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Jacynth VeRouche
Urban Mining Corp
Rising Phoenix Alliance
0
   |
Posted - 2012.03.16 15:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
I just ground out Core Complexion standings like crazy hoping to get a jump clone. It turns out I didn't do my homework though and none of their stations have cloning services. I am determined to make lemons into lemonade though so I'm thinking about delving into R&D agents, but I had a quick question.
I really don't want to invest training time into something that might not be around much longer. I thought that I heard somewhere that they were thinking of removing research points from the game, though I have been looking for that article again and I can't find it for the life of me. I then found an article where they talked about how they were closing the get-research-points-while-unsubscribed loophole, and thought that might be it, but I am pretty sure that I saw previously that they were thinking about removing research points from the game period.
So, am I crazy? Did I totally make this up? Are they considering removing research points from the game or not, and if so is there any indication what they'll replace them with so that the science skills are still useful? |
Salcon Cliff
Zephyr Corp
Black Thorne Alliance
43
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Posted - 2012.03.16 15:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
I have never heard that they are removing RPs from the game, but I don't really follow the dev blogs, either. OTOH, I think there would have been a holy ruckus raised if they were removing them, and I am sure that there is currently no alternative method to get datacores and do invention jobs. |
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
195
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Posted - 2012.03.16 15:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
I do vaguely recall seeing something along the lines of "I've never been particularly happy about the RP system" but that was very much as far as it went, ie. a dev's personal opinion that it wasn't an ideal system. I've never seen anything more concrete or indicative of more substantial plans on the horizon or even any further thinking on the subject.
The hard part is grinding the standings, the skills (at least to 4) are likely a much quicker affair, and whilst the rewards are limited there is nothing in Eve that could be described as a more passive isk generator. I'd say go for it and get working on the lemonade distilliery. |
Hockston Axe
99
|
Posted - 2012.03.19 02:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tekota wrote:I do vaguely recall seeing something along the lines of "I've never been particularly happy about the RP system" but that was very much as far as it went, ie. a dev's personal opinion that it wasn't an ideal system. I've never seen anything more concrete or indicative of more substantial plans on the horizon or even any further thinking on the subject. The hard part is grinding the standings, the skills (at least to 4) are likely a much quicker affair, and whilst the rewards are limited there is nothing in Eve that could be described as a more passive isk generator. I'd say go for it and get working on the lemonade distilliery. edit: linky - http://www.evenews24.com/2011/07/31/ccp-soundwave-why-balancing-is-bad-and-monkeys-are-good/ - some might say it's wise to be a tad wary of evenews24 veracity but I could have sworn I saw that interview on the Eve site at some point too. Anyway, key quote would be " Yeah, there are several issues weGÇÖve run into GÇô Research Points is one of them; I want to rip that whole system out and fix it." - now that was written 8 months ago and you can see the progress we've seen in RP generation in the meantime (ie. none, so for now I'd consider it as safe as it's going to be to get that RP generation going).
He might be thinking about that, because when that interview hit someone went all Chicken Little on the forums and put stuff in the Wiki invention page saying they were going to be removed. Though the only thing that was removed was the false info they put in the Wiki. |
Alacta Lithia
Carniffles Corp
54
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Posted - 2012.03.20 19:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cant help in regards to the RP, but if you looking for an easy way to get jump clones, you can use the free services of EACS.
EACS |
Brock Nelson
427
|
Posted - 2012.03.21 01:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wouldn't hurt to start earning RP. It took me less than a day to access level 3 agents and I'm leaving it at that.
