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DO NOT USE THE CHARACTER BAZAAR - SCAMMING IS ALLOWED

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SeNsaToR Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:14:00 - [1] Edited by: SeNsaToR on 02/07/2008 02:21:53 Edited by: SeNsaToR on 02/07/2008 02:21:37 Well as some have you may seen I've been scammed by Through Actions aka Colbie Yoshi. Topic here - http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=802698 Anyway, no big deal, I petitioned a GM for ISK re-imbursement: Me: I have rightfully sent 1.7 billion ISK after a character auction was finished and the seller has not transfered the character to my account. I've been waiting for about 4 days and the seller has made no attempt in contacting me. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=802698&page=1 I would appreciate if you could reimburse the 1.7 billion ISK. GM: Hi SeNsaToR, Thank you for contacting customer support. Since it has been a while, I would like to ask if this remains as an issue for we can not open the link you gave in petition. Best regards, GM Valentine The EVE Online Customer Support Team Me: This link is directly to Eve Online forums - http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=802698&page=1 If you can not open it how would I approach being scammed through the Character Bazaar as a buyer? How do I get my money back? GM: Hi, I have checked our log and regret to tell you that I'm afraid we are unable to help you in this case as it's under normal gameplay. Please pay more attention in the future. As your loss is under normal game play, we could not reimburse this. We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you and wish you a speedy recovery. Best regards, GM Valentine The EVE Online Customer Support Team --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So apparently being scammed through the Character Bazaar is normal gameplay, well go ahead sellers, scam away, because it is allowed!
Miss Apple	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:19:00 - [2] awesome.. guess my mate can be unbanned now right CCP?? CCP ROCKS!
WhiteT Subversive Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:21:00 - [3] Edited by: WhiteT on 02/07/2008 02:21:31 wth, surely not :-/. Don't tell us we're going to need a secure character transfer mechanism like GTCs. And on an off note, are you allowed to post petition correspondence like that?
SeNsaToR Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:23:00 - [4] Edited by: SeNsaToR on 02/07/2008 02:23:55 Originally by: WhiteT And on an off note, are you allowed to post petition correspondence like that? I couldn't give a stuff honestly, looks like I gotta tip over a few rubbish bins and urinate in CCP's lemonades to get my ISK re-imbursed.
WhiteT Subversive Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:26:00 - [5] Originally by: SeNsaToR I couldn't give a stuff honestly, looks like I gotta tip over a few rubbish bins and urinate in CCP's lemonades to get my ISK re-imbursed. I doubt it, I'm still pretty sure character scamming is a bannable offense last I checked :-/.
Spineker Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:26:00 - [6] You basically sent 1.7 billion to a stranger. If he had accepted the amount then CCP would have done something. Just sending the cash without a confimation that you won well might as well send it to anyone. It sucks that people are like that but technically CCP is going by the rules. I would be ****ed off too but you have to pay attention the details.
TarevMST	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:26:00 - [7] its your own fault mate you sent the isk before he had confirmed you had won
WhiteT Subversive Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:27:00 - [8] Originally by: Spineker You basically sent 1.7 billion to a stranger. Ah, I just tried to re-read the post from before but it's telling me the thread doesn't exist anymore :-/. If the guy hasn't posted confirming he'll accept the ISK and that you've won then yea, you may have just as well sent a random stranger the ISK. The character receiving the ISK needs to post and confirm.
Spineker Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:30:00 - [9] Edited by: Spineker on 02/07/2008 02:30:29 He had a reserve and no buyout. I sold one as a sell with buyout. Dude says I take him. I say done. He sends isk that is a sell that is bound by the rules Sen said: Auction ended. ISK Sent, awaiting character. Without waiting for the guy to say ok Sen won. Sorry bro doesn't work like that.
SeNsaToR Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:32:00 - [10] The person recieving the isk was Colbie Yoshi, it said on the first post. There is no rule that states the person has to post to confrim the ISK goes to him. The fact is I won the auction because he didn't contact me telling me that the ISK didn't meet his standards.
WhiteT Subversive Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:36:00 - [11] Originally by: SeNsaToR The person recieving the isk was Colbie Yoshi, it said on the first post. There is no rule that states the person has to post to confrim the ISK goes to him. Wrong-ish, it states: "The character who will be receiving the ISK after the sale of the character must be listed in the thread." - in the stickied 'Character Bazaar Rules and Resources Thread'. Colbie Yoshi never posted on that thread.
