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Stop bigotry in eve

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steveid All Hallows Eve Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2008.07.14 20:03:00 - [1] Edited by: steveid on 14/07/2008 20:02:52 I for one hate bigots, they really bother me. With a gay brother and a black girlfriend I encounter them daily lol but hell I dont think anyone should have to be subjected to it ingame or on the forums so: Proposal 1: Change the word filter. Proposal 2: Make bigotry a bannable offense on eve-o. Not a permenant ban, but a slap down as appropriate. Proposal 3: Make bigotry a mutable offense in eve (1 week / 1 month / lifetime) in the local channel. I think personally this is a no brainer and should be like this already. I would hope 1 and 2 are implemented ASAP altho i recognize the problems with 3. From a legal perspective leaving homophobic words around while covering racial words is dodgy but tbh its not even an argument, it should just happen.
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant	Posted - 2008.07.14 22:02:00 - [2] Two and three are already that way (sort of). As for a word filter, get a life, seriously. They're words. If you don't want to hear them, block the person. I see games/items that implement word filters that are not optional as completely childish and immature.
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.15 00:49:00 - [3] Originally by: Eternal Error I see games/items that implement word filters that are not optional as completely childish and immature. And yet people still implement them. Why? Because other people will get **ed if they didnt. See, on one hand you please some and off others, and on the other hand, if you didnt, you ** off the first group, and please the second. Its just a matter of numbers. More people would like the word filters in, either out of comfort in not reading something that jives with their vocabulary, may be read by their minor out-of-context, etc. -
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant	Posted - 2008.07.15 01:52:00 - [4] Really? I'd like to see the stats that say more people want one in.
Kanagawa	Posted - 2008.07.15 02:53:00 - [5] Hmmmm.... while it may not be pleasant, these are merely words. Option 3 is a good idea, but the other two dont work. Free speech is a immutable right, and I would side with the bigots to fight for it. Im new to mmorpgs, and computers in general, but the most glaring aspect I've noticed is how people interact. There is no threat of violence when blogging or gaming. It will be interesting to see how this will affect our world, when violence re-enters the equation.

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.07.15 06:41:00 - [6] If you encounter activity in game that you'd consider to be of a bigot nature, or are offended by anything, please create a petition here under the harassment category. I assure you this is not condoned by us and we do take action on a daily basis against it. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang

Kanagawa	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:15:00 - [7] Originally by: CCP Mitnal If you encounter activity in game that you'd consider to be of a bigot nature, or are offended by anything, please create a petition here under the harassment category. I assure you this is not condoned by us and we do take action on a daily basis against it. offended by anything.... where does it end?
Lt Graco	Posted - 2008.07.15 21:51:00 - [8] Originally by: Kanagawa offended by anything.... where does it end? That's not very sensitive of you. I happen to be 1/32 Polish and my next door neighbor's great-great-great Aunt passed through Botswana once! Please have some consideration for others when posting.
Kanagawa	Posted - 2008.07.16 06:38:00 - [9] Originally by: Lt Graco Originally by: Kanagawa offended by anything.... where does it end? That's not very sensitive of you. I happen to be 1/32 Polish and my next door neighbor's great-great-great Aunt passed through Botswana once! Please have some consideration for others when posting.
Shadi Dee	Posted - 2008.07.25 09:41:00 - [10] Originally by: steveid Edited by: steveid on 14/07/2008 20:02:52 I for one hate bigots, they really bother me. With a gay brother and a black girlfriend I encounter them daily lol but hell I dont think anyone should have to be subjected to it ingame or on the forums so: Proposal 1: Change the word filter. Proposal 2: Make bigotry a bannable offense on eve-o. Not a permenant ban, but a slap down as appropriate. Proposal 3: Make bigotry a mutable offense in eve (1 week / 1 month / lifetime) in the local channel. I think personally this is a no brainer and should be like this already. I would hope 1 and 2 are implemented ASAP altho i recognize the problems with 3. From a legal perspective leaving homophobic words around while covering racial words is dodgy but tbh its not even an argument, it should just happen. You sir have a "hate" issue thus you're a bigot. I don't like pink people. See..? Far from hate. Nobody hates gay people, some may not like them. Are they allowed to dislike them? I'd say yes. Now, you are in a game impersonating a character, a game where amarr guys use minmatar guys as slaves. Amarrians doesn't even have to hate minmatars, they are just life stock, how about that.. Finally, you want your real life rights to be respected in game where piracy, theft, scams, slavery (to mention only few) are highly encouraged? Education is what will define you later, but you still like the game, don't you? In game you are offended if I use words like "scum" or "sleezbag" referring to you? Btw, this is how my agent thinks about you. Give it a thought you bigots hater.

