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Dantes Revenge
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Posted - 2008.07.12 13:47:00 -
[1]
Take a look
 EA does it again. Securom claims a victim.
Apparently, the game when it is released will use the same protection as the current retail version of the creature creator, Securom.
--
There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. |
P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.12 13:50:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Dantes Revenge
EA does it again.
Anybody surprised?
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Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.07.12 13:52:00 -
[3]
Le sigh.
That kind of ******ed protection only gives people more incentive to get pirated games.
Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.07.12 13:57:00 -
[4]
Its the exact same protection that Mass Effect PC has, with the same limitations and restrictions.
I'll probably purchase the game then download a cracked exe and play it that way, just like I have for ME. Atleast, until they provide a deactivation tool, which at present isn't available.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.12 14:01:00 -
[5]
Oh well, guess I'll be pirating it then. Shame, I think I would have paid for it otherwise.
------
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
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Bjusterbaarlik
Blue Moon Holding LTD
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Posted - 2008.07.12 14:03:00 -
[6]
Honestly, people still buy games from EA?
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.07.12 14:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Bjusterbaarlik
Honestly, people still buy games from EA?
If it appears to be worth it, yes. I don't play their Sport Games (since I really dislike those) but others, yes. EA is just a publisher, the studio developing the game is worthy of my support, which is what counts in my opinion.
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Dantes Revenge
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Posted - 2008.07.12 14:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Meiyang Lee
Originally by: Bjusterbaarlik
Honestly, people still buy games from EA?
If it appears to be worth it, yes. I don't play their Sport Games (since I really dislike those) but others, yes. EA is just a publisher, the studio developing the game is worthy of my support, which is what counts in my opinion.
The developers of Spore are worthy of the support. From what I've seen and the look of the trial creature creator, it looks like the game has some real potential for lots of hours of fun. The problem that annoys me is the protection. If my OS crashes and I have to re-install the OS, which has happened a few times now, I end up having to pay again for the game just so I can continue to play it. Not good IMO, considering how flakey windows can be at times and it's put me off buying it completely now.
My suggestion is for anyone who is interested to lobby the devs of the game to put pressure on EA to drop this stupid protection and use something else instead. It's going to kill the sales and a potentially good income to the developers from a game that would otherwise be a big seller.
--
There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. |
P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.12 14:17:00 -
[9]
Edited by: P''uck on 12/07/2008 14:18:00
I still think any studio, that publishes through EA, doesn't deserve any money from us customers, until EA gets their friggin act together. It's not like the studios don't know what will happen to their games, when published by EA.
They kill what we love (videogames), we kill what they love (money).
Simple as that.
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Bjusterbaarlik
Blue Moon Holding LTD
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Posted - 2008.07.12 14:19:00 -
[10]
Ah ok sorry, I thought EA was not only the publisher, but also the developer of Spore. Still though, I would not buy a game anymore that was either published or developed by EA.
Then yeah, I agree that the developers deserve the support in the form of purchasing the game, however, a lot of that money is going towards EA anyway which bothers me.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.12 14:22:00 -
[11]
Edited by: P''uck on 12/07/2008 14:22:47
I don't know how those deals work out exactly, but I guess the developing studios are paid for their work, before a single copy is sold.
There might be a percentage of the profits going to the devs once the sales have started (well, I think there is), but it's not like the devs will starve/go out of business, because as I already mentioned, I think they are already paid.
somebody fill in the details or correct me if im wrong...
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Dantes Revenge
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Posted - 2008.07.12 14:32:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Dantes Revenge on 12/07/2008 14:33:15
Originally by: P'uck
Edited by: P''uck on 12/07/2008 14:22:47
I don't know how those deals work out exactly, but I guess the developing studios are paid for their work, before a single copy is sold.
There might be a percentage of the profits going to the devs once the sales have started (well, I think there is), but it's not like the devs will starve/go out of business, because as I already mentioned, I think they are already paid.
somebody fill in the details or correct me if im wrong...
