Originally by: Ashen Angel

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Originally by: Mozetta

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why are you even arguing this ashen? the data shows u were wrong. kian might be an ass about it but hes right.

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The data is statistics, which can be manipulated as needed most times to show what you want.

Especially when as he admits he is not even cosnidering the gaps in it because it wouldn't help his argument.

Plus I'm bored.

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Originally by: Ashen Angel

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Originally by: Avon

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Originally by: Ashen Angel

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Originally by: Mozetta

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why are you even arguing this ashen? the data shows u were wrong. kian might be an ass about it but hes right.

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The data is statistics, which can be manipulated as needed most times to show what you want.

Especially when as he admits he is not even cosnidering the gaps in it because it wouldn't help his argument.

Plus I'm bored.

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At least he went to the effort to present some facts tbh.

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Actually he posted assumptions and opinions based on statistics.

My facts are: they are making the changes to cut down on grief style PvP combat, opened up faction warfare as an outlet for combat in high sec that makes PvP combat a choice (even offering npc corps to join... but as we can see they don't have the numbers of the regular NPC corporations)

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Key is combat oriented pvp, which the changes affect.

the numbers in the statistics include: mission runners, hauler alts, etc That never engage another player in combat.

The changes affect player vs player combat.

that is the key, non-combat pvp is not being affected.

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Originally by: Ki An

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Originally by: Ashen Angel

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so where does it show most players engage in player vs player combat and shoot at each other?

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It doesn't. It doesn't have to. What it most clearly DOES NOT show is that most people in Eve don't like PvP LIKE YOU CLAIMED IT DID!

ROFL, you are so dense it's almost not funny anymore. Almost.

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Originally by: Ashen Angel

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Originally by: Mozetta

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Quote:

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Key is combat oriented pvp, which the changes affect.

the numbers in the statistics include: mission runners, hauler alts, etc That never engage another player in combat.

The changes affect player vs player combat.

that is the key, non-combat pvp is not being affected.

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what r u talking about? u said that most people in eve dont likee to pvp. u where wrong.

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nope my stance has always been ship to ship pvp combat is not the focus of most of eve's player base.

There is no action that is not player vs player conflict.

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Originally by: Ki An

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Originally by: Ashen Angel

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Tsk tsk: My statement has always been they don't like the player to player combat.

Key word you want to drop: combat

So yes it has to show it.

Because all your whinging is about changes to combat between players.

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NO!

The argument you put forth was that most of Eve's population does not like PvP. Combat or not, doesn't matter, but let's say you said combat PvP just for the hell of it.

The data shows that more than half of Eve's population regularly move about in high risk areas, meaning they willingly accept the risk of PvP. They don't shelter themselves in high sec LIKE YOU CLAIMED.

The data shows that of those that remain in high sec, a large proportion are new players and alts. Not hard core carebears who don't like PvP LIKE YOU CLAIMED.

This will be my last response to you. Talking to you is like having a conversation with a brick wall. Actually, I think a brick wall would offer more intelligent observations than you do.

Good night, little Angel. I hope you don't drown in your own drool.

@Mozetta: I am so ****ing tired of arguing with this guy I feel no sympathy for your "no insults" crap. Sorry.

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Actually no he showed people would leave empire, but 49% stay in empire.

His assumption is that none of those leaving empire did so for reasons other than to shoot at each other.

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Sorry, Mozetta, but that's just a bit off. The economic report was tracking movement of characters which it assumed were main characters. Check this quote out: "The characters that are not accessed or do not move between systems are most likely alternate characters for subscribers. We therefore assume that these jumps show us the movement of main characters on each subscription account and are therefore representative for the movement of the main population in EVE."(4th paragraph of page 4) and "49% of all pilots moved only within high security areas (high-sec)"(1st paragraph of page 5).

That means that the 49% they're talking about who never leave high sec are assumed by the report to be main characters. Like I've said before, Ki An's analysis is flawed. It contains erroneous interpretations and some of the numbers he just made up. The conclusion of such an analysis has almost no hope of being accurate in any way.

Windjammer

P.S. Here's the URL of the report if you want to check it out for yourself.
http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/pdf/QEN_Q4-2007.pdf
Read it and see if what I've said above is true or not. I've referenced the quotes to page and paragraph of that report. It'll take a while to load. Unfortunately someone thought it would be cool to insert a bunch of pictures in the report and as a result it loads slowly.

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Debatable: the three top ships are caldari missile boats. And quite common for mission runners, and only the raven being considered by most to be a PvP combat ship (The frigate and cruiser can be used for it, though most seem to sneer at missiles)

Caldari also has the largest player population.

Till they can break down the mission runners from the combat players there will be a question there.

But more telling was the fact mining and industrial ships were also in the the top numbers, versus other racial combat ships finishing out the top slots.

The snapshots also showed most operated predominantly in high sec space (with a portion entering low sec), the 'safe' areas of eve. (with consideration for travel through low sec)

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