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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
75
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 20:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
The NERF bat is outa control. NERF THE INCURSIONS, NERF THE TECH MOONS, NERF THE BLUE LOOT, NERF THE TITANS!!! I wonder if you all realize you sound like a bunch of sniveling runts. Instead of nerfs we need specific buffs else the game gets reduced to use all flying a bunch of rookie ships as the end game. NERFingis not just the lazy way to do things its the unfun way which fundamentally is rideculas ( its like after releaseing a Corvet to the market having the goverment magically put a regulator in the engine to force it to not be able to exceed the speed limit ) |

Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
25
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 20:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Not mine, my solution was catastrophe, massive random destruction.
You know, super novas, the kind of thing that can wipe massive wealth |

Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1890
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 20:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
How is nerfing titans supposed to solve inflation? That's what nerfing incursions is for, silly! The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
134
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 20:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:How is nerfing titans supposed to solve inflation? That's what nerfing incursions is for, silly!
Just think of the ISK sink! He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5540
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 20:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
That would be a reasonable conclusion if it weren't for nerfs being the most commonly useful solution to imbalances. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
75
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 20:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tippia wrote:That would be a reasonable conclusion if it weren't for nerfs being the most commonly useful solution to imbalances. It is a lazy slothfull way to balance inequaties eventhough its the most commonly used tool lately. And it always hurts one group over another in a fundamentally unfair way |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5541
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 20:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:It is a lazy slothfull way to balance inequaties It is also usually the most precise and accurate way of balancing things, since the alternative (buffing everything else) has a tendency to just lead to power creep and even more balance issues.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1892
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 20:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Tippia wrote:That would be a reasonable conclusion if it weren't for nerfs being the most commonly useful solution to imbalances. It is a lazy slothfull way to balance inequaties eventhough its the most commonly used tool lately. And it always hurts one group over another in a fundamentally unfair way
But you're fine with the group exploiting the game in a fundamentally unfair way?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |

Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
989
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 20:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
you don't belt rat in your titan??? The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
75
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 20:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Tippia wrote:That would be a reasonable conclusion if it weren't for nerfs being the most commonly useful solution to imbalances. It is a lazy slothfull way to balance inequaties eventhough its the most commonly used tool lately. And it always hurts one group over another in a fundamentally unfair way But you're fine with the group exploiting the game in a fundamentally unfair way? Nope I'm not fine with it i'd rather see a buff to the peeps being expoited then a nerf to the exploiters. |

Tobiaz
Spacerats
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 20:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP takes inflation very seriously. That's why they are changing dronepoo into bounties because the Russian botters were pouring too many minerals into the market. 
Ok that doesn't make sense, but it's CCP we're talking about here. |

Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1893
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 20:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Tippia wrote:That would be a reasonable conclusion if it weren't for nerfs being the most commonly useful solution to imbalances. It is a lazy slothfull way to balance inequaties eventhough its the most commonly used tool lately. And it always hurts one group over another in a fundamentally unfair way But you're fine with the group exploiting the game in a fundamentally unfair way? Nope I'm not fine with it i'd rather see a buff to the peeps being expoited then a nerf to the exploiters.
It's a good thing you don't work in game design.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
75
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 20:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote: It's a good thing you don't work in game design.
I applied to work in CCP game design but was told I have to join GoonSwarm first  |

Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1064
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 20:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:I just love how everyone's solution to percieved out of control inflation or some other injustice is NERF someone else's faucet or style of play. The NERF bat is outa control. NERF THE INCURSIONS, NERF THE TECH MOONS, NERF THE BLUE LOOT, NERF THE TITANS!!! I wonder if you all realize you sound like a bunch of sniveling runts. Instead of nerfs we need specific buffs else the game gets reduced to use all flying a bunch of rookie ships as the end game. NERFing is not just the lazy way to do things its the unfun way which fundamentally is rideculas ( its like after releaseing a Lamborgini to the market one week having the goverment magically put a regulator in the engine a year later to force it to not be able to exceed the speed limit ) Specific buffs can solve many of these problems but they are not as easy to do & can bring unintended consequences sure but still are a better route IMHO
I'm very curious what kind of buff you have in mind to solve the problem in question. Oh I got it - maybe we can fix the Risk vs Isk ratio of high sec incursions by buffing 0.0 anom running.... oh wait that makes the problem worse. Basically: the economy is out of balance and someone is going to feel it when its brought back into balance - no matter how it gets fixed.
-Liang
Ed: Regarding the discussion with Tippia: buffing everything else would simply mean that certain activities would be relatively nerfed. Like I said - someone's gonna feel it no matter how it happens. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|

Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
108
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 21:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
The rich get richer, the poor get poorer.
Faucets aren't the problem. Distribution is, always has been.
The great thing about Incursions is, you get a chat window launch when you enter one. After Patch 1.5 the Incursions all reset and I happened to be in an Incursion system at the time. The Incursion chat window never went over 85. So "everybody" isn't doing incursions.
I'd speculate that there are around 1200 people in this game that could quit for 6 months and grind the entire economy to a halt. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5546
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 21:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ocih wrote:Faucets aren't the problem. Distribution is, always has been. No, faucets are indeed the problem when it comes to an oversupply of ISK. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
56
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 21:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Eve never supposed to be about income equality !!!! only about risk reward mechanism. |