Signature removed, CCP Phantom |
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
204
|
Posted - 2012.03.23 14:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hmm, suggestions from the stream that this may actually occur afterall. Still, the same skills used to research are then used in invention, so not like wasted skill points (research project management possibly refunded?)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=85163 |
Mara Villoso
Big Box
64
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Posted - 2012.03.23 15:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
This would make me very unhappy. There's is no logical reason to restrict them to FW. Just because some small percentage of players want FW to be meaningful doesn't mean it should lead to significant control over T2 production. Datacores aren't just a revenue stream, they're the core (pardon the pun) of T2 invention. As an independent producer, I'm already at the mercy of the sov alliance T2 materials market, now I'm going to be at the mercy of the FW datacores market? |
Borun Tal
Border Zone Combat
81
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Posted - 2012.03.23 15:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dev blog or it's not true. Period. |
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
204
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Posted - 2012.03.23 15:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
Borun Tal wrote:Dev blog or it's not true. Period.
Dev post?
|
Kyr Evotorin
Psycho Tech Industries
Interstellar Hobos
3
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Posted - 2012.03.23 16:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
People always fail to fully read anything on the internet...
"We then discussed a [pretend this is bolded]general decrease[/pretend this is bolded] to passive Datacore gains, as we want to add Datacore offers in the FW LP stores."
(Yea, I derp on bad computers that can't read half of the information on current web browsers)
A general decrease. the market won't be controlled by FW, like one person posted. you will still get passive income, as another person complained.
All in all, it will still be a good thing to have on your alts :) and people, PLEASE.... learn to read. 'We' didn't allow you the right to read just so you can abuse it and be stupid. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
766
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 04:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
My main objection would be "why should those be in the FW LP store?". Why shouldn't it be the *existing* NPC research corps who choose to start offering datacores in their LP stores? (Which would make a whole lot more sense.)
(And I have 20 L4 R&D agents across 4 chars, so I do have a horse in this race. I still have no issues with them adding the ability to purchase datacores with LP.) |
Raven Ether
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
113
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 21:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
FFS Why do they have to involve the ******** factional warfare to such a crucial industry in the game's economy and **** off producers on top.
******* hate when they try to make ******** **** like ******* FW better by ******* up the crap out of the **** of other things like datacores and invention. |
Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 22:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Only logical explanation is they want to shoe horn people into doing more FW, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with datacores. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1075
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 03:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kyr Evotorin wrote:A general decrease. the market won't be controlled by FW, like one person posted. you will still get passive income, as another person complained.
The only thing that will prevent data cores from becoming worthless will be the presence of other items in the FW LP store which are slightly more interesting. LP can be collected without practical limit, while RP are accumulated at a capped rate per day. The floor price of data cores will become whatever the direct ISK value of the LP data cores is set to.
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Conyr Eliot
Eve Liberation Force
Fatal Ascension
0
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Posted - 2012.03.25 03:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kneebone wrote:Only logical explanation is they want to shoe horn people into doing more FW, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with datacores.
Bingo, talked about in this interview http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve-online/interviews/inferno-part-one |
Brock Nelson
431
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 04:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Well, this will likely increase profitability of T2 BPO
Signature removed, CCP Phantom |
Isonda
The Candiru
None Of The Above
0
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Posted - 2012.03.25 17:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think this is a nice way to get people into FW.
I do hope the RP cost is doubled, or trippled, from R&D agents. And then maybe some of the major corps will move to LowSec |
FT Diomedes
Factio Paucorum
12
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Posted - 2012.03.25 22:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Isonda wrote:I think this is a nice way to get people into FW.
I do hope the RP cost is doubled, or trippled, from R&D agents. And then maybe some of the major corps will move to LowSec
LOL! |
Vince Snetterton
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
25
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Posted - 2012.03.26 05:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Well, starting at around 7:30 to about 10:00 Soundwave just said that datacore farmers will be wiped out.
When asked whether people should cash out their RP, he said "absolutely".
He said we are ABUSING the datacore mechanic.
I NEED that passive income.
I will likely be quitting the game when Inferno arrives.
|
Iggep
Crestlighter Heavy Industries
1
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Posted - 2012.03.26 08:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Isonda wrote:I think this is a nice way to get people into FW.