Yes, thay have been paid a fee but the future of the studio (and the devs jobs) relies on sales and a percentage of the sales goes to the studio. If they don't make enough money, they go out of business and the devs have to start looking for another job. Even if they manage to make enough to stay running, it may mean staff cut-backs if profit margins are too slim.
Edit: clarity.
--
There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. |
Mankirks Wife
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Posted - 2008.07.12 14:54:00 -
[13]
This is why Steam is the only protection system I'm willing to deal with right now - you log in, and you have access to all your crap.
Sure you need to be online at the time (which isn't always possible for me) but it beats "buying" something only to be told you can't use it because your OS died or you bought a new computer.
I use Unbox from Amazon which has a lot of similar issues but I just rent crap from it - even though Amazon's always been really good about resetting my licenses it's just way too much of a pain in the ass to not be able to de-authorize a dead installation.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.12 15:11:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dantes Revenge
Yes, thay have been paid a fee but the future of the studio (and the devs jobs) relies on sales and a percentage of the sales goes to the studio.
Well there are trustworthy publishers out there, maybe sending a financial message that reaches the devs too, isnt too bad after all?
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.12 15:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mankirks Wife
Steam
you need to be online at the time
Another mechanism on the "Pirate it until they uncripple the retail version" list.
It never ceases to amuse me that these companies do their best to cause hassle for their own customers.
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DesuSigs |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.
Dawn of Transcendence
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Posted - 2008.07.12 15:36:00 -
[16]
ME didn't install anything on my PC concerning DRM... At least, no rootkits or other kinds of software show up. I don't know exactly how it works, but so far i don't have anything that could even remotely mess up anything on my pc.
I think people are still hung up on the starfarce. Securom isn't starforce, and if that's your sole reason for not buying games like Mass Effect and eventually Spore, you are really grasping for straws that aren't there to justify not spending money on a game you're going to spend quite a lot of hours on.
Can someone explain to me how exactly securom is bad? To my knowledge, it never screwed up anyone's pc, and the only problems i've heard of were when Bioshock was released and the servers were overloaded for a few hours. Whoop-dee-doo.
As for ME: The hacked versions for download didn't actually work. If they did, they only worked for the first 2 hours of gameplay, as the crack messed up some code concerning the star map :)
It was funny to see the thread in support... Only 1 thread posted, almost no replies, with tens of thousands of views (you can't post in the ME support forum unless you have a ME key). The poster probably thought he still needed the CD for playing, and downloaded a crack. The fact that the thread got so few replies and so many reads points out that quite a lot of people with the crack had the same problem :)
EVE History Wiki
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Jawas
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.12 15:39:00 -
[17]
I really don't unserstand anti-piracy methods at all. If it can be programmed, it can be hacked so all this development into new protection methods is just a waste of time and is costing the end user money for no good reason.
I also agree with someone who said that it increases the cost of the software so it makes it even more profitable for the pirates who sell ripped copies. Even the supposedly uncrackable Starforce protection has now been broken so it goes to show that nothing is foolproof. It may delay things a bit but when it causes inconvenience like this for the customers, they will be happy to wait a while longer for a cracked version.
What is really ironic is that this protection method already has been cracked and the creature creator with the same protection in is now available as a downloadable pirate copy from a well known torrent site.
--
Sig design in training: Remaining time 30 years 20 days, 4 hours, 10 mins, 15 seconds. |
P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.12 15:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Reiisha
Can someone explain to me how exactly securom is bad?
It makes you insert DVDs/CDs like a trained monkey for gratification?
If I BOUGHT it (and I usually pay for stuff I play) I want the right to use it without any restrictions. Am I being a *****? Maybe. But after all I work pretty hard for my money and I don't want to be ****ed with, when I spend it.
Unless we're talking hookers.
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.07.12 15:56:00 -
[19]
EA now comes in on a close second, on my WTF list on piracy protection list.
First place goes to Trackmania Nations, a free game, which comes with starforce  
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.07.12 16:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
EA now comes in on a close second, on my WTF list on piracy protection list.
First place goes to Trackmania Nations, a free game, which comes with starforce
Oh yeah, that gave me quite the WTF moment back then, too.
