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Drone Regions - Won't they still be the "worst" space in EVE?

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Daten Kalkonen Syndicalis Immortalis The Skeleton Crew 1	Posted - 2012.03.14 19:58:00 - [1] - Quote Now that Drones will be getting bounties rather then dropping Drone Poo, won't they be just as "bad" if not worse for the average player? The reason for this is, unlike pirate space, Drone's don't really have faction loot unless you count t2 salvage which has other sources. Plus with the idea of lowering sec status of the Drone Regions this will mean less t2 salvage from them as well. So without the chance of any real faction drop, why should players go there at all now? Previously it was the place people would go to make capitals, now what's unique about it besides lack of Faction/Deadspace/Officer loot (which is a huge negative to moving there already)? Is there any reason to move there at all with this new change? Another worry about this change is the inflation this will cause, because drone poo itself reduces inflation by being a material faucet rather than an isk faucet. So with the addition of drone bounties, all bounties in total will be worth less, and everything will start to cost more due to lack of mineral supply/market speculation and inflation (just look at Zydrine prices this weekend for the former, and item prices after the introduction of Incursions for the latter). More isk faucets isn't what the EVE economy needs, it needs less of them, which is why drone poo needs to stay and we need for find other ways of making mining more profitable.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 1318	Posted - 2012.03.14 20:04:00 - [2] - Quote I think this is CCP showing their dislike of Russians. Just a theory. Another idea: the drone regions were not intended to be "owned" by ... Russians. (there I did it again). Otherwise, I don't know. Could there be other reasons to go? Exploration perhaps? Roams?
Endeavour Starfleet 701	Posted - 2012.03.14 20:06:00 - [3] - Quote About the mineral reduction part. My opinion on the whole subject is change mining to passive. = Problem solved. The current system is full of bots and was completely destroyed by drone regions anyway. Even with high mineral prices it is still so boring compared to even mission running. You cant make as much money, You are in a ship without enough structure HP to prevent alphas, and you are too tempted to go semi AFK. This makes it harder to separate legit from botting as well. And to be frank there needs to be real "**** space" in nullsec. Places where smaller groups can develop and forum new alliances without too much worry of being pwned by a huge alliance looking for new expensive rent ground.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 475	Posted - 2012.03.14 20:10:00 - [4] - Quote no they won't because drone regions have lots of good/great truesec value systems so bounty values will be higher then many other regions also they'll be better because bounty value are static ie: not subject to decreasing returns as the new eden mineral market is flooded with ever increasing drone compounds also now there's no need to haul anything to a station to profit hth
Daten Kalkonen Syndicalis Immortalis The Skeleton Crew 1	Posted - 2012.03.14 20:19:00 - [5] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: no they won't because drone regions have lots of good/great truesec value systems so bounty values will be higher then many other regions also they'll be better because bounty value are static ie: not subject to decreasing returns as the new eden mineral market is flooded with ever increasing drone compounds also now there's no need to haul anything to a station to profit or jf anything to jita, which opens the region up to alliances with more conventional logistics that want to set up shop hth Actually CCP was thinking about nerfing the trusec of the drone regions as well. So instead of all the high end -1.0 systems with Mercoxit belts and great bounties there will be a lot less of them. The rest of your points are good, but bounties are still subject to decreasing returns due to inflation which they would cause themselves.
Daten Kalkonen Syndicalis Immortalis The Skeleton Crew 1	Posted - 2012.03.14 20:26:00 - [6] - Quote Endeavour Starfleet wrote: About the mineral reduction part. My opinion on the whole subject is change mining to passive. = Problem solved. The current system is full of bots and was completely destroyed by drone regions anyway. Even with high mineral prices it is still so boring compared to even mission running. You cant make as much money, You are in a ship without enough structure HP to prevent alphas, and you are too tempted to go semi AFK. This makes it harder to separate legit from botting as well. And to be frank there needs to be real "** space" in nullsec. Places where smaller groups can develop and forum new alliances without too much worry of being pwned by a huge alliance looking for new expensive rent ground. The problem with this is changing the drone regions to bounties would mean ship prices would go up by a lot, which would be great for miners, but not so much for everybody else. I disagree that this is the way to fix mining, there are plenty of better ideas. I agree on the " space" idea, but I really don't think drone regions are meant to be that space, since they are already controlled by big alliances, and they're not really **** enough to warrant not having them as rental space. I would think NPC space would be better for this type of thing, they just need to change mechanics a bit to make it work.
