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Cambrian	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:00:00 - [1] I am looking for investment of between 20billion to 40 billion (isk). Shares are 100million isk each. All isk will be returned if target investment of 20 billion isk is not reached. If 20 billion isk in investment is reached I will begin with my work but still continue to take investments until 40 billion is reached. Note: I am new to the forums and don't pretend to understand all the jargon, but my isk making strategy is sound. What I offer 10% return at the end of the first month from when 20 billion isk is received in investments, with an addition of 20% of total profits made, payed out in dividends at the end of each month isk is invested. 10% return to investors at the end of every following month should the investor and I agree to continue. Notes on this: The invested isk will not be returned to the investor within the first month of starting. The investor may ask and receive his initial investment at any time after the first month has passed, unless we have agreed otherwise I reserve the right to give the investor his initial investment back at any time after the first month, unless we have agreed otherwise. My history Cambrian is my main and only character, I have had two alts in the passed month which I no longer have. These alts were used to quickly check other regions market. In under one month I have traded my way from under 2million isk in money and assets to over 600million isk in wallet. Over 95% of the isk was made in trades. Cambrian has approximately 3.5million skill points My Plan Buy a freighter (I have the prerequisite skills to pilot a freighter) Place several already planned buy orders for npc trade goods Wait for orders to complete, whilst I'm waiting for orders to fill do some T2 and other trading across some trading hubs. Move bought goods to selling place and sell, using sell orders or remote selling in future days. I will be specializing in five specific npc goods, for which I have experience in and will bring the highest return. All specifics of prices, quantities, systems, regions, time taken etc have been calculated. I have monitored the market and traded in these npc goods for a month now. I will be very aggressive when trading and have and will be putting in a lot of hours. In addition to npc I will be trading T2 gear for which I have made successful runs with returns of over 20%. Investors risks I don't spend the time needed to make this work, therefore returns are less than promised. Other traders compete aggressively making my margins slimmer. I get pod sickness, taking me out of action for a while. Other Info. I welcome an independent audit I will be spending a lot of time on this so investors isk has the best chance of success I am open to any feedback for improving my proposal.
Sophie Daigneau Risky Advanced Production Enterprises GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:10:00 - [2] Sounds like a good plan. I'll reserve 2b until a proper audit is done.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:14:00 - [3] Originally by: Sophie Daigneau Sounds like a good plan. I'll reserve 2b until a proper audit is done. Then I suggest you get started on doing that audit! Oh, wait... To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Petyr Baelich Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:18:00 - [4] Originally by: Sophie Daigneau Sounds like a good plan. I'll reserve 2b until a proper audit is done. Sounds like a good plan for 2b, but a horrible one for 20. Also, it appears the investors stand to make more money than the IPO holder, which is always a bad sign.
Agent Zofoor	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:20:00 - [5] Originally by: Sophie Daigneau Sounds like a good plan. I'll reserve 2b until a proper audit is done. 40B with no collateral, her main char has about 2 months of training time(3,5M sp are so low.. chars starts with 0,8M when created)
Mazzarins Demise Profit Development and Research Association	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:24:00 - [6] Originally by: Petyr Baelich Originally by: Sophie Daigneau Sounds like a good plan. I'll reserve 2b until a proper audit is done. Sounds like a good plan for 2b, but a horrible one for 20. Also, it appears the investors stand to make more money than the IPO holder, which is always a bad sign. I agree with Petyr, 20 bil is a bit... excessive.
Maestro Del'Tirith Del'Tirith Holdings	Posted - 2008.06.26 12:34:00 - [7] I am so confused.