As well as several demos that do this.
They ususally explain it with something like ... if they release the demo/free version of a game without starforce, it's easier for crackers to get to the retail version for whatever bizarre reason, that keeps to elude me.
But yeah, my coding skills stop, roughly estimated, at BASIC and maybe some PASCAL.
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Mangala Solaris
Caldari
Ma'adim Logistics
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Posted - 2008.07.12 16:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Bjusterbaarlik
Ah ok sorry, I thought EA was not only the publisher, but also the developer of Spore. Still though, I would not buy a game anymore that was either published or developed by EA.
Then yeah, I agree that the developers deserve the support in the form of purchasing the game, however, a lot of that money is going towards EA anyway which bothers me.
Maxis used to be independent, then got bought and taken in-house by EA - like they did with Westwood back in the day (CnC devs). Will Wright is still loosely affiliated with Maxis and therefore EA are quite happy to bankroll Spore.
-------
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.12 17:29:00 -
[22]
Quote:
You must pay again.
Oh wow, amazing copy protection. Now if my HDD were ever to crash at any point i'd have to buy all my games again, great going EA! 
I like Steam but that's about it. It even has an offline mode dosen't it? limited uses but great if your net has an outage or something...
...
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.07.12 19:05:00 -
[23]
Man some of you people have some real POS systems if you have to reformat after a crash all the time.
But oh well, I'm not really up for such a gay game that has ***** monsters running amuck.
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.07.12 19:28:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Reiisha
ME didn't install anything on my PC concerning DRM... At least, no rootkits or other kinds of software show up. I don't know exactly how it works, but so far i don't have anything that could even remotely mess up anything on my pc.
I think people are still hung up on the starfarce. Securom isn't starforce, and if that's your sole reason for not buying games like Mass Effect and eventually Spore, you are really grasping for straws that aren't there to justify not spending money on a game you're going to spend quite a lot of hours on.
Can someone explain to me how exactly securom is bad? To my knowledge, it never screwed up anyone's pc, and the only problems i've heard of were when Bioshock was released and the servers were overloaded for a few hours. Whoop-dee-doo.
ME doesn't install anything, all its DRM does is contact the server at EA/Securom to verify 1 install of the maximum 3 for such and such key has been used. It does this on the first launch of the game, it probably sends along the hardware key aswell so that reinstalls on the same system and OS won't deduct another install from the set. If you are forced to reinstall the OS or make to many hardware changes it will deduct another install and so on until all 3 have been used. At that point the game becomes unusable.
My main issue with the system is that there is no way to recover installs. (unlike Bioshock, which now has a deactivation tool letting you recover them)
As far as I know EA and Bioware do not intend to EVER release such a tool rendering the game utterly useless after a couple of years. (assuming you don't have bad luck with HDD failures and such)
And I do replay a selection of older games now and then, and ME may very well join that selection since it is a lot of fun.
As for the cracked version not working, that's no longer true. Those released almost before release or immediately after indeed cut out the first time you can use the Starmap in the Normandy. (which I assume is another security checkpoint)
The crack I'm running on my otherwise perfectly legal ME install works flawlessly, it was released approximately 1 week after the release of the game. No issues at all, and I'm currently on my 5th play through of the game.
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Jack Caldwell
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Posted - 2008.07.12 19:46:00 -
[25]
*sighs*
I think I'll just pirate it and donate the retail price straight to the developers. 
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ivar R'dhak
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2008.07.12 20:16:00 -
[26]
Spored
¦nuff said. 
_
Mal-`Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦
Zoe-¦Big damn heroes sir.¦
Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.12 21:54:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Reiisha
I think people are still hung up on the starfarce. Securom isn't starforce, and if that's your sole reason for not buying games like Mass Effect and eventually Spore, you are really grasping for straws that aren't there to justify not spending money on a game you're going to spend quite a lot of hours on.
Can someone explain to me how exactly securom is bad? To my knowledge, it never screwed up anyone's pc, and the only problems i've heard of were when Bioshock was released and the servers were overloaded for a few hours. Whoop-dee-doo.
