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Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:48:00 - [61] Edited by: Athre on 15/07/2008 18:52:49 Originally by: Ray McCormack For an entity that has designs on being a controlling force in the market, it's wholly lacking in internal infrastructure. The infrastructure is being looked at yet again but the amount of incidence in the passed has worn Shar out. Ebank can move forward and it is my hope that the revised Roles and Responsibilities go a long way for not only setting expectations of the board but for all Ebank employees.
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:51:00 - [62] Originally by: Athre Ebank can move forward and it is my hope that the revised Roles and Responsibilities go a long way for not only setting expectations of the board but for all Ebank employees. Fixed. This isn't thanksgiving! j/k Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:53:00 - [63] thanks AC! speeling was never my strong suit ;)
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:55:00 - [64] np mate. just trying to lift the mood a bit in here at your expense. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Slanty McGarglefist	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:55:00 - [65] Edited by: Slanty McGarglefist on 15/07/2008 18:59:39 Nm. __________________________________________________ Originally by: CCP Wrangler No Doh!
jongalt	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:58:00 - [66] shar [in]tegral, given what you have written, i really wish you would have stayed with eBank. if only as a silent watchdog or 1-person oversight committee. now there is no watchdog. would that have been ethical? depends on the context, i guess. good luck, though, with everything. im sure it was a difficult decision that weighed heavily. -0.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.15 18:59:00 - [67] Originally by: YouGotRipped Originally by: Hexxx The Board is not ignoring Shar's resignation or his opinion. Does that mean you'll have Shar back and see to it that such things never happen again? I mean obviously you guys have some teamwork issues to solve but it's nothing the Board can't overcome. Right? I'm not going to promise that this is the last disagreement between Board members...we have them all the time. They normally get resolved or we work things out or we come to an agreement. Rarely do people resign over them I do believe that for all the disagreements and debates, the Board generally overcomes them all. I've been talking to some of our guys about opening EBANK up to a completely indepedent 3rd party audit. I'll be raising it before the Board as well. I can't promise it'll happen, but I will bring it to the Board for discussion. Director \| www.eve-bank.net
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:05:00 - [68] I am surprised no one has asked the big question hanging out there. What did Ricdic/EBank spend 175B ISk on?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:06:00 - [69] Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: YouGotRipped Originally by: Hexxx The Board is not ignoring Shar's resignation or his opinion. Does that mean you'll have Shar back and see to it that such things never happen again? I mean obviously you guys have some teamwork issues to solve but it's nothing the Board can't overcome. Right? I'm not going to promise that this is the last disagreement between Board members...we have them all the time. They normally get resolved or we work things out or we come to an agreement. Rarely do people resign over them I do believe that for all the disagreements and debates, the Board generally overcomes them all. I've been talking to some of our guys about opening EBANK up to a completely indepedent 3rd party audit. I'll be raising it before the Board as well. I can't promise it'll happen, but I will bring it to the Board for discussion. If you do open up to a third party audit, please be sure that the information released is well agreed upon in advance by both your customers, operating arm, and board. And extremely limited in scope. ...honestly I wouldn't even begin to think of such an action, but I can appreciate why directors might feel a need to have one at this point.
Mazzarins Demise Profit Development and Research Association	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:08:00 - [70] Originally by: cosmoray I am surprised no one has asked the big question hanging out there. What did Ricdic/EBank spend 175B ISk on? I can scarcely imagine what costs 175B in this game. I can barely reach 1 billion .