SoleDeo Gloria Mission Runners Incorporated	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:00:00 - [8] Cambrian, 1) Your character is 18 months old - can you please advise why so few skill points during that time? 2) How much more training time do you have to actually pilot a freighter (you indicate you have the pre-requisites - not sure what that means) 3) I would be happy to do your audit - bear in mind that I am not a long term, established MD forum poster - but I am willing to put in the time to do an in-depth audit. It will require access to your info via a Full API key. Regards My EVE Online Screen Captures Blog
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Sophie Daigneau Sounds like a good plan. I'll reserve 2b until a proper audit is done. Wow a Goonswarm character backing a Goonswarm ALT. This must be a sound investment. To the OP, questions: 1. Why so few sp, for a loner term character? 2. How much profit do you expect to make per month, and why only sharing 20% of that with investors? 3. Why do you think a complete unkown is worth around 20-40B? 4. Do NPC goods make that much money, really????? 5. Post a link to your character in eve-skills so we can see you have the skills to fly the freighter? 6. Is this a bond or an IPO, will you hand out shares in a corp? 7. If you have made 2m - 600m in a few weeks/months do you know you can handle 40B? 8. Why don't you just use your own money and keep building the cash up? 9. In your case what will an API audit get you? 10. Do you have any friends who post in MD that we would recognize? If yes, get them to post about you. Answer these questions and it will be a start.
Kwint Sommer Lothian Quay Industries	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:25:00 - [10] I don't invest in alts with unidentified mains, nor do I invest 20-40 billion in people new to the game who are offering zero security. Cambrian fits in one of those categories as anyone who's been playing the game for a while has a lot more than 3.5M SP between their characters. There's simply nothing here preventing you from walking away with this capital and 20-40 billion profit off an hour or two's work is a very good reason to scam us. Security aside, it is possible to fairly consistently make 10% on more than 20B purely by trading, I should know as I'm currently doing it. However, purely doing high sec trading it is (in my opinion) nearly impossible to consistently make a lot more than 10% on numbers like 40B. The fact that you're guarantying 10% a month is thus rather suspicious. I simply can't believe that a player new to the game can make well above 10% on 20-40 billion when so many seasoned traders can't. I believe you can make 20% or more on a billion but scaling it up to 20 or 40 billion is another matter entirely. I guess you could just be exploiting some bubble or depressed market and you have no intention of using the ISK for more than a month but that's not how you portray things in your offer. Anyways, I don't know why I'm wasting my time debating the merits of the plan as this offer is scrungy as hell. Regardless of what the audit shows I won't be investing, there's simply no reason for the OP not to walk off with the money. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
Cambrian	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:37:00 - [11] thanks for the replies guys. let me tackle each persons comments, questions and concerns one at a time
Cambrian	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:49:00 - [12] Originally by: Petyr Baelich Originally by: Sophie Daigneau Sounds like a good plan. I'll reserve 2b until a proper audit is done. Sounds like a good plan for 2b, but a horrible one for 20. Also, it appears the investors stand to make more money than the IPO holder, which is always a bad sign. It is horrible for 2billion, My plan involves moving very large ammounts of goods and simply wouldn't work (for my ambition anyways) for my time and involvment. I could make 2 billion in a few weeks going the way I'm doing, but still this isnt adequate. I have made clear I need a lot of intial investment, for the simple reason: this is what is needed. I simply would not take 2billion investments, because it would be a waste of my time. It is not part of the plan to trade with 2billion. I am giving 10% on 20-40b, 2b-4b back to investors in a month, which fits well within my plan.
Cambrian	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Agent Zofoor Originally by: Sophie Daigneau Sounds like a good plan. I'll reserve 2b until a proper audit is done. 40B with no collateral, her main char has about 2 months of training time(3,5M sp are so low.. chars starts with 0,8M when created) true I have no collateral, I made this clear. I am a him not a her :) 3.5m sp are irrelevent to a trader, I have all the skills I need to trade efficiently.