Tobiaz Spacerats 4	Posted - 2012.03.14 20:30:00 - [7] - Quote While it might not be as straight up as the other null-sec regions, I'm really not under the impression the Russians&co are really suffering under the fact they get drone-poo instead of bounties. So 'worst regions'... ? I think it's a horrible change though. Inflation is already a big problem and just equalizing null-sec is just sad. It's diversity that makes this game thrive, not handing everybody the same bland bowl of gruel. Edit: If the change is because CCP thinks there are too many minerals coming from the east, then perhaps they should fix the real problem behind it, and leave the drones be.
Kehro Urgus 167	Posted - 2012.03.14 20:31:00 - [8] - Quote Shadow of Death looks like it is getting steamrolled out of the drone regions so maybe Solar sees it as valuable real estate. I hear voices and they don't like you very much!
Daten Kalkonen Syndicalis Immortalis The Skeleton Crew 1	Posted - 2012.03.14 20:37:00 - [9] - Quote Tobiaz wrote: While it might not be as straight up as the other null-sec regions, I'm really not under the impression the Russians&co are really suffering under the fact they get drone-poo instead of bounties. So 'worst regions'... ? This was mainly people talking about how no one really wants to move there. But I just think this would make it a lot worse, because now instead of manufacturing corps moving there absolutely no one will want to live there now unless CCP does something else to fix it (which will also probably ** up some other sector of the EVE economy). Quote: I think it's a horrible change though. Inflation is already a big problem and just equalizing null-sec is just sad. It's diversity that makes this game thrive, not handing everybody the same bland bowl of gruel. I agree completely. Kehro Urgus wrote: Shadow of Death looks like it is getting steamrolled out of the drone regions so maybe Solar sees it as valuable real estate. SOLAR lived there already anyways, what happened was just a big war going on because xxDeathxx decided to ** around with some renter alliance and has nothing to do with the change to drone poo.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 477	Posted - 2012.03.14 20:39:00 - [10] - Quote Daten Kalkonen wrote: Actually CCP was thinking about nerfing the trusec of the drone regions as well. So instead of all the high end -1.0 systems with Mercoxit belts and great bounties there will be a lot less of them. So I think that answers the original question - rather then be the 'worst space in eve', bounty drone space would be so good that CCP are considering nerfing it in advance
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 477	Posted - 2012.03.14 20:43:00 - [11] - Quote Tobiaz wrote: While it might not be as straight up as the other null-sec regions, I'm really not under the impression the Russians&co are really suffering under the fact they get drone-poo instead of bounties. So 'worst regions'... ?. UAxdeath and Krutoj rode into CSM office on the platform of removing drone compounds from the game, something their constituents seem all for. Drone region life is great for the alliance supercapital manufacturer, or the guy who rats in something with a jump drive, but hellish for the rank and file.
Daten Kalkonen Syndicalis Immortalis The Skeleton Crew 2	Posted - 2012.03.14 20:49:00 - [12] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Daten Kalkonen wrote: Actually CCP was thinking about nerfing the trusec of the drone regions as well. So instead of all the high end -1.0 systems with Mercoxit belts and great bounties there will be a lot less of them. So I think that answers the original question - rather then be the 'worst space in eve', bounty drone space would be so good that CCP are considering nerfing it in advance I think the trusec nerf is more aimed at making the Drone regions come into line with all of the other regions rather than making drone bounties worse. Plus it removes a lot of the high end ore from the drone regions. Etherium Reach has 25 systems with trusec statuses better than -0.75, because the drone regions generally aren't considered worth very much without such high trusec. Plus with the recent belt ratting nerf having high trusec systems doesn't guarantee high bounty rats anymore, so that would not make sense either.
Tetragammatron Prime Pink Sockers 26	Posted - 2012.03.14 21:30:00 - [13] - Quote I wonder if they will change the amount of high end anomalies drone regions get since I remember get many more drone sanctum equivalent in decent true sec compared to sanctums in same true sec pirate space.