Spineker Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:37:00 - [12] You didn't win anything you made a bid. There is no way in hell CCP is going to make someone sell their character just because you make a bid. I am not trying to be an ass just help explain. It sucks if it were me I would have sent your cash back but then I don't care for cheating people out of their money because they made a mistake. But that doesn't mean CCP condones and supports scamming in here. I am sure the GM wished he could help you but he couldn't I am sure of that. You just as well sent the money to a random character they will not pull isk for those mistakes.
SeNsaToR Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:43:00 - [13] Well I made one mistake which was Colbie Yosh not posting in the thread, the one you state Spineker isn't even a rule. So if the buyer makes one miniscule mistake the seller can essentially scam the buyer. Awesome rules CCP, keep up the good work!
StopDropandROFL	Posted - 2008.07.02 02:47:00 - [14] wow....good going ccp...I do find some sort of amusement out of this however
Blood Fart	Posted - 2008.07.02 03:17:00 - [15] Um, so what if the seller has gone on a holiday with his Mom, or his kid, or has a life and doesnt tune into eve online to see if his auction is over, or even better, what if he made a deal and sold the toon and then suspended his acct, or maybe he just got run over by a steam roller. Character trading is usually very safe as long as BOTH, yes BOTH party's are communicating, and not just one dumb assed newb thinking he just scooped a great deal and blindly sends 1.7 billion worth of probably bought isk to a stranger who he has never spoken to. Players that actually work for their ISK don't usually part with it so freely, maybe CCP should have a very close look at your wallet eh sport, now shut up and stop whining. ....
SeNsaToR Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.07.02 04:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Blood Fart Um, so what if the seller has gone on a holiday with his Mom, or his kid, or has a life and doesnt tune into eve online to see if his auction is over, or even better, what if he made a deal and sold the toon and then suspended his acct, or maybe he just got run over by a steam roller. Character trading is usually very safe as long as BOTH, yes BOTH party's are communicating, and not just one dumb assed newb thinking he just scooped a great deal and blindly sends 1.7 billion worth of probably bought isk to a stranger who he has never spoken to. Players that actually work for their ISK don't usually part with it so freely, maybe CCP should have a very close look at your wallet eh sport, now shut up and stop whining. .... Lol so you're accusing me of buying my ISK. Yeah, because I totally can't make 1.7 billion isk in 4 years dumbass. Go mine some veldspar newfag.
DeJaView	Posted - 2008.07.02 04:12:00 - [17] Sorry dude, a hidden reserve pretty much means that unless that guy says Auction won by you, the "contract" isn't signed by both parties. It's an expensive lesson, but you'll never make the same mistake again.
Box Kicker	Posted - 2008.07.02 04:15:00 - [18] lol...so wait, you just sent the guy money for a bid without actually knowing if you won? LOLOLOLOLOL
SeNsaToR Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.07.02 04:30:00 - [19] Originally by: DeJaView Sorry dude, a hidden reserve pretty much means that unless that guy says Auction won by you, the "contract" isn't signed by both parties. It's an expensive lesson, but you'll never make the same mistake again. And this rule is stated where? I have no common sense, the rule isn't stated in the stickied topic therefore it doesn't count.
Blood Fart	Posted - 2008.07.02 04:30:00 - [20] Lawls, c,mon over here and let me give you a guiding hand on how the game is played newb, I think you not only bought the ISK you gave away, but I also think you bought the toon that you are posting with NEWB. NO FOUR YEAR OLD PLAYER WOULD EVER MAKE SUCH AN EPIC NEWB MISTAKE, and then try to blame such stupidity on CCP when the very, very, very simple rules to trading toons are pasted everywhere for you (YOU DUMB ASSED NEWB) to read, re-read and re-a-freeking-gain before yo send ISK to a seller. Now with that said, would you like to bid on one of my toons?
SeNsaToR Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.07.02 04:31:00 - [21] Originally by: Box Kicker lol...so wait, you just sent the guy money for a bid without actually knowing if you won? LOLOLOLOLOL Yeah I figured I won when no one else bid after I did.
WhiteT	Posted - 2008.07.02 04:34:00 - [22] Edited by: WhiteT on 02/07/2008 04:34:57 Originally by: SeNsaToR Yeah I figured I won when no one else bid after I did. How did you figure you had won when you have no idea of what the hidden reserve may have been? it may have been 2b ISK or 20b ISK for all anyone knows. Bad luck on making this mistake and losing a bit of ISK, I'm sure it wont happen again :)
SeNsaToR Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.07.02 08:13:00 - [23] Originally by: Blood Fart Lawls, c,mon over here and let me give you a guiding hand on how the game is played newb, I think you not only bought the ISK you gave away, but I also think you bought the toon that you are posting with NEWB. NO FOUR YEAR OLD PLAYER WOULD EVER MAKE SUCH AN EPIC NEWB MISTAKE, and then try to blame such stupidity on CCP when the very, very, very simple rules to trading toons are pasted everywhere for you (YOU DUMB ASSED NEWB) to read, re-read and re-a-freeking-gain before yo send ISK to a seller. Now with that said, would you like to bid on one of my toons? I made one mistake, according to the stickied rules. According to you four year old players aren't human because they never make mistakes. c,mon.
