Originally by: HC MasiEEE

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Originally by: Mynas Atoch

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Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr

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The part that doesn't make sense is the part where we're all devs...

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I never said you were all devs. However, you do contain a significant group of players who are expert with the game mechanics, and a good proportion of the volunteer bugfinders. As a group, your collective knowledge of the game mechanics is significantly stronger than any other 2900 member alliance. Yet still you CHOOSE to set up scenarios you know are most likely to crash nodes and force the game into states where it is at its most unplayable.

Why?

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its not fun to spoil the surprise is it

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Originally by: cptblood

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Originally by: HC MasiEEE

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Originally by: Mynas Atoch

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Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr

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The part that doesn't make sense is the part where we're all devs...

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I never said you were all devs. However, you do contain a significant group of players who are expert with the game mechanics, and a good proportion of the volunteer bugfinders. As a group, your collective knowledge of the game mechanics is significantly stronger than any other 2900 member alliance. Yet still you CHOOSE to set up scenarios you know are most likely to crash nodes and force the game into states where it is at its most unplayable.

Why?

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its not fun to spoil the surprise is it

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I see it more that BoB are using the same tactics everyone else used against them and failed with.Hopefully they will now give a lesson in how it should be done and break the northern napfest.

Mynas you seem alittle bitter towards BoB, me thinks there might be a reason behind all this lol

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Originally by: Shamen

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Well most people are forgetting the fact BoB are jumping in to systems with camps setup already. They are jumping into jammed systems with enemy caps already in the system... and are pretty much equal on loss/kill which is very impressive...

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Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger

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Originally by: HC MasiEEE

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Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger

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I am quite puzzled by the meager results of that campaign so far though.

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How can you be puzzeled by the results if the goals of MAX are unknown to you

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I knew the goals of MAX after I read the NY Times article. I stand by my statement.

FYI: "At the barbecue Mr. Molen unveiled a new strategy called Max, for Maximum Damage. While most Eve campaigns center on taking and controlling regions of space, BOBÆs new Maximum Damage doctrine focuses on simply pillaging and destroying the territories of others.

ôOur goal is to control all of Eve,ö Mr. Molen said in an interview over an Internet voice chat program. ôItÆs totally impossible to claim all of Eve physically. But itÆs possible to control the people. ItÆs possible to control the alliances, be it by economic means or fighting means or political means. That was the goal and that is the goal.ö"

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Originally by: Jinshu

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I'm not sure if posting here really is worth any time investment at all, but i shall try to put some real thought into this thread:

Let me quote the goals mentioned earlier in the thread:
"FYI: "At the barbecue Mr. Molen unveiled a new strategy called Max, for Maximum Damage. While most Eve campaigns center on taking and controlling regions of space, BOBÆs new Maximum Damage doctrine focuses on simply pillaging and destroying the territories of others.

ôOur goal is to control all of Eve,ö Mr. Molen said in an interview over an Internet voice chat program. ôItÆs totally impossible to claim all of Eve physically. But itÆs possible to control the people. ItÆs possible to control the alliances, be it by economic means or fighting means or political means. That was the goal and that is the goal.ö"

So what would it take to succeed for BoB ?
We know that BoB has some massive economic power in eve with that beeing said, they are able to replace resources much easier than a lot of the weaker alliances holding space in eve. Thus even in a long standstill type war - with equal losses they would eventually take the lead and win. However with the current system favouring the defenders due to cynojammed systems it requires much more than a little bit of financial advantage.
But if BoBs homesystems are ineed safe - bringing war to the opponents disturbs logistics and economy there, so if played right against a weaker opponent even this defender advantage won't be enough.
Once succeeded it takes quite a minimal efford to keep all the defeated alliances weak due to a regulary visit from a massive superior fleet. Thus taking control of the eve universe to some extend.

However this equation has a fair bit of variables:
- if enough alliances band together against BoB the advantage in members and power diminishes
Since it is actually BoB even people that do not get along that well normaly will eventually unite to face that invader.
And if it is only to put them into place after making so bold anouncements.

- Even with superior finances and economy and logistics - loosing figths in an epic unfavourable proportion like in JU yesterday
more often will hurt even BoB over time - so they should watch out for that.

- It is true, that BoBs Cap Fleet is unrivaled - however in nowadays times of cynojammers "their numbers will count for nothing" to quote 300" - on the other side why should anyone want to attack that cap fleet anyway - so it will often really be only a big logistic support fleet.

- If it goes on long enough some crazy people might actually band together to attack BoBs homespace again - no matter how easy logistics might have become - it takes time and effort - how often do you think will your highly motivated players want to jump/ travel and organize for hours and hours if it reaches a threshold - it will become anoying and demotivating.


Of course MAXimum Waiting has only begun now - so it is true that only time will tell. However we allready see the effects.
The whole NC stands more or less on the frontline in deklein right from the start - i see razor, mm, mh, iron, pure and more in the fleets and waiting - so no easy take out of the alliances one by one. And so far as stated all on the forums - there have been some decisive fleetbattles in favour of the NC and as people said allready - a lot of pilots are looking forward for some action up here.

The question is - how long will the rest of the Eve Universe and the 0.0 alliances watch the events without taking actions for either side or trying to make profit out of this war and BoB being far frome home. Or to quote the Movie "Wanted":

What the **** have you been doing lately ?

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Originally by: TheAdj

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If they want to control us by throwing 300+ bs and who knows how many t2 wrecks at us per week while they flail terribly against us, BoB can control my game all they want.