B0rn2KiLL MicroFunks	Posted - 2008.07.25 10:57:00 - [11] That's exactly why the commons are ruled by the intellegencia. also, statistics show that there are less intellegent people than there are commons, you deduce the rest. - I'm against a wordfilter. - Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Originally by: Eternal Error I see games/items that implement word filters that are not optional as completely childish and immature. And yet people still implement them. Why? Because other people will get **ed if they didnt. See, on one hand you please some and off others, and on the other hand, if you didnt, you off the first group, and please the second. Its just a matter of numbers. More people would like the word filters in, either out of comfort in not reading something that jives with their vocabulary, may be read by their minor out-of-context, etc. --- Originally by:** Oveur It's important to understand that EVE is a "PvP" focused game
TheMailman GreenSwarm Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.27 12:25:00 - [12] what might be offensive somewhere, it might be considered normal somewhere else. i dislike behaviour limits. also, limiting 'bigots' view's makes you a bigot (by definion of dictionary.com)
Nareth Mordonis	Posted - 2008.07.28 23:26:00 - [13] How does the old American saying go? I may disagree with your opinions, however I will fight to the death for your right to express them. That's not it word for word, but it is something similiar. This has been debated over and over and over. What it comes down to is personal responsibility. If you don't like the tv show, turn it off. You don't have to listen to something you don't want to, there is an ignore feature for a reason. Yes I find most bigotry distasteful, but I would not in any point in time desire to control how people think or feel, or even what I believe they should be allowed to say. That brings the question who would even decide what would be allowed? What if what I think should be allowed is not what you think, or vice versa? Who is right? You or I? If your brother is gay? So what? How does that make him any different from me that requires me to treat him special? You have a black girlfriend? Does that mean you are any more special than me? Why can't I have special treatment? I assume that even though some of my post is a bit sarcastic that you get the idea. Forcing people to think or speak how you want them to does nothing but turn you into the same kind of person/people that many races, religions, genders, and so on have been fighting against for centuries.
Sile Suirghiche Minmatar Gaidhlig Technology	Posted - 2008.07.30 18:38:00 - [14] Edited by: Sile Suirghiche on 30/07/2008 18:39:26 Originally by: Nareth Mordonis How does the old American saying go? I may disagree with your opinions, however I will fight to the death for your right to express them. That's not it word for word, but it is something similiar. Neither Evelyn Beatrice Hall nor Voltaire (who she was describing when she said that) were American. Originally by: Nareth Mordonis If your brother is gay? So what? How does that make him any different from me that requires me to treat him special? You're missing the point. Nobody is asking for "special treatment". It's just that it's neither appropriate nor fair to make assumptions or assertions about someone based on some unrelated category they happen to fit into. If I call you stupid because of something you did, that's one thing (although still rather rude), but if I call you stupid because of where you were born (and thereby call every single other person who was born there stupid by implication) that's beyond the pale. We're a private community here. There's absolutely nothing wrong with expecting certain minimum standards of behavior in the community. If you really can't stop yourself from being openly and aggressively racist, homophobic, misogynistic or whatever nobody is "stopping you", we're just saying don't do it here. If it makes you feel better I'll fight to the death for your right to start your own forum and say what you like there.
Markov Chaney	Posted - 2008.07.30 21:37:00 - [15] it's ok to be bigoted in game right, like my caldari character is a racist against minmatar scum?
Sile Suirghiche Minmatar Gaidhlig Technology	Posted - 2008.07.30 21:42:00 - [16] Originally by: Markov Chaney it's ok to be bigoted in game right, like my caldari character is a racist against minmatar scum? Sure.
Laila Eldgorn Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.08.01 16:19:00 - [17] ... I demand my right to be a "redneck". If you can't handle the text on screen use block button. I think it should be clear for anyone playing eve that there's bad words and bad people or whatsoever stuff not fit in "Your Rightful Ethics (tm)" around there. People should not be forced to watch their every word in fear of banning or whatsoever. Also, gays don't get into paradise, I hear.
