| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
nVChicky
   |
Posted - 2008.07.02 16:11:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Jade Constantine
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/07/2008 15:00:55
Originally by: Ecky Ptang
As it is at the moment, it seems a corp in a militia gets all the drawbacks without any advantages towards hostile actions from player corps. They are restricted in space and dont have an alliance to back them up, sometimes when just starting out a lot of "noob" playerbase to. Then there is the hostile alliance with experienced players, an alliance with solid income and badass ships, unrestricted in space.
Well your "advantage" in having a corp is:
A: corp channel
B: corp hangers
C: corp roles and admin
D: corp reputation and name
E: corp tax rate
F: corp mail
G: corp ability to wardec
etc etc etc. If you don't care about all that stuff you should simply stay in the militia as a default foot soldier.
The disadvantage is that you can be wardecced. Ultimately its up to your leaders to decide if this disadvantage is outweighed by the advantages of the corp entity. They need to make a decision on whether to keep the corp or not. But this is gameplay - not arguing for changes that protect you from wardecs and player consequence.
Quote:
My answer to that is to add a faction penalty to the faction the killed player belongs to for the killer. This results in several things: players that keep attacking militia's will find them unwanted in the corresponding faction space and corps inside the same militia wardecking each other will sooner or later find themselves outside the militia. Wouldn't you respond as a faction if your militia keeps getting harassed by the same people? Hell i would kick them out of my space on every opportunity. Just to serve the eve golden rule: every action has its consequences, even for those griefers, unlike as it is now.
Its a bad suggestion as I explain in the post above. It will make the miltias into an "anti-wardec" shell of use to anyone wishing to make it more difficult for other players to take matters into their own hands and conclude feuds and vendettas and all the good stuff that makes Eve - Eve.
A much better idea: which was something we touched upon in the Iceland CSM meeting was to make "buy-in" on 3rd party wars much easier.
I would support a system where by the militia kept a list of all incoming active wardecs against its corps and allowed ANY milita corp to join one of these wars completely FREE just by clicking a "help militia ally" button and waiting out the 24 hour timer. (with another 24 hour timer to withdraw the help of course). This would allow players in the Militia to aid player corps against attacks from player corps and would hopefully address the issue in a way that encourages pvp and consequence in Eve online.
This is what we should be looking for. Ways for players to involve themselves in political disputes and provide consequence to the actions of other players.
The above quote hopefully outlines the current situation in FW with regards to war declerations and a possible solution.
PvP needs to be kept at everybody's foremost thoughts in regards to EvE and FW.
As it stands non-FW Player Corps have the ability to declare war on FW Corps.
However, FW Corps are unable to form alliances or ask for aid from other FW Corps in their fight for survival, yet the non-FW Corp may add more corporations to the war within an alliance.
Therefore, a simple allowance for FW Corps to aid other FW Corps at war with non-FW Corps free of charge would allow the in game mechanics of EvE for FW Players to again run smoothly.
|
Atiniir
Wyvern Sting
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 16:31:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
...
I would support a system where by the militia kept a list of all incoming active wardecs against its corps and allowed ANY milita corp to join one of these wars completely FREE just by clicking a "help militia ally" button and waiting out the 24 hour timer. (with another 24 hour timer to withdraw the help of course). This would allow players in the Militia to aid player corps against attacks from player corps and would hopefully address the issue in a way that encourages pvp and consequence in Eve online.
This, I believe, is an acceptable compromise. I think a lot of people are in agreement that there needs to be a change, but there's a lot of ideas on what that change should be. I think this is one of the better changes as it does not upset the way things currently work and simply adds an option for others in the militia.
/Supported
|
nVChicky
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 16:50:00 -
[3]
Obviously I support it but it didn't register my support........
|
Sakos Vartrow
First Caldari Regiment
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 16:53:00 -
[4]
I agree, FW corps should be able to get support for wardecs.
