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Cagir Viscosity	Posted - 2008.07.12 22:29:00 - [61] Originally by: Barrien Truespike The way I understand it it would be the previous investors that are sending isk, correct? No idea, i just noticed that myself and atleast one other person is not on the new investor reserve list.
Arilius NED-Clan	Posted - 2008.07.12 22:36:00 - [62] A total of 500 000 000 isk sent for 500 shares.
John Holt Caldari Tovil-Toba's Elite Guard	Posted - 2008.07.12 22:37:00 - [63] Originally by: Barrien Truespike The way I understand it it would be the previous investors that are sending isk, correct? That is incorrect. If your name is in that post you may send the funds. John Holt My Personal Eve Site
Kvander Godalming	Posted - 2008.07.12 23:56:00 - [64] Quote: These reservations I hope you are doing because you feel confident in this IPO. People reserving shares pending further investigation sounds like to me you are waiting for one of the more senior members of the MD community to tell people whether or not to invest and what they should be asking. I said "reserving" because he specified that current investors get first pick. Probably the same with most others. Holt/Tuttle seem to have a good enterprise running -- rave reviews and such. Speaking personally, I don't need (another) audit to know his business is probably legit.
WonderBoy Weltmacht oder Niedergang	Posted - 2008.07.13 00:08:00 - [65] I'll reserve 1000 shares, thanks
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2008.07.13 00:12:00 - [66] I am rather confused by this IPO. Now you ran the Plato Fund which seemed very successful! You grew it from 1.2B to 4B in 7 weeks, and made an average of 16.6% profit per week. On 4B that is about 660M ISk profit per week That means 2.65B profit per month Now you want to trade it all in to run a manufacturing IPO that you estimate returns of between 10-15% on 14B, which is 1.4-2.1B ISK per month. Now my question is why do you fold a good business only to open a LESS profitable one. There are a few other inconsitencies: 1. I thought you did a buyback on the Plato Fund, so why do you need 4B to take it over 2. You state in the final report on 7th July 2008, that you will launch a new IPO in 2 months, but you waited 5 days? Now I may be wrong about the above 2 points, so please correct me. I just feel at the moment this seems a bit fishy, and that this MAY LOOK LIKE that you ran a very successful SCAM fund to further entice investors. I think that you should submit to a final audit of the characters in the Plato Fund to see if you did actually generate the returns claimed. If this audit turns out OK, then you should raise the capital easily. I would recommend Kaz or Shar for this. I don't think there can be any issues with confidentiality as they are completely trusted by the whole community.
Kwint Sommer Caldari Lothian Quay Industries	Posted - 2008.07.13 01:16:00 - [67] Wow. It takes 65 responses and the IPO being sold out a couple of times over before a single person bothers to run the numbers.... I'm gone for 1 day, just 1 fricking day while I drive down to Martha's Vineyard and I come back to see the Irrational Exuberance thread. What happened to the cynical and paranoid MD I use to know and love? Forget the fact that it took 65 replies to point out some seriously concerning math, I can't believe it took 65 replies before the first so much suggestion of a conspiracy theory emerged. My god, YouGotRipped is making it sound legit, that alone should have resulted in questioning.... Irrational exuberance indeed. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
Maestro Del'Tirith Del'Tirith Holdings	Posted - 2008.07.13 03:54:00 - [68] I'm willing to take the 500 mil paid out to me inclusive of my principle from the Plato Fund and 'let it ride'. ISK has been sent. Incidentally, I think your numbers are flawed as, frankly, you are comparing actuals with estimates - that isn't apples to apples. They estimated the exact same % returns on the last one. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that industry is a nice change from staring at the market screen on occasion. Provided sufficient capital you also have the benefit of being able to fix your cost so you can only focus on the revenue side of the equation.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2008.07.13 04:13:00 - [69] Originally by: Maestro Del'Tirith Edited by: Maestro Del''Tirith on 13/07/2008 03:55:32 I'm willing to take the 500 mil paid out to me inclusive of my principle from the Plato Fund and 'let it ride'. ISK has been sent. Incidentally, I think your numbers are flawed as, frankly, you are comparing actuals with estimates - that isn't apples to apples. They estimated the exact same % returns on the last one. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that industry is a nice change from staring at the market screen on occasion. Provided sufficient capital you also have the benefit of being able to fix your cost so you can only focus on the revenue side of the equation. As a whole, they were obviously spending a crap load of time on it and frankly I was concerned burnout might be an issue...since more than I put in came back out, I wasn't exactly overly worried. In either case, hind sight will no doubt be 20/20 The funny thing with business cases, allows people to make judgements. Now when doing trading there is no upper limit. If you can make 16.6% profit per week on a 14B manufacturing IPO then you are the greatest industrialist in Eve my friend
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.07.13 04:40:00 - [70] Originally by: cosmoray If you can make 16.6% profit per week on a 14B manufacturing IPO then you are the greatest industrialist in Eve my friend or your minerals are FREEEEEEE!!!!!! carry on John, sorry for the derail --

Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2008.07.13 04:43:00 - [71] Isk sent.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2008.07.13 05:02:00 - [72] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Wow. It takes 65 responses and the IPO being sold out a couple of times over before a single person bothers to run the numbers.... Yet another wild assumption. Do you really think I submitted my isk without running the numbers? Yes, there is a chance that the Plato fund was a set up to give them the ability to scam 13b from investors at a later date. There is a chance that the money I have given them will disappear in a puff of smoke. I'm prepared to take that chance based on the research I have done. Wether I believe that the other investors have done the same level of research or not is another matter, but I personally am happy with where I have put my isk.
