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Vittorian
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Posted - 2008.07.12 00:06:00 -
[1]
hehe just payed for my 2nd account and saw on evemon that it will take 107 days to get all learning skills to lvl5... tbh guys, that sucks balls... I mean I have to pay you guys for over 3 months just to get a toon to max learning speed? Ofc like everybody else he's learning cybernetics 4 atm so I can plug him with +4s, so it will prolly be a bit shorter then 3 months..but still...
I seriously do think the learning over time system does work rather well, but.. it kinda blows that you can't speed it up if you put effort (gametime you pay for) into it..same like you need to put effort into grinding isk..
My suggestion is; keep the current skill-over-time system, remove learning skills, remove attribute+ implants, introduce a mechanic that enables a player to speed up skill training.
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Vittorian
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Posted - 2008.07.12 00:06:00 -
[2]
hehe just payed for my 2nd account and saw on evemon that it will take 107 days to get all learning skills to lvl5... tbh guys, that sucks balls... I mean I have to pay you guys for over 3 months just to get a toon to max learning speed? Ofc like everybody else he's learning cybernetics 4 atm so I can plug him with +4s, so it will prolly be a bit shorter then 3 months..but still...
I seriously do think the learning over time system does work rather well, but.. it kinda blows that you can't speed it up if you put effort (gametime you pay for) into it..same like you need to put effort into grinding isk..
My suggestion is; keep the current skill-over-time system, remove learning skills, remove attribute+ implants, introduce a mechanic that enables a player to speed up skill training.
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Christari Zuborov
Amarr
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.07.12 00:17:00 -
[3]
Training to level 5 before you need to is a waste.
Crunch some numbers and come back.
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Christari Zuborov
Amarr
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.07.12 00:17:00 -
[4]
Training to level 5 before you need to is a waste.
Crunch some numbers and come back.
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Chris Stormrider
Gallente
IDEON ANDRON
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Posted - 2008.07.12 00:52:00 -
[5]
i'd train cybernetics to 1 and use +3 implants, which are cheap, train simple learning skills to 4, the learning skill to 4 and then advanced learning to 4. if you care do the simple learning to 5. There are some guides going around for this kind of thing, stating exactly which road is the fastest (you can figure it out yourself by checking the primary and secondary attributes but it'll take to much space to explain here). also, I'm not sure it's in the right topic here, maybe some other part of the forums would get this answered better/faster
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Vessper
Indicium Technologies
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Posted - 2008.07.12 01:15:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Chris Stormrider
i'd train cybernetics to 1 and use +3 implants, which are cheap, train simple learning skills to 4, the learning skill to 4 and then advanced learning to 4. if you care do the simple learning to 5.
This is sound advice although I'm a firm believer that, in the first few weeks of a pilot's life, mixing up learning skills with those that you need to accomplish things in game, is probably most important. If you can afford to sit back for a couple of months and train nothing but learning skills then all the better later on. I suspect most new players though would rather just jump in and have fun 
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Vittorian
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Posted - 2008.07.18 00:32:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Vessper
Originally by: Chris Stormrider
i'd train cybernetics to 1 and use +3 implants, which are cheap, train simple learning skills to 4, the learning skill to 4 and then advanced learning to 4. if you care do the simple learning to 5.
This is sound advice although I'm a firm believer that, in the first few weeks of a pilot's life, mixing up learning skills with those that you need to accomplish things in game, is probably most important. If you can afford to sit back for a couple of months and train nothing but learning skills then all the better later on. I suspect most new players though would rather just jump in and have fun
meh this still doesn't negate the fact that a new amarr amarr toon with +4 implants needs about 20 days to get all learning skills to lvl4. Tbh guys that's crap and poor gamemechanics. Devs I do get your idea of 'oo lvling on a timescale and choosing to get it to the next lvl5 platform', but it's kinda more frustrating then fun.
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leich
Amarr
Fritter Transport Co.
