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Darko Fett	Posted - 2008.07.13 23:14:00 - [1] I'm a new player, started about 3 weeks ago. I'm already into L3 missions, just bought a Drake, and I'm breezing through them all very easily with my highest quality L3 contact. Now here's my question: I've got standings to run the highest quality L4 missions also, and soon I will have enough isk to purchase and reasonably fit a Raven. However, I only have ~1.5 mil SP. Is it too soon to be looking at battleships + L4 missions? What criteria should I use to judge when to move up to the next level of missions? Also, how feasible is it to solo L4s?
The Hanz Caldari Will It Blend	Posted - 2008.07.13 23:20:00 - [2] I don't really fly Ravens but I do have some sense about it. Get a raven when you get all your basic missile skills to 4 and cruise missiles to 4. Get your cap skills to at least 4 and get the ability to use t2 XL shield boosters and amps.....the Raven active tanks. When you get to that point level 4's are no problem and I've been doing them with ease for year. I've done level 4's in a lot of different missions. The expensive gunboat (I mean nightmare) will do them faster but my missile ships do them with ease while I post on these forum on my second monitor.
Lachious Caldari Universal Moose Foundation	Posted - 2008.07.13 23:20:00 - [3] I'll give you the conservative and safe answer. There is a pretty drastic difficulty increase from lvl 3 missions to lvl4. And to go along with that, it generally is a lot of skill training involved to get into and survive reasonably well in a BS. If I was you, I'd hang tight, run those lvl 3's for decent isk and good standing and set a training path to get into said BS.
The Hanz Caldari Will It Blend	Posted - 2008.07.13 23:21:00 - [4] Oh, and you need good drone skills when you get a battleship to help take the frigates at. I don't know how vital it is for a Raven but I recommend being able to use t2 medium drones.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.13 23:24:00 - [5] Soloing level 4s is easy. As a new player, I suggest this setup. 6x Arbalest Cruise Launchers 2x Whatever X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier I 3x Mission Specific Active Hardener IIs Heavy Capacitor Booster (II or electrochemical) (800's) 2x Ballistic Control (pref II) 3x Power Diagnostic System II Drones: 5 Mediums/5 Lights Rigs: 3x Capacitor Control when the isk is ready Okay. You want all of this gear before you start 4's, really. You may be able to skimp by with some stuff named, but this is where I'd start. Get tech 2 drones, ASAP. The cap booster is helpful for new players, but once you get used to the mission and using your shield booster, you can replace it with a cap recharger. Again, once you're comfortable, you can switch a power diagnostic to a ballistic control.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.07.13 23:24:00 - [6] Originally by: Darko Fett I'm a new player, started about 3 weeks ago. I'm already into L3 missions, just bought a Drake, and I'm breezing through them all very easily with my highest quality L3 contact. Now here's my question: I've got standings to run the highest quality L4 missions also, and soon I will have enough isk to purchase and reasonably fit a Raven. However, I only have ~1.5 mil SP. Is it too soon to be looking at battleships + L4 missions? What criteria should I use to judge when to move up to the next level of missions? Also, how feasible is it to solo L4s? Wait, train for t2 cruise, cap skills, cap rigs, and anything else that has to do with the raven. This will also give you time to work out a decent setup and have enough money to take the raven loss in the future if your not ready.
Darko Fett	Posted - 2008.07.13 23:33:00 - [7] Ok, so not for a while; still lots of crap to train. Thanks guys.
achoura	Posted - 2008.07.13 23:43:00 - [8] The unfortunate truth of the Raven is 1.5mil sp is enough to solo a lvl 4, assuming it's dedicated to this ofc, if the pilot know what he's facing (lvl4 channel in game has a link to the db) and applies basic common sense. No, you do not need tii modules either, although named launchers will pass tii hardeners are easy to get or failing that cheap faction ones but that's more than enough and slightly sickeningly it can all be done with a perma tank. It's remarkably easy to set your kb to simply mash f1-f6, leave auto lock back on (or use fof) and just pay enough attention to warp said ship around/activate gates and thanks to eve's low requirements you can check it on a usb stick and make isk on almost any pc when ever. /end rant. If you haven't quite got the skills yet spend a month going for it and feasible becomes certainty, pass 5 mil sp and the hourly gain means the account ends up paying for it's self in very little time (gtcs.) *The EVE servers and their patches*
Tanith YarnDemon	Posted - 2008.07.14 00:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Darko Fett Ok, so not for a while; still lots of crap to train. Thanks guys. I bought mine around day 22 in game. Simply because you can't use them while on trial, and trial was 21 days. There's a few posts on the skills forum for what skills you need to fly one, however the general rule here will be - since you're not experienced flying with them - as soon as you can afford to lose it. Don't ever consider selling your drake to buy your first Raven. Read up on your missions and so on, know what you have and what you face. They're entirely different ships to fly, and fact is Drake can be considered alot more skill intensive than the Raven.
