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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Kel'dar Drax
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Posted - 2008.06.30 22:56:00 -
[1]
What is going on with the faction navies in FW?
I just watched a minmatar militia gang sit in plain sight on the niarja/madir gate for 20minutes... and then kill an amarr militia Drake, without any sign of the amarr navy?
This is a 0.5 sec system.
Is this 'working as intended' or is the navy response borked?
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Jei'son Bladesmith
The Storm Knights
The Cool Kids Club
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Posted - 2008.06.30 22:59:00 -
[2]
Nothing to see here.
Move along citizen.
There are no Bugs, only Surprise Bonus FeaturesÖ.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.06.30 23:01:00 -
[3]
Remote Repping?
SKUNK
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Kel'dar Drax
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Posted - 2008.06.30 23:04:00 -
[4]
The faction navy did not spawn. The minnie cerb, ishtar and huginn were still siting on the gates in Niarja when i came back through the system...still no faction navy to be seen.
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FORD ESC0RT
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.30 23:05:00 -
[5]
petition it.
no EVE related content sig. ~WeatherMan
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.06.30 23:08:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Kel'dar Drax
Niarja [...] The faction navy did not spawn
 What the hell ?
It's a 0.542 truesec system in Domain (Amarr highsec) - Amarr faction navy NPCs were supposed to spawn and keep respawning to kill (or at least bother) the Minmatar militiamen - 2 frigates and cruisers for each Minmatar militia ship.
Bugreport it ?
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Kel'dar Drax
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Posted - 2008.06.30 23:42:00 -
[7]
Just went back through Niarja and now there are 8 Sarum Navy ships on the gate...maybe they don't respond during their lunch hour? 
Would be nice to know if you can sit in a hostile faction highsec system for an hour before the navy shows up?
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Khlitouris RegusII
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Posted - 2008.07.01 00:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Remote Repping?
SKUNK
you dont need to remote rep if theres nothing shooting you |
Market AltLOLOLOLO
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Posted - 2008.07.01 20:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
Originally by: Le Skunk
Remote Repping?
SKUNK
you dont need to remote rep if theres nothing shooting you
And with Neut, it is impossible to remote rep. And neutrals that remote rep you will get aggro and spawn wave in as well.
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Jawas
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.01 20:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kel'dar Drax
Just went back through Niarja and now there are 8 Sarum Navy ships on the gate...maybe they don't respond during their lunch hour?
Damn, these guys are eager. According to the time on your post, they still had 18 minutes of their lunch hour to go.
--
Sig design in training: Remaining time 30 years 20 days, 4 hours, 10 mins, 15 seconds. |
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Sky Grunthor
Minmatar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.01 21:44:00 -
[11]
Or maybe they figured out how to raid opposing faction High sec like FOOM did with Jita.
Search: Sky Grunthor |
Threv Echandari
Caldari
K Directorate
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Posted - 2008.07.01 22:12:00 -
[12]
How to take advantage of 20 second Response time of Faction Navy hmmm,
2 or more teams one at a nearby Safe spot the other at the Gate Warping in and out and changing positions every 18 seconds....(talk about discipline) The Warp out resets the Navy Response timer apparently. This give the impression that the gate is camped and 18 seconds is long enough to primary loners going through the gate then Getting the the heck out....
at least that my theory
Happiness is a Wet Pod
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CCP Mitnal
C C P
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Posted - 2008.07.01 22:24:00 -
[13]
Could you please bug report this?
You can do so here.
Mitnal
Community Representative
CCP Games, EVE Online
Email / Netfang |
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Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2008.07.01 22:44:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Celeste Coeval on 01/07/2008 22:45:32
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kel'dar Drax
Niarja [...] The faction navy did not spawn
What the hell ?
It's a 0.542 truesec system in Domain (Amarr highsec) - Amarr faction navy NPCs were supposed to spawn and keep respawning to kill (or at least bother) the Minmatar militiamen - 2 frigates and cruisers for each Minmatar militia ship.
Bugreport it ?
actually it is 1 frigate, x 2 cruiser, and a bs. they arent that hard to outrun either tbh or fight under the noses of. But yes bugreport it.
Originally by: Lance Fighter
This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route. |
Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.01 22:53:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 01/07/2008 22:54:13
There are ways to keep the Navy from preventing your success with one team, but most assuredly, they are still around - it's just a question of how you deal with them.