Basically, it limits you to three installs. This manes several things:
1) If you have the sheer gall to own more than 3 PCs that you play games on (not unusual for those of us with laptops, and who have desktops in several locations- I myself have 4 gaming PC's I use regularly) you'll have to buy more than one copy of the game. That'd be like buying a DVD, but only being able to watch it on 3 different players; should you want to, I don't know, watch it somewhere else, you'll need to buy several copies of the same DVD.
2) If you need to / decide to reinstall your OS (whether you're changing OS, reinstalling a system failure, or just upgrading) you lose one of your 3 installs. If you upgrade to a new PC, you lose one of your installs. If you run out of installs, you'll have to buy the game again.
3) If you get sick of the game, you're not able to resell it. You can't trade it in, eBay, sell it at a boot-sale, or give it away to a friend. Thats the equivalent of buying a car, driving it for 10,000 miles, deciding to sell it on, and it magically self-destructing.
No other industry (not even the sociopathic music industry) has the nerve to try this kind of thing. You can buy DVDs, music CDs, books, board-games, cars and clothes without being harassed like this. You can buy any of the above and it becomes yours, to do with (within legal reason) as you like, to resell or give away how you wish, and to use in any way (within the terms and conditions) that you want. The thought of books that self-destruct if more than 3 people read it is preposterous, but people seem willing to lie back and take it with computer games, just because the means of enforcing it is available.
And the crazy thing is, there's absolutely no evidence that it in any way works. To date there has NEVER been a copy-protection software that hasn't been cracked. Even the mighty Microsoft can't create un-crackable software with a multi billion dollar budget, and companies like EA haven't even come close. Hacked versions of the games are available within months of release, and are widespread all over the internet. All of those who were going to pirate are still going to pirate. Of those who may have been willing to pay, many will be persuaded to pirate (or simply not play at all) due to the obtrusive copy-protection. In the case of Spore, it'll involve buying new copies of the game every time you sneeze. With starforce (and others) it can even involve resource-munching back app processes, actually worsening the performance of the game its trying to protect (exhibit: X3). And it costs the publisher a small fortune to implement, too, effectively tying them in to a third party developer.
All it does is scare off potential customers and antagonise the law-abiding. Those who were going to pirate anyway will still be pirating. And you know what? Even if they did manage to make effective copy-protection that actually works, I'd bet that those pirating people aren't likely to buy the game anyway, so the company still doesn't gain anything out of it.
Stardock had it right...
------
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
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Sothis Antares
PBA Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.12 22:19:00 -
[28]
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Spored
¦nuff said.
indeed, i take this as that EA is a bunch of p'eniscreatures
_________________________________________________
devblogs are boring. so is mine :P
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.07.12 22:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Zaphroid Eulthran
Originally by: P'uck
Originally by: Reiisha
Can someone explain to me how exactly securom is bad?
It makes you insert DVDs/CDs like a trained monkey for gratification?
If I BOUGHT it (and I usually pay for stuff I play) I want the right to use it without any restrictions. Am I being a *****? Maybe. But after all I work pretty hard for my money and I don't want to be ****ed with, when I spend it.
Unless we're talking hookers.
All this fuss is about having to put a DVD in your PC to play the game?
Call me stupid (and someone will) but isnt that how games work? I always put CDs in to play the games I want.
In this case you don't even need that. ME doesn't require the DVD in the drive at all after installation. Its just that you're limited to 3 installs. (on 3 different system granted, but still only 3!)
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Zaphroid Eulthran
Minmatar
Imperial Visions
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Posted - 2008.07.12 22:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Meiyang Lee
Originally by: Zaphroid Eulthran
All this fuss is about having to put a DVD in your PC to play the game?
Call me stupid (and someone will) but isnt that how games work? I always put CDs in to play the games I want.
In this case you don't even need that. ME doesn't require the DVD in the drive at all after installation. Its just that you're limited to 3 installs. (on 3 different system granted, but still only 3!)