I do hope the RP cost is doubled, or trippled, from R&D agents. And then maybe some of the major corps will move to LowSec
The only reason I haven't gotten involved in FW thus far was because of the faction standing hit. Unless that's changed in the last year since I played last? I don't want to be inhibited in high sec travel and standings grinds are a beesh!
http://www.iggepsrealm.com - the ramblings of a spaceship driving techophile |
Raven Ether
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
114
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 11:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:Well, starting at around 7:30 to about 10:00 Soundwave just said that datacore farmers will be wiped out. When asked whether people should cash out their RP, he said "absolutely". He said we are ABUSING the datacore mechanic. I NEED that passive income. I will likely be quitting the game when Inferno arrives.
What the ****? Playing the game is abusing mechanics? |
EmmaFromMarketing
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2012.03.26 11:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Raven Ether wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:Well, starting at around 7:30 to about 10:00 Soundwave just said that datacore farmers will be wiped out. When asked whether people should cash out their RP, he said "absolutely". He said we are ABUSING the datacore mechanic. I NEED that passive income. I will likely be quitting the game when Inferno arrives. What the ****? Playing the game is abusing mechanics?
I think you just made Soundwave's point for him. Which is that he doesn't like passive income, i.e. people getting isk for not playing the game. |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
116
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 11:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
Don't you just love the idea that the t2 bpo holders have got those t2 BPO's through the EXACT SAME SYSTEM, and yet they "are never to be touched".
Personally, I think they should either a) never have removed the lottery, or b) removed the t2 bpo's if the mechanic was indeed a mistake.
Those guys made trillions compared to the few billion the datacores give the rest of us since.
They DO upset the market - especially with the rise in pos fuel from 1) PI and 2) Fuel Block introduction - all of which make costs rise for inventors.
It's like they are completely ignoring the fact that a bunch of people have a huge advantage, and then they pick on small crap like this.
I just don't get it. I DO understand not wanting to create a game where they introduce a particular item and then later take it away from people who might've paid real world money to get that item. I do get that. But the fact is the people who originally got the t2 bpo's got them FOR FREE. All other values put on them are done so by the players.
Some of these people are sitting on hundreds of T2 BPO's.
And their major concern is the 1-200m a month I make in datacores?
srsly... get a grip.
Bring back the lottery instead of datacores if they prefer and stop creating these stupid systems of allowing huge amounts of isk generation for a few people to override the entire economy for the vast majority.
My EVE YouTube Channel |
Marbuel
Wormhole Exploration Crew
R.E.P.O.
15
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Posted - 2012.03.26 12:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
EmmaFromMarketing wrote:
I think you just made Soundwave's point for him. Which is that he doesn't like passive income, i.e. people getting isk for not playing the game.
Yes and no. I see the datacores as a reward for play previously invested, not only in terms of the time spent training the necessary science skills but also the long hauls that can go into generating standings to increase RP generation. It's one way my care-bearing actually reaps rewards, and as much as those that play in hi sec might be maligned by those oh-so-hardcore in this game, there's a fundamental set of industrialists who are going to be put out by a move to decrease passive datacore production.
I came to the forums after hearing on a Chicken Licken grapevine that R&D agents could be removed altogether, rubbing my belly badge and prepared to do some serious Care Bear staring, but have calmed somewhat after reading that it might just equate to an increased RP cost, making factional warfare the faster way to earn cores. This seems far more reasonable than the removal of a system being "abused" (I'd like to see the details of the abuse in a blog, please. Be specific as possible. Show everyone on the doll where the bad men are touching)
Okay, gameplay should reap greater rewards. Sure, more cooperative style play should earn greater rewards....
...but the suggestion that the R&D system currently in effect is to be "torn apart" bugs the bajeezus out of me. Primarily as it requires PvE players to get involved in PvP - and while I can see the plus side of that for the game, I don't like design decisions that come across as an attempt to shoe-horn players into particular activities, most especially when it renders previous investment of game time obsolete.
Not to mention getting data from researchers is more logical and immersive than obtaining them for participation in factional warfare. What do those fighting a war care for the spoils of scientists? Why have those rewarding combatants decided to give out datacores and where and why are they obtaining them?