Internet Knight	Posted - 2008.08.02 03:53:00 - [18] Originally by: steveid I for one hate bigots, they really bother me. I for one really hate certain kinds of people. Just because you hate certain kinds of people doesn't mean you should be any meaner towards them. But in any case, words are just words. If you get angry because of something that someone you do not know had said in a fairly-anonymous online chatroom... well, let's just say that there are people better than you: better people don't get angry at words. I certainly am against the automatic filtering of chat channels. If it gets abusive, then certainly ask for a moderator (GM) to intervene. Hey, that's how it is now! The game isn't made for children, it's made for adults. If you can't handle words, GROW UP. --- How to resolve Singularity character syncing
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.08.02 23:30:00 - [19] Personally, I do not see where this sort of thing has anything to do here. EVE should be as open to cursing, extremism and despicable personalities as any other public forum. Why? Because EVE is a sandbox game. And because it will be all the more satisfying to sink people who express things like that out of the sky. I should say though, that I am not talking about taking this sort of thing to the extreme here. EVE is still a game with rules, of course. And forums still have rules as well. But such inoffensive things as cursing, personal bigotry and general stupidity should not really be limited, unless it degenerates into spam or moves up to an organized scale, such as neo-**** corporations, for example. And yes, this is coming from someone who cares very little for political correctness and who can easily be targeted by said bigots. But my common sense and the civilized man in me both say that anyone who has a problem with things like this on such a minor scale and who wants to weed even the slighter signs of bigotry out is likely either oversensitive or a manner of bigot themselves.
Vee T	Posted - 2008.08.03 00:15:00 - [20] I sympathize, but that's a pretty tall order. "Dear Internet Spaceship guys, Please fix the human race. They are jerks. Thanks"

Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.08.04 09:33:00 - [21] I have a saying: "No discrimination, no special treatment." ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Proxenetae Invicti	Posted - 2008.08.04 09:46:00 - [22] Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 04/08/2008 09:50:34 Originally by: Jowen Datloran I have a saying: "No discrimination, no special treatment." Seconded. However, the use of the term nano* annoys the hell out of me. Is is the use of 'gay' as a derogatory term. That's neither discrmination or special treatment, but implied negativity - which, whilst not directly bad, keeps momentum going on the discrimination. If you see what I mean. I got a bit lost there. Hell, Eve's oldest character player (me) is gay. EDIT: So that means if I find the use of the word 'gay' or '' as derogatory, I can petition each use of it? Fantastic! Excuse me whilst I lag the system. -- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work.*
Ambre Summerbourne	Posted - 2008.08.09 06:19:00 - [23] Edited by: Ambre Summerbourne on 09/08/2008 06:23:32 Edited by: Ambre Summerbourne on 09/08/2008 06:20:03 Originally by: Sile Suirghiche Edited by: Sile Suirghiche on 30/07/2008 18:39:26 Originally by: Nareth Mordonis How does the old American saying go? I may disagree with your opinions, however I will fight to the death for your right to express them. That's not it word for word, but it is something similiar. Neither Evelyn Beatrice Hall nor Voltaire (who she was describing when she said that) were American. Originally by: Nareth Mordonis If your brother is gay? So what? How does that make him any different from me that requires me to treat him special? You're missing the point. Nobody is asking for "special treatment". It's just that it's neither appropriate nor fair to make assumptions or assertions about someone based on some unrelated category they happen to fit into.... (edited quote to save space, sorry) I appoligize for the misquote. I never actually knew where it came from, only that many have said it when making statements about the first amendment. So I jumped to the conclusion that it was an American saying. As for the rest, yes he is asking for special treatment. This is the internet and a video game as close to being a public forum as one can get (only teathered by the rules set forth by CCP). You are going to get jerks and idiots, alot of them joke around with thier friends and such using terms that someone else may find offensive. To ask them to stop simply because you are offended is asking for special treatment. In an example if I find the color blue offensive, does it mean that I have the right to demand no one be allowed to wear blue when around me? No, I simply must learn to live with it, or avoid it. The responsibility falls on me, not the rest of the world. By asking the rest of the world to conform to my views, I am indeed asking for special treatment. In this case it is similiar. His views and opinions differ from others, so he is asking the others to conform to his opinions or views. Even more so to simply not be allowed to express any opinions or views that may clash with his. That in my opinion is asking for special treatment. I have learned long ago that it is not possible to change the opinions or ideals of others. That it is something they must do for themselves. If I do not wish to hear them, then it is my responsibility to ensure I do not. This is what it all boils down to, responsibility for yourself. Rather than accept it, people try to place it on others. People like that have the mindset of "If I do not wish to hear you then I will stand here and not allow you to speak, thereby making you responsible for what I hear". Also I would like to take this oppertunity to point out that by stating that he hates bigots, by deffinition makes him what he claims to hate. Not exactly ironic, but that is the only word that comes to mind at 2am. edited Realised I logged in the wrong character, sorry.