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Threv Echandari
Caldari
K Directorate
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Posted - 2008.07.01 23:15:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Threv Echandari on 01/07/2008 23:15:30
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Could you please bug report this?
You can do so here.
I have reported it.... With respect to your response, does taking advantage of this constitute an Exploit?
Happiness is a Wet Pod
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.01 23:47:00 -
[17]
Obviously not, since we don't even have confirmation of the bug. There is a way that what was described could happen, but the enemy militia WOULD be in system and WOULD be active.
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Galyrion
Prison Break Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.01 23:57:00 -
[18]
There is no bug, gm's have been contacted
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Threv Echandari
Caldari
K Directorate
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Posted - 2008.07.01 23:59:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon
Obviously not, since we don't even have confirmation of the bug. There is a way that what was described could happen, but the enemy militia WOULD be in system and WOULD be active.
I really dont' think its a bug as the system seems to be working as designed..you stay for 20 seconds and the Navy will respond... I was just surprised at CCP Mitnals response after I posted..
Happiness is a Wet Pod
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Market AltLOLOLOLO
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Posted - 2008.07.02 15:33:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Market AltLOLOLOLO on 02/07/2008 15:36:26
Originally by: Galyrion
There is no bug, gm's have been contacted
They GM's have not said anything, as I imagine they are investigating this. It is just you saying that, not the GM.
Warping in and out is not what this exploit is. The exploit is that the navies forget to target the milita. This is definetly 100% a exploit.
Imagine if you did a lvl4 and the rats all forgot to target you. Or you do a suicide gank and Concord forget to target you. I would call that a exploit. However, the people doing it refuse to accept it as such.
The ships camping stations are NOT warping in and out every 10 or 18 seconds. They are doing something else.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.02 15:37:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Akita T on 02/07/2008 15:42:20
Originally by: Celeste Coeval
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kel'dar Drax
Niarja [...] The faction navy did not spawn
It's a 0.542 truesec system in Domain (Amarr highsec) - Amarr faction navy NPCs were supposed to spawn and keep respawning to kill (or at least bother) the Minmatar militiamen - 2 frigates and cruisers for each Minmatar militia ship.
actually it is 1 frigate, x 2 cruiser, and a bs. they arent that hard to outrun either tbh or fight under the noses of. But yes bugreport it.
That would be the 0.7 response team. The response varies according to security rating.
The 1.0 response team is 2 battleships, 1 cruiser and a frigate, for instance.
P.S. This is completely different from fighting under NPC fire.
_
EXPRESS SUPPORT for the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.02 16:23:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 02/07/2008 16:24:02
zomg, wrong topic :/
---
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
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Jaghound
Caldari
Humantarget
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Posted - 2008.07.02 19:38:00 -
[23]
Had same thing happen to me, minnie ships sitting in gates in plain sight and proceeded to blow my drake to pieces (I did tank them for many minutes with no hope). Did a petition, let see what happens ...
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ThrudUK
Caldari
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2008.07.02 20:22:00 -
[24]
While this happened did you notice the extra enemy ship in system NOT on the gate?
The one that's perhaps tanking the Faction Navy response elsewhere?
The question to ask is does the faction navy spawn for every new enemy incursion or not?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.02 21:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: ThrudUK
While this happened did you notice the extra enemy ship in system NOT on the gate?
The one that's perhaps tanking the Faction Navy response elsewhere?
The question to ask is does the faction navy spawn for every new enemy incursion or not?
There is supposed to be an individual (and identical) set of spawns (and continuous respawns of destroyed ones) for each enemy militia ship that attacks an follows that ship only.
The spawning set is dependant on system security only (or at least so it seems).
_
EXPRESS SUPPORT for the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
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ThrudUK
Caldari
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: ThrudUK
While this happened did you notice the extra enemy ship in system NOT on the gate?
The one that's perhaps tanking the Faction Navy response elsewhere?
The question to ask is does the faction navy spawn for every new enemy incursion or not?
There is supposed to be an individual (and identical) set of spawns (and continuous respawns of destroyed ones) for each enemy militia ship that attacks an follows that ship only.
The spawning set is dependant on system security only (or at least so it seems).
