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Ray McCormack
hirr
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Posted - 2008.07.15 09:50:00 -
[31]
Originally by: HawkBlade My money is not in eBank anymore.
Divulge. I'd say you had an obligation to reveal any reasons for your resignation unless they were of a personal nature. If you feel eBank is no longer adhering to its principles, or cannot effectively continue, it's best you divulge that now.
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McRuder
Gallente Quality Dogfood
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Posted - 2008.07.15 09:57:00 -
[32]
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jna
Caldari Black Ash Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.07.15 11:21:00 -
[33]
Edited by: jna on 15/07/2008 11:22:21
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: HawkBlade My money is not in eBank anymore.
Divulge. I'd say you had an obligation to reveal any reasons for your resignation unless they were of a personal nature. If you feel eBank is no longer adhering to its principles, or cannot effectively continue, it's best you divulge that now.
Quoting this.
Also, from Ebank's perspective I believe there's only one thing worse than full disclosure of a potentially dramatic story - and that's the kind of hinted-at, thinly-veiled 'I was privvy to internal discussions, I don't think things are going in the right direction and I'm so concerned I've removed my iskies from the whole project' going-on here.
So will one of the two parties tell us what went on? I think there're strong arguments for both obligation as well as damage-control/PR.
EDIT: Oh, and I like a nice bit of juicy dramagoss as much as the next person, ofc  ------------------------------------------------- Caeleste naves interretis res gravissimas sunt |

Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.07.15 12:34:00 -
[34]
Life moves on... any board or public entity that doesn't have drama and heated debates are the ones you want to worry about. |

Proton Power
Amarr Power Corrupts Tech Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.15 12:40:00 -
[35]
I have been in and read a few arguments since being in Ebank for the past month or so.
I can say nothing has changed operational wise, if anything we are still moving forward as of this moment from what I see.
I think taking money out is drastic, but if you don't trust us then please do so, I would expect you to. -----------------------------------------------
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=439797Cli |

YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.07.15 12:43:00 -
[36]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/07/2008 12:45:54
What surprised me the most was that neither Hexxx nor Ricdic seem to care or attempt to sway Shar's decision. It's as if whatever the reason behind the resignation is irreconcilable. FFS people you've been working together for such a long time, you're practically good friends. Can't you put your differences aside or work out a compromise?
Upholding social values should be an end in itself not a means to an end. You're losing a friend in exchange of 30 silver coins. I wonder how long will it take before you take a shortcut towards profit and scam everyone. You people sicken me!
Motherships
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SentryRaven
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.15 12:49:00 -
[37]
Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/07/2008 12:44:54
What surprised me the most was that neither Hexxx nor Ricdic seem to care or attempt to sway Shar's decision.
You seriously believe that would happen on EVE-O?
-------- Killboard Admin Recruitment Director Forum Janitor |

YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.07.15 12:53:00 -
[38]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/07/2008 12:55:45
Originally by: SentryRaven
Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/07/2008 12:44:54
What surprised me the most was that neither Hexxx nor Ricdic seem to care or attempt to sway Shar's decision.
You seriously believe that would happen on EVE-O?
Originally by: EBANK Ricdic Sad to see you go Shar, but good luck in the future.
Just read this. It's an outrage. Shar was a good friend not a tool to be disposed of when it no longer served Ricdic's purpose.
Motherships
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Viilaa
Caldari Mad 4 Gaming
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Posted - 2008.07.15 12:55:00 -
[39]
Originally by: HawkBlade
So, I have to decide on breaking my word and disclosing in specific the reason(s) why I left or do I let my silence be taken as proof of facts that I do not believe anymore.
As much as I would like to know the story behind it (as I'm sure others do too) if you gave your word not to say then do not tell us. In the end all we have is our word - nothing else truly matters.
Viilaa
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Finedele
Marquie-X Corp Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.07.15 12:56:00 -
[40]
no it would not, but i would think i would not come into this thread stating this and that while i try to convince someone to reconsider his decision. but thats just my sight of things, but i must admit i am a bit concerned about this all. telling us nothing would be better than making some scary stuff from it
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.07.15 12:59:00 -
[41]
You guys at EBank still need to work on your communication skills.
1. You should have a policy that if a director / employee resign EBank makes an official post and the person resigning adheres to a joint statement (hopefully). 2. Only 1 person from EBank should be posting in this thread 3. All the directors posting with their opinions or clarifications always makes matters worse than they are.
There is probably not much going on here, but you have made it into a bigger drama than need be. The chances are know that you will have to make some sort of official clarification.
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Roguehalo
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.07.15 13:03:00 -
[42]
Ok I'm a bit bored so I thought I'd indulge in a bit of idle speculation. Firstly it's got to be a given that Ricdic is the cause of Shars' resignation so this speculation will be predicated upon that surmisal. Speculation 1 :- Ricdic has got bored with Ebank and is no longer pulling his weight leading to irreconcilable differences. Speculation 2 :- Ricdics' rather laissez faire attitude towards integrity and probity has resulted in irreconcilable differences possibly connected with the recent 'Ebank stole my Investment' thread
Please feel free to add your own speculations (omg there's another smiley)
Unless of course Shar decides to spill the beans and put us all out of our misery.
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Imperius Blackheart
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.15 13:31:00 -
[43]
Hmm as a generally satisfied Ebank customer I would ask for the directorate to explain what was behind the disagreement was that caused this.
Disagreements are good and healthy as I see it, to a point. However a board member leaving and taking all his funds with him (not showing continued faith or trust) is concerning, especially when so public. Considering he is in a much better position to make informed decisions than the rest of your customers people feeling slightly insecure is natural..
IĘd encourage you to at least come forward with an official statement regarding what the issue of contention was, you donĘt even have to be terribly specific but at least let us know how serious/what it was about.
An organisation with no regulation and based purely on trust like Ebank is hard for some to trust at all, and yet several of us do, and want to continue doing so.
Proud member of the Caldari Death Squad
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SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2008.07.15 13:52:00 -
[44]
EBank's internal "priorities" are Real Life comes first. If an EBank employee wishes to resign or leave EBank, we do not force them to stop. We make no bones about wishing and giving our heart felt opinion of the matter but we don't pressure them to stay.
I will personally miss Shar's on the board, as he and I tend to think on the same lines. I just never got the chance to say them first, always appeared to be "Backing" up the observations made by Shar. In a way without you beating me to the punch every time I'll be able to throw some first.
Shar as always we can banter at each other here. And I personally welcome you to speak your mind on EBank's public forums whenever you feel the urge to.
Amarr for Life |

Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.15 13:56:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Imperius Blackheart Hmm as a generally satisfied Ebank customer I would ask for the directorate to explain what was behind the disagreement was that caused this.
Disagreements are good and healthy as I see it, to a point. However a board member leaving and taking all his funds with him (not showing continued faith or trust) is concerning, especially when so public. Considering he is in a much better position to make informed decisions than the rest of your customers people feeling slightly insecure is natural..
IĘd encourage you to at least come forward with an official statement regarding what the issue of contention was, you donĘt even have to be terribly specific but at least let us know how serious/what it was about.
An organisation with no regulation and based purely on trust like Ebank is hard for some to trust at all, and yet several of us do, and want to continue doing so.
We will post a statement later on today, I'd rather we not launch into a discussion without Shar being around to give his side of things.
Myself and quite a few other Directors still consider Shar to be a good friend and I personally respect the man a great deal...we may not always do things the same way or agree on the same things, but I'm not going to "throw him under the bus" for that.
At heart, there is no crisis within EBANK, nor an impending explosion. As Shar hinted before, this is more about process, who does what, and the roles that people play within EBANK leadership. This is a Board issue as opposed to a staff issue.
For those that do wish to withdraw their funds, we have shifted our capitalization once more to be cash heavy for a while in light of recent events. Liquidity is always a high priority at EBANK and now is no different. The Bank is operationally sound in all respects.
That's about all that needs to be said at this paticular moment, more will be posted later in the day.
Director | www.eve-bank.net
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Imperius Blackheart
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.15 14:02:00 -
[46]
Thanks Hexxx, thats good enough for me.
/me gets on with life and feels reassured.
Proud member of the Caldari Death Squad
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari Lothian Quay Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.15 17:36:00 -
[47]
I was getting a little worried but Hexxx's response went a ways toward allaying my concerns. I await that public statement.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |

HawkBlade
Minmatar Starlancers
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Posted - 2008.07.15 17:54:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ray McCormack Divulge. I'd say you had an obligation to reveal any reasons for your resignation unless they were of a personal nature. If you feel eBank is no longer adhering to its principles, or cannot effectively continue, it's best you divulge that now.
Sorry, had a can not miss appointment that I'm recovering from but I'm back and can say that you are very right Ray. I told Hexxx last night that I've been remiss in my responsibility to divulge my concerns... and that was last night. Here is the statement I had prepared: LVV hit the nail on the head. Mis-communication and not enough team spirit. My analysis, the board of directors is in an awkward position. They've placed Ricdic in an awkward position and how he's adapted to it has placed the board in an awkward position. Given this combination of factors, and the personalities involved, there is little board oversight over Ricdic's actions. This is the fault of the board, the majority, as they've been far too inactive, too quiet, and basically uninvolved far too much. Ricdic has come to develop the habit of not seeking the board's counsel or reporting to the board because of that. However this has caused some serious events to take place. Now, imho, the board has no ability to exercise any authority over Ricdic's actions. Whether it is from apathy, fear, or collusion I really don't know. All I do know is that the board almost barely knows what is going on except for after something has be done. For my own sake, I tend to be a "wtf" kind of person. I'll see something, find out something, or be told something and I'm like "wtf?" Ricdic, himself, can sometimes be impetuous, defensive, and occasionally falls for his own hype. This means that the sparks between him and myself can be quite pronounced. We are very alike so we tend to slam our heads together quite hard. But, to the question at hand, Ric believes that I'm resigning because of the nature of someone he recently hired to be part of eBank. I'm resigning because when I asked for accountability I was told to "keep in my place". I resigned because when I told Ricdic to not think to high of himself, that he was only first amongst equals, his replay was "Yeh, ok. Sure." Thus I found myself totally in a position where the person with their hands on the incoming funds, a person who recently spent 175 billion without asking permission, pointedly looked me in the face and said, "And what can you do about it?" The answer was nothing but resign.
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.07.15 17:55:00 -
[49]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/07/2008 18:03:43
Originally by: Kwint Sommer I was getting a little worried but Hexxx's response went a ways toward allaying my concerns. I await that public statement.
"Absolutely!" In fact from now on Ebank can lose as many key members as Ricdic desires, as long as it releases a public statement and has enough liquidities to cope with the subsequent wave of withdrawals prompted by utter disgust if not pertinent concern for one's own isk. With such level of competence I am surprised this "enterprise" is still afloat.
Originally by: Astorothe Ah rgr. Shame to see you go Shar. I reckon you would have been keeping the bastards honest! 
This says it all.
Motherships
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari Lothian Quay Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.15 18:07:00 -
[50]
Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/07/2008 18:03:43
Originally by: Kwint Sommer I was getting a little worried but Hexxx's response went a ways toward allaying my concerns. I await that public statement.
"Absolutely!" In fact from now on Ebank can lose as many key members as Ricdic desires, as long as it releases a public statement and has enough liquidities to cope with the subsequent wave of withdrawals prompted by utter disgust if not pertinent concern for one's own isk. With such level of competence I am surprised this "enterprise" is still afloat.
Originally by: Astorothe Ah rgr. Shame to see you go Shar. I reckon you would have been keeping the bastards honest! 
This says it all.
With such quality of posts I'm surprised you haven't ruined your reputation and been banned for trolling. Oh wait. 
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |

YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.07.15 18:09:00 -
[51]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/07/2008 18:16:26
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
With such quality of posts I'm surprised you haven't ruined your reputation and been banned for trolling. Oh wait. 
Everyone knows where your loyalty stands when it comes to discussing Ebank issues. I really wasn't expecting an unbiased opinion... next time try surprising me! 
Motherships
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HawkBlade
Minmatar Starlancers
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Posted - 2008.07.15 18:12:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer With such quality of posts I'm surprised you haven't ruined your reputation and been banned for trolling. Oh wait. 
What is sad is that his original post was very very good. If he could've left it unedited it would've been a damned powerful statement. I was immensely surprised at the insightful-ness and brevity of the original. That's the sad thing though that he doesn't yet understand. Leave your posts unedited mate and you might get some credibility and >gasps< respect. The constant editing ....
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.07.15 18:13:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 15/07/2008 18:15:59
Originally by: HawkBlade Here is the statement I had prepared:
LVV hit the nail on the head. Mis-communication and not enough team spirit.
My analysis, the board of directors is in an awkward position. They've placed Ricdic in an awkward position and how he's adapted to it has placed the board in an awkward position. Given this combination of factors, and the personalities involved, there is little board oversight over Ricdic's actions.
This is the fault of the board, the majority, as they've been far too inactive, too quiet, and basically uninvolved far too much. Ricdic has come to develop the habit of not seeking the board's counsel or reporting to the board because of that. However this has caused some serious events to take place.
Now, imho, the board has no ability to exercise any authority over Ricdic's actions. Whether it is from apathy, fear, or collusion I really don't know. All I do know is that the board almost barely knows what is going on except for after something has be done.
For my own sake, I tend to be a "wtf" kind of person. I'll see something, find out something, or be told something and I'm like "wtf?" Ricdic, himself, can sometimes be impetuous, defensive, and occasionally falls for his own hype. This means that the sparks between him and myself can be quite pronounced. We are very alike so we tend to slam our heads together quite hard.
But, to the question at hand, Ric believes that I'm resigning because of the nature of someone he recently hired to be part of eBank. I'm resigning because when I asked for accountability I was told to "keep in my place". I resigned because when I told Ricdic to not think to high of himself, that he was only first amongst equals, his replay was "Yeh, ok. Sure."
Thus I found myself totally in a position where the person with their hands on the incoming funds, a person who recently spent 175 billion without asking permission, pointedly looked me in the face and said, "And what can you do about it?"
The answer was nothing but resign.
Now, although it is phrased in most polite manner, or as polite as you can be - you have raised some issues that should be of concern to the shareholders and depositors? Don't you agree? This does not appear a simple tension that results in someone quitting a position as not to be disturbed.
Things like:
"...[B]oard, the majority, as they've been far too inactive, too quiet..." and, "Ricdic has come to develop the habit of not seeking the board's counsel or reporting to the board because of that. However this has caused some serious events to take place."
Accountability and responsibility, and involvement are pretty important when managing assets like those of EBANK, no? So, this has to be elaborated on by the remaining directors and Ricdic.
"[B]oard has no ability to exercise any authority over Ricdic's actions" - again a very serious statement, which is further underpinned by "board almost barely knows what is going on except for after something has be(sic) done." Needs to be clarified by the remaining members/directors.
Everything else seems to be a personal conflict between yourself and Ricdic, which is fine, and really is no one else's business, unless you want them to know.
The major issues you seem to try and, smooth out - but without too much "smoothing" - seems to be that according to you EBANK is in shambles when it comes to leadership, that decisions are being made one-sidedly and that mistakes are being made which will potentially affect the investors and depositors detrimentally.
Those are the important points that need to be considered by the Directors, Investors, and Depositors - sensible people would be worried after hearing those quotes. So, clarification from the board, or some soothing sounds should probably be forthcoming.
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.07.15 18:20:00 -
[54]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 15/07/2008 18:20:33
Originally by: HawkBlade
Originally by: Kwint Sommer With such quality of posts I'm surprised you haven't ruined your reputation and been banned for trolling. Oh wait. 
What is sad is that his original post was very very good. If he could've left it unedited it would've been a damned powerful statement. I was immensely surprised at the insightful-ness and brevity of the original. That's the sad thing though that he doesn't yet understand. Leave your posts unedited mate and you might get some credibility and >gasps< respect. The constant editing ....
At the moment you posted I was still in process of writing my own post. I was completely unaware of what you wrote. But I'll edit it back.
Motherships
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari Lothian Quay Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.15 18:28:00 -
[55]
Originally by: HawkBlade I'm resigning because when I asked for accountability I was told to "keep in my place". I resigned because when I told Ricdic to not think to high of himself, that he was only first amongst equals, his replay was "Yeh, ok. Sure."
Thus I found myself totally in a position where the person with their hands on the incoming funds, a person who recently spent 175 billion without asking permission, pointedly looked me in the face and said, "And what can you do about it?"
The answer was nothing but resign.
So basically it comes down to a question of whether Ricdic is king or just chief executive. He founded the bank and from the sound of it the board hasn't been very active so he's use to acting with impunity. You guys got in an argument, he made it clear that he's king and the board didn't try to assert its authority so you resigned.
That's a nasty but predictable predicament. Ricdic can justify being king and you do need a strong executive but there's good reason to have a board that has actual power rather than simply advising. 
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |

Ray McCormack
hirr
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Posted - 2008.07.15 18:29:00 -
[56]
Shar, this is something I've feared from the start, and incidentally was behind the reason for my recent request for the board to release their risk spread. I feel Ricdic is in well over his head, both on a maturity and ability level.
Recently I've discovered a few details that make me honestly believe eBank is in no position to be expanding to the levels it is. There are not enough checks and procedures in place, and far too much reliance is placed on Ricdic's integrity and ability. Neither of which I have faith in, nor should I or anyone else be required to.
For an entity that has designs on being a controlling force in the market, it's wholly lacking in internal infrastructure.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.15 18:33:00 -
[57]
EBANK is, in many ways, a living thing. As it grows and matures, it does at times experience something akin to growing pains. I'm not going to sit here and tell any of you that we get it all 100% right, 100% of the time. It just isn't true. What is true is that we make sure that we constantly strive to improve the way things work.
To put it another way, EBANK is constantly making course corrections, adapting and responding to whatever challenge we have before us. Alot of the contention that we experienced lately was linked to a discussion on what authority EBANK's operational arm has independent of it's Board of Directors. The Board was never intended to micro-manage some of EBANK's operational aspects, but at the same time, operations should align itself with strategic goals set forth by the Board. There is some blurring of the lines here, and the debate over what is appropriate and who has what authority is partly how we got to where we are today. Transparency is another topic that sprung up during all of this...I like to think that EBANK's internal transparency is pretty good, but we can do better.
The Board is not ignoring Shar's resignation or his opinion. The Board is discussing and debating in earnest the challenges we have in defining roles.
On a related note...
Ricdic is very important to EBANK's revenue in terms of processing loans and working on alternate revenue streams. However...as we diversify revenue streams we are diversifying the people who directly work to bring in that revenue. I would point to Proton Power as an example of someone who is helping us achieve that goal (this is our official announcement that PP has joined EBANK by the way ).
Director | www.eve-bank.net
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.07.15 18:41:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Hexxx I would point to Proton Power as an example of someone who is helping us achieve that goal (this is our official announcement that PP has joined EBANK by the way ).

Ummm .... odd choice given recent events but okay. |

Kwint Sommer
Caldari Lothian Quay Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.15 18:45:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Ray McCormack Recently I've discovered a few details that make me honestly believe eBank is in no position to be expanding to the levels it is. There are not enough checks and procedures in place, and far too much reliance is placed on Ricdic's integrity and ability. Neither of which I have faith in, nor should I or anyone else be required to.
I can't speak to his ability but I will speak to his integrity. In my out of game chats with Ricdic it was very clear that he long ago reached enough personal wealth to satisfy himself. He doesn't run EBANK to increase his own wealth, he does it because he enjoys the financial side of EVE and frankly because he enjoys the power and prestige that comes with it. I would bet the balance of my RL bank account that he would never sacrifice that. What does he gain by scamming EBANK? A whole lot more ISK that he won't ever do anything with, he already has more personal wealth than he'll ever use and in exchange he'd once more be nothing more than a humble, mid-level employee. He'd loose all the respect and importance he has now and to him I honestly believe that's worth more than any amount of ISK.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |

YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.07.15 18:45:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Hexxx
The Board is not ignoring Shar's resignation or his opinion.
Does that mean you'll have Shar back and see to it that such things never happen again? I mean obviously you guys have some teamwork issues to solve but it's nothing the Board can't overcome. Right?
Motherships
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