Kirex Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2008.07.14 01:00:00 - [10] remember drones, or else it'll take longer to kill off frigs compared to battleships. ;/
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.07.14 01:04:00 - [11] If you're careful and use a mission info site like eveinfo.com, you can limp into Lv4s with a domi at surprisingly skill points. I think the raven is similar. Realistically though, you're probably better off doing Lv3s until you get at least a little comfort. You certainly don't need to T2 fit a bs to do missions effectuveky but you should probably make sure you at least have all the tools.
KISOGOKU	Posted - 2008.07.14 01:14:00 - [12] patient is most important thing at eve i think and im agree with alot of skills but tech2 cruise.I started doing lvl4s without tech2 cruise launchers and another thing if op decides to train for Golem will be better to have tech2 torpedos darko i hope you have electronic 5 it is most important skill i think, raven is well known for cpu problems (add weapon upgrade/advanced weapon upgrades to list) lectronics lvl 5 tech2 small/med drones shield operation lvl 5 for x-large II shield management 4 shield compensation (the skill gives 2% cap reduce per level) enrgy op 4-later 5 energy management 4-later 5 advanced weapon upgrades 4 missile launcher op 5 ,rapid launch 4- later 5 missile support skills to 3 -later 4 energy grid upgrades 4 tactical shield manipulation lvl4 for tech 2 hardener /invuls http://eve-guides.com/exploration/index.php when you have skills and raven use this site for info ,do your research before accepting missions Originally by: goodby4u Wait, train for t2 cruise, cap skills, cap rigs, and anything else that has to do with the raven.
Kasutra Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.14 01:15:00 - [13] Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon the general rule here will be - since you're not experienced flying with them - as soon as you can afford to lose it. Quoted for emphasis. I would actually say "as soon as you are prepared to lose it", but yes. As soon as losing the ship is not the end of your world. There is a bit of an emotional impact involved, as well as a financial one. Anyways... when you consider yourself ready to watch the ship go boom the moment you undock, the situation might look like this: If you try and succeed - whoo, you now know that you are ready to run L4s! If you try and fail - who cares, you said you could afford it. =¦
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.07.14 01:46:00 - [14] hell, most level 4s are doable in a drake. or move up to this raven fitting. if you can afford the pithi b type get them instead. current prices: B-type 24mil, C-type 7mil [Raven, for the noobs] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Capacitor Flux Coil I Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I and 5 drones of choice
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.07.14 01:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Kasutra Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon the general rule here will be - since you're not experienced flying with them - as soon as you can afford to lose it. Quoted for emphasis. I would actually say "as soon as you are prepared to lose it", but yes. As soon as losing the ship is not the end of your world. There is a bit of an emotional impact involved, as well as a financial one. Anyways... when you consider yourself ready to watch the ship go boom the moment you undock, the situation might look like this: If you try and succeed - whoo, you now know that you are ready to run L4s! If you try and fail - who cares, you said you could afford it. =¦ meh, if you fail you have your drake and can get the isk again somehow.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.14 02:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Kasutra Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon the general rule here will be - since you're not experienced flying with them - as soon as you can afford to lose it. Quoted for emphasis. I would actually say "as soon as you are prepared to lose it", but yes. As soon as losing the ship is not the end of your world. There is a bit of an emotional impact involved, as well as a financial one. Anyways... when you consider yourself ready to watch the ship go boom the moment you undock, the situation might look like this: If you try and succeed - whoo, you now know that you are ready to run L4s! If you try and fail - who cares, you said you could afford it. =¦ meh, if you fail you have your drake and can get the isk again somehow. I'd say that one could probably have the "minimum" skillset to fly a Raven in a level 4 at 3 million or so SP, assuming they were wisely invested SP. Level 4's are fairly brutal when you first start out (I lost my very first battleship less than 10 minutes after I bought and fitted it), but the biggest factor one has to overcome is understanding how to run them. Caldari players are generally used to being able to missile spam things with no consideration for aggro management because they either have so much range or so much tank that by the time they are ready to jump into level 4's they think the mold will be the same. I'd say if you can use cruise missiles and launch 5 drones and can fit shield hardners and boosters that's all you really need, especially when you throw in the cushion CCC rigs give to players these days. I myself run missions in an unrigged pure T2 Raven with no complications. In order to prevent early stupid mistakes, have friends tag along for your first sets of missions. Read eve-survial.org for tips on missions. If you do all of these things you'll find Level 4's can be handily run with the Noob friendly Raven with surprisingly low SP.
