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Canis Trucido
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Posted - 2008.07.09 02:31:00 -
[1]
long story short. I was flying though belts when i noticed acargo continer that wasnt secure. I go to check it out and it is loded with ore. I thouht "easy money" cause it was in my home base system. I go back, get in an indutrial, and go and take the ore. I was only able to get half of it. I go to warp away and suddenly, I feel like a ***t. I was half way trough the warp tunnel and i started haveing images of some guy going there and seeing that an hours worth of mining was suddenly pointless, and being totally bummed and the rest of his night and maybe next day ruined, then maybe him doing something drastic like punching somebody or what not and then having way worse repercussions then just a 'bad day'.
So I fliped a U and put all the ore back.
I was able to sleep that night.
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Matthew Cooper
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.07.09 02:34:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Matthew Cooper on 09/07/2008 02:37:39
Stealing ore from somebody I have no previous relationship with, I would feel bad about.
Stealing loot from the wreck of a destroyed ship, I sleep very well. In most cases, the person who lost their ship would probably rather see their hard earned stuff go to me than the person who took it from them. That said, I don't give it back to them either, it's not like the pirate/person at war would have. 
Edited for clarity.
 Originally by: Tarminic
Stop posting with your alt Kieron. 
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Apoctasy
The Python Cartel
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Posted - 2008.07.09 02:38:00 -
[3]
This is eve. There are no such things as morals. I take what I can when I want.
Anyways, it's his fault he just left the ore there unsecured.
Besides, since you put it back, I bet someone else has taken it by now.
----
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.07.09 02:42:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Hannobaal on 09/07/2008 02:42:27
A little less than a year ago I destroyed a Covetor in low-sec then felt really bad afterwards and sent the guy 20 mil for the loss to make myself feel better.
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I'm not as think as you drunk I am. |
Siberys
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Posted - 2008.07.09 02:42:00 -
[5]
Well, there was the time I almost killed a guy with a 20 mil bounty in a pod with almost no health... but I resisted the urge.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.09 02:51:00 -
[6]
Free ore and you gave it back!? 
Being nice gets you nowhere (unless there's money involved ><)
...
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Siberys
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Posted - 2008.07.09 02:53:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Being nice gets you nowhere (unless there's money involved ><)
Or girls.
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Amastat
Caldari
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.07.09 03:01:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Amastat on 09/07/2008 03:01:05
At times I can be forgiving or remorseful, and I hate it at times even. I know that all the players around me are being control by live, human beings - so I can't help but have respect for that, no matter how undeserving they are.
____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Chzandri
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Posted - 2008.07.09 03:04:00 -
[9]
I never have problems with conscience stealing something or killing someone in EVE and being ebil in general. I judge from my own experience. If I never lost anything to pirates and thieves and other villains and general ingame scum, I would have quit EVE very soon. This is because any advancement in game can truly be appreciated through losses. If you have never lost anything, earning another 100 mil becomes meaningless. So the guy might get bummed today when he sees his ore gone, but tomorrow he will have a new goal to play towards and he will feel much better mining up another container.
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JanoMark
smoking blunts
Mutual Assured Destruction
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Posted - 2008.07.09 03:05:00 -
[10]
In your situation I wouldn't even think about it twice, I used to fly around looking for unanchored cans and just scoop the whole can. Easy isk, but really it just depends on my mood.
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Phroneo
Caldari
Southern Cross Incorporated
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.09 03:08:00 -
[11]
I wish there was some tangible rewards for having morals. Or by cold and dark, do we mean EVE is a cold hearted place? I am especially surprised by the person who said EVE has no morals... if this were true, there would be no difference between helping out a newbie / having fair fights and suicide ganking noobs in high-sec for fun till they quit.
--
It may be that the old astrologers had the truth exactly reversed, when they believed that the stars controlled the destinies of men. The time may come when men control the destinies of stars. ACC |
Jei'son Bladesmith
The Storm Knights
The Cool Kids Club
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Posted - 2008.07.09 03:11:00 -
[12]
Mo-rals? Eth-ics? what are these wurds you speak of?
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2008.07.09 03:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Phroneo
if this were true, there would be no difference between helping out a newbie / having fair fights and suicide ganking noobs in high-sec for fun till they quit.