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:11:00 - [71] Originally by: jongalt now there is no watchdog. OK, I guess I'll make a post now. I know it is a big deal that shar is leaving, and I can undertsand why. I have nothing but the utmost respect for him and the things he says/does. So much so that the last time he was in the hospital and couldn't get in Eve I had a laptop boxed up to send to him before I found out that he was doing ok and headed home. BUT, this does not make the rest of the board uselss. They aren't all a bunch of mindless idiots. Just to use Hexxx as an example, do you really think the "Big Bad mind controlling" Ricdic could change Hexxx's integrity and ideals? I'd bet my RL bank account that he couldn't. There was a disagreement on process and procedure not on whether to scam or not. Something most of you are missing here is not whether you should pull your isk out for fear that it won't be here tomorrow but instead what the problems were and are they being addressed and is there some way to verify that they are being/need to be addressed. When things like this happen they generally signify one thing, change. I believe change is a good and necessary thing so long as there is leadership in place to change in a positive way. Shar NEEDS to leave ebank so they can use this as a time for change and improvement and also for his health. That is my belief on this issue. Personally, I will be depositing an extra 10b into my sweep account as soon as I am home as a show of the faith I have in this institution and its leadership. This isn't the end of the world guys, it is a chance to take a small step back and look at the operation as a whole and then to make the necessary changes so that Ebank can move forward with continued success. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:12:00 - [72] Originally by: Mazzarins Demise Originally by: cosmoray I am surprised no one has asked the big question hanging out there. What did Ricdic/EBank spend 175B ISk on? I can scarcely imagine what costs 175B in this game. I can barely reach 1 billion . Hot delicious maple syrup
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:14:00 - [73] Edited by: cosmoray on 15/07/2008 19:15:03 The more I think about this, it brings up some concerns. 1. It is a shame that Shar left the bank, as I do beleive that you need strong opinions to provide a balance against the CEO. 2. There should be rules about authorized spending levels by bank employees. i.e. It is right for the CEO to be able to use the bank finances on investments up to a LIMIT. When the total level of investments or a single investment reaches that level the CEO should require board approval. If it turns out that there is no oversight to directors actions, then what does the board do or influence? If the answer is not a lot then you shouldn't be there. If anything happens to the bank (folds/undercapitalized) all the board members reputations will be ruined. Of course this is all speculation, but unfortunately EBank will HAVE to make a statement about the 175B ISk, to stop market rumor and possible panic.
Martosh Toma Gallente Fraction Investment	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:16:00 - [74] Soory but the news that PP is joining you does not make me that happy. I do not question his Integrety but I am not too happy with the results of his latest public investment see http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=739299&page=1 noted the promise for 3.5%, the isk was to be sent in april, the first divident was in june (over the month may) Total dividents over the juration of the investment was about 3%, to be fair it is still a profit but it is far short of the promised 3.5% per month. I took the liberty of underlining the importand bit in the quote Quote: 3. The minimum Dividends will be 3.5%. If I don't hit this amount I will take my isk and make it this amount. The only exception to this is the June 1st Dividend. Based on what I am doing, I am not sure how that dividend is going to turn out. I have Decided to withdraw almost all my isk from EBank at this time. Not because I think I will be scammed, nor do I fear getting stiffed on the agreed intrest payment. But I am not happy with the things as they are being portrayed at this time. I am using both options availeble to show my displeasure, posting and withdrawal.
Mazzarins Demise Profit Development and Research Association	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:23:00 - [75] Originally by: Martosh Toma The IPO Fixed the link for you Martosh.
Martosh Toma Gallente Fraction Investment	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:25:00 - [76] thx for teaching me how it works and sorry for the spelling errors
HawkBlade Minmatar Starlancers	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:32:00 - [77] Originally by: cosmoray 2. There should be rules about authorized spending levels by bank employees. i.e. It is right for the CEO to be able to use the bank finances on investments up to a LIMIT. When the total level of investments or a single investment reaches that level the CEO should require board approval. I should clarify, there are (or were) rules regarding such matters. However those who make the rules aren't always in a position to enforce those rules. Hexxx does provide a measure of control over Ricdic, like AC pointed out, but Hexxx also has a personal life and when Hexxx ain't around (which is quite often) Ric acts the buffoon. And yes, I'm going to outright say it. Kwint is right, I think it unlikely that Ric will just take the money. However I don't think any one on the board knows what Ric will do if the board asked him to step down. He's quite full of his "power" and his "prestige". Otherwise he wouldn't have specifically told the board to "stay in their place" over