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T1 frigate as poor man's blockade runner?

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Aragane Ferrozoica	Posted - 2008.06.26 03:11:00 - [1] I'm looking for ideas on how to put together a T1 frigate I can use to move goods through low-sec. I know that a 1M MWD and WCS are practically mandatory for a frigate used in this fashion, but I don't know what else I should fit (be it ECM, shield extenders, or what.) All I ask is that people keep in mind I barely have 3M SP, so I'd like to avoid T2 gear if possible. ______ "We as creators do not create a production (with the intention of) maniacs obsessing over it." -Yasuyuki Ueda (Haibane Renmei producer)
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.26 03:30:00 - [2] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 26/06/2008 03:33:09 A word of advice if you're going to be using T1 frigs: - Don't fit shield extenders, because they make you easier to lock - Don't turn on your MWD, because it makes you easier to lock AND slows down your warp time - Fit istabs and nanos for faster warping - Consider using a covops (15 days or so to train from scratch) The best frigs to use for align time and cargo capacity are: - Amarr: Executioner, 2s, 135m^3 - Caldari: Merlin, 2.2s, 130m^3 - Gallente: Incursus, 2.2s, 165m^3 - Minmatar: Vigil, 2s, 150m^3 The fastest T1 frig align time is the Rifter at 1.9s and 130m^3. Once you hit 0.0, all bets are off for T1 frig survivability. -Liang Ed: Parting notes that I forgot: - Istabs increase your sig radius by a percentage, but I feel that it is acceptable to warp faster. - Shield extenders can be beneficial if you think you'll be facing smartbombing battleships/motherships on your route - Never AFK travel, even in a frig. -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Element 22	Posted - 2008.06.26 04:31:00 - [3] I use an incursus, you really don't need anything to hop around in low sec, and a AB will do for 0.0, if you can't escape with an AB then you're probably dead anyways. Signatures are annoying...kinda like me.
Crewman Jenkins	Posted - 2008.06.26 05:41:00 - [4] Edited by: Crewman Jenkins on 26/06/2008 05:43:00 I like the probe because of the cargo space...but I usually just fit a mwd and some I-stabs, a cloak if I can too.
Kinkie Yuuki	Posted - 2008.06.26 05:42:00 - [5] Quote: - Caldari: Merlin, 2.2s, 130m^3 - Minmatar: Vigil, 2s, 150m^3 omg nerf minmaterds
Hesod Adee Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.06.26 05:46:00 - [6] As long as you avoid 0.0, you should be safe in all frigates, maybe even i-stabed/nanoed destroyers. The ships that could lock you before you enter warp won't have the hp to survive the sentry guns. So what I do is: - Jump into system - Manually warp to the next system on route. - Right click on next gate, add as first waypoint. - Hit autopilot. When I reach the gate, the autopilot jumps through then switches off, leaving me safely sitting in the next system. Short of a warp bubble (0.0 only), nothing can catch me.
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers	Posted - 2008.06.26 07:46:00 - [7] I had no idea the Rifter aligns faster than the Vigil and Slasher, that's pretty neat. I use an Executioner with two warp core stabilizers, a MWD, and a cloak. I've never actually had to use the MWD and cloak, because I've never been caught before I could warp. However it's nice knowing it's there. I've used it a few times when I wanted to spy on a gatecamp or lure them off the gate. Be sure to use a Small Standard Container in the cargo to fit a bit more stuff. . Seeking frigateers!
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.26 08:30:00 - [8] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker I had no idea the Rifter aligns faster than the Vigil and Slasher, that's pretty neat. Yeah, but the Vigil goes so much faster than the Rifter. I personally prefer the Vigil for most frig work I do. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.06.26 09:47:00 - [9] I found a probe with a cap battery and MWD quite useful, it also has a decent cargo bay and you can fit a WCS and a nano or even a cargo expander if you like. If you want, you can even put a cloak on it.
Yiv	Posted - 2008.06.26 10:13:00 - [10] Rifter, Vigil or Slasher. Rifter is capable of fighting back aswell, so it might put a few people off attacking you.