To most players, there isn't.
--
Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes. |
Amastat
Caldari
Omegatech
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Posted - 2008.07.09 03:19:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Amastat on 09/07/2008 03:26:42
Edited by: Amastat on 09/07/2008 03:24:41
Originally by: Phroneo
I wish there was some tangible rewards for having morals. Or by cold and dark, do we mean EVE is a cold hearted place? I am especially surprised by the person who said EVE has no morals... if this were true, there would be no difference between helping out a newbie / having fair fights and suicide ganking noobs in high-sec for fun till they quit.
Saying theres no morals in EVE - believe it or not - is like saying there are no Goons.
Ever met a Carebear? :P
Chribba is probably the most common example and proof the statement is false. He's the most honorable trustworthy figure that the EVE community knows of. Tons of people love him for it, however some few hate him, and others like him - for some odd reason, and would kill him if they could.
EVE is both - good and bad, but its pretty false to say there is no moral players in EVE.
I'm a bit of both - I'm capable of being very reasonable, and at times forgiving. I'm also known by those who know me to be trustworthy and as someone who always honors their promises, deals, or loans - I'm someone who will sell off their Carrier or CNR before failing to pay back owed ISK.
I'm however capable of being cruel and unforgiving in a war with those who deserve it. I'm willing to play dirty and extensive use of tools like espinoge, sabatoge, and misleading tactics to confuse and distort a enemy, I'd even take measures to cause internal turmoil to a enemys corporation and cause it to fall apart from the inside even. I tend to like to kill targets before they have much time to react and are vulnerable, I like to take advantage of weak and predictable players, and use pyschological warfare.
These may be considered very dirty, unfair tactics, and low blows, by some - but it works, so it dson't really matter to me.
If my enemy criticizes me for my methods, it's rather irrelevant - their the enemy, so their word is and remains worthless.
But yea :P EVE has both - I suppose I'm sorta in between. Some people are very carefree and play to pick on people for their pleasure, some are honest players who play by the rules and have ethics and morals.
Probably most players are in between - maybe more of one thing and less of the other, but still, a balance of both worlds.
____________________
"All warfare is based on deception... we must seem unable...seem inactive...and crush him " - Sun Tzu |
Macareus
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Posted - 2008.07.09 03:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Amastat
Saying theres no morals in EVE - believe it or not - is like saying there are no Goons.
There are no morally significant choices in EVE because there are no morally significant consequences - we're all flying around in made up internet spaceships.
Someone who helps you get your internet spaceships or doesn't steal your internet ore isn't morally more valuable, they just choose to play the game differently than those that would "steal" your internet ore.
To say that someone did something evil in EVE would be like saying your chess opponent made an evil move - it doesn't make sense since it's just a game.
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Chzandri
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Posted - 2008.07.09 03:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Phroneo
I wish there was some tangible rewards for having morals. Or by cold and dark, do we mean EVE is a cold hearted place? I am especially surprised by the person who said EVE has no morals... if this were true, there would be no difference between helping out a newbie / having fair fights and suicide ganking noobs in high-sec for fun till they quit.
Morals are only applicable to a universe with like living people in it ... good and evil, moral and immoral completely lose their meaning outside of context of human life.
EVE has no human life, it has virtual characters that experience no fear, no pain, have no families, well they aren't alive in the first place ... you are playing a game against human opponents using your character as a pawn and the only thing that matters is that you abide by the rules of the game. In your example griefing is against the rules of the game, hence it is unfair and GMs will ban you for it. But for example, saying that scamming or piracy is immoral in EVE is like saying that killing off your opponent's pawns, or knights, or bishops while playing chess is immoral. It is within the rules and something you do to win the game.
If you say that there are other ways of wining the game that don't involve making other players "feel bad", realize that in a multiplayer game you advance yourself at expense of other players. You are always competing with someone else and when they lose to you they will feel bad automatically. You take 0.0 territory and deny everyone else access especially the new players. You buy stuff for low prices to resell them at high prices, depriving someone else from their due profit. You mine out the asteroids so that later some newbie warps into the belt and wonder where has all the good ore has gone. You dump your datacores on the market and a whole bunch of other datacore sellers will feel bad about having to lower their prices.
