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Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
385
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Posted - 2012.03.16 00:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Andski wrote:Florestan Bronstein wrote:I don't quite follow your "it's your duty to play GM" argument by the way - if you feel annoyed by bots you can report them to CCP and no alliance policy can stop you from doing it (in fact unless you're a dramawhore nobody but you and CCP will ever know about it). It's up to CCP to determine whether your suspicions are correct based on their various detection methods and hand out bans as necessary. Running around to shoot people that might be bots does not make a big practical difference in the fight against bots but carries the potential for a lot of diplomatic conflicts and immense drama in case of false positives. this is correct, people do not pay for this game to go around playing CCP's cop I can understand not shooting blue bots (You cant be 100 percent sure I guess) Yet you are not saying you actively discourage bot reporting are you? Let me put it in another way. Scn A) Goons just say don't shoot blues. You personally don't report bots because you feel CCP should autodetect them or something? Which is a personal choice not an alliance policy. Scn B) The rumor that Goons actively discourage members from reporting blue bot activities. Or say that Goon bots help goons so they should not be reported. Which one is more correct?
If Scn B) is correct, then nobody from goonswarm is going to confirm it. Despite the Goon ethos, I wouldn't believe Scn B) unless there were leaked forums which confirmed it. And let's be honest, it isn't THAT difficult to get into Goonswarm. If there really was an official rule somewhere, a spy would have done a forum dump and put it out into the public for all to see. |
SpaceSquirrels
268
|
Posted - 2012.03.16 02:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ignoring it and supporting it aren't synonymous. Wasn't there a thread awhile ago stating their policy was to not narc anyone out? It was CCP's job to deal with it...
I'm not saying it's right, but how often do you narc out a friend in real life... now this is a game so even less incentive to do so. Lets face it more people than Goons in this game ignore bots. Whats the difference between a guy in high sec ignoring it, and a guy in null doing the same?
Once again not condoning it rather stating it is what it is.
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Endeavour Starfleet
704
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Posted - 2012.03.16 03:18:00 -
[33] - Quote
SpaceSquirrels wrote:Ignoring it and supporting it aren't synonymous. Wasn't there a thread awhile ago stating their policy was to not narc anyone out? It was CCP's job to deal with it...
I'm not saying it's right, but how often do you narc out a friend in real life... now this is a game so even less incentive to do so. Lets face it more people than Goons in this game ignore bots. Whats the difference between a guy in high sec ignoring it, and a guy in null doing the same?
Once again not condoning it rather stating it is what it is.
Bots are unfair to other blues and harm the game for everyone. I have heard rumors of a "No report" policy but I want to hear it directly from them about the subject.
All I hope they do is if its painfully obvious someone is botting just report it. No need to bot hunt or take any real time to do it. Even if they are forced to act more human it will be better because if most bots have to do that it will really reduce bot output into the game. |
Endeavour Starfleet
705
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Posted - 2012.03.17 04:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
Goons. Can I get an answer please? |
Holy One
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
174
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Posted - 2012.03.17 05:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
this is absolute nonsense. you'll be telling me there aren't any new players in eve next. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
29
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Posted - 2012.03.17 06:22:00 -
[36] - Quote
paraphrasing The Mittani wrote:It is policy to not report blues. However, since it is all anonymous there is nothing to stop someone from reporting another goon. If a person reports a blue and keeps their mouth shut about it, nothing will happen. If they go blabbing about it, they are asking for trouble.
CCP Sreegs is in charge of taking care of the bot problem. He gets paid for this. We would rather let him do his job than try and do it for him and take that money ourtof his pocket. |
Florestan Bronstein
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
455
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Posted - 2012.03.17 06:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Goons. Can I get an answer please? http://www.evenews24.com/2011/09/28/endie-goonswarm-federation-alliance-update-september-28th/
section about Blue-On-Blue Violence
tl;dr "we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons" |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
234
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Posted - 2012.03.17 06:57:00 -
[38] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:"omg they tell people not to report each other" : an unenforceable policy is just that - unenforceable. If you feel the compulsion to inform people how you just reported their characters then your main purpose is drama, not making eve a better place. Nobody can stop you from doing the part that matters (hitting the report button) but if you feel the need to go the extra mile to destabilize your own alliance (by provoking unnecessary conflict) then expect to be treated accordingly. I think that's a reasonable policy. Pft, if they wanted drama they could come on here and post on an NPC alt. "GOONIES botting ISKIES" Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Endeavour Starfleet
705
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Posted - 2012.03.17 07:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
Again I do not think in game attacking a blue because you think he/she is botting is the solution. I only care about the reporting part.
