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Rock Spenser
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Posted - 2008.06.25 18:52:00 -
[1]
OK, so I've been following the mining guide and I'm at the point where I have my first indistrial ship. I started mining in my Bantam and filling my 'can'. I reached a certain level after about an hour and decided it was time to get the industrial and take the contents of my can back to base.......this is where the trouble started.
When I returned to my 'can' the name of it had changed and there was a ship nearby 'Dark Cyberangel' I think, flashing red. When I opened the can I got a msg saying I was stealing his ore. Obviously this was my ore and somehow he had claimed it. (You can probably guess what happened next.) When I took the ore he blew up my industrial.
OK, I am aware that people go around stealing ore and that he was setting a trap for me, but my questions are: What should I have done differently? Was there a way to get my ore back without getting blown up? Was this just something that happens on occasion and I need to suck it up? Is there a way to turn the tables here? What would you have done?
Thanks in advance for your help.
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Huberek Morchu
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Posted - 2008.06.25 19:01:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Rock Spenser
OK, so I've been following the mining guide and I'm at the point where I have my first indistrial ship. I started mining in my Bantam and filling my 'can'. I reached a certain level after about an hour and decided it was time to get the industrial and take the contents of my can back to base.......this is where the trouble started.
When I returned to my 'can' the name of it had changed and there was a ship nearby 'Dark Cyberangel' I think, flashing red. When I opened the can I got a msg saying I was stealing his ore. Obviously this was my ore and somehow he had claimed it. (You can probably guess what happened next.) When I took the ore he blew up my industrial.
OK, I am aware that people go around stealing ore and that he was setting a trap for me, but my questions are: What should I have done differently? Was there a way to get my ore back without getting blown up? Was this just something that happens on occasion and I need to suck it up? Is there a way to turn the tables here? What would you have done?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Type ore theft into search box.
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Lord Haur
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.25 19:01:00 -
[3]
When you warped off to get your industrial, "Dark Cyberangel" looted from your jetcan and put all your ore in a new jetcan belonging to him (he "flipped" your can)
I shall proceede to explain the situation in "Choose Your Own Adventure" style
You spend 1h mining, with all your ore in a Jetcan. You warp off to collect the ore in your industrial.
When you come back, you notice that 1) the ore is in a new container (belonging to Dark Cyberangel), and 2) Dark Cyberangel is flashing red (He is aggressed to you because he stole from your can).
You can either:
1) Attack him in a combat ship (goto a)
2) Ignore him, and take your ore back (goto b)
3) Ignore him, and leave the ore for lost (goto c)
4) Get your player-corp mates to come gank him (goto a)
a) You engange in combat. Whether you win or lose is pot luck, influenced by your ships and skills)
b) After you steal from his can, he proceeds to destroy your industrial, his intention.
c) You lose 1h worth of mining (about 4M isk maybe?), and he gets a heapload of ore to haul.
--- Sig Starts Here ---
Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
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Matalino
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.25 19:06:00 -
[4]
Ownership and the flagging that comes from it it based on the can, not the items.
As soon as he moved the ore to his can he owned it. That act gave you the right to attack him.
Taking the ore back gave him the right to attack you. Remember above, as soon as it was placed into his can it was his ore.
As for what you could have done: simply right off the ore as a loss. The convience of jet-can mining comes with the risk that it will be taken. You can minimize those losses by picking up your ore more frequently. Otherwise it is simply a cost of doing business.
There is pretty much nothing you could do to get your ore back without getting blown up. In future, about the only way to turn the tables is to ensure that you have more and better corp mates that he does. Even then, he is not likely to be putting much on the line with the ship he flies.
Although, if you and your corp mates can kill his ship, suicide ganking his pod might be fun as he is unlikely to expect you to take it that far. With some luck you might catch him with some expensive implants, or if your really lucky an out of date clone. However, that will cost you a ship and some security status.
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Solauren Mirtakh
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Posted - 2008.06.25 19:09:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lord Haur
You can either:
1) Attack him in a combat ship (goto a)
2) Ignore him, and take your ore back (goto b)
3) Ignore him, and leave the ore for lost (goto c)
4) Get your player-corp mates to come gank him (goto a)
5) Make a mental (or preferrably written) note of the player. Deal with him in six months time when he's least expecting it. Revenge is a dish best served cold.
/
á
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Rock Spenser
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Posted - 2008.06.25 19:10:00 -
[6]
Thanks Lord Haur,
That explains a lot. The part I didn't understand was the 'flipping' part. I thought he had somehow changed the name of my can.