I don't think that's happening.
I suspect 1 ship (CS or Hictor) is jumping in and warping to SS then tanking the one and only spawn...leaving his gang mates free to jump in after and cause havoc.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:20:00 -
[27]
Originally by: ThrudUK
I don't think that's happening.
I suspect 1 ship (CS or Hictor) is jumping in and warping to SS then tanking the one and only spawn...leaving his gang mates free to jump in after and cause havoc.
Well, that's why I said it was "supposed to"...
And also, the reason Mitnal said "bug report it".
_
EXPRESS SUPPORT for the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
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Demarcus
Killjoy.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: FORD ESC0RT
petition it.
You probably get a more useful response by talking to the nearest wall.
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You are all worthless, and weak.
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.02 22:40:00 -
[29]
There is a lot more than one spawn.
Just let go. The system works fine for everything but a well-planned and executed raid. You will not have automatic, automated defenses of your interior systems without your own effort during an Empire War Dec. Deal with it. Faction War is an Empire War Declaration, and that means all space is fair game. CCP has as much as confirmed this. Quit bellyaching and either learn the technique or learn the counter.
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Doc Fury
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Posted - 2008.07.02 23:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Could you please bug report this?
You can do so here.
Originally by: Kosh
And so it begins...
It's so safe to play along, little soldiers in a row
Falling in and out of love, with something sweet to throw away.
I want something good to DIE for...to make it beautiful to live. |
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masternerdguy
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Posted - 2008.07.03 00:23:00 -
[31]
its the next bob cheat
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LuthienTinuviel
The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2008.07.03 01:38:00 -
[32]
Edited by: LuthienTinuviel on 03/07/2008 01:38:13
hmm is this the Caldari/Amarr OMG TEH WORLD IT ENDETH thread? seriously though if you think it's a bug https://bugs.eve-online.com/newbugreport.asp is the place your looking for if you think it's an exploit then petition it you have the means to do that in game but for the last time stop throwing unsubstantiated allegations about people exploiting cause you just don't know that.... Use the official channels if you think something is going wrong  .
Oh but I forgot this is the court of the internets where evidence has no place .
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Ulstan
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.03 02:47:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Just let go. The system works fine for everything but a well-planned and executed raid.
Lol.
The fact that a bug takes a coordinated well organized team to exploit doesn't mean it's not a bug, as I'm sure you know.
If a fleet is able to sit around for long periods of time with no navy interference (as described in this thread) something is pretty clearly not working as intended.
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.07.03 11:45:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 03/07/2008 11:47:49
If you, as a member of a FW militia enter enemy high sec and notice that you are not attacked by the NPC navy ships, you KNOW it is a bug. We all know how the mechanics are supposed to work. If you take advantage of the bug, you are exploiting it.
Now, if this is a bannable offense or not is up to the GM's to decide, but in general please do not waste everybody's time by taking advantage of bugs and claiming ignorance. Your "victims" will have their ships reimbursed anyway.
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Mr. Science & Trade Institute |
Kalintos Tyl
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Posted - 2008.07.03 11:56:00 -
[35]
In amar you have faction navy to protect you. its called amarr miltia where it did go?
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Jaghound
Caldari
Mining and Innovation and Killing United
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Posted - 2008.07.04 08:37:00 -
[36]
Well, unsursprisingly my petition was turned down, so it seems metagaming the navy militia away from gate and ganking FW wartargets in hi-sec _is_ now a legit method. To me this means end of FW participation (hey, I like to do more than just pew pew!).
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shiamizu
Outriders
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Posted - 2008.07.04 08:47:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Jaghound
Well, unsursprisingly my petition was turned down, so it seems metagaming the navy militia away from gate and ganking FW wartargets in hi-sec _is_ now a legit method. To me this means end of FW participation (hey, I like to do more than just pew pew!).
hoorah, all amarr should die, now also in high sec \o/
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Venec
Rave Technologies Inc.
C0VEN
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Posted - 2008.07.04 09:02:00 -
[38]
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaw 
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Ralara
Caldari
Vivicide
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Posted - 2008.07.04 10:24:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jaghound
Well, unsursprisingly my petition was turned down, so it seems metagaming the navy militia away from gate and ganking FW wartargets in hi-sec _is_ now a legit method. To me this means end of FW participation (hey, I like to do more than just pew pew!).