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 17:01:00 -
[5]
Very happy to support this. Allows the militia corps better options to defend their allies and widens the sphere of pvp conflict to involve more people. Completely in favor and assuming this ISSUE gets a decent number of supports I'll raise it to the CSM as an issue for formal voting.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Nitalya
Amarr
Das Reich.
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 17:16:00 -
[6]
thi biggest problem i see with allwing corps in militias to be wardec is pretty easy to pick out.... what stops mega alliances from comeing down and killing all FW members... cause lets face facts here milita gangs are nt as well orginized or equiped as alliance gangs. cause we dont have access to 0.0 resouces. nor do we have the ability to have a stable Chain of command being most players are in a noob corp.
i understand that members of alliance are upset that FW did not include them. but to be honest Alliance have enough of eve didicated to there ejoyment and what they want to to in eve. more than half the regions in eve are dedicated to alllowing alliance to create there own empires control there own space and engage in politics with other alliances around them.
i think ccp saying if alliances want part of FW they they can disband and join as corps. isnt the answer but really isnt that hard to do.. im sure some of you remember before tha lliance system was in place some how people managed to orginize and do fine withough the alliance system.
the right comprimise here is somewhere between not allowing corps in milieas to be wardecd by outside orginizations and keeping people from hideing in milieas to exploit that.
now my idea isnt perfect but its an idea in the right direction and im open to honest constructive critisism........ why not put a min VP or kill amount on corps in FW per week so if your corp joins the militia and does notheing to help the war effort after a week or two they shold be made to leave and not allowed back for a week or so.
i dont agree with any solution that allowes player alliances any part in FW as is. i believe that they have no place in FW. and i understand there are factin RP alliances and i feel ther pain but if they where true RPers they wouldnt have issue with disbanding there alliance to join the militia (see above about how alliance did work once before without a offical system)
|
Kovid
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 17:20:00 -
[7]
Personally I'd like it to be fleshed out or explained. Buy-ins, would they cost any money?
It's worth restating what CCP already explained as to consider what basis they had developed them on to suggest changes if necessary.
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Edited by: CCP Dionysus on 19/05/2008 18:55:13
Originally by: Elaron
1) Will it be possible for entities (that is, corporations and alliances) who are not part of the formal Factional Warfare mechanic to declare war on the Militia corporations themselves?
2) Will it be possible for entities (that is, corporations and alliances) who are not part of the formal Factional Warfare mechanic to declare war on player corporations that are members of the Militias?
3) Will it be possible for player corporations who are signed up for the factional Militias to issue war declarations on other player entities, signed up or not?
Hokeydokey.
Simple clear responses.
1) No. They are NPC corps, and like any NPC corps you cannot declare war.
2) Yes. They are still normal player corps. They are not technically joining an alliance, and dont gain the "protection" that being in an alliance gives you. You will have to pay normal wardec costs etc though.
3) Similarly to above - yes.
|
nVChicky
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 17:23:00 -
[8]
As far as I can see it says 'FREE' and thats what we are voting for
|
Nitalya
Amarr
Das Reich.
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 17:26:00 -
[9]
i think any system that allows alliance any part in FW is wrong single corps cant claim sov can they?
that being said corps in militias should not be imune form wardecs but anyone wishing to wardec a milita corp should be KOS to the faction navies of that militia aswell as gang members should be able to assist members of there gang being attacked by war targets that are not militia releated.
|
Ayrianna Nagaya
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 17:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nitalya
i think any system that allows alliance any part in FW is wrong single corps cant claim sov can they?
that being said corps in militias should not be imune form wardecs but anyone wishing to wardec a milita corp should be KOS to the faction navies of that militia aswell as gang members should be able to assist members of there gang being attacked by war targets that are not militia releated.
I 100% agree with this.
I think the only change that is needed it for when an alliance decs a FW corp then that factions NPC navy sets that alliance KOS.