Anastasia Shimaya
Viziam Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 21:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
OP's iWIN buttons are being taken away :( |

Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
121
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 21:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Question, if nerfing stuff (or buffing everything else) isn't how to fix OP stuff, WTF is? Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |

Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1893
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 21:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote: It's a good thing you don't work in game design.
I applied to work in CCP game design but was told I have to join GoonSwarm first 
Contact me in-game. I can help out with your application.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |

Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
25
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 21:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ocih wrote:Faucets aren't the problem. Distribution is, always has been. No, faucets are indeed the problem when it comes to an oversupply of ISK.
ISK Faucet, is that a Kholer "Bold Look" product? 
Can someone show me how to turn mine on?
I think you mean Facet.
|

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
75
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 21:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:Question, if nerfing stuff (or buffing everything else) isn't how to fix OP stuff, WTF is? Actually I did say buffing should be a solution... here's a few examples:
Incursions: need a buff to rats in the easier Vanguard sites so risk of ship lose in increased... a buff to Assault payouts so more people take time to do these riskier sites which brings the rewards on par with Vangurds rewards. Also 10% Concord implants that cost 500k lp and 2.5 billion ISK would be a great ISK sink / skill buff
TITANS: Instead of the tracking NERF a buff in the form of super bombs that are only effective against such monstosities... this would take some carefull though to make sure the Silworm like missles cant damage other ships as bad... maybe a missle that does high damage to structure only but this same weapon would have to be thought out alot to make sure POS's too are not so vulnerable to them ( or maybe not POS bashing might need a buff too :)
MOON GOO: I like the idea of Drones being buffed start pooping out dollups of goo randomly ( so its not just a totally NULL SEC monopoly)
Wormholes BLUE LOOTS: SLEEPER INCURSIONS INTO hi lo & null that replace the Sansha incursions |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
75
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 21:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote: It's a good thing you don't work in game design.
I applied to work in CCP game design but was told I have to join GoonSwarm first  Contact me in-game. I can help out with your application.
Sure is your wallet blinking yet from my 500 million isk deposit?    |

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
336
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 22:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Instead of nerfs we need specific buffs
Every nerf is a buff, Nerfed drone poo buffs mining. Nerfing titans buffs SubCaps.
It's only a nerf when it takes away from you. |

Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 22:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nobody tell him that making the rats in vanguards tougher would be a nerf, |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5548
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 22:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bootleg Jack wrote:ISK Faucet, is that a Kholer "Bold Look" product?  Can someone show me how to turn mine on? I think you mean Facet. You think wrong. I mean faucet.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |

Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
108
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 22:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'm guilty here too.
A year ago I was bitching and moaning about how PL face rolled the NC with thier I-Win titan fleet. At the time I couldn't see how we were supposed to combat that.
Then PL got arrogant and headed South, where -A- flopped them over thier knee and spanked some Supers out of them, turned them around and sent them back to the north. So it isn't that Titan fleets can't be beat, it's just that fat, moon goon politicians can't beat them with thier drake/ Maelstrom blobs.
I was wrong, I can admit it. Thank you for pointing that out -A- |

Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1067
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 22:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
Bootleg Jack wrote:Tippia wrote:Ocih wrote:Faucets aren't the problem. Distribution is, always has been. No, faucets are indeed the problem when it comes to an oversupply of ISK. ISK Faucet, is that a Kholer "Bold Look" product?  Can someone show me how to turn mine on? I think you mean Facet.
define: facet
fac-+et/-êfasit/ Noun: One side of something many-sided, esp. of a cut gem. A particular aspect or feature of something.
define: faucet fau-+cet/-êf+¦sit/ Noun: A device by which a flow of liquid or gas from a pipe or container can be controlled; a tap. Synonyms: tap - spigot
No, he has the right term. And you turn it on by going and shooting something and opening the flow of ISK that magically appears in your wallet from CONCORD.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|

Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
121
|
Posted - 2012.03.14 22:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Grey Azorria wrote:Question, if nerfing stuff (or buffing everything else) isn't how to fix OP stuff, WTF is? Actually I did say buffing should be a solution... here's a few examples: Incursions: need a buff to rats in the easier Vanguard sites so risk of ship lose in increased... a buff to Assault payouts so more people take time to do these riskier sites which brings the rewards on par with Vangurds rewards. Also 10% Concord implants that cost 500k lp and 2.5 billion ISK would be a great ISK sink / skill buff TITANS: Instead of the tracking NERF a buff in the form of super bombs that are only effective against such monstosities... this would take some carefull though to make sure the Silworm like missles cant damage other ships as bad... maybe a missle that does high damage to structure only but this same weapon would have to be thought out alot to make sure POS's too are not so vulnerable to them ( or maybe not POS bashing might need a buff too :) MOON GOO: I like the idea of Drones being buffed start pooping out dollups of goo randomly ( so its not just a totally NULL SEC monopoly) Wormholes BLUE LOOTS: SLEEPER INCURSIONS INTO hi lo & null that replace the Sansha incursions (actually I'd only like to see the blue loots in the HQ sites but the ribbons in all sites ) I was only talking about over powered stuff, mainly ships (titans anyone?), buffing UP (under powered) stuff is also a good balancing technique, basically the option that changes the least stuff is usually the better one (ie. buffing hybrids rather than nerfing lasers, projectiles and missiles).
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
77
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 00:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:I was only talking about over powered stuff, mainly ships (titans anyone?), buffing UP (under powered) stuff is also a good balancing technique, basically the option that changes the least stuff is usually the better one (ie. buffing hybrids rather than nerfing lasers, projectiles and missiles).
Well I made 1 suggestion about the Titans being subject to a new buffed super missile(or bomb) that does extra structure damage... I was sorta hoping someone else would make the suggestion like special missles designed to fly down the two-meter exhaust vents that are fired by intercpetors which cause the DeathStars to explode err I mean the Titan's to self destruct 
I'm still hoping someone smarter then me can suggest another buff to a cap or sub cap that'd make Titans vulnerable like how Carriers have a special vulnerability to Bhallgorns with a full rack of neuts |

Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
253
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 00:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Tippia wrote:That would be a reasonable conclusion if it weren't for nerfs being the most commonly useful solution to imbalances. It is a lazy slothfull way to balance inequaties eventhough its the most commonly used tool lately. And it always hurts one group over another in a fundamentally unfair way But you're fine with the group exploiting the game in a fundamentally unfair way? Nope I'm not fine with it i'd rather see a buff to the peeps being expoited then a nerf to the exploiters.
MOAR EXPLOITZ!!!!!
Save the Miners! |

Farang Lo
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 02:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Grey Azorria wrote:Question, if nerfing stuff (or buffing everything else) isn't how to fix OP stuff, WTF is? Actually I did say buffing should be a solution... here's a few examples: Wormholes BLUE LOOTS: SLEEPER INCURSIONS INTO hi lo & null that replace the Sansha incursions (actually I'd only like to see the blue loots in the HQ sites but the ribbons in all sites ) so what's wrong with sleeper blue tag??
it molests your incursion??
|

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
77
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 03:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
Farang Lo wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Grey Azorria wrote:Question, if nerfing stuff (or buffing everything else) isn't how to fix OP stuff, WTF is? Actually I did say buffing should be a solution... here's a few examples: Wormholes BLUE LOOTS: SLEEPER INCURSIONS INTO hi lo & null that replace the Sansha incursions (actually I'd only like to see the blue loots in the HQ sites but the ribbons in all sites ) so what's wrong with sleeper blue tag?? it molests your incursion??
Nothing wrong with it just have it as a present for the bigger sites. |

Hexus Draidin
Intersteller Masons Wonder Kids
49
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 03:36:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ladies, gentlemen, and variations thereupon, the pro-titan initiative presents slippery slope and false analogy tonight, falling just short of the typical triad of logical fallacies.
I are disappoint.
|

Cherry Nobyl
Shadow Strike Syndicate
56
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 04:04:00 -
[35] - Quote
Nerf it all from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
|

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1037
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 04:17:00 -
[36] - Quote
I still befuddles me that CONCORD pays bounties on pirates in nullsec, or charges rent for stations owned by players.
In the meantime, Incursions are an income stream that was turned on at full blast, and is flooding the economy with ISK. The only way to rebalance this is to turn the flow down or to add ISK sinks which will take away approximately as much ISK as Incursions generate,
Hands up all the people who have activities which are fun enough to be worth paying 100M ISK/hr to participate in?
|

Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1068
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 04:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
PVP can potentially be much more expensive than that.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|

Cipher Jones
356
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 04:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP is dealing with it by making an ISK sink expansion and PLEX pricing. They will prolly bow to the pressure and lower VG cash payouts and possibly buff LP.
Then everyone will still cry, and the tears will still taste good on chocolate chip cookies.
04:25:37 Notify Cipher Jones, criminals are not welcome here. Leave now or be destroyed. |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
77
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 04:48:00 -
[39] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:CCP is dealing with it by making an ISK sink expansion and PLEX pricing. They will prolly bow to the pressure and lower VG cash payouts and possibly buff LP.
Then everyone will still cry, and the tears will still taste good on chocolate chip cookies.
lol the ISK sink expansion? is that after Inferno and it'll be called Drain-O????? |

KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
447
|
Posted - 2012.03.15 04:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
Hopefully it's called Nerf-O or Whine-O, as CCP does the right thing and makes all incursion zones 0.0 or simply removes them entirely. http://blog.beyondreality.se/Incursion-hose
Remove all incursions from hisec |
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