Tanith YarnDemon	Posted - 2008.07.14 02:32:00 - [17] Originally by: Derek Sigres I'd say that one could probably have the "minimum" skillset to fly a Raven in a level 4 at 3 million or so SP, assuming they were wisely invested SP. Level 4's are fairly brutal when you first start out (I lost my very first battleship less than 10 minutes after I bought and fitted it), but the biggest factor one has to overcome is understanding how to run them. Caldari players are generally used to being able to missile spam things with no consideration for aggro management because they either have so much range or so much tank that by the time they are ready to jump into level 4's they think the mold will be the same. I'd say if you can use cruise missiles and launch 5 drones and can fit shield hardners and boosters that's all you really need, especially when you throw in the cushion CCC rigs give to players these days. I myself run missions in an unrigged pure T2 Raven with no complications. In order to prevent early stupid mistakes, have friends tag along for your first sets of missions. Read eve-survial.org for tips on missions. If you do all of these things you'll find Level 4's can be handily run with the Noob friendly Raven with surprisingly low SP. Sadly I didn't record what amount of skillpoints I had when I first began running the level 4's, but it was about 3 weeks into game. Probably around 1.5m SP.. However you're quite right about having to figure out how to run them. Ravens are one of those ships where you SP are neglectable compared to knowing how to fly it - or rather missions are no matter the ship. The only thing I disagree with in your post are the CCC's. Even trying to keep a good cap recharge early on is a waste, you'd be much better off with an injector and resistance rigs. Not least because of the cost.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.14 02:38:00 - [18] Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon Originally by: Derek Sigres I'd say that one could probably have the "minimum" skillset to fly a Raven in a level 4 at 3 million or so SP, assuming they were wisely invested SP. Level 4's are fairly brutal when you first start out (I lost my very first battleship less than 10 minutes after I bought and fitted it), but the biggest factor one has to overcome is understanding how to run them. Caldari players are generally used to being able to missile spam things with no consideration for aggro management because they either have so much range or so much tank that by the time they are ready to jump into level 4's they think the mold will be the same. I'd say if you can use cruise missiles and launch 5 drones and can fit shield hardners and boosters that's all you really need, especially when you throw in the cushion CCC rigs give to players these days. I myself run missions in an unrigged pure T2 Raven with no complications. In order to prevent early stupid mistakes, have friends tag along for your first sets of missions. Read eve-survial.org for tips on missions. If you do all of these things you'll find Level 4's can be handily run with the Noob friendly Raven with surprisingly low SP. Sadly I didn't record what amount of skillpoints I had when I first began running the level 4's, but it was about 3 weeks into game. Probably around 1.5m SP.. However you're quite right about having to figure out how to run them. Ravens are one of those ships where you SP are neglectable compared to knowing how to fly it - or rather missions are no matter the ship. The only thing I disagree with in your post are the CCC's. Even trying to keep a good cap recharge early on is a waste, you'd be much better off with an injector and resistance rigs. Not least because of the cost. I agree with the cost issue (the reason I don't have them on MY raven - they're expensive and unnecessary), however they DO provide quite a bit of cushion to new players. Going from a drake where the Tank is always on to a Raven where the only thing you can run permenantly is the hardners is a scary proposition, especially when you consider a player with Noob skills can run their cap dry with an XL Booster in around a minute. Rigs improve your sustained tank and let you make more mistakes without exploding, and if they perform that function then their price is irrelevent.