Fair enough?
|
Kovid
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 17:33:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Kovid on 02/07/2008 17:34:19
Originally by: nVChicky
As far as I can see it says 'FREE' and thats what we are voting for
Damn I rolled snake eyes on reading comprehension skill test on that one. The mechanics are a bit different with militias are they not? Corps can leave them quicker than alliances. Make sure it's thought it thoroughly. We already have lots of people moving back and forth between to avoid war decs. I am just saying people could be joining and leaving and joining again to exploit the mechanics. Militia members don't have roles. There could be potential for exploitation there. I'll have to look into that and then I can decide on the issue.
|
nVChicky
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 17:40:00 -
[12]
Edited by: nVChicky on 02/07/2008 17:40:13
I Didn't start the topic for banter but for a solution in a positive direction.
We can't have everything and I would personally settle for this
Just because a Corp is in FW means they are not immune to aspects of War Dec's therefore they should have the ability to aid from other FW Corps as the non-FW Corp can aid its attack with other non-FW Corp.
This isn't the end of the problem BUT will make 'fairer' gameplay.
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 17:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nitalya
thi biggest problem i see with allwing corps in militias to be wardec is pretty easy to pick out.... what stops mega alliances from comeing down and killing all FW members... cause lets face facts here milita gangs are nt as well orginized or equiped as alliance gangs. cause we dont have access to 0.0 resouces. nor do we have the ability to have a stable Chain of command being most players are in a noob corp.
i understand that members of alliance are upset that FW did not include them. but to be honest Alliance have enough of eve didicated to there ejoyment and what they want to to in eve. more than half the regions in eve are dedicated to alllowing alliance to create there own empires control there own space and engage in politics with other alliances around them.
i think ccp saying if alliances want part of FW they they can disband and join as corps. isnt the answer but really isnt that hard to do.. im sure some of you remember before tha lliance system was in place some how people managed to orginize and do fine withough the alliance system.
the right comprimise here is somewhere between not allowing corps in milieas to be wardecd by outside orginizations and keeping people from hideing in milieas to exploit that.
now my idea isnt perfect but its an idea in the right direction and im open to honest constructive critisism........ why not put a min VP or kill amount on corps in FW per week so if your corp joins the militia and does notheing to help the war effort after a week or two they shold be made to leave and not allowed back for a week or so.
i dont agree with any solution that allowes player alliances any part in FW as is. i believe that they have no place in FW. and i understand there are factin RP alliances and i feel ther pain but if they where true RPers they wouldnt have issue with disbanding there alliance to join the militia (see above about how alliance did work once before without a offical system)
I think you need a discussion thread elsewhere Nitalya. The op for this thread has proposed a solution and I think that should be basis of dicussion here. By all means come up with another proposal and start your own thread though - but you do risk derailing this one into nothingness if you aren't going to engage with substantive debate on the op.
Its always best if these Assembly Hall ISSUE threads stick with the topic in the OP.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Kelsin
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 17:52:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Kelsin on 02/07/2008 17:52:24
I like the idea of being able to opt-in as a participant in a wardec, as long as you are then beholden to the same rules - i.e. you can't opt-out again until the war ends.
Basically it's like standing up and saying "No, I'm Spartacus!" and tying your corp to the wardecced corp, so that the wardec now applies to you as well for no additional cost to anyone.
EDIT: oh yeah and I support it.
|
Nitalya
Amarr
Das Reich.
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 18:00:00 -
[15]
the biggest delima i see is a truly balanced system that keeps alliances out of FW. and please understand i get how much this sucks for RP alliances and the like. i would agree to a systme that does not allow corps into the militia before anything that makes it easy for alliances to take part. and not because i hate alliances. i think the best course of action for eve to to have some form of fleet pvp for newer players that does not have influence from outside sources and player politics. and ill explain why...
lets say alliance A get involved with amarr factoin well alliance B C D and E hate them for whatever reason so they all get involved with mimitar faction. now you have player politics and 0.0 alliance wars spilling out into empire wars between the npc factions.
what about allowing single player corps to wardec corps in the militia without any intervention from concord or faction navy and other milia corps.. but makeing corps in the militia imune to wars from alliances? this seems like a pretty fair comprimise
|
Lucai
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 20:03:00 -
[16]
Im all for choice and repercussions, so a yes from me.