Escallate it and complain to CCP about that GM, he's a moron.
You see, this is why people have so little faith in the GMs. They have not got a clue what they're on about. CCP Mitnal said to bug report it, GMs now saying it's not a bug. Rubbish.
1000 monkeys and 1000 keyboards do not make good GMs, CCP.
--
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.07.04 10:32:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon
There is a lot more than one spawn.
Just let go. The system works fine for everything but a well-planned and executed raid. You will not have automatic, automated defenses of your interior systems without your own effort during an Empire War Dec. Deal with it. Faction War is an Empire War Declaration, and that means all space is fair game. CCP has as much as confirmed this. Quit bellyaching and either learn the technique or learn the counter.
Come on, you know it's meta-gaming and borderline exploiting. It's classified as an exploit for a -10 character to do what you did in Jita to fly around highsec (read: not fight anyone), do you think it's any different in this case?
If they're allowing you to do it, I may as well jump my alt into highsec, get all the faction spawns aggro'd and let the rest of my -10 corp members wreak havoc.
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Originally by: CCP Mitnal
It's great being a puppetmaster 
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Jones Maloy
Minmatar
Revival.
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Posted - 2008.07.05 07:14:00 -
[41]
navys chase drones before ships. nano a ship, have fleet assign a warrior II from each ship to you, mwd away from navy fleet. navy fleet chases all the drones.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
somebody confirm or deny this please!
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Raymon James
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.07.05 07:34:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Raymon James on 05/07/2008 07:36:05
Originally by: Jones Maloy
navys chase drones before ships. nano a ship, have fleet assign a warrior II from each ship to you, mwd away from navy fleet. navy fleet chases all the drones.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
somebody confirm or deny this please!
you just need Warior Is from what I have seen, and thats not counting the times the AIs seem to just flat out ignore you when they warp in.
Granted its not that often, but it does happen.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.05 07:44:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 05/07/2008 07:47:17
Originally by: Ralara
Originally by: Jaghound
Well, unsursprisingly my petition was turned down, so it seems metagaming the navy militia away from gate and ganking FW wartargets in hi-sec _is_ now a legit method. To me this means end of FW participation (hey, I like to do more than just pew pew!).
Escallate it and complain to CCP about that GM, he's a moron.
You see, this is why people have so little faith in the GMs. They have not got a clue what they're on about. CCP Mitnal said to bug report it, GMs now saying it's not a bug. Rubbish.
1000 monkeys and 1000 keyboards do not make good GMs, CCP.
Great way to twist what they say Ral.
CCP Mithat did day "Could you please bug report this?" about Navy ships presents at the gate and apparently not firing.
Jaghound petition was about
"minnie ships sitting in gates in plain sight and proceeded to blow my drake to pieces (I did tank them for many minutes with no hope). Did a petition, let see what happens ..."
Two different things.
As it was explained in another thread apparently only 10 navy spawn will be present in a single system. So a well orchestrated raid can have 10 ships +remoter reppers hidden at a safespot, tanking the navy, while the rest of the enemies do what they want in system.
If the limit of 10 NPC navy swarms for each system was implemented by CCP on purpose (and I doubt it was done by error) it is an intended game mechanic. To defend a system in high sec from enemy invasion you can't count only on Faction Navy but need a active militia involvement.
So if that is how it work it was right refusing Jaghound petition.
At the same time if faction navy is present at a gate and not firing on PC in the enemy militia that should be bug reported.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.05 07:46:00 -
[44]
Originally by: techzer0
Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon
There is a lot more than one spawn.
Just let go. The system works fine for everything but a well-planned and executed raid. You will not have automatic, automated defenses of your interior systems without your own effort during an Empire War Dec. Deal with it. Faction War is an Empire War Declaration, and that means all space is fair game. CCP has as much as confirmed this. Quit bellyaching and either learn the technique or learn the counter.
Come on, you know it's meta-gaming and borderline exploiting. It's classified as an exploit for a -10 character to do what you did in Jita to fly around highsec (read: not fight anyone), do you think it's any different in this case?
If they're allowing you to do it, I may as well jump my alt into highsec, get all the faction spawns aggro'd and let the rest of my -10 corp members wreak havoc.
