallet button, it was still showing 7 million that I had remaining in my wallet beefore I sold the stuff, when I opened the wallet, it showed a smudge over 44 million.
Note that this WASN'T in jita, it was a little used system about 20 or so jumps away from Jita where I normally run my missions.
All I can make of this is that some transactions use the amount from the actual wallet but others use the amount updated to the neocom 'hover' display. Since the neocom display update is delayed, it means that some transactions cannot be performed until it has caught up.
--
Sig design in training: Remaining time 30 years 20 days, 4 hours, 10 mins, 15 seconds. |
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