It limits the number of installations you can run off the disk you purchase? Ok that is wrong I see the reason for the fuss.
You all now have my official permission to continue ranting.
.
Hi-Sec Industry NEEDS Mini Freighters <- not T2 bazillion ISK alliance toys |
Remata Lakira
Terran Coalition
The Threshold
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Posted - 2008.07.12 22:56:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Remata Lakira on 12/07/2008 22:56:04
I don't even care about it anymore.
They made it too cartoony.
They took too long developing it.
They put anti-paying customer software on it.
They sabotaged their own product before it had even hit the shelves.
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Dantes Revenge
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Posted - 2008.07.13 05:21:00 -
[32]
The 3 PC limit isn't an issue if it really is 3 PC's and you could reinstall as many times as you need to on any one of them. What nags at me is that the limit is applied to the number of times it can be installed period.
Technically, you can de-register the key so you can re-install but honestly, how many times have you uninstalled a game because the OS has gone south. When the OS crashes, there's no way to get into it to de-register the key for the game so you've lost an install. Let's face it, Windows is not the most stable of available OS's and I've had my fair share of boot failures that can only be solved by a re-install. I've just installed Vista a month ago and already the firewall is shot away, the service won't start and it appears the registry entries are corrupt. M$ official answer - reinstall. My official answer - Third party firewall
I really think a lot of people are going to vote with their feet on this one. The people I feel sorry for are those who don't yet know about it and also those who will buy from the shop, not realising you have to be on the net to register the install before you can play it. If they are not on the internet at home they are done for, some shops won't allow you to return software. You can bet it won't say on the box that you have to be on the internet simply because, technically it isn't an online game.
All of the major copy protections have been cracked including Securom so this fiasco is little more than giving their customers the finger. So many big companies have done a Microsoft and thought they were too big to be affected. Companies like EA are going to find it comes back to bite them in the a$$ pretty quick when one of their majore releases ends up gathering dust on the shelves.
--
There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. |
Straight Chillen
Gallente
Solar Wind
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.07.13 05:57:00 -
[33]
yeah tbh, i bought the creature creator kit, its nifty enough, but after reading this shit, i doubt i will purchase spore
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Fraszoid
Caldari
ULTRA VEGA
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Posted - 2008.07.13 05:58:00 -
[34]
So far all the games I've gotten only have CD Keys to activate them. I've heard the stories about theses DRM implementations, and them getting cracked so I was wondering, how hard it is to replicate a piece of hardware, like an encrypted USB Stick.
As I understand it, they are getting pretty cheap, and surely its possible to encode something that makes the game run on it, and ship with the game. So you install the game, and just have to plug in the stick to run the game. That way its not easily cracked as the information is encoded on the actual stick, and not in an copyable files.
Would that work, or is my idea fundamentally flawed?
--------------------------------------------------
Everyone is born right handed, only the great over come it.
Check out my players guide at:
http://www.eve-miners.info/guide/minersguide.html |
Straight Chillen
Gallente
Solar Wind
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.07.13 06:13:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Fraszoid
So far all the games I've gotten only have CD Keys to activate them. I've heard the stories about theses DRM implementations, and them getting cracked so I was wondering, how hard it is to replicate a piece of hardware, like an encrypted USB Stick.
As I understand it, they are getting pretty cheap, and surely its possible to encode something that makes the game run on it, and ship with the game. So you install the game, and just have to plug in the stick to run the game. That way its not easily cracked as the information is encoded on the actual stick, and not in an copyable files.
Would that work, or is my idea fundamentally flawed?
this is what they do with certain types of programs, I know Lightwave 3d, a program for doing 3d modeling and animation, uses such technology (they refer to the USB stick as a dongle) And has been cracked with relative ease, as if ircc, the first cracked copies of lightwave 8 started appearing within a month of realease.