Omarvelous Destry's Lounge XIII Legio	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:31:00 - [11] Edited by: Omarvelous on 26/06/2008 13:35:58 Look at the frigates used for popping cynos. Do you see a trend? Its because those ships have large cargo bays. Probe's are good tech 1 frigate haulers, and so are kestrels. In your low slots fit 2 inertia stabilizers = fastest possible align time. In your mid slots fit a MWD. Don't use it unless you're instantly locked. If you get scrammed - hit the mwd and burn back to the gate and jump back. Fill the rest of your mid slots with passive shield resistance amps - as they passively add effective hitpoints without blowing up your sig radius. Covert ops ships with cargo expanders are nice too (about the safest way to haul small valuable items due to being able to warp cloaked) - but the tech 1 frigate hauler is quicker to get into. I don't know why people are suggesting Merlins and Rifters when they hold 1/2 as much. The align time difference isn't worth sacrificing 1/2 your cargo capacity. I suppose I could see a Merlin being useful in surviving a smart bombing BS camping a gate. DON'T fit any offensive modules on your hauler! You don't have any bonuses for ECM - you'll either cap out or fail (most likely both). You've committed an aggressive act and will be denied using the stargate for 1 minute - duh that's the last thing you want when you're hauling. And if you're suggesting he fight back in a Rifter with valuable cargo - maybe you should get your head examined! Actually wait - please DO fight back in your Rifter when I'm at a gate! __________________________________________________ Sup brosef! Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game.
Blue Disk	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:43:00 - [12] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 26/06/2008 03:33:09 - Consider using a covops (15 days or so to train from scratch) You underestimated. At 4.5 million SP I'm 26 days away from a CovOps ship + 5 says for the covert ops cloak.
Yiv	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Omarvelous Edited by: Omarvelous on 26/06/2008 13:35:58 Look at the frigates used for popping cynos. Do you see a trend? Its because those ships have large cargo bays. Probe's are good tech 1 frigate haulers, and so are kestrels. In your low slots fit 2 inertia stabilizers = fastest possible align time. In your mid slots fit a MWD. Don't use it unless you're instantly locked. If you get scrammed - hit the mwd and burn back to the gate and jump back. Fill the rest of your mid slots with passive shield resistance amps - as they passively add effective hitpoints without blowing up your sig radius. Covert ops ships with cargo expanders are nice too (about the safest way to haul small valuable items due to being able to warp cloaked) - but the tech 1 frigate hauler is quicker to get into. I don't know why people are suggesting Merlins and Rifters when they hold 1/2 as much. The align time difference isn't worth sacrificing 1/2 your cargo capacity. I suppose I could see a Merlin being useful in surviving a smart bombing BS camping a gate. DON'T fit any offensive modules on your hauler! You don't have any bonuses for ECM - you'll either cap out or fail (most likely both). You've committed an aggressive act and will be denied using the stargate for 1 minute - duh that's the last thing you want when you're hauling. And if you're suggesting he fight back in a Rifter with valuable cargo - maybe you should get your head examined! Actually wait - please DO fight back in your Rifter when I'm at a gate! No. I said a rifter is capable of fighting back, therefore it might put people off engaging. I didn't say engage in your rifter full of nice cargo. The fact that the rifter is a ship associated with throwaway belt piracy suggests people would not expect you to be hauling nice cargo in it. If I saw a slasher or vigil going through I'd instantly think: ooh BPO time.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum TRUST Coalition	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:21:00 - [14] To be quite honest, if your cargo fits inside the hold of a T1 frigate, then the T1 frigate would be a rich man's blockade runner too. Well, obviously a covops is the top-notch choice - but a T1 frigate will likely align faster than an industrial (certainly with the same rigs & fittings on it), and on the off-chance that someone has a chance to catch you, it doesn't scream "I'm probably full of expensive stuff" like a Transport ship does.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.06.26 19:08:00 - [15] Originally by: Omarvelous I don't know why people are suggesting Merlins and Rifters when they hold 1/2 as much. The align time difference isn't worth sacrificing 1/2 your cargo capacity. I suppose I could see a Merlin being useful in surviving a smart bombing BS camping a gate. Without good nav skills the align time is pretty bad on the bigger frigates. Couple that with a larger sig radius and it's a recipe for trouble. On that note I would never use any frigate other than the following: Executioner (My preferred choice) Condor Atron Slasher For a slightly more luxurious ride, the Daredevil is also quite nice and can fit an MWD, cloak and two Invulnerability Field IIs. With good skills there are obviously better choices than T1 frigates. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers	Posted - 2008.06.26 19:22:00 - [16] Originally by: Omarvelous DON'T fit any offensive modules on your hauler! You don't have any bonuses for ECM - you'll either cap out or fail (most likely both). This whine makes me wonder... what's the align time and cargo capacity of a Griffin? . Seeking frigateers!