Again what scn that I described above is correct goons? A or B? |
Proletariat Tingtango
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
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Posted - 2012.03.17 09:23:00 -
[40] - Quote
Taihbea wrote:Caldari Citizen20110707 wrote:Goon Bot policy: Dont shoot
Goons are confirmed to be blue to biggest RTM alliance in eve; shadow of XXDEATHXX It's always dark under a lamp and considering that CCP literally is cooperating (all those posts about goon working for CCP) with them then what do you expect? Information is the key and once you have a "loyal" insider you learn how to avoid things. All thos hi sec what ever they do is just a smoke screen to get as much ISK as possible befoe the ultimate banhammer hits. Look at all auction portals. Somebody selling 99 ******* plexes got to be in a large alliance. And if you are quet about it you usually get a share. **** all of them but what can you do? CCP sucks at many levels and they don't seem to care.
I think you forgot to take your seroquel and/or thorazine today. |
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Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
423
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Posted - 2012.03.17 09:35:00 -
[41] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Andski wrote:Florestan Bronstein wrote:I don't quite follow your "it's your duty to play GM" argument by the way - if you feel annoyed by bots you can report them to CCP and no alliance policy can stop you from doing it (in fact unless you're a dramawhore nobody but you and CCP will ever know about it). It's up to CCP to determine whether your suspicions are correct based on their various detection methods and hand out bans as necessary. Running around to shoot people that might be bots does not make a big practical difference in the fight against bots but carries the potential for a lot of diplomatic conflicts and immense drama in case of false positives. this is correct, people do not pay for this game to go around playing CCP's cop I can understand not shooting blue bots (You cant be 100 percent sure I guess) Yet you are not saying you actively discourage bot reporting are you? Let me put it in another way. Scn A) Goons just say don't shoot blues. You personally don't report bots because you feel CCP should autodetect them or something? Which is a personal choice not an alliance policy. Scn B) The rumor that Goons actively discourage members from reporting blue bot activities. Or say that Goon bots help goons so they should not be reported. Which one is more correct?
I am against shooting a blue bot.
I do not posses, nor does anyone in my alliance, the tools to detect a bot. That is CCP's job.
A) We shoot blues all the time in Fatal Ascension, we've become quite known for it and encourage it. It keeps our friends on their toes (/troll). However, with bots, yes, it's CCP's job to detect them. Not the player's. I have no defined way to know for sure that the person I'm shooting is a bot or a really efficient ratter with blinders on.
B) MANY null sec alliances do not encourage reporting bots as we are brotherhoods in nullsec. We are groups of people who work together to accomplish goals. Those goals diminish when we start sending out witch hunts on our own pilots.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Andski
GoonWaffe
3181
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Posted - 2012.03.17 11:33:00 -
[42] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:I can understand not shooting blue bots (You cant be 100 percent sure I guess) Yet you are not saying you actively discourage bot reporting are you?
Let me put it in another way.
Scn A) Goons just say don't shoot blues. You personally don't report bots because you feel CCP should autodetect them or something? Which is a personal choice not an alliance policy.
Scn B) The rumor that Goons actively discourage members from reporting blue bot activities. Or say that Goon bots help goons so they should not be reported.
Which one is more correct?
Ask yourself how we'd enforce a rule against reporting blue bots. "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Endeavour Starfleet
705
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Posted - 2012.03.18 03:15:00 -
[43] - Quote
Andski wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:I can understand not shooting blue bots (You cant be 100 percent sure I guess) Yet you are not saying you actively discourage bot reporting are you?
Let me put it in another way.
Scn A) Goons just say don't shoot blues. You personally don't report bots because you feel CCP should autodetect them or something? Which is a personal choice not an alliance policy.
Scn B) The rumor that Goons actively discourage members from reporting blue bot activities. Or say that Goon bots help goons so they should not be reported.
Which one is more correct? Ask yourself how we'd enforce a rule against reporting blue bots.
Well I would assume you could not unless your goons were dumb enough to state they had reported a bot. Yet I am not asking about enforcement. Just if it is stated. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1931
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 06:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Just if it is stated.
Yes it is.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Endeavour Starfleet
705
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 08:32:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Just if it is stated. Yes it is.
Thank you for being clear on the subject.
Could you please remove that policy? No need to discourage those who care to report right? I accept that actually working to report bots sucks so no issues being neutral. It's just the stated do not report is kinda bad don't you think? |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1931
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 08:59:00 -
[46] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Could you please remove that policy?
Nope. It is CCP's job to enforce their own rules.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Endeavour Starfleet
705
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Posted - 2012.03.18 09:16:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Could you please remove that policy? Nope. It is CCP's job to enforce their own rules.
I understand job but why actively discourage people from reporting blues? I mean I can understand saying "we don't care either way" but "Do not report" is kinda bad isn't it? |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1931
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 09:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Could you please remove that policy? Nope. It is CCP's job to enforce their own rules. I understand job but why actively discourage people from reporting blues? I mean I can understand saying "we don't care either way" but "Do not report" is kinda bad isn't it?