Cambrian	Posted - 2008.06.26 13:58:00 - [14] Originally by: SoleDeo Gloria Cambrian, 1) Your character is 18 months old - can you please advise why so few skill points during that time? 2) How much more training time do you have to actually pilot a freighter (you indicate you have the pre-requisites - not sure what that means) 3) I would be happy to do your audit - bear in mind that I am not a long term, established MD forum poster - but I am willing to put in the time to do an in-depth audit. It will require access to your info via a Full API key. Regards Hi, 1. Started game, played for a month, worked abroad and left game, came back with 3 months holiday, started to play again. 2. Just need to buy freighter skill book and train it. I have all the skills necasary to train the freighter skill. 3. If no one else will, sure
Ricdic Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:17:00 - [15] Sophie is probably one of very few goons I respect. However we need to look at this realistically. How easy is it for someone to spend 1.5 months agressively trading on a small amount of isk in the plans to be able to have an audit allow the person to recieve over 20x the amount of funds via investment? I think the whole "audit and I will invest" thing is quite over-rated. It's incredibly easy to simply put a month's work in for a big yield on an IPO and I think people are way too quick to jump into these things. Here we have someone who thinks that moving 2m to 600m is a major achievement and believes they can continue to do this with 40b. You still need to wait for orders to fill and that's usually the biggest factory in trading via this fashion. Especially seeing as you believe there are only 6 specific items you will be trading. Anyway the reason I am so against this, is I also turned 5k into 600m in a month. Now, a couple of months later I have about 20b of liquid ebank isk used for trading and have spent some time agressively working it through orders and the likes. I have managed to bring in about 2b profit per month, or 10% and I have been playing Eve in an industrial sense for 4 years. I found that even with my very high buy orders I had extra capital left over. There wasn't enough stuff on the market to really fill my capital outlay. With Margin Trading 5 I had only 7b tied up in about 80 buy orders which took considerable amounts of time to fill. I would like to believe I am pretty well tuned to the Eve markets and I highly doubt you could pick 6 specific items that could have enough buy/sell transactions to fill 40b of investment that still provide such a return on investment. Same deal with T2. Buy orders on t2 items take a long time to fill. You can get some very nice margins on them when they do, however it's few and far between. Long story short, I don't believe you when you say 6 specific items can allow you to achieve the return on a 40b investment that you claim. Moreso you say you have already been doing it with these items which tells me you aren't trading freighters (as they usually require the most capital). If it's battleships, usually you are making about 5m per unit not counting market transaction fee's. High end implants don't sell very well. If it's minerals your market is heavily flooded and the hardest area in Eve to trade in. So I look from the outside and try to determine what possible 6 items you could be trading that can make such phenomenal profits and require such phenomenal amounts of capital. I am left with mainly motherships, and capital ships, buy off forums and resell etc, however in this case you wouldn't require a freighter. Rigs is my final guess, and a lot of those don't sell well either. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Amrumm Rhetorical Devices	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:32:00 - [16] Originally by: Cambrian <snip>Buy a freighter (I have the prerequisite skills to pilot a freighter) Place several already planned buy orders for npc trade goods Wait for orders to complete, whilst I'm waiting for orders to fill do some T2 and other trading across some trading hubs. Move bought goods to selling place and sell, using sell orders or remote selling in future days. I will be specializing in five specific npc goods, for which I have experience in and will bring the highest return. I have no experience with NPC tradegoods in 0.0 sec, but I recall a forum post about a titan being used to jump some freighters with NPC goods and someone being very upset about the easy profits (together with being upset about complex and moon mining profits I guess). Someone with experience in 0.0 NPC tradegoods?
Cambrian	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:35:00 - [17] Originally by: cosmoray Originally by: Sophie Daigneau Sounds like a good plan. I'll reserve 2b until a proper audit is done. Wow a Goonswarm character backing a Goonswarm ALT. This must be a sound investment. To the OP, questions: 1. Why so few sp, for a loner term character? 2. How much profit do you expect to make per month, and why only sharing 20% of that with investors? 3. Why do you think a complete unkown is worth around 20-40B? 4. Do NPC goods make that much money, really????? 5. Post a link to your character in eve-skills so we can see you have the skills to fly the freighter? 6. Is this a bond or an IPO, will you hand out shares in a corp? 7. If you have made 2m - 600m in a few weeks/months do you know you can handle 40B? 8. Why don't you just use your own money and keep building the cash up? 9. In your case what will an API audit get you? 10. Do you have any friends who post in MD that we would recognize? If yes, get them to post about you. Answer these questions and it will be a start. 1. left game for a while, then came back 2. More than 15%/month is achievable on 20bil-40bil. 10% for investers and the 5%+ for me minus 20% of that 5%+ for investers. I am not willing to give more than 20%, its not worth my time. 3. Perhaps I'm not, its for you to decide, althougth I dont think any one invester will have that much equity in me. 4. They are. 5. Will do. (will be buying friegter from own isk, nearly there) 6. Guess its a bond, like I said in OP not much with jargon, will be sending isk directly to investors. 7. I'll manage 8. Looks like I might have to, if this thing dosnt get going. Obvious answer: time 9. No Idea, just seemed like a necessity from reading other posts. 10. No