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Posted - 2008.07.21 12:16:00 -
[8]
I dont agree. I was able to start an alt get him up to skill for what i wanted him for in like 2 days. then start on the learning skills. with implants and such getting the learning skills to 5 isnt so important you can always come back to them this doing things this way means yes your probably loosing time in the long run but i think this is tiny considering you can use the char your paying for,
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Imperial Servants
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Posted - 2008.07.21 12:33:00 -
[9]
If you want to train spaceship command skills (cruiser, frigat) or gunnery skills, then train perception and willpower to what ever level you think is adequate. Don't bother training intelligence, memory or charisma, as they are not needed for spaceship command skill and just a waste of your time.
Besides, it's not a requirement to train learning skills before anything else.
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Q'om
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Posted - 2008.07.21 12:54:00 -
[10]
Sorry to disagree with some of the posters above but the problem I have with the learning skill is that they are absolutely necessary and should therefore be given to level 3-4 from the start.
From a gameplay perspective, what is the point of grinding learning skills other than to delay grinding more useful and enjoyable skill? Is there sole purpose to delay access to cruiser level skills? I find that a little dumb.
Best regards
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Kim kitori
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.21 23:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Vittorian
hehe just payed for my 2nd account and saw on evemon that it will take 107 days to get all learning skills to lvl5... tbh guys, that sucks balls... I mean I have to pay you guys for over 3 months just to get a toon to max learning speed? Ofc like everybody else he's learning cybernetics 4 atm so I can plug him with +4s, so it will prolly be a bit shorter then 3 months..but still...
I seriously do think the learning over time system does work rather well, but.. it kinda blows that you can't speed it up if you put effort (gametime you pay for) into it..same like you need to put effort into grinding isk..
My suggestion is; keep the current skill-over-time system, remove learning skills, remove attribute+ implants, introduce a mechanic that enables a player to speed up skill training.
Go back to WoW child. This game is for casual players. We dont want to play 24hours and grind our skills.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Imperial Servants
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Posted - 2008.07.22 08:27:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Q'om
Sorry to disagree with some of the posters above but the problem I have with the learning skill is that they are absolutely necessary and should therefore be given to level 3-4 from the start.
From a gameplay perspective, what is the point of grinding learning skills other than to delay grinding more useful and enjoyable skill? Is there sole purpose to delay access to cruiser level skills? I find that a little dumb.
Best regards
The learning skill are there to speed up training at the cost of progression and for the player who has decided to stay. It is your choice to wait with your more useful skill for a reward later on.
You can chose to train Frig and Cruiser skills instead.
Yes, in order to train the fastest you have to train learning skills, but lacking learning skills does not prevent you from training anything, so they are not required.
Personally, I would train "basic (rank 1-5)" skills to 2-3 before thinking of training learning skills. That way, I have some useful skill to play with and the time I have not GAINED, is minimal.
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Lothris Andastar
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Posted - 2008.07.22 11:29:00 -
[13]
Here's a hint: use EvEMon to plan your skills. In actual fact, training your learning skills firsts means that you actually get your cruiser and haxx skills faster than if you had trained them without the Learning skills! |
Q'om
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Posted - 2008.07.22 14:18:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Here's a hint: use EvEMon to plan your skills. In actual fact, training your learning skills firsts means that you actually get your cruiser and haxx skills faster than if you had trained them without the Learning skills!
My point exactly. This is exactly what I've done. The idea I would like to convey is if "grinding" learning skill is absolutely necessary (I believe this to be the case) why not then give them away or revise the time it takes to learn new skills.
How many new player guides have you seen that do not say "grind your learning first"?
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korrey
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.07.22 14:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kim kitori
Originally by: Vittorian
hehe just payed for my 2nd account and saw on evemon that it will take 107 days to get all learning skills to lvl5... tbh guys, that sucks balls... I mean I have to pay you guys for over 3 months just to get a toon to max learning speed? Ofc like everybody else he's learning cybernetics 4 atm so I can plug him with +4s, so it will prolly be a bit shorter then 3 months..but still...
I seriously do think the learning over time system does work rather well, but.. it kinda blows that you can't speed it up if you put effort (gametime you pay for) into it..same like you need to put effort into grinding isk..