Right after the "report bot" feature was put into the game we had an incident where some members of a friendly alliance misunderstood the ratting rights system we have in place and took exception to a Goon who was in local with them. They all reported him as a bot thinking they could abuse the new system to free up their precious belts.
The Goon in question was docked and had been for several hours.
The botting rules were put in place by CCP and enforcement is their responsibility.
None of this means that Goonswarm is "supporting RTM(lol) operations".
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Endeavour Starfleet
705
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 09:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP has stated that abuse of report botting will be handled. Was this docked pilot banned or had action taken against?
If no do you know if the people who did the reporting were responded to by ccp? Temp bans or the like? |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1932
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 09:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:CCP has stated that abuse of report botting will be handled. Was this docked pilot banned or had action taken against?
If no do you know if the people who did the reporting were responded to by ccp? Temp bans or the like?
CCP doesn't comment on actions taken against people who abuse their game. But I'm sure you'll agree that in a coalition of our size it's easier to just let CCP handle the enforcement of their own rules.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
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Raven Ether
Republic University Minmatar Republic
110
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 09:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:RTM = Real Time Machine? Right To Mate? Red Trains Mummy? Rub The Mittani?
It's on purpose, like the we are feed up thread. Free bumps from comments like yours.
**** Bots |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
945
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 09:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote: But I'm sure you'll agree that in a coalition of our size it's easier to just let CCP handle the enforcement of their own rules.
The irony being that when the little bees and their pets go on a griefing rampage it's "for the good of the game because we're getting rid of bots".
Go back to your little hidy hole and let CCP take care of it. Or do something about it. Just stop looking the other way when it's one of your blues.
Do something constructive like start a war. God only knows, the economy needs one.
Mr Epeen
Me too!-á I ate one sour, too! |
Endeavour Starfleet
705
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 10:01:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:CCP has stated that abuse of report botting will be handled. Was this docked pilot banned or had action taken against?
If no do you know if the people who did the reporting were responded to by ccp? Temp bans or the like? CCP doesn't comment on actions taken against people who abuse their game. But I'm sure you'll agree that in a coalition of our size it's easier to just let CCP handle the enforcement of their own rules.
I will agree that the situation is indeed complicated. You could also I guess interpret your stance as "We let the spies in our midist do the reporting instead" Perhaps? |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1936
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 11:45:00 -
[54] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:The irony being that when the little bees and their pets go on a griefing rampage it's "for the good of the game because we're getting rid of bots".
People say this just to troll you. Besides we don't go on griefing rampages since griefing is against the ToS.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1936
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 11:48:00 -
[55] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:CCP has stated that abuse of report botting will be handled. Was this docked pilot banned or had action taken against?
If no do you know if the people who did the reporting were responded to by ccp? Temp bans or the like? CCP doesn't comment on actions taken against people who abuse their game. But I'm sure you'll agree that in a coalition of our size it's easier to just let CCP handle the enforcement of their own rules. I will agree that the situation is indeed complicated. You could also I guess interpret your stance as "We let the spies in our midist do the reporting instead" Perhaps?
You could interpret our stance that way if you still have no clue what our stance is I guess. You're trying to over-complicate the issue for some reason...I'm assuming you have some silly agenda. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
349
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 11:52:00 -
[56] - Quote
Well, I guess I'm glad I left the alliance who was in cahoots with that aforementioned alliance of supposed botters.
Fly Safe, Die Hard
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Cain Blazed
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 13:04:00 -
[57] - Quote
Yee, goons like their bots! And when you try report them to ccp, nothing happens. |
Basileus Volkan
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
102
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 14:32:00 -
[58] - Quote
Members of a group overlooking offenses from their fellow members due to esprit de corp? Like, for example, highsec miners happily mining among bots without reporting them? Will I ever. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
887
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 14:39:00 -
[59] - Quote
Caldari Citizen20110707 wrote:Goon Bot policy: Dont shoot
Goons are confirmed to be blue to biggest RTM alliance in eve; shadow of XXDEATHXX
This song was made 4U
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Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
637
|
Posted - 2012.03.18 14:48:00 -
[60] - Quote
Taihbea wrote:Caldari Citizen20110707 wrote:Goon Bot policy: Dont shoot
Goons are confirmed to be blue to biggest RTM alliance in eve; shadow of XXDEATHXX It's always dark under a lamp and considering that CCP literally is cooperating (all those posts about goon working for CCP) with them then what do you expect? Information is the key and once you have a "loyal" insider you learn how to avoid things. All thos hi sec what ever they do is just a smoke screen to get as much ISK as possible befoe the ultimate banhammer hits. Look at all auction portals. Somebody selling 99 ******* plexes got to be in a large alliance. And if you are quet about it you usually get a share. **** all of them but what can you do? CCP sucks at many levels and they don't seem to care.
this guy has it spot on
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