Realize that EVE is just a game like any other game out there that people play to compete and win and be free of your misplaced sense of morality.
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Canis Trucido
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Posted - 2008.07.09 03:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Macareus
Originally by: Amastat
Saying theres no morals in EVE - believe it or not - is like saying there are no Goons.
There are no morally significant choices in EVE because there are no morally significant consequences - we're all flying around in made up internet spaceships.
Someone who helps you get your internet spaceships or doesn't steal your internet ore isn't morally more valuable, they just choose to play the game differently than those that would "steal" your internet ore.
To say that someone did something evil in EVE would be like saying your chess opponent made an evil move - it doesn't make sense since it's just a game.
dude I was wondering about that recently, like if thins you did in the game were moral, like if you did somethig nice for someone can you take pleasure out o it like it was a moral choice? cause that would mean that you did something wrong by stealing or some similar act. the way you put it, it makes so much sense.
your logic makes reassures me. May all your endevours be fruitful!
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Cal Sinai
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.07.09 03:57:00 -
[18]
This one time I suicide ganked a ship. Turns out the guy had been carrying almost his entire corps assets (tons of blueprints and expensive minerals) to start up production in another system. I felt really bad for him so I sold it all back to him at market prices (the stuff that didn't explode during him dieing of course).
-CEO of a piratey group of murderer people |
Khrillian
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.07.09 04:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Cal Sinai
This one time I suicide ganked a ship. Turns out the guy had been carrying almost his entire corps assets (tons of blueprints and expensive minerals) to start up production in another system. I felt really bad for him so I sold it all back to him at market prices (the stuff that didn't explode during him dieing of course).
Wow he's about as smart as someone who builds their house in a floodplain.
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MIa Hunj
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Posted - 2008.07.09 04:29:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Macareus
Originally by: Amastat
Saying theres no morals in EVE - believe it or not - is like saying there are no Goons.
There are no morally significant choices in EVE because there are no morally significant consequences - we're all flying around in made up internet spaceships.
Someone who helps you get your internet spaceships or doesn't steal your internet ore isn't morally more valuable, they just choose to play the game differently than those that would "steal" your internet ore.
To say that someone did something evil in EVE would be like saying your chess opponent made an evil move - it doesn't make sense since it's just a game.
On the contrary, there are morally significant choices in EVE because there are morally significant consequences - you are learning to produce "acceptable" excuses for immoral behavior. "It's just a game" is one of them.
Your chess example is misleading as well. Closer analogy would be if another player steals one of your chess pieces while you are not looking. ItĘs just a game, why not?
And following your logic, your credit card is just a number, right?
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.07.09 04:39:00 -
[21]
Originally by: MIa Hunj
Closer analogy would be if another player steals one of your chess pieces while you are not looking. ItĘs just a game, why not?
And following your logic, your credit card is just a number, right?
Can I play?
So long as there is no REAL damage done to the player/person in question then I don't see how what I do in game has any bearing on real life theft.
A CC number has a real value to it, as a game item belongs to CCP and has no real value to it as the asset can not be transferred out of CCP hands.
Before you site software, Software belongs to CCP and follows its own rules:http://www.investorwords.com
Any intangible asset that consists of human knowledge and ideas. Some examples are patents, copyrights, trademarks and software. Most such assets cannot be recongized on a balance sheet when internally generated, since it is very difficult to objectively value intellectual property assets (slightly different rules apply in the case of software). They can, however, be included in a balance sheet if acquired, which allows a more accurate valuation for the asset (that is, the acquisition cost).
Next question please.
Local and Covert cloaking Idea |
Traidor Disloyal
NightCrew
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Posted - 2008.07.09 04:42:00 -
[22]
For the first three months of the game it got in the way. After that I kicked it to the curb and haven't seen it since. It's more fun being the "bad guy", "scum" of Eve.
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Love is having a second account with a cov ops pilot |
Khrillian
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.07.09 04:55:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Khrillian on 09/07/2008 04:55:24
Originally by: MIa Hunj
On the contrary, there are morally significant choices in EVE because there are morally significant consequences - you are learning to produce "acceptable" excuses for immoral behavior. "It's just a game" is one of them.