Yes, completly Faction Navy si not Concord.
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Jones Maloy
Minmatar
Revival.
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Posted - 2008.07.05 07:54:00 -
[45]
i'm strongly for my theory as i've seen 3 hostiles in system with a hugnin and cerb at the gate not tanking and 8 sarum navy ships sitting there doing nothing.
do navy spawned from previous ships that have left system hjang around and not do anything?
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Arlenna Molatov
Caldari
The 59th Parallel
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Posted - 2008.07.05 08:31:00 -
[46]
Like someone here said, have it escalated so that someone with some brains can check it out.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.05 08:33:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Jones Maloy
i'm strongly for my theory as i've seen 3 hostiles in system with a hugnin and cerb at the gate not tanking and 8 sarum navy ships sitting there doing nothing.
do navy spawned from previous ships that have left system hjang around and not do anything?
That merit a bug report, even if there are several possible explanations:
1) Sarum is not faction navy so it is right for them not to fire on militia ships (like costum for Gallente);
2) I don't know how the old Navy units (those that were presents at the gates before FW) react to Militia. So it is possible that those old model ships are there but not react as the player hasn't -5 or worse faction standing (in the past they reacted only to standing).
3) From what I get currently the militia player get a "personal" spawn of 4 ships. If that is destroyed he get another. If the player is destroyed the spawn should de-spawn, not aggres another player adding to his "personal" spawn. If something is broken in the de-spawn system it is possible to have spawn doing nothing (and that can be a very bad bug if the spawn is still counted in the max number of possible spawns in system).
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Steve Celeste
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Posted - 2008.07.05 15:36:00 -
[48]
"the hardcode limit for the number of (faction navy) spawns active per system is limited to 10 no matter how many enemies jump inside the system.
As such, 10 pilots could easily reach the spawn number limit and keep the military distracted while other characters are safely camping the station or the system itself without any retaliation. This is considered as a valid game mechanic, as the Navies are only supposed to assist FW players in high-security space and not obliterate any invasion force."
Not sure if i can quote GM's but guess i just did it :)
This means that you are never safe in your own highsec, and lost ships will not be reimbursed.
Kinda sucks, but that's the way it is... 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.05 15:38:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Steve Celeste
the hardcode limit for the number of (faction navy) spawns active per system is limited to 10 no matter how many enemies jump inside the system
I am having trouble expressing my disgust at this in words that wouldn't get filtered out.
_
SUPPORT or CRITICIZE the issue of mineral and moon material balance !
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Belatu Cadro
Minmatar
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.07.05 15:59:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Steve Celeste
the hardcode limit for the number of (faction navy) spawns active per system is limited to 10 no matter how many enemies jump inside the system
I am having trouble expressing my disgust at this in words that wouldn't get filtered out.
If you're in the militia you are at war, nowhere did CCP say that FW will be limited to low sec only, yes the navies make it more difficult to attack in high sec, but they do not and should not make it impossible, if you want to be a safe little carebear in high sec then don't join FW, problem solved.
See you in Amarr Soon.
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Urtok
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.05 16:06:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
[
1) Sarum is not faction navy so it is right for them not to fire on militia ships (like costum for Gallente);
Wrong, oh so wrong. The Amarr FW Faction Navy is called Sarum Navy. Sarum Navy is what spawns when a Minmatar militia war target enters an Amarr hisec system. The custom ships are called Amarr customs.
WoW killer. No, not a joke...really...why won't you belive me!!!! |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.07.05 16:13:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Belatu Cadro
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Steve Celeste
the hardcode limit for the number of (faction navy) spawns active per system is limited to 10 no matter how many enemies jump inside the system
I am having trouble expressing my disgust at this in words that wouldn't get filtered out.
If you're in the militia you are at war, nowhere did CCP say that FW will be limited to low sec only, yes the navies make it more difficult to attack in high sec, but they do not and should not make it impossible, if you want to be a safe little carebear in high sec then don't join FW, problem solved.
See you in Amarr Soon.
They did however say that attacking high sec would result in them getting chased down by the other factions navy. At the moment people are getting around this by using an unforseen loophole in the way the navies work.
Losing ships in high sec was always going to happen but I was told that I would have some sort of backup from the navy in my back yard.
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