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Elysarian
Minmatar
dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2008.07.13 09:15:00 -
[36]
This thread is flawed on one vital point:
I had the exact same problem as the OP on the EA board -
1. When you download the Creature Creator for the first time you don't have to type in an activation key.
2. If you have to reinstall (for whatever reason) then it asks for a "CD Key", this is emailed to you when you register & (in some cases) end up in the "junk" email folder of your email client, this is also where it says "If you do not have a valid CD key, you will need to repurchase this software" or similar.
This is NOT a SecuROM issue - it's a user error.
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Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.
Dawn of Transcendence
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Posted - 2008.07.13 09:39:00 -
[37]
You know...
You can simply buy the game AND download the crack.
EVE History Wiki
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.07.13 09:53:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Reiisha
You know...
You can simply buy the game AND download the crack.
Which what I've done, best solution really. No install used, and a legal game to play.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.13 10:38:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Fraszoid
So far all the games I've gotten only have CD Keys to activate them. I've heard the stories about theses DRM implementations, and them getting cracked so I was wondering, how hard it is to replicate a piece of hardware, like an encrypted USB Stick.
As I understand it, they are getting pretty cheap, and surely its possible to encode something that makes the game run on it, and ship with the game. So you install the game, and just have to plug in the stick to run the game. That way its not easily cracked as the information is encoded on the actual stick, and not in an copyable files.
Would that work, or is my idea fundamentally flawed?
The only real flaw with the idea is assuming that, if it is on a USB stick, it's not a copyable (and thus crackable) set of files. When you plug a USB stick in to your computer, it essentially becomes as much a part of your computer as a CD in the CD drive or a file on your hard disk. In order for your computer to interact with it in any way, it needs to be able to read the data on the stick (that is, it needs to be able to access whatever encryption key or similar is on the stick).
The only thing stopping you simply copying the files on the stick and doing what you like with them is whatever encryption is applied. In this way, a USB stick has almost no advantages to doing exactly the same thing on a CD (which is what almost all modern computer programs do anyway, by making you put the CD in the drive every time you use the software). The only advantage that I can think of is that USB sticks are easier to write to, allowing you to store some of the user's registration details on the stick, giving an extra layer of verification checks.
To put it simply, there's no ground-breaking advantage to doing this with a USB stick instead of doing it with a CD, or with any other storage medium you'd care to mention. Some software packages choose to use USB sticks as "keys" for logistical reasons, but there's no fundamental difference between doing this with a USB drive or doing it with a CD, as people have been doing for decades.
------
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
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Elysarian
Minmatar
dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2008.07.13 11:16:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Patch86
Originally by: Fraszoid
So far all the games I've gotten only have CD Keys to activate them. I've heard the stories about theses DRM implementations, and them getting cracked so I was wondering, how hard it is to replicate a piece of hardware, like an encrypted USB Stick.
As I understand it, they are getting pretty cheap, and surely its possible to encode something that makes the game run on it, and ship with the game. So you install the game, and just have to plug in the stick to run the game. That way its not easily cracked as the information is encoded on the actual stick, and not in an copyable files.
Would that work, or is my idea fundamentally flawed?
The only real flaw with the idea is assuming that, if it is on a USB stick, it's not a copyable (and thus crackable) set of files. When you plug a USB stick in to your computer, it essentially becomes as much a part of your computer as a CD in the CD drive or a file on your hard disk. In order for your computer to interact with it in any way, it needs to be able to read the data on the stick (that is, it needs to be able to access whatever encryption key or similar is on the stick).
The only thing stopping you simply copying the files on the stick and doing what you like with them is whatever encryption is applied. In this way, a USB stick has almost no advantages to doing exactly the same thing on a CD (which is what almost all modern computer programs do anyway, by making you put the CD in the drive every time you use the software). The only advantage that I can think of is that USB sticks are easier to write to, allowing you to store some of the user's registration details on the stick, giving an extra layer of verification checks.
To put it simply, there's no ground-breaking advantage to doing this with a USB stick instead of doing it with a CD, or with any other storage medium you'd care to mention. Some software packages choose to use USB sticks as "keys" for logistical reasons, but there's no fundamental difference between doing this with a USB drive or doing it with a CD, as people have been doing for decades.