Kwint Sommer Lothian Quay Industries	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:40:00 - [18] Edited by: Kwint Sommer on 26/06/2008 14:46:06 Originally by: Amrumm Originally by: Cambrian <snip>Buy a freighter (I have the prerequisite skills to pilot a freighter) Place several already planned buy orders for npc trade goods Wait for orders to complete, whilst I'm waiting for orders to fill do some T2 and other trading across some trading hubs. Move bought goods to selling place and sell, using sell orders or remote selling in future days. I will be specializing in five specific npc goods, for which I have experience in and will bring the highest return. I have no experience with NPC tradegoods in 0.0 sec, but I recall a forum post about a titan being used to jump some freighters with NPC goods and someone being very upset about the easy profits (together with being upset about complex and moon mining profits I guess). Someone with experience in 0.0 NPC tradegoods? That would be promethium (no it's not but it's something like that, I remember it's only use is in building Minmatar outposts) and while you could make a couple billion a day exploiting that you needed a Titan and several freighter flying alts to do so. 20B will not get you access to those things, plus he's talking about putting orders up in high sec. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
Sophie Daigneau Risky Advanced Production Enterprises GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:40:00 - [19] Originally by: Ricdic Sophie is probably one of very few goons I respect. However we need to look at this realistically. How easy is it for someone to spend 1.5 months agressively trading on a small amount of isk in the plans to be able to have an audit allow the person to recieve over 20x the amount of funds via investment? I think the whole "audit and I will invest" thing is quite over-rated. It's incredibly easy to simply put a month's work in for a big yield on an IPO and I think people are way too quick to jump into these things. Sorry if it wasn't clear, but that was sarcasm in my first post. As has been stated by everyone else, going from managing a few hundred million to tens of billions is a huge leap to make and its not something you should do even if you magically got the money.
Salvo Brunel	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:42:00 - [20] With all due respect to the previous posters, why are we discussing the details of the business plan? Isn't the first question we have to ask: might this be a pure scam? We haven't previously heard of this character. He has no viable sponsor. He has very few SP and, by MD standards, a low NAV. He is offering no collateral. When he has 20-40 billion in his account, why won't he just walk away?
Cambrian	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:45:00 - [21] Originally by: Ricdic Sophie is probably one of very few goons I respect. However we need to look at this realistically. How easy is it for someone to spend 1.5 months agressively trading on a small amount of isk in the plans to be able to have an audit allow the person to recieve over 20x the amount of funds via investment? I think the whole "audit and I will invest" thing is quite over-rated. It's incredibly easy to simply put a month's work in for a big yield on an IPO and I think people are way too quick to jump into these things. Here we have someone who thinks that moving 2m to 600m is a major achievement and believes they can continue to do this with 40b. You still need to wait for orders to fill and that's usually the biggest factory in trading via this fashion. Especially seeing as you believe there are only 6 specific items you will be trading. Anyway the reason I am so against this, is I also turned 5k into 600m in a month. Now, a couple of months later I have about 20b of liquid ebank isk used for trading and have spent some time agressively working it through orders and the likes. I have managed to bring in about 2b profit per month, or 10% and I have been playing Eve in an industrial sense for 4 years. I found that even with my very high buy orders I had extra capital left over. There wasn't enough stuff on the market to really fill my capital outlay. With Margin Trading 5 I had only 7b tied up in about 80 buy orders which took considerable amounts of time to fill. I would like to believe I am pretty well tuned to the Eve markets and I highly doubt you could pick 6 specific items that could have enough buy/sell transactions to fill 40b of investment that still provide such a return on investment. Same deal with T2. Buy orders on t2 items take a long time to fill. You can get some very nice margins on them when they do, however it's few and far between. Long story short, I don't believe you when you say 6 specific items can allow you to achieve the return on a 40b investment that you claim. Moreso you say you have already been doing it with these items which tells me you aren't trading freighters (as they usually require the most capital). If it's battleships, usually you are making about 5m per unit not counting market transaction fee's. High end implants don't sell very well. If it's minerals your market is heavily flooded and the hardest area in Eve to trade in. So I look from the outside and try to determine what possible 6 items you could be trading that can make such phenomenal profits and require such phenomenal amounts of capital. I am left with mainly motherships, and capital ships, buy off forums and resell etc, however in this case you wouldn't require a freighter. Rigs is my final guess, and a lot of those don't sell well either. I cant remember saying that 2m to 600m is a major achievement just stating the facts that I did, and that I was looking for investments so I could make more isk faster. It is do-able, but if I dont get the investment, fine, I'm not going to cry about it. I did say at the end of my OP I was open to sugestions on how to improve this.