Other solutions may be more optimal regarding wardecs imho(e.g. being allowed to wardec the whole militia, and only that), but they all create other problems (like mega-alliances hitting FW full-force), while i cant see big drawbacks here.
|
Anaalys Fluuterby
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 21:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
|
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 22:28:00 -
[18]
Pointless suggestion as the possibility is already there.
I see no reason why the wardecs for other militia corps should be free.
|
Hamfast
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 22:31:00 -
[19]
Silly question...
Player Corp (PC1) in a Player Alliance (PA1) gets War Decced by another Player Corp (PC2) in another Player Alliance (PA2)... What happens to the War Dec? is it on the Corp or the Alliance? Can those members of PA1 (and PA2) help in the war between PC1 and PC2?
It seems that if PC2 can only War Dec PA1 and not PC1, or of the War dec is in reality PA2 vs PA1, then the answer is to make the Faction Militia an "Alliance" that if you war Dec a Player Corp in it, you war dec the alliance... and pay that cost... you know, the one for a war dec on an alliance with 2 other wars (at least) already.
--------*****--------
Learn and be informed, because a Politicians worst nightmare is an informed voter...
So choose your CSM Candidates wisely
|
Marlana Eston
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 22:35:00 -
[20]
Nice proposal nVChicky. The militia should be able to help out those corps fighting for the war if they want to.
Another problem with FW as mentioned by Ulstan is that in hisec the FW corp and these friends that would help out are often having to fight npc navy while the wardeccing corp does not. Hopefully, someone brighter than myself can think of a way to correct that.
|
Jade Constantine
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 22:38:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Hamfast
Silly question...
Player Corp (PC1) in a Player Alliance (PA1) gets War Decced by another Player Corp (PC2) in another Player Alliance (PA2)... What happens to the War Dec? is it on the Corp or the Alliance? Can those members of PA1 (and PA2) help in the war between PC1 and PC2?
It seems that if PC2 can only War Dec PA1 and not PC1, or of the War dec is in reality PA2 vs PA1, then the answer is to make the Faction Militia an "Alliance" that if you war Dec a Player Corp in it, you war dec the alliance... and pay that cost... you know, the one for a war dec on an alliance with 2 other wars (at least) already.
I think a lot of people would be VERY happy to be able to wardec the militias. But there are some balance issues. Problem is the Militia entity IS not an alliance - its a different system. CCP specifically wanted to ensure that the militia npc entity was not wardeccable from outside faction warfare - where issues like this thread come from is a problem with corporations affiliating with the militia as corporations. It would be wrong on a fundamental to protect them from wardecs - but should it be easier for their militia corp mates to help them out?
I'd say yes. On the proviso it was a system akin to that described in the op.
CSM Manifesto 2008 | Destroy Outposts! |
Drykor
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.07.02 23:11:00 -
[22]
I'll vote for support, but CCP will have to look at locking down that war for the helping corp for a certain amount of time, so they can't just join in for some big op and then leave again and be safe.
As well as the join/leave militia mechanic.
|
ShaffGT
The Lost Legion
|
Posted - 2008.07.03 04:04:00 -
[23]
/signed
|
nVChicky
|
Posted - 2008.07.03 09:42:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Esmenet
Pointless suggestion as the possibility is already there.
I see no reason why the wardecs for other militia corps should be free.
RTFS We are not talking about the wardec system but that of the choice and a button for a war dec'd FW Corp to ask for help from other FW Corps within the same faction.
|
Lucai
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.07.03 09:51:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Lucai on 03/07/2008 09:57:01
Originally by: Hamfast
Silly question...
Player Corp (PC1) in a Player Alliance (PA1) gets War Decced by another Player Corp (PC2) in another Player Alliance (PA2)... What happens to the War Dec? is it on the Corp or the Alliance? Can those members of PA1 (and PA2) help in the war between PC1 and PC2?