SeNsaToR Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.07.02 08:14:00 - [24] Originally by: WhiteT Edited by: WhiteT on 02/07/2008 04:37:00 Originally by: SeNsaToR Yeah I figured I won when no one else bid after I did. Bad luck on making this mistake and losing a bit of ISK, I'm sure it wont happen again :) Yah, probably won't happen again considering I'm quitting the game. I have had my doubts about CCP but this is the last straw.
Amanda Wilkins Caldari Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2008.07.02 08:33:00 - [25] Originally by: SeNsaToR Yah, probably won't happen again considering I'm quitting the game. I have had my doubts about CCP but this is the last straw. CCP did not make the mistake. You did. Sad to see you go over what was a mistake - would you also blame CCP if you happened to pay 1.7 bill for an item worth 1.7 mill in the market in Jita? Probably... Amanda Amanda Wilkins CEO of Dromedary, Goat, Albatross and Fish Protector of the Bunnies of Stain ... because we DGAF!
Line Out	Posted - 2008.07.02 08:36:00 - [26] Originally by: SeNsaToR Originally by: WhiteT Edited by: WhiteT on 02/07/2008 04:37:00 Originally by: SeNsaToR Yeah I figured I won when no one else bid after I did. Bad luck on making this mistake and losing a bit of ISK, I'm sure it wont happen again :) Yah, probably won't happen again considering I'm quitting the game. I have had my doubts about CCP but this is the last straw. Aww ur gonna quit the game? nooez :( Oh and btw, its your mistake. If you are so open and charitable about sending 1.7bill to a stranger who hasnt event confirmed you as a winner then its your fault for being a dumbass. Blaming CCP for stupidity on your part and calling it a last straw wont get you any pity from CCP or us. Next time, keep your money safe, like in my wallet or something :P
IngenWolf	Posted - 2008.07.02 09:04:00 - [27] i farted......sry bout that.
Hubrub	Posted - 2008.07.02 09:22:00 - [28] You where not scammed. You sent someone Isk by mistake because you didn't know how an auction works. There is a difference.
Cloudd	Posted - 2008.07.02 09:56:00 - [29] Solution is simple as hell. You win an auction. Send isk to an designated CCP representative. CCP transfers character to new designated account automatically during dt. Isk sent to seller by CCP. Safe as Sinterklaas his old butt<period>
Empress Emea	Posted - 2008.07.02 09:59:00 - [30] A CCP Representitive needs to delete this Topic. It may cause "new comers" to believe the Character Bazaar is not safe, hence reducing the possibilty of Players successfully selling their Characters. SeNsaToR - Next time you do anything in EvE, READ all info provided. Be it, Contracts, Mission Objectives, Market Orders, EULA, etc. The info is not just there to fill the empty space on your screen.
KappaRho Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.07.02 10:30:00 - [31] Can I have your stuff?
Scamalt Horrid Horrid Games	Posted - 2008.07.02 11:44:00 - [32] Edited by: Scamalt Horrid on 02/07/2008 11:44:56 Originally by: KappaRho Can I have your stuff? Hehe, I just wanted to say that myself :p And as a precaution to new players, you really DO HAVE TO READ CAREFULLY all information on any subject that you want to participate in, be it a contract, or a character transfer, or anything else in this game. This is not WoW! . The situation from this thread was NOT A SCAM, but simply a mistake from the player who sent his ISK without a confirmation of winning the auction.