I'm wondering why he didn't just loot the can and take off, it's not like he got anything from blowing me up.....
I guess this is another reason to join a corp.
This was in .8 space. Would anything have been different in .9 or 1.0?
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Durzel
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Posted - 2008.06.25 19:13:00 -
[7]
Could you not align to a celestial point that intersects the location of the can, then take back your ore and immediately warp? Requires some skill I suppose but that's an option as well isn't it?
I suppose all things considered it's best just to write off the loss, it's not worth losing your ship over and trust me - he doesn't even want your ore if he's just can-flipped it.
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Matalino
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.25 19:20:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Rock Spenser
This was in .8 space. Would anything have been different in .9 or 1.0?
Same rules apply. Originally by: Durzel
Could you not align to a celestial point that intersects the location of the can, then take back your ore and immediately warp? Requires some skill I suppose but that's an option as well isn't it?
You could try that. Success would depend on who is faster, you or him. Even if you succeed, you would need to spend 15 minutes waiting for the timer to run down.
Might as well write off the ore and find a quieter place to mine.
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Rock Spenser
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Posted - 2008.06.25 19:21:00 -
[9]
Thanks for the help Matalino...
Durzel - he was prepared for that and was able to stop me from warping.
Live and learn I guess.
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Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.25 19:40:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Mendolus on 25/06/2008 19:44:51
Originally by: Rock Spenser
OK, so I've been following the mining guide and I'm at the point where I have my first indistrial ship. I started mining in my Bantam and filling my 'can'. I reached a certain level after about an hour and decided it was time to get the industrial and take the contents of my can back to base.......this is where the trouble started.
When I returned to my 'can' the name of it had changed and there was a ship nearby 'Dark Cyberangel' I think, flashing red. When I opened the can I got a msg saying I was stealing his ore. Obviously this was my ore and somehow he had claimed it. (You can probably guess what happened next.) When I took the ore he blew up my industrial.
OK, I am aware that people go around stealing ore and that he was setting a trap for me, but my questions are: What should I have done differently? Was there a way to get my ore back without getting blown up? Was this just something that happens on occasion and I need to suck it up? Is there a way to turn the tables here? What would you have done?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Invest in a Giant Secure Container (3600m3, 150-400k ISK) and haul it to 0.6 sec space, jettison it, anchor it (may require training) in space 5km from the roids, set a password, and bookmark it. Return with your mining ship later, fill said can to the brim, return in the hauler, and enjoy.
For best results, use three secure containers at each roid belt and buy a hauler you can get to at least 11k m3 cargo hold with fittings.
{...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness} |
joan arcangel
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Posted - 2008.06.25 20:32:00 -
[11]
Edited by: joan arcangel on 25/06/2008 20:35:13
Originally by: Durzel
Could you not align to a celestial point that intersects the location of the can, then take back your ore and immediately warp? Requires some skill I suppose but that's an option as well isn't it?
the best way to do this is warp to can open it, as you pass it have your cargo hold open when your about 5k pass it turn and tell your ship to dock as your ship gets very close to 3/4 speed grab and drop ore into your hold, so they have less then a Sec to scram and shoot you.
But this take's a lot of re-try's before you get the hang of it.. and as other's have said you then need to want 15+ mins untill you can undock.
they also do this to get Killmail's in high sec..
Edited
Forgot to say on a hauler you may want to put a Warp Core Stab or 2 on this will help get out if you get in wrong by a second or 2
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Abraham Mosby
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Posted - 2008.06.25 20:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: joan arcangel
Edited by: joan arcangel on 25/06/2008 20:35:13
Originally by: Durzel
Could you not align to a celestial point that intersects the location of the can, then take back your ore and immediately warp? Requires some skill I suppose but that's an option as well isn't it?
the best way to do this is warp to can open it, as you pass it have your cargo hold open when your about 5k pass it turn and tell your ship to dock as your ship gets very close to 3/4 speed grab and drop ore into your hold, so they have less then a Sec to scram and shoot you.
But this take's a lot of re-try's before you get the hang of it.. and as other's have said you then need to want 15+ mins untill you can undock.
I good thief already has you locked and ready to be scrambled before you grab back the ore.
I have had some success waiting near the can for them to get boored. Then you can grab the ore and warp away. Another tactic is to use ECM and break his lock just before you grab the ore.
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Sun Seer
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Posted - 2008.06.26 12:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Solauren Mirtakh
Originally by: Lord Haur
You can either:
5) Make a mental (or preferrably written) note of the player. Deal with him in six months time when he's least expecting it. Revenge is a dish best served cold.