A Dongle does not necessarily have to have "data" on it in the normal sense of the word.
I work in the CCTV and Access Control industries and there is extensive use of older (Parallell) and newer (USB mainly) Dongles - most require the installation of a driver to access the device - meaning that there is more than just storage on there (the older type was sometimes just a set of close tolerance resistors that were read by the parallell interface through an A/D convertor) - some modern ones have microcontrollers built in to do processing tasks (generating hash keys?).
tl/dr? - there's more to a Dongle than there is to a USB memory stick.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.13 12:03:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Elysarian
A Dongle does not necessarily have to have "data" on it in the normal sense of the word.
... meaning that there is more than just storage on there (the older type was sometimes just a set of close tolerance resistors that were read by the parallell interface through an A/D convertor) - some modern ones have microcontrollers built in to do processing tasks (generating hash keys?).
tl/dr? - there's more to a Dongle than there is to a USB memory stick.
And what exactly do you think "data" is? It's all, to call up an old adage, ones and zeroes in the end. Whether your ones and zeroes form the extremely complex arrangements necessary to play Doom2 in nightmare mode, or are just a series of mechanical on/off switch gates, they're still data.
You're right that USB dongles don't necessarily involve any solid-state memory (in the same way as USB storage sticks), but it's still just a way of conveying the necessary ones and zeroes to the computer which allow a program to be authorised (or whatever else you might design a dongle to do). It really doesn't matter if your device is solid state memory, mechanical switches, close tolerance resistors, optical disks or a series of well trained bees, as long as it's just a way of conveying a piece of data to your computer. Of course it may be easier to encrypt bees than it is a series of mechanical switches, but thats just the specifics.
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Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
You can even get a midget with a camera to sit on the floorboard.
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Aloriana Jacques
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.07.13 12:12:00 -
[42]
This is why I love the Stardock company to pieces. They are the current pioneers against piracy-proofing games. A few developers have fallen behind them, but more need to do it.
Though I think the first step for a lot of devs will be to get away from EA, which some are actually doing.
- - -
Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
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DarthGeddes
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Posted - 2008.07.13 12:26:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Aloriana Jacques
This is why I love the Stardock company to pieces. They are the current pioneers against piracy-proofing games. A few developers have fallen behind them, but more need to do it.
Though I think the first step for a lot of devs will be to get away from EA, which some are actually doing.
Stardock FTW! I can actually play my legally purchased game on my legally purchased OS on my legally purchased computer with my legal brother! 
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nahtoh
Caldari
StrikerCorp
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Posted - 2008.07.13 21:49:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Zaphroid Eulthran
Originally by: Meiyang Lee
Originally by: Zaphroid Eulthran
All this fuss is about having to put a DVD in your PC to play the game?
Call me stupid (and someone will) but isnt that how games work? I always put CDs in to play the games I want.
In this case you don't even need that. ME doesn't require the DVD in the drive at all after installation. Its just that you're limited to 3 installs. (on 3 different system granted, but still only 3!)
It limits the number of installations you can run off the disk you purchase? Ok that is wrong I see the reason for the fuss.
You all now have my official permission to continue ranting.
Meh its not just that, the game will refuse to run with certain software (totaly legal software as well) with that crappy DRM shit on your system as well.
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"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
nahtoh
Caldari
StrikerCorp
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Posted - 2008.07.13 21:54:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Reiisha
You know...
You can simply buy the game AND download the crack.
It also rewards them for being *******s...honestly the more they pull this shit the fewer games I buy...Yea I may be depriving myself of x amount of hours gameplay abd enjoyment but TBH far to many games that should not have went gold where it takes x amount of patches to fix bugs (or issues never fixed) and they expect you to PAY FULL PRICE for games where they on purpose limit the amount times you can install it?
**** them, the horse they rode in on, family members back a couple of genertions and **** ther desendents.
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"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Dmian
Gallente
Starline Engineering Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.13 22:34:00 -
[46]
The biggest problem most MMORPGs face is: how do we know users are not manipulating the client?
CCP for example do a checksum on the Eve client.