Sophie Daigneau Risky Advanced Production Enterprises GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:47:00 - [22] Originally by: Kwint Sommer That would be promethium if memory serves and while you could make a couple billion a day exploiting that you needed a Titan and several freighter flying alts to do so. 20B will not get you access to those things, plus he's talking about putting orders up in high sec. Not anymore you won't. The thing that was special about them was that you could buy up an entire sell order at a given price, and sell to a buy order at a given price. If you were the only one running the route you'd get some very nice prices. Now there are lots of other people competing for the routes you're talking about, and each time someone buys even a fraction of the sell order, or sells a fraction to the buy order, the price adjusts for the next guy making it slightly less profitable. Before you had a couple titan pilots running a monopoly on certain goods which is why they were making a couple billion a day, but now without that monopoly we're talking about maybe a few hundred million which isn't enough to make it worth risking that much in assets.
Kwint Sommer Lothian Quay Industries	Posted - 2008.06.26 14:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Salvo Brunel With all due respect to the previous posters, why are we discussing the details of the business plan? Isn't the first question we have to ask: might this be a pure scam? When he has 20-40 billion in his account, why won't he just walk away? I'm pretty sure I said that, in fact, Quote: Anyways, I don't know why I'm wasting my time debating the merits of the plan as this offer is scrungy as hell. Regardless of what the audit shows I won't be investing, there's simply no reason for the OP not to walk off with the money. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
SoleDeo Gloria Mission Runners Incorporated	Posted - 2008.06.26 15:45:00 - [24] Regardless - I would still like the opportunity (call it training) to do the audit. I would like to hone this skill for future investments as well. My EVE Online Screen Captures Blog
Ricdic Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.06.26 16:19:00 - [25] Knock yourself out Just remember to simply provide statistics and verified data, try to remove opinion and any bias from the quote. Some people occasionally have a small blurb below their report that may state their opinion on the viability of the stock based on their audit results, however that part is up to you. Just don't mix it up with the report itself. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
SoleDeo Gloria Mission Runners Incorporated	Posted - 2008.06.26 16:22:00 - [26] Thanks Ricdic, that is my intention - to provide information only - no opinions - I am not smart enough to interpret the data - but I am very skilled (at least in RL) of capturing and presenting it. My EVE Online Screen Captures Blog
Amrumm Rhetorical Devices	Posted - 2008.06.26 16:29:00 - [27] Sophie, Kwint, thanks for the info. Wondered if that was still a valid option for 0.0 trade. Cambrian, hope you didn't mind the thread highjack.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2008.06.26 17:09:00 - [28] Your answers to my questions really cleared things up! Come up with the why an audit would persuade people to invest in you at least. Dunno??? Don't really think this will get off the ground
Cambrian	Posted - 2008.06.26 18:42:00 - [29] Originally by: cosmoray Your answers to my questions really cleared things up! Come up with the why an audit would persuade people to invest in you at least. Dunno??? Don't really think this will get off the ground I've figured that out. You would see the skills I have, the character I have and the transactions I have made. Dont think anyones lies would be a charater with 3.5m sp and 600mill of wealth. Looks like I'll be doing this with no investment. I'll post back here in the future about my progress.
Roguehalo RH Ship Brokers	Posted - 2008.06.26 19:24:00 - [30] so much scrunge about

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