matters they felt needed to be addressed. (Also notice how he keeps posting with "Ebank Ricdic" - That's branding peeps. Not advertising Ebank, it is advertising that Ebank belongs to Ricdic.) Ray hit the nail on the head. Ric has exceeded his abilities by aligning himself with others more competent than he. This is smart of course. The problem is that he thinks the ongoing successes is on account of him and not the others around him. Worry about the day when Ric goes and does something without someone watching over him. I have no confidence in eBank from the behaviors of the CEO, the chairman, and the board. Hexxx simply doesn't have the time to ensure compliance, most of the other board members have no way of insisting on compliance, and Ric has already demonstrated (to the cost of two directors now) that he will do whatever he thinks regardless of what others say. Point in fact: Ric said as loan officer he could, and would, write himself a loan as he knew he was good for it. These boards lit up like a bonfire from the such ego and hubris. So did we the board. So instead of giving himself a 100 billion isk loan without permission... he went and give himself a 175 billion isk loan without permission. That's just a breach of faith, trust, and ethics. Virtual boardroom or real life it's wrong. As I was resigning in disgust the board then went about retroactively approving that loan and then started debating about letting Ric be able to spend, at his discretion, 33% of the banks total deposits. I have to tell you, with all of my integrity, that eBank is doomed to fail because there is no oversight over the person spending the money and I honestly believe that until eBank removes Ric's mouth of the isk tit... there will never be any effective oversight. In the words of one director, "Ric has often run eBank as his own personal fiefdom. We don't need someone going out and telling the public this truth." [paraphrase] Ironic that when Ricdic told me to keep in my place he reminded me what my place was. It was to resign and inform the public that the product they've bought is no longer true.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:34:00 - [78] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Originally by: jongalt now there is no watchdog. OK, I guess I'll make a post now. I know it is a big deal that shar is leaving, and I can undertsand why. I have nothing but the utmost respect for him and the things he says/does. So much so that the last time he was in the hospital and couldn't get in Eve I had a laptop boxed up to send to him before I found out that he was doing ok and headed home. BUT, this does not make the rest of the board uselss. They aren't all a bunch of mindless idiots. Just to use Hexxx as an example, do you really think the "Big Bad mind controlling" Ricdic could change Hexxx's integrity and ideals? I'd bet my RL bank account that he couldn't. There was a disagreement on process and procedure not on whether to scam or not. Something most of you are missing here is not whether you should pull your isk out for fear that it won't be here tomorrow but instead what the problems were and are they being addressed and is there some way to verify that they are being/need to be addressed. When things like this happen they generally signify one thing, change. I believe change is a good and necessary thing so long as there is leadership in place to change in a positive way. Shar NEEDS to leave ebank so they can use this as a time for change and improvement and also for his health. That is my belief on this issue. Personally, I will be depositing an extra 10b into my sweep account as soon as I am home as a show of the faith I have in this institution and its leadership. This isn't the end of the world guys, it is a chance to take a small step back and look at the operation as a whole and then to make the necessary changes so that Ebank can move forward with continued success. That pretty much nails it. I will make another statement later on this evening when I have time to form a proper follow-up to all of this. Director \| www.eve-bank.net
HawkBlade Minmatar Starlancers	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:36:00 - [79] Originally by: Hexxx That pretty much nails it. And at this point, I am calling you a liar sir.
HawkBlade Minmatar Starlancers	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:37:00 - [80] And could you please ask Ricdic to stop attacking Athre, in game, over my actions?
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:41:00 - [81] Originally by: HawkBlade And could you please ask Ricdic to stop attacking Athre, in game, over my actions? BTW where is Ricdic when we want to crucify him? Motherships
Xelios Xarxes	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:42:00 - [82] Edited by: Xelios Xarxes on 15/07/2008 19:44:36
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:43:00 - [83] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: cosmoray 2. There should be rules about authorized spending levels by bank employees. i.e. It is right for the CEO to be able to use the bank finances on investments up to a LIMIT. When the total level of investments or a single investment reaches that level the CEO should require board approval. I should clarify, there are (or were) rules regarding such matters. However those who make the rules aren't always in a position to enforce those rules. Hexxx does provide a measure of control over Ricdic, like AC pointed out, but Hexxx also has a personal life and when Hexxx ain't around (which is quite often) Ric acts the buffoon. And yes, I'm going to outright say it. Kwint is right, I think it unlikely that Ric will just take the money. However I don't think any one on the board knows what Ric will do if the board asked him to step down. He's quite full of his "power" and his "prestige". Otherwise he wouldn't have specifically told the board to "stay in their place" over matters they felt needed to be addressed. (Also notice how he keeps posting with "Ebank Ricdic" - That's branding peeps. Not advertising Ebank, it is advertising that Ebank belongs to Ricdic.) Ray hit the nail on the head. Ric has exceeded his abilities by aligning himself with others more competent than he. This is smart of course. The problem is that he thinks the ongoing successes is on account of him and not the others around him. Worry about the day when Ric goes and does something without someone watching over him. I have no confidence in eBank from the behaviors of the CEO, the chairman, and the board. Hexxx simply doesn't have the time to ensure compliance, most of the other board members have no way of insisting on compliance, and Ric has already demonstrated (to the cost of two directors now) that he will do whatever he thinks regardless of what others say. Point in fact: Ric said as loan officer he could, and would, write himself a loan as he knew he was good for it. These boards lit up like a bonfire from the such ego and hubris. So did we the board. So instead of giving himself a 100 billion isk loan without permission... he went and give himself a 175 billion isk loan without permission. That's just a breach of faith, trust, and ethics. Virtual boardroom or real life it's wrong. As I was resigning in disgust the board then went about retroactively approving that loan and then started debating about letting Ric be able to spend, at his discretion, 33% of the banks total deposits. I have to tell you, with all of my integrity, that eBank is doomed to fail because there is no oversight over the person spending the money and I honestly believe that until eBank removes Ric's mouth of the isk tit... there will never be any effective oversight. In the words of one director, "Ric has often run eBank as his own personal fiefdom. We don't need someone going out and telling the public this truth." [paraphrase] Ironic that when Ricdic told me to keep in my place he reminded me what my place was. It was to resign and inform the public that the product they've bought is no longer true. For the last time the 175 billion is an equity stake, not a loan. It is not recognized as a loan, but as money appropriated towards EBANK owned assets which are being leveraged to produce revenue (which they are). The details of these appropriations and the revenue each would produce was well documented within the Board forums. Nothing was hidden, and due to the nature of these assets I can understand why Ricdic was pressed for time in aquiring them. Just to wrap this up and give people a very rare peek into how we do business, that 100% controlling equity stake is OWNED by EBANK and is not in anyway a debt. That equity is being leveraged and handeled by both PP and Ricdic and the holding Corp under which they operate files a P&L each month with me. Director \| www.eve-bank.net
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:47:00 - [84] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Hexxx That pretty much nails it. And at this point, I am calling you a liar sir. Then I would have to call you a liar. And now people can debate over which one of us has the most integrity. Does that help anyone? Really? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here Shar...I know you've got a grudge against Ricdic and I know you guys tend to clash but this is ridiculous. Director \| www.eve-bank.net
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:51:00 - [85] Originally by: HawkBlade Point in fact: Ric said as loan officer he could, and would, write himself a loan as he knew he was good for it. These boards lit up like a bonfire from the such ego and hubris. So did we the board. So instead of giving himself a 100 billion isk loan without permission... he went and give himself a 175 billion isk loan without permission. Heh, being in charge of loans approvals have some advantages it seems. I wonder what kind of project requires such amount of ISK.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.07.15 19:56:00 - [86] Originally by: Xelios Xarxes I've seen this coming for a while, and Ricdic is the sole reason I wouldn't trust my ISK with Ebank. When people who're that arrogant have had control over large amounts of money in the past, we all know what happened in the end. I support your decision of resigning, especially after seeing the other members of EBank basically saying "cya" instead of daring to go against King Ricdic. I wish you the best and congratulate you on being the only one who isn't a sheep. Everyone here has a lot of respect for you. EBank is on its way to becoming a totalitarian monarchy & Ricdic will have the last laugh. << Saved for an "I told you so." to come at a later date. While it is true that Ricdic is a very dedicated player I don't think so much decisional power should be concentrated in his hands. And the archives of these forums know I'm right. Motherships
HawkBlade Minmatar Starlancers	Posted - 2008.07.15 20:01:00 - [87] Originally by: Hexxx For the last time the 175 billion is an equity stake, not a loan. It is not recognized as a loan, but as money appropriated towards EBANK owned assets which are being leveraged to produce revenue (which they are). The details of these appropriations and the revenue each would produce was well documented within the Board forums. Nothing was hidden, and due to the nature of these assets I can understand why Ricdic was pressed for time in aquiring them. This is a carefully orchestrated lie. Documentation did not come forth until after I outed the excesses that Ricdic had impetuously committed. Remember, I did back up a copy of the forums. Be very careful how much of a lie you wish to spin.