Mr McCargo The Golden Circle of Wealthy Entrepreneurs	Posted - 2008.07.02 12:21:00 - [33] Cool down and think about what you did, and see if there really was no error in your doings. Anyways, cursing CCP and other players with profanity won't help, that's for sure. - Mr C
ArwenUndomiel Exanimo Inc	Posted - 2008.07.02 20:28:00 - [34] Wow good reading! I along with many others believe that you made a grave mistake. Sorry to see it happen but it did. I hope it works out for you but if it doesn't it was totally your fault. __________ EXAN is Recruiting
Haldeeman Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.07.02 21:16:00 - [35] Edited by: Haldeeman on 02/07/2008 21:18:06 In all honesty, i think this is a bit ****. if CCP is providing the functionality within the external (i.e. out of game) mechanisims of the game to provide character transfers, its should be modulated and monitored to provide a safe and secure way to allow secure and safe transfers of characters without hiding behind terms and conditions of what appears to be, to be brutally honest - a lack luster and un-catered for (but yet endorsed by CCP) transaction. As in - if they were to make it so that if you wanted to sell your character it should be implemented within the eve-o website. Just an idea - maybe in this fashion. Name of character to sell: (drop menu) Reserve value in isk: (enter value) Buyout value in isk: (enter value) Min char value in isk: (enter value) From that the format is all open for everyone to see, no hiding behind 'he didnt post such and such to indicate you had won'. Everyone of you that posted a diatribe of 'you should of read x, y, and z' would feel gutted if it was you - its undisbutable. CCP should really understand that whilst the mechanics of the game allow for people to scam within the game etc (which i enjoy) the outside mechanics based on the forums, forum transcations (real money VS. gtc which they endorse and proactively market) should be monitored and regulated to ensure this sort of thing is VERY clear cut and easy to understand. It is apparent that the rules are very transparent and able to be bent and/or broken at a whim. Especially if they give the ability for real money to be spent on isk and then re-traded on a virtual asset such as an eve toon. A method to stop this sort of thing happening again should be developed. I would like to hear a devs' opinion on this.
Ben Bitdiddle	Posted - 2008.07.02 21:25:00 - [36] Edited by: Ben Bitdiddle on 02/07/2008 21:25:35 Sensator, you are probably pretty upset, but consider this: You just lost 1.7B ISK. Game currency. Play Money. In the real world, the scammers are a lot more ruthless, the scams are a lot more subtle, and the loss is a lot more painful. Just turn on the news and look for those poor fools who bought a house in the last two years and signed some stupid ARM without reading the contract, not knowing that their interest rate was about to skyrocket. Some of them are going to lose their house, and declare bankruptcy. I hope you are upset enough about this that you remember it, and someday when you are making a major purchase or signing up for a credit card or something, you will have learned from this. That's what games are all about. It's a sandbox with no (real) consequences and if EVE has taught you to read and understand the contract then this will be a good experience for you. Specifically note this: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=552381 Quote: When buying and selling characters, please note that by confirming the trade via EVEmail, you ensure that the facts of the matter are documented, should any later disputes arise that require GM attention. A simple confirmation e-mail from the seller is all you would have needed to avoid getting scammed.
Trakker freelancers inc	Posted - 2008.07.02 22:48:00 - [37] Honestly ... well auctioning charaters aint the same as auction stuff on contracts you cant just bid the highest and the stuff is automaticly yours. I have sold a bit of charaters so far and honestly dude it was your own fault. Even so read the rules im sure it tells you how to trade the safest. And i think 1 rule is something like this " The seller can back out of a sale when ever he likes even after a b/o has been offerd etc ". Hope ya learned from this. Dont send isk unless you get confirmation from the seller its simple. btw plz gm's just delete this post will ya its a eyesore... thx
Dr Rhinehart	Posted - 2008.07.03 11:27:00 - [38] This is an excellent idea in my opinion. The type of system is already in place with GTCs and I would've thought it wouldn't be that difficult to implement an automated system for transfering chars. I've personally been involved in an incident revolving around a char sale in which the person sent me the isk without confirming anything and then proceeded to lie to a GM about what had been agreed. This led to them being perma banned. All of that would've been avoided if an automated system was in place, which would also save the GMs a lot of time in having to sort out messes such as these. Originally by: Haldeeman Edited by: Haldeeman on 02/07/2008 21:18:06 In all honesty, i think this is a bit ****. if CCP is providing the functionality within the external (i.e. out of game) mechanisims of the game to provide character transfers, its should be modulated and monitored to provide a safe and secure way to allow secure and safe transfers of characters without hiding behind terms and conditions of what appears to be, to be brutally honest - a lack luster and un-catered for (but yet endorsed by CCP) transaction. As in - if they were to make it so that if you wanted to sell your character it should be implemented within the eve-o website. Just an idea - maybe in this fashion. Name of character to sell: (drop menu) Reserve value in isk: (enter value) Buyout value in isk: (enter value) Min char value in isk: (enter value) From that the format is all open for everyone to see, no hiding behind 'he didnt post such and such to indicate you had won'. Everyone of you that posted a diatribe of 'you should of read x, y, and z' would feel gutted if it was you - its undisbutable. CCP should really understand that whilst the mechanics of the game allow for people to scam within the game etc (which i enjoy) the outside mechanics based on the forums, forum transcations (real money VS. gtc which they endorse and proactively market) should be monitored and regulated to ensure this sort of thing is VERY clear cut and easy to understand. It is apparent that the rules are very transparent and able to be bent and/or broken at a whim. Especially if they give the ability for real money to be spent on isk and then re-traded on a virtual asset such as an eve toon. A method to stop this sort of thing happening again should be developed. I would like to hear a devs' opinion on this.