Par'Gellen 20	Posted - 2012.03.14 22:00:00 - [14] - Quote Drones are getting bounties? How did i miss that? To err is human, but it shouldn't be the company motto...
gfldex 376	Posted - 2012.03.14 22:10:00 - [15] - Quote Wait, wait, wait! Did you just say that nobody wants to go there after the change and that will cause massive inflation? You can't mine and shoot NPCs at the same time (at least not efficiently). As a result all those folk who start to mine (again) will stop shooting NPCs. The sky will fall but not because of increased bounty payout or Incursions and the anomaly change would have cause whining that is ENDLESS. The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson
gfldex 376	Posted - 2012.03.14 22:12:00 - [16] - Quote Par'Gellen wrote: Drones are getting bounties? How did i miss that? Maybe because you fail to read the right forum? The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson
Par'Gellen 20	Posted - 2012.03.14 22:58:00 - [17] - Quote gfldex wrote: Par'Gellen wrote: Drones are getting bounties? How did i miss that? Maybe because you fail to read the right forum? What's that from? To err is human, but it shouldn't be the company motto...
Hexus Draidin Intersteller Masons Wonder Kids 47	Posted - 2012.03.14 23:11:00 - [18] - Quote Hai Daten! Drone regions scare me. You are a brave soul for taking on drone battleships. I can't even look at them. Getting rid of drone goo to bandage the mineral prices feels like transferring a bandage from one wound to another, ultimately not solving anything so much as just moving the problem. If people would just recall their drones we would not have this problem. Instead, drone regions would bustling with pirates. Unfortunately, drones are neglected and mistreated. I support PETD - People for the Ethical Treatment of Drones.
Daten Kalkonen Syndicalis Immortalis The Skeleton Crew 5	Posted - 2012.03.15 00:09:00 - [19] - Quote Hexus Draidin wrote: Getting rid of drone goo to bandage the mineral prices feels like transferring a bandage from one wound to another, ultimately not solving anything so much as just moving the problem. This is the problem with the "solution" CCP is offering. It doesn't really fix anything, it just makes ships and items cost more through inflation. Plus it just makes mining bots more profitable, so we can expect more with those since they're probably easier to make.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 478	Posted - 2012.03.15 00:13:00 - [20] - Quote none of those are major problems compared to the problems it fixes
Daten Kalkonen Syndicalis Immortalis The Skeleton Crew 5	Posted - 2012.03.15 00:42:00 - [21] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: none of those are major problems compared to the problems it fixes Problems it fixes: Russians can make less Supers (Not even a real problem anyways). Makes mining more profitable. Problems it creates: More inflation. Higher mineral prices (which increase the prices of everything else in the game). Ruins the entire point of the Drone Regions and makes them less unique. Easier to bot.
Tobiaz Spacerats 5	Posted - 2012.03.15 00:59:00 - [22] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Tobiaz wrote: While it might not be as straight up as the other null-sec regions, I'm really not under the impression the Russians&co are really suffering under the fact they get drone-poo instead of bounties. So 'worst regions'... ?. UAxdeath and Krutoj rode into CSM office on the platform of removing drone compounds from the game, something their constituents seem all for. Drone region life is great for the alliance supercapital manufacturer, or the guy who rats in something with a jump drive, but hellish for the rank and file. Ok so it's different from the other null-sec regions. Even if it's worse, it's still not a bad thing. Envy, strife, greed, these are the things that drive EVE. The more difference and inequality in null-sec, hell ANYWHERE in Eve, the better! And with the amount of supercaps the Russians can swing around, they could probably take a 'better' region if they really hate dronepoo so much. It'll be akin to the numerous waves of conquerors that invaded Europe from the east, only to settle down and be invaded themselves in turn.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 479	Posted - 2012.03.15 01:10:00 - [23] - Quote Tobiaz wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Tobiaz wrote: While it might not be as straight up as the other null-sec regions, I'm really not under the impression the Russians&co are really suffering under the fact they get drone-poo instead of bounties. So 'worst regions'... ?. UAxdeath and Krutoj rode into CSM office on the platform of removing drone compounds from the game, something their constituents seem all for. Drone region life is great for the alliance supercapital manufacturer, or the guy who rats in something with a jump drive, but hellish for the rank and file. Ok so it's different from the other null-sec regions. Even if it's worse, it's still not a bad thing. Envy, strife, greed, these are the things that drive EVE. The more difference and inequality in null-sec, hell ANYWHERE in Eve, the better! And with the amount of supercaps the Russians can swing around, they could probably take a 'better' region if they really hate dronepoo so much. It'll be akin to the numerous waves of conquerors that invaded Europe from the east, only to settle down and be invaded themselves in turn. Yes welcome to 2010 when Dominion came out. Now while there's no problem inherently in regions being of unequal value, the nature of drone space introduces deep problems to EVE as a whole (like mining, mineral saturation, logistics, manufacturing, etc) that can't be justified simply for 'change for change's sake'.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 479	Posted - 2012.03.15 01:13:00 - [24] - Quote Daten Kalkonen wrote: Problems it creates: Easier to bot. yes botting in the drone regions must be a terribly difficult problem as it is right now god help us if some russian does the impossible and programs a bot that can run in drone space
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 50	Posted - 2012.03.15 01:19:00 - [25] - Quote I think it's funny that so many people still buy into the whole "drone regions suxxor" thing. Maybe it's because there is no NPC drone region space and not many people have had a chance to live there but I have lived in the drone lands once it was released and through a few drone mineral rebalances and always found it to be very profitable. Yes you do have to spend 30mins to anchor GSCs in a few ratting systems and haul minerals once every week or so but that's really easy with the cov ops transport ships. Then you sell the minerals/alloys to your corp for like 5-10% under Jita prices and since your corp has so many minerals you get cheap t1 ships. Whenever I calculated the mineral price per drone BS I always ended up making more isk than in other regions. Faction drone spawns tend to suck but I never got lucky with those anyways. Is the change to bounties going to open up a swarm of people invading or leaving the drone lands? Nah, it'll be business as usual.