My suggestion is; keep the current skill-over-time system, remove learning skills, remove attribute+ implants, introduce a mechanic that enables a player to speed up skill training.
Go back to WoW child. This game is for casual players. We dont want to play 24hours and grind our skills.
Give him some leeway, at least he didn't suggest replacing the old attributes with "Archery", "Bludgeoning" and "Blunt Instruments".
The game takes time. We already know this. As for the die hard learner skills people, you're pretty much wrong. Yes training your learning skills to 5 is great and all, but it is not necessary.
I never touched advanced learning skills until 4-5 months after I started playing. Why? Because hopping into cruisers didn't take that long (1-2 days). No need.
I trained learning skills when I knew I was going for Command Ships, because I knew Amarr Cruiser 5 would take foreeeeeeeever. (And I wasn't dissapointed :\ )
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Amarr- If you like to handicap yourself before the fight begins, then we may accomodate your needs surprisingly well. |
Hatch
Minmatar
Bug-Blatter Beasts of Traal
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Posted - 2008.07.22 15:10:00 -
[16]
oh FFS. why do people constantly complain about this. you've already been given 1mil sp. A large gain from the 30-50k sp you started with 5 years ago. you people that whine about the learning skills need to go back to a game that doesn't require you to invest time in creating a character. something that is mind numbing. i hear WoW is good for that.
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Blanked Protection
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.07.23 05:32:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hatch
oh FFS. why do people constantly complain about this. you've already been given 1mil sp. A large gain from the 30-50k sp you started with 5 years ago. you people that whine about the learning skills need to go back to a game that doesn't require you to invest time in creating a character. something that is mind numbing. i hear WoW is good for that.
Well tbh i disagree a bit with this.
Its a little bit insane that the time difference between lvl 4 and 5 can be between 3-4 weeks.
At least that part should be more in balance actually.
For example: lvl 4 "Tactical Shield Manipulation" is 4-5 days. To get it on lvl 5 is is almost 1 month and if you have good learning skills and +4 implant 20-24 days.
CCP should have at least cut that a little.
Cruise Missle lvl 5 19-22 days etc etc etc.
Beside the fact i have those skills already on lvl 5 i still have some skills to go for lvl 5. And all going to take between 20-25 days. Its a bid insane and very frustrating indeed.
So some new learning skills or other ways to reduce training time would not be a bad idea.
But again ppl are talking about on the forum for ages and CCP is not going to make it any better.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Imperial Servants
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Posted - 2008.07.23 10:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Blanked Protection
Originally by: Hatch
oh FFS. why do people constantly complain about this. you've already been given 1mil sp. A large gain from the 30-50k sp you started with 5 years ago. you people that whine about the learning skills need to go back to a game that doesn't require you to invest time in creating a character. something that is mind numbing. i hear WoW is good for that.
Well tbh i disagree a bit with this.
Its a little bit insane that the time difference between lvl 4 and 5 can be between 3-4 weeks.
At least that part should be more in balance actually.
For example: lvl 4 "Tactical Shield Manipulation" is 4-5 days. To get it on lvl 5 is is almost 1 month and if you have good learning skills and +4 implant 20-24 days.
CCP should have at least cut that a little.
Cruise Missle lvl 5 19-22 days etc etc etc.
Beside the fact i have those skills already on lvl 5 i still have some skills to go for lvl 5. And all going to take between 20-25 days. Its a bid insane and very frustrating indeed.
So some new learning skills or other ways to reduce training time would not be a bad idea.
But again ppl are talking about on the forum for ages and CCP is not going to make it any better.
Firstly, lvl 5 is specializing, so it should take a long time. It is also there, that new players catch up on you (in the 20-25 days you use to train Cruiser 5, they can train lvl 1 to 4 in cruiser).
Secondly, the multiplier is the same throughout the level of a skill. If it takes 5 minutes to train to lvl 1, and the multiplier is 5, then it takes 25 minutes to get lvl 2. 2h 5m for lvl 3, 10h 25m for lvl 4 and 2d 4h 5m to get lvl 5.
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