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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.17 16:01:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Guillight BLue
Anyone that comes forward with THE solution TODAY to make 500 versus 500 battles possible WITHOUT lagging the average PC at home, with EVE's current graphical quality? Wins the lotery, can cash millions of dollars in the game industry and relax on a tropical island the rest of his life.
Some lag is OK (1-2 seconds), but people not seeing anything for 10+ minutes while others on the same grid are fighting is BROKEN and defending it is STUPID, kk?
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.17 16:02:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Bleeshtar
Originally by: Alpha Prime
Edited by: Alpha Prime on 13/07/2008 13:11:04
Ever since we've heard & seen this, i have spoken to alot of
players concerning this waste of manhours gone into this
huge waste of effort.
Strangely enough ever since I started playing (at launch) there was an outcry by a large portion of the player base...
"Let us get out of our ships!"
Way I see it CCP is trying to cater to that large portion.
Carry on.
Next thing those people will ask is to get out of their clothes and do naughty things to each other, I tell you ...
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.17 16:24:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Surreptitious
Originally by: Malcanis
Edited by: Malcanis on 17/07/2008 13:24:02
Originally by: Aaron
i havent read all of the posts in the topic so im just gonna throw this in there,
Pity or you'd see that your post was neither original nor correct.
In short: wanting something won't make it happen. It's not a question of financial or programming resources, it's a question of technological limitations. The computing power required for large battles goes up roughly proportional to X! (that's factorial of X; X! = 1 x 2 x 3 x 4 ... x X).
CCP have improved a lot the number of ships which can participate in fleet actions, but as soon they increase the capability to n ships, players will bring n+m ships (m being enough to make everything grind to a blackscreen-infested slideshow). Until n ~ total number of players in the game, lag will be at least a potential problem. In other words, there will always be lag.
Since lag is as much a social problem as a technological one, one way to mitigate it is to give players lots of other things to do than attend huge fleet battles....
Saying its technologically impossible is just ignorant.
Yes, you heard it here. It is literally impossible to get 100 objects on a screen interacting with 100 other objects on the screen. 
Drink more of the CCP cool-aid you lame-o fanboy.
Syrup
Hehe ... some objects interacting with each other ... in your browser (try key 5 and then the left mouse button for a bit).
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.17 16:28:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Guillight BLue
But what YOU ALL PEOPLE fail misserably at and DO NOT realise is that there isn't any PC yet you can install at home that can draw a 1000 ships, with all its Trinity glory, lightning effects and particle effects WITHOUT lagging the hell out of your computer!
Noone is asking for EVE to do that. All current 3D games use simplified models for objects that are further away and in fleet battles in EVE all you will usually see is tiny dots with icons on top.
Really, the client-side graphics aren't the problem and if you had any kind of serious IT education, you wouldn't write something clueless like you just did.
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.17 17:19:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Guillight BLue
In EVE we are talking about 500 versus 500 ships in close up battle, with all the particals and effects spraying around!
I don't know what you are talking about, but RIGHT NOW in EVE you will not see 500 v 500 ships close up with "all the particals" (LOL). And there's no demand to do this and this isn't what causes the server lag currently.
Quote:
And distance blurring and various graphic scaling isn't gonna help in that as its already being done in EVE Online. So you fail on that too!
Make up your mind, either you need to see them with full details or you don't. Fact is, you don't and what the servers need to process has nothing to do with graphics. All the effects are client-side "particals".
Quote:
EDIT: And no I am not trolling, as I ACTUALLY DO work in the IT as Systems Engineer and ACTUALLY have a clue what todays AVAILABLE server technology is capable of and more important, what our PC clients at home CAN and CANNOT handle.
Well you are ACTUALLY clueless and clients are not the issue.
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.17 17:22:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tarminic
Much computing ignorance in this thread.
To summarize:
-There is no civilian server that can handle the massive battles in EVE without significant amounts of lag
Where do you "summarize" this nonsense from? CCP's server code is just clunky old single-threaded Python code, that's the whole problem at hand. Nowdays you can get "civilian" servers with 16 cores everywhere and CCP's crummy code can't benefit from it.
Don't make stupid broad statements like "there is no ..." when in fact the problem is "CCP's code is currently not able to ...".
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.17 18:29:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tarminic
Did you notice anywhere in that summary that I said that it's not possible?
I said, specifically, "There is no civilian server that can handle the massive battles in EVE without significant amounts of lag." I never said why that's the case, because it was a summary.
Yes, most of the reason is because CCP can't multithread their server code, and won't be able to for some time (according to one of the devs). I wasn't defending CCP or making excuses for them.
My statement still stands. Take EVE's software architecture and put it on any civilian server in the world and it won't fare any better.
But the point is precisely that it's not the availability of "civilian servers" that causes these problems, but the badly written server-side code.
You tried deliberately to make it sound like we're out of luck because you can't get servers that would make EVE work well. But you can get them easily if CCP invests enough effort into fixing the code. Noone is asking specifically for better hardware, but for a focused effort to fix the lag problems and that means mainly to fix the software.
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.17 18:33:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Guillight BLue
And I did NOT come up with the 500 versus 500 battles, but the OP did and many other ignorant people in this topic, demanding it from CCP, while having no clue that with todays technology (Again from both Server side AS client side!!) it's just NOT possible without LAG!
It's NOT only about graphics, it's all the complex processing that takes place in such battles and your client that constantly needs to be updated with just TOO much data! Not to mention all the info in your UI overview!
Cheers
This clueless nonsense is easily contradicted by simply observing current fleet battles where 20% of the people can fight and the rest see nothing, without those 20% having a better PC or connection than the others.
It's a server-side problem, all clueless comments about the PC not being able to handle data yada yada can be ignored/ridiculed.
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.18 07:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
It will be an entirely new aspect of the game, ripe for developement and expansion.
DEPTH makes for a good game
You get a cookie for getting it.
We won't release Ambulation completely empty of features and things to do, but they may not be be your cup of tea. We will however continue to develop and expand Ambulation once it hits.
Wohoo, we will get NPCs in stations with question marks hovering over their heads who give out FedEx quests. ;-P
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