Mixed Signals Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.07.03 12:14:00 - [39] Tbh, how many people actually get scammed out of characters on a daily basis? This is probably the first time im reading "scam" in CB and even then its a false alarm. If someone is trying to scam the sale generally doesnt even go through. Yes there will be execptions, 5 maybe 10 people will get scammed. Seriously i believe that if someone gets scammed in EVE then it is their own fault. I know this personally because i have been scammed as well, and i found no reason to blame someone else for my foolishness and blind faith on a stranger, atleast i learned not to do it ever again. :) CCP doesnt really need a system like with GTC's for character transfers. GTC's can be faked when eve-mailed or manipulated in many ways. Characters can be confirmed via lots of methods for example a Full API if you are really paranoid or just overtly careful. :)
Gellente Spy	Posted - 2008.07.03 12:53:00 - [40] I was scammed once on CB but because I'd done everything right I got my isk back. I do feel sorry for the OP but the whine in this thread is about 80% proof. You sent isk when nothing had been confirmed, therefore you lost it. It sucks but that's life in EVE. If you give the majority of players in this game even half a chance they will rip you off before you blink. You played straight into this without any co-ercment whatsoever which means you must be very easily led. Swap all your stuff for a WoW account?
Paul LikesMen	Posted - 2008.07.03 14:21:00 - [41] Quit complaining CCP can't help you for a stupid mistake you made Mine some veldspar or rat a shit ton of sancha spawns and don't complain
Daemien Murdoc	Posted - 2008.07.03 15:02:00 - [42] Approx week ago i had auction on my char My char auction I noticed that Mightymaxx who place only bid on my char, had placed bid on your character too. Bid on my char 2008.06.20 16:42:00 On your char 2008.06.20 22:55:00 Two bids on same day. Its a bit odd. Anyway, i did send him polite message that he (Mightymaxx) won my auction and that im waiting for him to contact me. So far i havent heard a single word from him. Might be totally unrelated to your incident, or maybe not... Who knows... Maybe he was hit by steamroller...
queen iverz	Posted - 2008.07.04 04:05:00 - [43] Edited by: queen iverz on 04/07/2008 04:10:50 Originally by: SeNsaToR Well I made one mistake which was Colbie Yosh not posting in the thread, the one you state Spineker isn't even a rule. So if the buyer makes one miniscule mistake the seller can essentially scam the buyer. Awesome rules CCP, keep up the good work! Open ur eyes dude... hehe i dunno why im bothering with posting on this tread... but u obviously wont acknowledge the fact that it was your mistake. U made a bid on the character, for all you know his account might be frozen due to lack of payment.. or maybe he doesnt even have the RL money to do the transfer... (not saying that this is the issue but nonetheless this can happend... therfor u dont give the isk before the char have confirmed that he accept the bid!) you prolly wanted the char real bad and just sent isk as soon as the auction ended hoping he wouldnt have any choice then since u had allrdy payed, (he did have a hidden reserve). IF he had said "oki bid accepted awaiting isk" You would have a valid argument.. IT says in the FAQ that EVERYTHING that has to do with character trade, eigther have it written in evemails OR here on the forum. IF u buy it trough ICQ/MSN/EMAIL or in anyway where u dont have something concrete to show the GM (like in your case) ur ****ed:/ sorry but thats the way it is. EDIT: someone actually have the part i mean quoted from the faq^^ if u only read it:/ anyways sorry for ur loss now move on:)
Vayi Mory Minmatar venator vestigium	Posted - 2008.07.04 04:26:00 - [44] the point has been made clear multiple times now. the sad point is you just gave a him some nice isk as a gift. learn from it. and please stop bumping this tread up i hate caps lock topics and even more if they are like this. ----- in vicis of bellum lex cado silens I respect forum mods so I aid them
Psychotic Penguin Gallente BLACK-FLAG	Posted - 2008.07.04 06:34:00 - [45] how about you learn to read the rules, http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=552381 it states that the character to receive the isk has to post in the thread and that the deal has to be confirmed through eve mail BEFORE transferring isk or character. in case you are in doubt 'confirm' means an eve mail with all the details of the trade is sent from one party to the other and then responded to by the other party before the trade goes ahead (exactly like in real life except for it being paper instead of eve mail). ____________________________________________________ Reality is for those who have no imagination.

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