Your chess example is misleading as well. Closer analogy would be if another player steals one of your chess pieces while you are not looking. ItĘs just a game, why not?
And following your logic, your credit card is just a number, right
Nothing about internet spaceships is morally significant.
Stealing a chess piece would be like ISK duping or other kinds of hacking in EVE (breaking the rules). If you damage CCP's hardware or cause downtime maybe there's a moral issue, but if you just create some internet spaceships for yourself, CCP bans you case closed no moral issues.
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.07.09 05:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Canis Trucido
Story about ethics and morals in EVE.
It's EVE. The game world is designed specifically to be harsh and 'dog-eat-dog'. To that end, no - you can do as you wish. Your wish was to put it back, fine. I wouldn't have.
To be honest - I've generally looked upon the experiences where others have taken advantage of my stupidity or naivety as learning experiences. IE: 'Well, I won't be doing that again.' Of course, I generally tend to go and try it on someone else because usually it looks like fun and made that person some nice ISK.
So really, up to you. But no-one will really be too upset for too long about this kind of thing in EVE. And if they are, thankfully, they won't last long.
Originally by: Rachel Vend
... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
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MIa Hunj
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Posted - 2008.07.09 05:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Bloody Rabbit
Originally by: MIa Hunj
Closer analogy would be if another player steals one of your chess pieces while you are not looking. ItĘs just a game, why not?
And following your logic, your credit card is just a number, right?
Can I play?
So long as there is no REAL damage done to the player/person in question then I don't see how what I do in game has any bearing on real life theft.
A CC number has a real value to it, as a game item belongs to CCP and has no real value to it as the asset can not be transferred out of CCP hands.
Before you site software, Software belongs to CCP and follows its own rules:http://www.investorwords.com
Any intangible asset that consists of human knowledge and ideas. Some examples are patents, copyrights, trademarks and software. Most such assets cannot be recongized on a balance sheet when internally generated, since it is very difficult to objectively value intellectual property assets (slightly different rules apply in the case of software). They can, however, be included in a balance sheet if acquired, which allows a more accurate valuation for the asset (that is, the acquisition cost).
Next question please.
Lawyer, eh?
The biggest excuse of any immoral jerk is that he is not breaking any laws (rules).
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MIa Hunj
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Posted - 2008.07.09 05:23:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Franga
Originally by: Canis Trucido
Story about ethics and morals in EVE.
It's EVE. The game world is designed specifically to be harsh and 'dog-eat-dog'. To that end, no - you can do as you wish. Your wish was to put it back, fine. I wouldn't have.
Incorrect, Eve was designed to be a sandbox, where players establish rules. It's people like you turned it into "dog-eat-dog" world.
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Tenoh
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Posted - 2008.07.09 05:49:00 -
[27]
And i hate this design,curse CCP for it!I hate CCP!
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Vikarion
Caldari
Onyx Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.09 05:56:00 -
[28]
I always keep my word in EvE, because I like not having to deal with the consequences of being a scammer or whatnot. But conscience? What's a conscience?
I will happily shoot you, pod you, steal your ore, and hunt you for weeks on end if I think it will be fun and/or profitable. I just won't lie to you.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.09 06:02:00 -
[29]
Just because you do something like blow up someone's ship or steal ore from someone doesn't mean you don't have morals. One can abide by a personal set of rules that may or may not coincide with someone elses rule set.
Example: I will kill anyone I feel like killing, but if I give them my word I won't, I will never go back on that. At least for the agreed upon amount of time. 
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION
Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
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Posted - 2008.07.09 06:22:00 -
[30]
I like to say I have morals still, allthough after recently having had a small tower ripped off when taking it offline as I wasn't gonna be in EvE enough for a month or so to make use of it fully,meh really to me there isn't any morality to EvE anymore. If it is there take it, all be it I try to avoid anything that will lead to protracted conflict in the shape of a uber war dec. But there is a ton of stuff essentially floating out there for the taking.
I don't participate in piracy, but if I see a juicy can or wreck or item sitting waiting to be taken, I'm gonna give it a shot if I have the resources to take it at my disposal,same as what happened to me.
Morality? keep that out of EvE it has no place here.
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