Horizon Taker Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.07.14 02:50:00 - [19] I'll give you the same answer I give everyone else. Get good at medium sized ships before you even dare think about large size ships. Hell, imho get into tech 2 ships before you even train up for a BS. I am Minmatar and spent a ton of time training up Large Autocannon Specialization, and it was a terrible mistake. There isn't a day that goes by that wishes I had access to a hac/recon instead of a BS. My skill points are drawn quite a bit out, and quite frankly my character suffers a bit in a lot of areas that I'm going back now and training for.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.07.14 03:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Horizon Taker I'll give you the same answer I give everyone else. Get good at medium sized ships before you even dare think about large size ships. Hell, imho get into tech 2 ships before you even train up for a BS. I am Minmatar and spent a ton of time training up Large Autocannon Specialization, and it was a terrible mistake. There isn't a day that goes by that wishes I had access to a hac/recon instead of a BS. My skill points are drawn quite a bit out, and quite frankly my character suffers a bit in a lot of areas that I'm going back now and training for. This is a big pitfall of Eve - doing things "right" takes painful amounts of time. MMO's generally keep players interested with constant, clear rewards. Eve's awards are paid out in tiny increments of 2 - 5% over long periods of time. When I first started playing, doing things the right way seemed like they'd take forever, so I did it the wrong way (and exploded a lot). Now, at 21 million SP I finally feel that I'm approaching proficiency in medium and large ships. If I follow my current training regimine I should be ready for a cap ship by 35 million SP but that may prove to be far to time consuming.
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.07.14 03:06:00 - [21] I have too agree. A Caldari character can run level 4's within 2-4 weeks of creation in a Raven, but actually knowing what Level 4's are and knowing the missions is a important part, aswell as being used to the game mechanics. Use the Drake and get the feel of it, once you have the Raven i suggest you train in level 3's with it until you know how to use it, then you go ahead for level 4's. ------------ Somebody set up us the bomb
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.14 05:29:00 - [22] Originally by: KISOGOKU patient is most important thing at eve i think and im agree with alot of skills but tech2 cruise.I started doing lvl4s without tech2 cruise launchers and another thing if op decides to train for Golem will be better to have tech2 torpedos darko i hope you have electronic 5 it is most important skill i think, raven is well known for cpu problems (add weapon upgrade/advanced weapon upgrades to list) lectronics lvl 5 tech2 small/med drones shield operation lvl 5 for x-large II shield management 4 shield compensation (the skill gives 2% cap reduce per level) enrgy op 4-later 5 energy management 4-later 5 advanced weapon upgrades 4 missile launcher op 5 ,rapid launch 4- later 5 missile support skills to 3 -later 4 energy grid upgrades 4 tactical shield manipulation lvl4 for tech 2 hardener /invuls http://eve-guides.com/exploration/index.php when you have skills and raven use this site for info ,do your research before accepting missions Originally by: goodby4u Wait, train for t2 cruise, cap skills, cap rigs, and anything else that has to do with the raven. Waaaaaay too conservative. You don't need t2 drones. You can really make do without t2 XL booster as well, and it won't fit once you get t2 cruise anwyays. You don't really need elec/engi 5 to be honest to begin running level 4's. Advanced weapon upgrades? What the hell kind of raven are you flying that has power grid problems? I'd aim for the following. When you can fit these modules (only requires some skills to level 4), get BS to at least 3, get cap skills to 4, support skills (tank + missile) to 3-4, and you'll be fine. Just use eve-survival to learn the missions, and if you're nervous about it, drop a hardener and fit a cap booster until you learn the missions (can throw a 4th BCS on when you do this). There's plenty of room for improvement skill-wise, but this setup can run pretty much every mission (if you do the navy missions like EA5, you might want to bring a friend). [Raven, New Setup 1 copy 1] Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Shield Boost Amplifier I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead I
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.14 05:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Elhina Novae I have too agree. A Caldari character can run level 4's within 2-4 weeks of creation in a Raven, but actually knowing what Level 4's are and knowing the missions is a important part, aswell as being used to the game mechanics. Use the Drake and get the feel of it, once you have the Raven i suggest you train in level 3's with it until you know how to use it, then you go ahead for level 4's. TBH I don't see the need to use a Drake for feeling out missions. Level 4's are quite easy if you just go by eve-survival, as it lays it all out there for you. If you're nervous in a raven, it's very easy to slap on a cap booster until you're comfortable with the ship/missions. If you have the right hardeners on and can run your cap booster until you run out of charges, you'd have to really try hard to blow up your Raven. I'm sure it can be done if you act the fool on missions with triggers, lol, but again, if you go by eve survival, you'll be fine. Most people I've recommended this to found that after their first mission, or at most a few, they found they weren't using the cap booster at all and removed it for another hardener. It just makes a nice training wheels setup for first time mission runners.