Letrange Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2008.06.26 19:32:00 - [17] The reason for the Rifter being faster to align and warp vs the vigil is specifically because of the speed bonus per level the vigil gets. Remember the warp out point is at 75% top speed. The vigil with it's higher top speed (due to the speed bonus) suffers from a longer acceleration time, so takes longer to warp. One of the things that blockade runners teach you is that top speed is counter productive to reducing to warp times. You want to pile on the acceleration and maneuverability. Most of the time, the time it takes you to get to warp is what determines whether you survive or not. Especially with HICs. HICs are your most dangerous enemies and no amount of warp stabs are going to help you get away from one that locked you. This is why blockade runners have cloaks and ECM bursts equipped (really the last ditch measure if all other resources have failed). These days the inherent 2 warp stabs are actually less important than raw warp to speed.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.26 19:56:00 - [18] Originally by: Letrange The reason for the Rifter being faster to align and warp vs the vigil is specifically because of the speed bonus per level the vigil gets. Remember the warp out point is at 75% top speed. The vigil with it's higher top speed (due to the speed bonus) suffers from a longer acceleration time, so takes longer to warp. One of the things that blockade runners teach you is that top speed is counter productive to reducing to warp times. You want to pile on the acceleration and maneuverability. Most of the time, the time it takes you to get to warp is what determines whether you survive or not. Especially with HICs. HICs are your most dangerous enemies and no amount of warp stabs are going to help you get away from one that locked you. This is why blockade runners have cloaks and ECM bursts equipped (really the last ditch measure if all other resources have failed). These days the inherent 2 warp stabs are actually less important than raw warp to speed. /truth -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Trevor Warps	Posted - 2008.06.26 20:37:00 - [19] Originally by: Liang Nuren A word of advice if you're going to be using T1 frigs: - Don't turn on your MWD, because it makes you easier to lock AND Ed: Parting notes that I forgot: - Istabs increase your sig radius by a percentage, but I feel that it is acceptable to warp faster. If you see that all the ships in the camp are slower than you, you can align, hit mwd, and hit warp as soon as you are at like 30km of them quite safely. Very unlikely they will hit you in that time frame. I think Istabs are counter productive on frigs. I use nanos instead.
Richard Third Future Reflected	Posted - 2008.06.26 20:51:00 - [20] Edited by: Richard Third on 26/06/2008 20:51:59 Do you know something about HIC's that I don't? I doubt it. Fit 2 Warp core stabs to a frig and 99% of HIC's won't touch you in low-sec. BTW, 2.2 seconds is enough time to be locked.... so why are you telling him to fit istabs? -- You can't do that with a Planet.

Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.26 20:55:00 - [21] Originally by: Richard Third Edited by: Richard Third on 26/06/2008 20:51:59 Do you know something about HIC's that I don't? I doubt it. Fit 2 Warp core stabs to a frig and 99% of HIC's won't touch you in low-sec. BTW, 2.2 seconds is enough time to be locked.... so why are you telling him to fit istabs? HICs have infinite strength scrams. Also, 2.2s warp times won't be locked, if only because you're already in warp before the cloaking animation finishes. They can't hardly click you fast enough, let alone get the mods to activate. Really, the only things that can have a prayer of locking an istab'ed frig can't sit on gates for fear of sentries. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Chomapuraku Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.06.26 21:35:00 - [22] just out of curiosity, what's the best lock time anyone's gotten for a HIC on a frig-sized ship? like, using a sensor-pimped + remote sensor-pimped HIC on one of the smaller frigs? i wonder if it's possible to target someone with the scram running hot if they cloak/align/mwd. is there any lag between target lock and mod activation in that case? and what about lag for either party involved? does lag just make it a throw of the dice between the target's mod lag and the aggressor's lock/mod lag? i've almost lost the gingerbread man several times to my connection being "ghey" and adding precious seconds to my cloak/mwd/align time, including one where i was targeted and tackled by a HIC (that was 25 km away, with no mwd. dolt.)