Other, like Trackmania use more restrictive software (Starforce) to verify the client is not being manipulated.
Most developers need to guarantee a certain level of fairness and try to make sure that you're not using some kind of external help to gain advantage of the game.
I prefer the approach CCP uses more than any DRM other companies use, because is cleaner, simpler and not invasive. The other methods will only give you problems in the long term. The problem is that more and more companies think DRM is the way to go to protect their digital assets. To the point that Windows Vista is full of DRM mechanisms to protect multimedia content, specially movies (one of the reasons I'm not going to follow the BluRay movement.)
And when you realize that the copyright laws were created to protect the author and now are used to protect the distributors... well, that makes you think.
In the case of CCP, I'm proud of them, publishing it themselves. I'm sure that the money I spend goes directly to the company and not some lame distributor.
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Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here |
DarthGeddes
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Posted - 2008.07.14 01:24:00 -
[47]
Securom = No.
Linkage
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Robert Lewis
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Posted - 2008.07.14 04:20:00 -
[48]
I never did play X3 because of StarForce. So I know of at least one sale lost due to the copy protection. (me)
Shame Spore has to go this way too, I was looking forward to it, though I got Mass Effect for the 360 so I at least got to play it. |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.07.14 04:27:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Robert Lewis
I never did play X3 because of StarForce. So I know of at least one sale lost due to the copy protection. (me)
I didn't buy that til it came out on Steam
...
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Zeon Mackie
Caldari
Global Dominion Enterprise
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Posted - 2008.07.14 04:39:00 -
[50]
Copy protection doesnt bother me much, so long as it doesnt hinder my playing experience.
The only issue with spore I'll have is the vast number of planets with phallic shaped creatures...
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Haskear
Minmatar
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.07.14 08:20:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Remata Lakira
Edited by: Remata Lakira on 12/07/2008 22:56:04
I don't even care about it anymore.
They made it too cartoony.
They took too long developing it.
They put anti-paying customer software on it.
They sabotaged their own product before it had even hit the shelves.
Agreed in full, screw it and EA.
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Bhaal
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.07.14 14:38:00 -
[52]
Quote:
If you are forced to reinstall the OS or make to many hardware changes it will deduct another install and so on until all 3 have been used. At that point the game becomes unusable.
Simply sounds like something I will ever pay for...
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Current Hobby other than EVE |
Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.14 15:51:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Dantes Revenge on 14/07/2008 15:53:55
Originally by: Elysarian
This thread is flawed on one vital point:
I had the exact same problem as the OP on the EA board -
1. When you download the Creature Creator for the first time you don't have to type in an activation key.
2. If you have to reinstall (for whatever reason) then it asks for a "CD Key", this is emailed to you when you register & (in some cases) end up in the "junk" email folder of your email client, this is also where it says "If you do not have a valid CD key, you will need to repurchase this software" or similar.
This is NOT a SecuROM issue - it's a user error.
Try reading the rest of the forum like I did. I thought the same thing and went searching for more info about it. A lot of people on the Spore forums are saying about the 3 install limit. Link From previous post in the same thread. There are many more like this and notice that EA created a thread titled "Spore Copy Protection Q & A" but apart from the first and only post, have yet to answer one question in a thread that has now reached 8 pages.
If you have ever played Mass Effect, you will already know about the 3 installs limit placed on it by Securom and not by any CD key. Spore is to be shipped with the same protection method as Mass Effect.
If you feel that there is nothing bad about this protection method or that it is a "user error", go ahead and buy the game. I started this thread as a warning both to those who already know about the Securom 3 install limit from Mass Effect and to others who showed interest in Spore some time ago in this forum. If you buy it and get burned, don't say you weren't warned.
I still have my ORIGINAL copies of Elite Frontier and First Encounters and still play them from time to time on an old DOS PC. Frontier Developments has ceased all support for these games but I can still play them. If Spore has a 3 install limit, what happens when the limit is reached after all support has ended? Simple, put the DVD disk on the table, it has become the latest addition to your coaster collection.
Edit: typo.
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There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. |
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