Soundwave's interview also talks about the possibility that successes in factional warfare mean that prices of datacores will fluctuate on the market, especially for those races not using their factional rewards to get datacores or not generating them as much as a race that has supremacy. While an exciting prospect, it also makes it more vital that R&D is still providing an alternative and stable avenue for datacores, albeit less rapidly should factional warfare become the main avenue - especially for those players that will still have no desire to engage in factional engagements. |
Nekopyat
Nee-Co
25
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 12:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Marbuel wrote:[quote=EmmaFromMarketing]
Okay, gameplay should reap greater rewards. Sure, more cooperative style play should earn greater rewards....
I think the tipping point that pisses people off is when CCP's developers cross the line from this to locking content based off failure to pew-pew or work in groups.
The devs and CSM live in a casual-free bubble and tend to forget that such players exist and would like to have access to parts of the game too, but since we generally do not interact with the favored groups... yeah.. old rant. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
784
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 13:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
As I've stated elsewhere, removal of the current R&D agent system is the wrong approach. It's not an ISK faucet, it doesn't contribute to the inflation issue.
The correct approach is to simply *add* datacores to the list of things that can be bought from those R&D corp's LP stores. Or add them as drops from NPC haulers. Leave the existing mechanics alone.
Natural market forces will then grind the passive R&D datacore farming down to a lower income level. Which is what has already happened over the past few years. Those L4 R&D agents used to be worth about 20-30M ISK value in datacores, but since datacore prices have naturally deteriorated over the years, now you only make 8-15M ISK value per month per agent. By adding a new source of supply through the LP store, that will probably drop to 4-5M per month per agent via the passive method.
Those who still want a bit of passive income are free to do so, but the payback time will start to be measured in months instead of weeks (right now, it takes you about a month to recoup the costs of the skillbooks). |
Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 13:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
I think Soundwave mentioned in the game mechanics panel that he wanted to get rid of t2 BPOs, though not any concrete information about having them removed. I really cant recall though, dont jump down my throat.
I'm not surprised frankly, they want people to play the game not just get isk when they log in every once in a blue moon. I dont think its a bad thing really. Honestly, the income isnt that impressive regardless. You can make the same amount easily with a few hours of work that you would have made in weeks of accumulating RP. I do quite a bit of research too so dont think Im just saying this from an outsiders point of view. |
Vince Snetterton
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
28
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:As I've stated elsewhere, removal of the current R&D agent system is the wrong approach. It's not an ISK faucet, it doesn't contribute to the inflation issue.
The correct approach is to simply *add* datacores to the list of things that can be bought from those R&D corp's LP stores. Or add them as drops from NPC haulers. Leave the existing mechanics alone.
Natural market forces will then grind the passive R&D datacore farming down to a lower income level. Which is what has already happened over the past few years. Those L4 R&D agents used to be worth about 20-30M ISK value in datacores, but since datacore prices have naturally deteriorated over the years, now you only make 8-15M ISK value per month per agent. By adding a new source of supply through the LP store, that will probably drop to 4-5M per month per agent via the passive method.
Those who still want a bit of passive income are free to do so, but the payback time will start to be measured in months instead of weeks (right now, it takes you about a month to recoup the costs of the skillbooks).
Bob, watch the interview.
Soundwave intends to completely REMOVE getting datacores through RP.
He says they will start slow by lowering the RP /agent, but says eventually the game mechanic will be completely removed.
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Longinius Spear
Double-Down
Narwhals Ate My Duck
21
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Posted - 2012.03.28 17:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tell me agian why they can't just remove t2 BPO's? Right now because of them manufacturing a T2 ship occurs at a loss. With the increase of Data core prices/fluctuation making a T2 ship without a BPO is going to be flat out ********.
If they want the end result to be greater market diversity and effort for isk, they should remove T2 BPOs all together. Or alteast put some sort of per month limit on how many times they can be used, forcing large alliances who hold zillions of t2 bpos to compete with the rest of the little people over new found faction warfare data core sources.
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