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.06.26 22:17:00 - [23] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker I had no idea the Rifter aligns faster than the Vigil and Slasher, that's pretty neat. Surprised me too. I'd always assumed the Slasher was the fastest into warp. I guess 2 extra low slots counts for a lot. 2x nano 1x istab? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis We are Legend	Posted - 2008.06.26 22:20:00 - [24] Edited by: Malcanis on 26/06/2008 22:24:03 Originally by: Gartel Reiman To be quite honest, if your cargo fits inside the hold of a T1 frigate, then the T1 frigate would be a rich man's blockade runner too. Well, obviously a covops is the top-notch choice - but a T1 frigate will likely align faster than an industrial (certainly with the same rigs & fittings on it), and on the off-chance that someone has a chance to catch you, it doesn't scream "I'm probably full of expensive stuff" like a Transport ship does. I think you're underestimating just how quickly a properly fitted BR can get into warp. EDT: A single iStab II is always worthwhile. It does increase sig radius, but the agility increase is much larger. (+11% vs -20%). CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Siouxsie Xai Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.06.26 23:33:00 - [25] Originally by: Blue Disk Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 26/06/2008 03:33:09 - Consider using a covops (15 days or so to train from scratch) You underestimated. At 4.5 million SP I'm 26 days away from a CovOps ship + 5 says for the covert ops cloak. 15 days to train one, is not the same thing as 15 days to get in one. I consider the missing pleasure hub interior a bug.. even if it is not. Please fix it. :P
P'uck	Posted - 2008.06.27 02:58:00 - [26] Edited by: P''uck on 27/06/2008 03:05:05 Originally by: Liang Nuren Ed: Parting notes that I forgot: - Istabs increase your sig radius by a percentage, but I feel that it is acceptable to warp faster. That is something i always wondered but never bothered to thorougly check; I only watched "align time" in EFT, and there at least, the difference between an istab and a nanofiber is only minimal. this difference would then need to be compared to how much the sig penalty would be affecting the locktime of the attacker. and since i dont know both formulas and how they work exactly but have to decide by a gut feeling, i mostly opt for the nanofiber. i definetly would love to see some numbers and explanations on this. but yeah, one thing is for sure: all we need for this blockade running in lowsec with t1 frigs is low align time and low signature. and maybe high cargo, but this is where it gets iffy . probably bring a cheap ass cloak so you can take a break at a safespot if you desperately need to bio in a stationless system. Originally by: Liang Nuren Really, the only things that can have a prayer of locking an istab'ed frig can't sit on gates for fear of sentries. something i never tried, but i would think is possible: you could get an AF (hey i found a role!) and put some extenders/plates/resists and a point on it. then remote rep and remote sensor boost it. I bet you WILL catch one or two istabbed frigs and maybe some shuttles too, even under sentry fire.
Mourn LeBlade	Posted - 2008.06.27 04:04:00 - [27] Originally by: Liang Nuren - Don't fit shield extenders, because they make you easier to lock As a newb I have to ask...how do you find that information, and by what % does it affect the lock? ty
Apoq Surrat	Posted - 2008.06.27 04:59:00 - [28] What do you guys think of using the Amarr Navy Slicer? Its got 2 mids, and 5 lows. 2x istab, 3x nanofiber, with either two medium extenders or passive resist in the mids? Anybody know how fast it aligns like that vs say the rifter or vigil?
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.27 05:01:00 - [29] Originally by: P'uck something i never tried, but i would think is possible: you could get an AF (hey i found a role!) and put some extenders/plates/resists and a point on it. then remote rep and remote sensor boost it. I bet you WILL catch one or two istabbed frigs and maybe some shuttles too, even under sentry fire. Well, lets take this to the extreme: - 1x Scorp, 8x Remote Sensor Booster II - 1x Harpy, 3x Sensor Booster II, WD II Locks anything in (even inties with halo sets) in <0.7s. I'd say the only way you're getting out of this one is with a Covops. That said, there's a certain "module lag" even when you have the mods hot. For me, that time tends to be around 3/4s of a second... so its possible that you'll get caught, and it's possible that you won't. For the ultimate in maneuverability, you could try out a Claw with: 3x LH Istab, Nano II, 2x Poly II, LG Nomad You'll warp in 0.9s and be locked (even by some of the fastest locking ships in the game) in 0.7s. You will not be caught save by smart bombing. Well, if that's your bag anyway. Me? I'd rather just have a scout if I'm moving something that important. Nothing in Eve guarantees safety. -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.06.27 05:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Apoq Surrat What do you guys think of using the Amarr Navy Slicer? Its got 2 mids, and 5 lows. 2x istab, 3x nanofiber, with either two medium extenders or passive resist in the mids? Anybody know how fast it aligns like that vs say the rifter or vigil? 1.8s, 130m^3 -Liang -- It was an honor to participate in the Insurgency campaign in Branch. o7 to all involved.



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