Trading Flubby	Posted - 2008.07.14 06:03:00 - [24] get a good mission site the lvl4 chan in eve has the in my opinion best one its topic and o for it. I did start lvl 4s after like 3 weeks flying minni so hi maelstroem with so bad skills .. its easily doable. Especially in the ship you aim for ... if you take care of what is expecting you and maybe skip those missions with massive aggro on warpin + scrambling/webbing like e.g. worlds collide then its peace of cake and gives a lot more cash then doing lvl 3s. Never forget to fit the right hardeners thats probabl one of the most mportant things with low sp ... Though poeple are right that you will have have a loooong break with new things coming after the switch to the bs and you will most probably get a lot of skills which you might not use the moment you fly ( like the small and medium specialisation skills on turrets ...). And again never forget to be cautius while entering the lvl 4 farm dont overpull be aware of that drones might pull entire stages and try to get rid of the scramble frigs asap as long as they arent the trigers :). AH in insuring would probably be a very good idea :)
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.14 06:05:00 - [25] Just to note Flubby, WC is actually a pretty easy mission in a noob raven setup. There isn't any massive aggro in that mission, unless you purposefully pull everything. You just have to remember not to assign your drones on the spy's, haha, although you can kill them with your missiles (slowly) without pulling any additional aggro.
Marion Rendois	Posted - 2008.07.14 06:57:00 - [26] Edited by: Marion Rendois on 14/07/2008 06:57:14 I was running level 4s with a cheapest fit T1 Drake, with an alt providing drone support and remote shield transfer. You do need to be careful, but you have the advantage of being able to focus the main character training on T2 tank skills, while the support character can focus on T2 drones. I would recommend sticking to your Drake for the meantime - it is ridiculously tough for tanking PvE missions. Train up your shield tanking skills - check out the Ship forum for standard T2 passive tank Drake fitouts. Find friends or train up an alt to provide DPS and salvaging for your missions. This character is flying a Vexor to provide T2 drone fire support, salvage and sometimes remote shield transfer. Have fun, and fly safe! PS: as for Worlds Collide - just avoid using drones at all for that mission.
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.07.14 06:57:00 - [27] Originally by: AstroPhobic Soloing level 4s is easy. As a new player, I suggest this setup. 6x Arbalest Cruise Launchers 2x Whatever X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier I 3x Mission Specific Active Hardener IIs Heavy Capacitor Booster (II or electrochemical) (800's) 2x Ballistic Control (pref II) 3x Power Diagnostic System II Drones: 5 Mediums/5 Lights Rigs: 3x Capacitor Control when the isk is ready Okay. You want all of this gear before you start 4's, really. You may be able to skimp by with some stuff named, but this is where I'd start. Get tech 2 drones, ASAP. The cap booster is helpful for new players, but once you get used to the mission and using your shield booster, you can replace it with a cap recharger. Again, once you're comfortable, you can switch a power diagnostic to a ballistic control. This is very good advice in my opinion. Altho I personally would propably suggest for new player who is somewhat low on sp to use some shield rigs instead of CCC ones with cap injector fueled setup and to use 3x BCU's instead of 2. Abovementioned setup can do most (not all) level 4 missions in reasonable timeframe even with pure T1 fit. Shield rigs I would suggest would be propably one thermal resitance one (as thats the most common damage type in eve) and 2 of those that make your shield booster take less capacitor (as you will be running off injector in most missions anyway with low skills).
Boz Well	Posted - 2008.07.14 07:21:00 - [28] Shield rigs are cheap, but most people won't need to keep the cap booster once they get the hang of level 4 missions (which for competent pilots doesn't take very long at all). Fitting CCC's early on lets you remove the booster without having to completely reconfigure the riggings of your ship and makes it easier to ween yourself off the cap booster. I'd always go with 3xBCS but I suppose it's personal preference, haha.
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.07.14 11:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Marion Rendois Edited by: Marion Rendois on 14/07/2008 06:57:14 .............. PS: as for Worlds Collide - just avoid using drones at all for that mission. The only drones that make this level 4 really easy are Wardens or other sentry drones. I said in an earlier thread that I completed the whole level 4 with mostly wardens and drew no agro to my Dominix & this included killing the spies.
Lrrp Minmatar Drahathinar Tribe	Posted - 2008.07.14 11:56:00 - [30] Don't buy a BS until you have saved twice the isk that the BS will cost to buy and fit. The Drake will do most lvl 4 missions so make sure your ancillary skills are all skilled up to the point the Drake can do lvl 4's. At that point and when you have the 2x isk, buy your first BS. I waited 6 months before I bought my first BS.

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