John Holt Caldari Tovil-Toba's Elite Guard	Posted - 2008.07.13 05:48:00 - [73] Edited by: John Holt on 13/07/2008 05:54:11 Originally by: cosmoray I am rather confused by this IPO. Now you ran the Plato Fund which seemed very successful! You grew it from 1.2B to 4B in 7 weeks, and made an average of 16.6% profit per week. On 4B that is about 660M ISk profit per week That means 2.65B profit per month Now you want to trade it all in to run a manufacturing IPO that you estimate returns of between 10-15% on 14B, which is 1.4-2.1B ISK per month. Now my question is why do you fold a good business only to open a LESS profitable one. First, I would take exception with the idea I'm folding a business. My first goal was to expand the fund from 1.3 billion to 4 billion. I did that using investor's money. My goal now is to grow the 4 billion to 14 billion by using the fund AND an industrial approach. So I don't see it as closing a good business to open a less profitable one. I was conservative in my estimates of what the IPO would make per month. Just like your IPO, which I took part in, I'm only paying out a percentage of the profit (65%) each month. You are looking at the fund's contribution alone, but I think you need to take into account the industrial side of it as well. Quote: There are a few other inconsitencies: 1. I thought you did a buyback on the Plato Fund, so why do you need 4B to take it over? John and Sarah bought full interest in the fund. They are now selling their full interest in the fund to Plato Industries which is made up of investors. This insures that Plato Industries will make a profit in the range I predicted BEFORE it begins its industrial activities which should add even more profit in the long run. Quote: 2. You state in the final report on 7th July 2008, that you will launch a new IPO in 2 months, but you waited 5 days? At the time I wrote that report I had not considered making the fund part of the industrial IPO. I estimated that two months for additional training and getting the industrial side off the ground before making the IPO. Once I thought of using the fund that pushed things forward since the fund would insure profits from day one. Quote: Now I may be wrong about the above 2 points, so please correct me. I just feel at the moment this seems a bit fishy, and that this MAY LOOK LIKE that you ran a very successful SCAM fund to further entice investors. I think that you should submit to a final audit of the characters in the Plato Fund to see if you did actually generate the returns claimed. If this audit turns out OK, then you should raise the capital easily. I would recommend Kaz or Shar for this. I don't think there can be any issues with confidentiality as they are completely trusted by the whole community. I have no problem submitting the fund to another audit if that is what investors want. It seems a little silly since I had an audit which affirmed their profits just a few weeks back, however, I would remind potential investors here that not only did I return an average of 16% to the fund investors per week, but I also bought them out for their initial investment plus 20%. I don't see how anyone could see a scam in that. John Holt My Personal Eve Site
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2008.07.13 05:50:00 - [74] Posted seperately, so as not to get lost: John, I'd like to take another 1 billion bringing my total up to 2 billion please. I'll send the isk as soon as the post on the first page reflects the new value of my reservation. This is all I will be taking on this occasion, if this had been timed when I wasn't both expanding my businesses and launching my own IPO I may have put more in. But since your stated aim is to raise your reputation across the EVE community it is probably best that I do not take such a large swathe of your IPO so as to exclude others from it. I wish you the best of fortune in the comming year.
Letias Caldari Poofdinkles	Posted - 2008.07.13 06:13:00 - [75] What if you get hit by a bus? _____________________________ Originally by: Damini Frostmane Sex isn't sex unless one of you is crying afterwards :-)
Namco Balls of Steel	Posted - 2008.07.13 06:15:00 - [76] Curious why I was left off the list, despite posting that I'd like to have put 500mil into this? I was under the impression that you posted your interest, waited for that to be added to the list, then sent the isk. Is this not correct?