Proton Power Amarr Power Corrupts Tech Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.07.15 20:05:00 - [88] Originally by: Robacz Originally by: HawkBlade Point in fact: Ric said as loan officer he could, and would, write himself a loan as he knew he was good for it. These boards lit up like a bonfire from the such ego and hubris. So did we the board. So instead of giving himself a 100 billion isk loan without permission... he went and give himself a 175 billion isk loan without permission. Heh, being in charge of loans approvals have some advantages it seems. I wonder what kind of project requires such amount of ISK. To answer this, its a fairly large project that I am helping with. It has never been a secret, and it did not start with 175bil, it started with 30bil approved by the board before I even joined, then grew, and each time it grew posts were made and NOBODY argued against it. Weather people ignored the posts, didnt read them through I don't know. Originally by: Martosh Toma Soory but the news that PP is joining you does not make me that happy. I do not question his Integrety but I am not too happy with the results of his latest public investment see http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=739299&page=1 noted the promise for 3.5%, the isk was to be sent in april, the first divident was in june (over the month may) Total dividents over the juration of the investment was about 3%, to be fair it is still a profit but it is far short of the promised 3.5% per month. I took the liberty of underlining the importand bit in the quote Quote: 3. The minimum Dividends will be 3.5%. If I don't hit this amount I will take my isk and make it this amount. The only exception to this is the June 1st Dividend. Based on what I am doing, I am not sure how that dividend is going to turn out. I have Decided to withdraw almost all my isk from EBank at this time. Not because I think I will be scammed, nor do I fear getting stiffed on the agreed intrest payment. But I am not happy with the things as they are being portrayed at this time. I am using both options availeble to show my displeasure, posting and withdrawal. Your right I closed my IPO before I was suppose to and didnt uphold to what I wanted to do. The fact remains I was unable to meet those standards. I talked to 3 people that held the most shares, and verified what I knew was to come. I could either pay almost nothing in dividends and hate the game, or close the IPO and be done with it. I lost 12bil isk to close out the IPO fast as I did, so that each share holder could get thier isk back fast as possible, most of the share holders are happy I did it so quickly. When I closed my IPO I had zero intention of Joining Ebank, I didnt even have an account at the time, nor was I invited to do so. I think I joined Ebank what? 4 weeks ago right before i went to sea for 3 weeks if not mistaking. ----------------------------------------------- http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=439797Cli
Breck Maladar	Posted - 2008.07.15 20:16:00 - [89] Originally by: Proton Power Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Proton Power right before i went to sea for 3 weeks if not mistaking. Thats sorta the issue I'm having with the choice. You're a solid in my book PP, but if the project is involved at all. Doesn't the board sorta see this as folly? All I do is advise on how to run some things, give very specific details on how to do it, when to do it, and spread sheets to back up my data. I do this from at sea without signing on. I know, but Hexx is making it seem like you are going to be taking this active role in EBANK like Ricdic.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.07.15 20:20:00 - [90] I summed this all up very nicely in my first post way back as the 3rd post in this thread or whatever. I know Shar wished to ignore it as a flame or troll-bait or something, but knowing me as he does he should know it was not an attack on him. I merely stated that Shar has threatened to leave E-Bank before and yet he was still there and did not leave. Why? Because his public declaration of him leaving was a very effective way to force E-Bank to fix its problems at the time. Shar is very well respected around here... and if he feels things aren't up to his standards at E-Bank that is frankly very troubling. Granted Shar can often get over-emotional about things, but he is almost always on the right side of issues. Thus if he is so worried he has to leave E-Bank over it then it is going to scare a lot of investors. This means E-Bank can either fix the problems... or they can take the "attack the messenger" route. Which seems to be the current tact. At first when it seemed Shar was going to be a good boy and stay quiet they all had nice things to say. Once Ricdic posted and forced Shar to comment then suddenly Shar wasn't quite so loved. Frankly it scares me a lot about the internal practices of E-Bank if even half of what Shar says is true. But it doesn't bother me too much since I don't really have any money in E-Bank. I actually think it would teach a lot of people a lesson if something happened. Too many people consider E-Bank to be 100% secure, which it most definitely is not. It is simply more secure than most IPO's. My initial point still stands, that I expect that shar will rejoin E-Bank. Because if he doesn't then I will never know if I should believe if they truly fixed things. It seems everyone else is willing to say there was no problem... but the seed of doubt is there right now. The only person who has the credibility to say it is not there is Shar... at least imo. I tend to think Shar dislikes actually giving up on anything, he isn't the kind of person to not look back and want to get things right. Thus I tend to think he'll be back in E-Bank sooner or later. But if not I consider that to be a big blow to E-Bank and a major hassle off Shar's shoulder. I'm a bit surprised E-Bank hasn't worked harder to keep Shar frankly. I find it hard to believe they will say they'd rather not fix any internal issues and let shar go than to fix them and keep him. But hey, maybe Shar is a total PITA internally and we don't realize how hard he is to deal with... but they all did sing his praises initially. Were they lying about that?

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