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Originally by: Cippalippus Primus

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It's like in funny games (the movie) when there's that nice family happy at home and then 2 exquisite well-mannered dudes get in their house and kill them after a lot of suffering, the nice guys are the goons and pets are the once-happy family.

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Originally by: HC MasiEEE

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Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger

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I am quite puzzled by the meager results of that campaign so far though.

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How can you be puzzeled by the results if the goals of MAX are unknown to you

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Originally by: Diomidis

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The one thing MAX + It's CAOD propaganda accomplished is mislead ppl reading the BoB Killboards on MAX's loses: BoBs are rarely seen in fleet fights. They prefer to stay hidden in their (indeed) impressive, yet not intelligently flown caps and brag in CAOD, while almost a dozen of other allied/pet/whatever Alliances get butchered...

1-2% BoB per BS fleet assure that all enemy KM get into BoB Killboards for them to brag about, while the losses are spread in other boards...

Now BoB are complaining about lag, cyno-jammers etc, flaming the NC Alliances for their "cowardice" tactics, forgetting their epic failing in Querious etc a few months ago. Surely NC advance came to an end, but at least they were advancing - with a way less impressive cap fleet and way less fuss in CAOD etc.

BoB + their allies are summed to an impressive force, tho IMHO this fact has nothing to do with PvP.

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Originally by: Fred0

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Jesus christ dude. You must be one of the most stupid RZR guys out there. Why don't you stop spewing shit like this. Anyone with half a brain can see that BOB participation is from 30-50% most of the time, and secondly we've only seen the beginning of this campaign so you'd do well to chill on the conclusions for a few more weeks.

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Originally by: Antodias

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and lots and lots and lots and lots of caod poasts

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Originally by: Dashboard

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Edited by: Dashboard on 14/07/2008 09:38:52

Originally by: Fred0

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Jesus christ dude. You must be one of the most stupid RZR guys out there. Why don't you stop spewing shit like this. Anyone with half a brain can see that BOB participation is from 30-50% most of the time, and secondly we've only seen the beginning of this campaign so you'd do well to chill on the conclusions for a few more weeks.

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RZR killboard comes to CAOD \o/

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Originally by: BoB sucks

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Originally by: HC MasiEEE

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Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger

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I am quite puzzled by the meager results of that campaign so far though.

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How can you be puzzeled by the results if the goals of MAX are unknown to you

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Well, if the goals of Max is the utter embaresment of BoB, then you are doing fine. Iron has never succesfuly defended her space against an invasion. EVER. They have always withdrawn and come back for it later.

If BoB can't even succesfuly shoot up Iron space, what is going to happen if they try and pick on somebody who is halfway competant?

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Originally by: General StarScream

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Death to bob(the alliance) and anyone whom support them

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Originally by: Fred0

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Originally by: Dashboard

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Edited by: Dashboard on 14/07/2008 09:38:52

Originally by: Fred0

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Jesus christ dude. You must be one of the most stupid RZR guys out there. Why don't you stop spewing shit like this. Anyone with half a brain can see that BOB participation is from 30-50% most of the time, and secondly we've only seen the beginning of this campaign so you'd do well to chill on the conclusions for a few more weeks.

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RZR killboard comes to CAOD \o/

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Yeah, keeping up an appearance when people **** up is not our style. I prefer to be part of a ship where everybody knows what's expected of them and they get called on ****ing up. Each to their own I guess.

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Originally by: CCP Oveur

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...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed

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Originally by: Haradgrim

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1) Did anyone truly expect even mighty BOB to take down a Locally-Titan-Defended Cyno jammer on the first try?

2) There will be a nerf to Cyno-jammers, MAX will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. The tinfoiling of heads on this forum will be loltastic.

3) Can anyone field a fleet as large, well equiped, or experienced as BoB? and if they can; would it make a difference? (read: would they be able to take out cyno-jammers belonging to an alliance IRON sized or better...)

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Originally by: NerftheSmurf

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Originally by: Haradgrim

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1) Did anyone truly expect even mighty BOB to take down a Locally-Titan-Defended Cyno jammer on the first try?

2) There will be a nerf to Cyno-jammers, MAX will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. The tinfoiling of heads on this forum will be loltastic.

3) Can anyone field a fleet as large, well equiped, or experienced as BoB? and if they can; would it make a difference? (read: would they be able to take out cyno-jammers belonging to an alliance IRON sized or better...)

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1) yes, they did it in qy6 months ago
2) ok
3) yes but why bother, the more you bring the less chance you have of a fight.

the shocking thing is that bob launched this campaign despite the removal of tower killmails.

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Originally by: CCP Oveur

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...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed

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Originally by: Monsieur Escargots

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I think what a lot of people around here arn't seeing is the way Titans and Cynojammers have changed the game.

It is fairly obvious to anyone who knows how to move with the times that the best way for caps, and especially supercaps to be used, is defensivly. (barring Dreads ofc, but they are just bigger battleships)

You can't do anything with your caps offensivly if a system is cynojammed, and in a way, this is good. If you want to take a system, first you need to actually, you know, win a fight. Not just blob it to death.

Some might not like this, but it is the way the game has evolved, and possibly, is the way the game was intended to be, after CCP saw how devestating multiple Titans could be. I don't think CCP ever intended super caps to be used in fleets of super caps. they are the ultimate support and logistic tool, and in the case of Titans, the thing which finally breaks the camels back.

So, to sum up, stop all this ****y whining about cyno jammers, evolve with the game, play it how it is, and stop moaning your asses off to the devs to get things changed.

Adapt or die.

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