Ernie Wise Bring Me Sunshine	Posted - 2008.07.13 06:18:00 - [77] Originally by: Letias What if you get hit by a bus? Quote: In the unlikely even that both John and Sarah should perish instructions will be left on our computers for our children to dissolve the corporation and make returns to the investors. Reading FTW
John Holt Caldari Tovil-Toba's Elite Guard	Posted - 2008.07.13 06:23:00 - [78] Originally by: Letias What if you get hit by a bus? As the IPO says, if both my wife and I happen to meet our demise we will leave instructions on our computers to our children to close out the IPO. My son has played Eve in the past and is a big fan of other MMOs, so he shouldn't have any problems taking care of this if necessary. John Holt My Personal Eve Site
John Holt Caldari Tovil-Toba's Elite Guard	Posted - 2008.07.13 06:25:00 - [79] Originally by: Namco Curious why I was left off the list, despite posting that I'd like to have put 500mil into this? I was under the impression that you posted your interest, waited for that to be added to the list, then sent the isk. Is this not correct? Not sure how I missed you, but you are on the list now. John Holt My Personal Eve Site
Namco Balls of Steel	Posted - 2008.07.13 06:34:00 - [80] 500M ISK sent.

Synseer Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.07.13 06:39:00 - [81] any shares left? I am willing to buy 1000 shares.
HawkBlade Minmatar Starlancers	Posted - 2008.07.13 06:39:00 - [82] Originally by: Letias What if you get hit by a bus? Interestingly enough, my wife has spoken up regarding this kind of clause. Mind you her opinions of the Eve community is highly colored from what bits I share. But, if I should get hit by a bus or otherwise expire she's quite adamant that you can all go to hell. That being said, I expect that my Eve teammates will do the right thing by you people (Athre already handles 25 Billion+ weekly in eBank withdrawals for many of you) though I suspect that they will take their sweet ass time to do whatever they feel is right. I doubt I will care at that point. PS: I just find that people who fail to read the "bus" clause and then ask about it need to be told the real truth. If I do, or any project manager, pass away... be reassured, your feelings and virtual possessions are the least of my (or their) concerns. I doubt Kenneth Lay is the least bit concerned about his former investors.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2008.07.13 06:44:00 - [83] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Letias What if you get hit by a bus? Interestingly enough, my wife has spoken up regarding this kind of clause. Mind you her opinions of the Eve community is highly colored from what bits I share. But, if I should get hit by a bus or otherwise expire she's quite adamant that you can all go to hell. That being said, I expect that my Eve teammates will do the right thing by you people (Athre already handles 25 Billion+ weekly in eBank withdrawals for many of you) though I suspect that they will take their sweet ass time to do whatever they feel is right. I doubt I will care at that point. PS: I just find that people who fail to read the "bus" clause and then ask about it need to be told the real truth. If I do, or any project manager, pass away... be reassured, your feelings and virtual possessions are the least of my (or their) concerns. I doubt Kenneth Lay is the least bit concerned about his former investors. Well said, that man. I expect if I were to ask my wife to pick up the pieces of my EVE empire after I expired it would hasten my demise somewhat Rule #1: It's just a game.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.07.13 07:10:00 - [84] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 13/07/2008 07:13:45 Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Letias What if you get hit by a bus? Interestingly enough, my wife has spoken up regarding this kind of clause. Mind you her opinions of the Eve community is highly colored from what bits I share. But, if I should get hit by a bus or otherwise expire she's quite adamant that you can all go to hell. That being said, I expect that my Eve teammates will do the right thing by you people (Athre already handles 25 Billion+ weekly in eBank withdrawals for many of you) though I suspect that they will take their sweet ass time to do whatever they feel is right. I doubt I will care at that point. Does effortless action mean anything to you? What about spontaneity? Motherships
HawkBlade Minmatar Starlancers	Posted - 2008.07.13 07:18:00 - [85] Originally by: YouGotRipped Does effortless action mean anything to you? What about spontaneity? "Mind you" it is all connected to what already eluded you in the past. Thank you for the bumpage!
Nuttski The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.13 07:43:00 - [86] I seemed to ask for shares before yougotripped and yet I'm not on the list?
HawkBlade Minmatar Starlancers	Posted - 2008.07.13 07:57:00 - [87] Originally by: Nuttski I seemed to ask for shares before yougotripped and yet I'm not on the list? YGR cheated a bit by editing an earlier post. What am I saying... YGR edits all of his posts. Still he slipped in above many others by editing his reservation into the beginning of the thread.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.07.13 08:01:00 - [88] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 13/07/2008 08:04:11 Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Nuttski I seemed to ask for shares before yougotripped and yet I'm not on the list? YGR cheated a bit by editing an earlier post. What am I saying... YGR edits all of his posts. Still he slipped in above many others by editing his reservation into the beginning of the thread. Calm down kids, I'm not very fond of lolly pops, if there were no "slots" left I would gladly give my shares to those who "really" need them. Problem is to this moment I didn't receive any. P.S. n'th edit Motherships
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2008.07.13 08:03:00 - [89] That said, I think any way you cut it YGR came in under the bar and would get his shares anyway. Only the last few reservations look like they may be excluded.
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2008.07.13 08:10:00 - [90] Originally by: Ricdics Originally by: John Holt if both my wife and I happen to meet our demise we will leave instructions on our computers to our children to close out the IPO. If you have both already perished won't it already be a bit too late to leave instructions for the kids? Ah, the syntax police have entered the building...



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