los ojos COGNET SpaceSystems Ltd	Posted - 2008.08.13 21:54:00 - [24] If someone ****es you off because they say something bigoted or otherwise offends you, you've petitioned it, and you still hate them for it . . . I dunno . . . Put a bounty on them if you can't find them and pod them yourself. Hmm . . . My mind is wandering . . . How long before some enterprising individuals form a group that compile lists of players who have said something offensive, make those lists public, ask for donations of isk, and then place huge bounties on their heads? ^ There ya go! lo
Neth'Rae Gallente Decorum Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.14 18:50:00 - [25] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 04/08/2008 09:50:34 Originally by: Jowen Datloran I have a saying: "No discrimination, no special treatment." Seconded. However, the use of the term nano* annoys the hell out of me. Is is the use of 'gay' as a derogatory term. That's neither discrmination or special treatment, but implied negativity - which, whilst not directly bad, keeps momentum going on the discrimination. If you see what I mean. I got a bit lost there. Hell, Eve's oldest character player (me) is gay. EDIT: So that means if I find the use of the word 'gay' or '' as derogatory, I can petition each use of it? Fantastic! Excuse me whilst I lag the system. People flying nano ships also call themselves 'nano**s'? What if someone is actually gay and happen to fly nanoships? Dey see me trollin, dey hatin, moddin they tryin to catch me postin dirty..
Malar HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2008.08.14 21:12:00 - [26] Originally by: steveid Edited by: steveid on 14/07/2008 20:02:52 I for one hate bigots, they really bother me. With a gay brother and a black girlfriend I encounter them daily lol but hell I dont think anyone should have to be subjected to it ingame or on the forums so: Proposal 1: Change the word filter. Proposal 2: Make bigotry a bannable offense on eve-o. Not a permenant ban, but a slap down as appropriate. Proposal 3: Make bigotry a mutable offense in eve (1 week / 1 month / lifetime) in the local channel. I think personally this is a no brainer and should be like this already. I would hope 1 and 2 are implemented ASAP altho i recognize the problems with 3. From a legal perspective leaving homophobic words around while covering racial words is dodgy but tbh its not even an argument, it should just happen. See i have no problems with none of the skin colors or sexual preferences people might have. What i do have a problem with is when someone talks about bigotry in the same sentence in which he asks the authorities to stop people from voicing their opinions as it hurts their feelings. Live and let live aight? If works if you want it to work, but then you have to accept that it works both ways. --------------------------------------------- Comments in this post are mine and mine only
Faekurias Black Legion Command	Posted - 2008.08.15 12:04:00 - [27] Not hello kitty online, but yeah. There is always the H-petitioning. We are recruiting.
Fahtim Meidires Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.08.15 17:21:00 - [28] Originally by: Malar Edited by: Malar on 14/08/2008 21:19:04 Originally by: steveid Edited by: steveid on 14/07/2008 20:02:52 I for one hate bigots, they really bother me. With a gay brother and a black girlfriend I encounter them daily lol but hell I dont think anyone should have to be subjected to it ingame or on the forums so: Proposal 1: Change the word filter. Proposal 2: Make bigotry a bannable offense on eve-o. Not a permenant ban, but a slap down as appropriate. Proposal 3: Make bigotry a mutable offense in eve (1 week / 1 month / lifetime) in the local channel. I think personally this is a no brainer and should be like this already. I would hope 1 and 2 are implemented ASAP altho i recognize the problems with 3. From a legal perspective leaving homophobic words around while covering racial words is dodgy but tbh its not even an argument, it should just happen. See i have no problems with none of the skin colors or sexual preferences people might have. What i do have a problem with is when someone talks about bigotry in the same sentence in which he asks the authorities to stop people from voicing their opinions as it hurts their feelings. Live and let live aight? It works if you want it to work, but then you have to accept that it works both ways. Live and let die.
EmoKidWithKantana Spectrum Solutions INC	Posted - 2008.08.16 09:36:00 - [29] OPTIONAL WORLD-FILTER NAO! I want to be able to speak freely in a manor that might offend minors/sensetive people without hurting them, this would instantly solve that without beeing overly complicated
Serenity Steele	Posted - 2008.08.16 11:03:00 - [30] Is there something lacking in the EULA around this? Terms of Service Quote: EVE Online TERMS OF SERVICE As an Eve Online subscriber, you must observe and abide by the rules of conduct and policies outlined below, as well as the End User License Agreement. Failure to comply with these regulations can result in the immediate termination of your account and you will forfeit all unused access time to the game. No refunds will be given. 1. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee. 2. You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.) Petitioning does result in action. Do you want more visibility on what action is taken per class of offense, in order to judge if it's appropriate? ≡v≡ Strategic Maps in Eve-Online Store \| eve-maps.com



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