Tobiaz Spacerats 5	Posted - 2012.03.15 01:20:00 - [26] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Tobiaz wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Tobiaz wrote: While it might not be as straight up as the other null-sec regions, I'm really not under the impression the Russians&co are really suffering under the fact they get drone-poo instead of bounties. So 'worst regions'... ?. UAxdeath and Krutoj rode into CSM office on the platform of removing drone compounds from the game, something their constituents seem all for. Drone region life is great for the alliance supercapital manufacturer, or the guy who rats in something with a jump drive, but hellish for the rank and file. Ok so it's different from the other null-sec regions. Even if it's worse, it's still not a bad thing. Envy, strife, greed, these are the things that drive EVE. The more difference and inequality in null-sec, hell ANYWHERE in Eve, the better! And with the amount of supercaps the Russians can swing around, they could probably take a 'better' region if they really hate dronepoo so much. It'll be akin to the numerous waves of conquerors that invaded Europe from the east, only to settle down and be invaded themselves in turn. Yes welcome to 2010 when Dominion came out. Now while there's no problem inherently in regions being of unequal value, the nature of drone space introduces deep problems to EVE as a whole (like mining, mineral saturation, logistics, manufacturing, etc) that can't be justified simply for 'change for change's sake'. Nobody's happy with the current of affairs, even those like UAxDeath who have profited from the status quo more then anyone. Sadly, changing minerals to bounties won't fix any of these, deeper underlying problems. But it's typical for CCP to smack symptoms with a big hammer, causing all kinds of new cracks, while never communicating about any of this with the community. It's like the haven't learned anything of the mess they made last year.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 479	Posted - 2012.03.15 01:45:00 - [27] - Quote Tobiaz wrote: Sadly, changing minerals to bounties won't fix any of these, deeper underlying problems. . Actually it will. Drone compounds are themselves a deep, underlying problem.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate 338	Posted - 2012.03.15 03:00:00 - [28] - Quote Daten Kalkonen wrote: More inflation. Higher mineral prices (which increase the prices of everything else in the game). Ruins the entire point of the Drone Regions and makes them less unique. Easier to bot. The inflation already exists. Reducing the supply of minerals from drone regions allows inflation in Eve to fulfill its role, to create incentive to do something else other than shoot rats. Removing loot and changing salvage to another mechanic would go even further in allowing normal market forces to assert them selves. The opportunity cost of shooting rats is being subsidized by too many things dropping from rats. Nerfing drone poo is a good step in the right direction.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium 1037	Posted - 2012.03.15 04:57:00 - [29] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Tobiaz wrote: Sadly, changing minerals to bounties won't fix any of these, deeper underlying problems. . Actually it will. Drone compounds are themselves a deep, underlying problem. Switching drone poo to bounties simply replaces one deep underlying problem with a slightly shallower problem. ISK faucet vs mineral faucet, I would pick the mineral faucet. Ideally, drone poo would reprocess to items used for drone related mods, rigs & implants.
Zifrian Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing 232	Posted - 2012.03.31 10:56:00 - [30] - Quote Having been in both regions, Drones without poo will make drone space pretty boring. Not that that matters to most, but it will suck somewhat for us that are here. T2 salvage is a joke compared to the possibilities of faction regions. My hope is they don't only switch the poo to bounties and be done with it. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour!

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