/
I like that option, as I've recently started doing just that
You Cannot Do That To A Planet |
Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
TRUST Coalition
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Posted - 2008.06.26 13:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Durzel
Could you not align to a celestial point that intersects the location of the can, then take back your ore and immediately warp? Requires some skill I suppose but that's an option as well isn't it?
Originally by: Rock Spenser
Durzel - he was prepared for that and was able to stop me from warping.
I think Durzel means to start the warp, and then as you are accelerating and reach about 50% max speed, you drag all the ore into your cargohold and accept the "theft" warning, if enabled. Due to the delay before someone starts flashing red (I've definitely seen well over a second if not two between my can disappearing and the red flashing coming up), you will not flash red to him before you warp out, if well timed. In his position, even if I could see what you were doing, I would not risk getting CONCORDed by firing before you were truly flashing (and in fact, the popup warning, if enabled, will still show in this case which will put a lot of people off). In short, if you take your stuff back 0.2s before actually entering warp you will be OK, whether they have you locked and are fitting a warp disruptor or not.
Though as has been said, he will still then be able to fire on you for 15 minutes. If the ore represents 30-60 minutes of mining, it's probably worth taking it back and then sitting in station until the aggression timer expires. Otherwise, it might well be worth writing it off, it all depends what it's worth to you.
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Haurian Commando
Outdated Host Productions
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Posted - 2008.06.26 15:25:00 -
[15]
I think he means align to station form the opposite side of the container, so you will be up to speed as you pass it. With both cargo and container open, drag ore to your hold as you pass, accepte warning, and immediately start mashing the "warp to" butotn on the station.
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My Mod autograph collection. Mods, please sign here!
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Please transfer the agreed amount to my Swiss bank account - Mitnal |
Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
TRUST Coalition
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Posted - 2008.06.26 16:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Haurian Commando
I think he means align to station form the opposite side of the container, so you will be up to speed as you pass it. With both cargo and container open, drag ore to your hold as you pass, accepte warning, and immediately start mashing the "warp to" butotn on the station.
Right idea, wrong order. See my post above.
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Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.06.27 08:56:00 -
[17]
Pretty much the best ways to deal with ore thieves are discouragement and avoidance. Discouragement by mining in a joint operation with others, which means the thief will have a lot more heat to deal with if he decides to steal. Especially if some of your buddies are fighter escorts, that should go a long way in persuading him to find easier pickings.
Avoidance in mining in more out of the way areas. The most lucrative ore in high sec right now is Veldspar (yes, it is the cheapest per unit, but because there are so many units in one M3, it's the most valuable of the high sec ores per M3, which is what determines reward per hour in mining) which can be found pretty much anywhere that isn't overmined already (and if it is overmined, that only means more ore thieves. They go where the herd grazes). Mine in an out of the way system, or better yet, mine inside mission areas that you have completed. Many of them have mineable ore (just be careful with the ore in the Blockade. It's trapped). Because mission areas are private waypoints, anyone wanting to visit it that you haven't explicitly shared the bookmark with will have to probe you down. Most ore thieves don't bother with that.
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Durzel
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.06.27 12:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Haurian Commando
I think he means align to station form the opposite side of the container, so you will be up to speed as you pass it. With both cargo and container open, drag ore to your hold as you pass, accepte warning, and immediately start mashing the "warp to" butotn on the station.
This is what I meant, you fly past the can and plot a route past it which takes you to somewhere you can dock - align to that location, as you come within 1500m of the can drag the contents to your cargo and hit warp/dock - you should warp instantly. Obviously if he has you already locked then there's a chance he could interrupt warp, but if you're doing 3/4 speed and aligned properly you should enter warp the moment you click to dock.
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Mara Rinn
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.06.27 13:16:00 -
[19]
By the time the thief is flashing red and sitting next to his can waiting for you, it's too late.
What you should be doing is rolling an alt to haul for you, and have it drag the ore off to its hold as you put it in the can
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
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Posted - 2008.06.27 15:33:00 -
[20]
The lesson here is: Be the pirate, not the chump who spends all his play time mining.
.
Seeking frigateers!
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Solauren Mirtakh
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.06.27 15:59:00 -
[21]
^ I'm beginning to come round to that way of thinking...
á
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Molkil
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Posted - 2008.06.27 19:49:00 -
[22]
I've never been can flipped, but if the ore was taken from your jet can and placed in the pirate's jet can wouldn't the pirate's can be yellow (at least that's the color on my system for wrecks/cans that don't belong to me)?
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