It seems that if PC2 can only War Dec PA1 and not PC1, or of the War dec is in reality PA2 vs PA1, then the answer is to make the Faction Militia an "Alliance" that if you war Dec a Player Corp in it, you war dec the alliance... and pay that cost... you know, the one for a war dec on an alliance with 2 other wars (at least) already.
Not really that silly of a question, but the answer to that is that CCP so far stated they dont want that, as the big 0.0 players could then enter FW.
Maybe they will change that, but if not the above suggestion seems imho a reasonable workaround for the unsatisfying situation we have right now, so bringing it up cant hurt. If CCP then says theyll change the whole thing anyway, fine, nothing lost.
Regarding Esmenet, the problem is you have mixed fleets of many corps in FW. All these corps would have to wardec the aggressor on their own, meaning the price for the wars would skyrocket under current rules. Meaning effectively, it cant be done.
FW is id say the only part of EVE where you get so many fleets consisting of so many different "independant" corps in empire space, and these are not really that independant, but pledged to a common cause, so i think one can justify an exception to normal rules.
|
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.07.03 11:13:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Esmenet on 03/07/2008 11:16:39
Edited by: Esmenet on 03/07/2008 11:14:25
Originally by: Lucai
Regarding Esmenet, the problem is you have mixed fleets of many corps in FW. All these corps would have to wardec the aggressor on their own, meaning the price for the wars would skyrocket under current rules. Meaning effectively, it cant be done.
So what?
The militia is not an alliance its just a loose organisation to fight the other militias. So if your corp is beeing wardecced for whatever reason your corp should follow the normal wardec mechanics for corps. And if you want to involve more corps to help you then they need to actively start a wardec.
Otherwise it just turns into a extra protection for highsec corps.
If you want a change to this you should open for the possibility to wardec the whole militia similar to what you can do with an alliance.
|
nVChicky
|
Posted - 2008.07.03 11:56:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Esmenet
Edited by: Esmenet on 03/07/2008 11:16:39
Edited by: Esmenet on 03/07/2008 11:14:25
Originally by: Lucai
Regarding Esmenet, the problem is you have mixed fleets of many corps in FW. All these corps would have to wardec the aggressor on their own, meaning the price for the wars would skyrocket under current rules. Meaning effectively, it cant be done.
So what?
The militia is not an alliance its just a loose organisation to fight the other militias. So if your corp is beeing wardecced for whatever reason your corp should follow the normal wardec mechanics for corps. And if you want to involve more corps to help you then they need to actively start a wardec.
Otherwise it just turns into a extra protection for highsec corps.
If you want a change to this you should open for the possibility to wardec the whole militia similar to what you can do with an alliance.
I still don't think you get the point to this vote please refrain from posting irrelevant information, if you have a valid reason against allowing FW-Corps to assist other war dec'd FW Corps please go ahead.
|
Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
|
Posted - 2008.07.03 13:09:00 -
[28]
So what happens when Tim's Brigade wardecs Leet Warr!ors, both of them members of the State faction?
Is a third corp in the faction able to wardec both of them for free?
And yes this could matter, especially for some of the RP corporations.
|
nVChicky
|
Posted - 2008.07.03 13:17:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Dex Nederland
So what happens when Tim's Brigade wardecs Leet Warr!ors, both of them members of the State faction?
Is a third corp in the faction able to wardec both of them for free?
And yes this could matter, especially for some of the RP corporations.
its NOT the ability of FW Corps to War dec! for the last time!!!!
|
Lucai
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.07.03 13:28:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Lucai on 03/07/2008 13:28:27
Originally by: Dex Nederland
So what happens when Tim's Brigade wardecs Leet Warr!ors, both of them members of the State faction?
Is a third corp in the faction able to wardec both of them for free?
And yes this could matter, especially for some of the RP corporations.
I would only put "external" wardecs on the list of wars other militia corps can join in on. Something like your empire supporting the thing with CONCORD.
RP wise someone would have to pull CONORDs strings or pay up.
I wouldnt imagine them doing that for internal strife.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |