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Ogre ll or Praetor ll heavy drones verse Blood Raiders?

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Killaria Semantia Caldari The Exquisite Continuum	Posted - 2008.07.17 03:17:00 - [1] Edited by: Killaria Semantia on 17/07/2008 03:19:35 Is it better to use Ogres for the extra damage modifier or are Praetors better against Blood Raiders due to the EM damage they do?
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.07.17 03:21:00 - [2] I would vote for the Praetors because of the EM damage AND the 35% faster speed.
d3vo The Space BorderLine Diabolic Paradox	Posted - 2008.07.17 03:23:00 - [3] I often forget to change my drones according to the faction of my missions. But if I had a change of drones, I would change them. __________ \(^.^)/
NoNah	Posted - 2008.07.17 03:36:00 - [4] There's never ever, a reason to use Praetors over any other drone type for PvE. There's never ever, a reason to use Infiltrators over any other drone type for PvE. There's never ever, a reason to use Acolytes over any other drone type for PvE. Reservation: Reasons may not include Price, esthetics and Player-defense Parrots, commence! Postcount: 565194
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2008.07.17 03:39:00 - [5] due to the varying lvls of the resistances between BS rats i would say thermal drones still come out on top, esp if you dont have the EM drones trained, there's little point you might be talking a difference of seconds between them.
Killaria Semantia Caldari The Exquisite Continuum	Posted - 2008.07.17 03:48:00 - [6] So here we have 2 completely different opinions about which is better against Blood Raiders. Can anyone do the math to make an absolute fact, not just an opinion, about which is better against Blood Raiders? I'm not hatin on anyone. I'd just like to know definitively which is better against Blood Raiders.
Zo5o Gallente Longcat is Long	Posted - 2008.07.17 03:56:00 - [7] Flying a domi? The answer is a set of gardes and a set of curators.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.17 03:56:00 - [8] Originally by: NoNah There's never ever, a reason to use Praetors over any other drone type for PvE. There's never ever, a reason to use Infiltrators over any other drone type for PvE. There's never ever, a reason to use Acolytes over any other drone type for PvE. Reservation: Reasons may not include Price, esthetics and Player-defense Nah. Your amarr complex bosses have 70/85/85/90 resists, making it very favorable to choose EM over thermal. I think the "elite" cruisers and frigates also pan out this way, or at least for sansha. Not sure if it's enough to make the switch for your every day missioning or ratting, but it's something to consider. Along with tracking and speed increases.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.07.17 04:20:00 - [9] Edited by: Matalino on 17/07/2008 04:24:40 Originally by: Killaria Semantia Can anyone do the math to make an absolute fact, not just an opinion, about which is better against Blood Raiders? Based on 44%/54% EM/Thermal resistances for standard Raider battleships: Praetor II has 35% better speed Ogre II has 14% more damage You will need to decide, based on how you use your drones, if 14% more raw damage is better than 35% more speed to get to the target and back again. If you set your drones against large targets and don't switch targets often, then the raw damage is better. If your drones spend a significant amount of time traveling, then speed might be a better choice. Based on 72%/79% EM/Thermal resistances for elite Raider cruisers: Ogre II has 4% more damage The Praetor II retains its 35% speed advantage
Killaria Semantia Caldari The Exquisite Continuum	Posted - 2008.07.17 05:06:00 - [10] The extra speed is actually pretty damn nice for drones. So one gives up like a 35 percent speed advantage with the Praetors, just for 4 percent extra damage? Have I got that right. Could you confirm my last statement. Sorry my math skills are non existent. Seriously I'll give up 4 percent damage for 35 percent speed bonus.

Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.07.17 08:36:00 - [11] Speed is only a factor against smaller blood raider ships in my opinion. Ogre IIs, while being the slowest advanced heavy drones in the game still have a top speed of around 840 m/s, they can keep pace with a battleship or battlecruiser without problems. The Preator IIs are a lot faster and have much better tracking (0,504 before skills compared to the ogres' 0,36) so they'll have less trouble hitting faster smaller ships. This is mainly something to keep in mind if the ship you're flying doesn't have room for a pack smaller drones to take care of frigates and such.
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.07.17 11:04:00 - [12] Keep in mind that for missions a little more damage is more than the straight number because of the active tanks rats have. So if you're only doing twice the damage it can actively tank, for example, then 10% more damage would be roughly a 20% faster kill on a shield tanker. Remember that--as others have said--damage typed matched drones do better against tougher mobs so you probably don't have to worry about that boss being too hard for your praetors to kill. That said, speed and tracking are very valuable and are probably more valuable than is often represented. Do remember that faster drones have faster orbiting speeds as well so they need more tracking to hit. The exception is when the target is moving faster than their orbit speed and they're just kinda following, then the tracking is an advantage. The speed, to me, is an important consideration. Over the course of a mission think about how much time your drones spend traveling, it's considerable.
NoNah	Posted - 2008.07.17 11:40:00 - [13] Originally by: Killaria Semantia The extra speed is actually pretty damn nice for drones. So one gives up like a 35 percent speed advantage with the Praetors, just for 4 percent extra damage? Have I got that right. Could you confirm my last statement. Sorry my math skills are non existent. Seriously I'll give up 4 percent damage for 35 percent speed bonus. Thing is... The ships where the difference gets low - are the ones with tons of hitpoints. So the 4% only applies to elite ships, meaning they more frequently have active tanks meaning each single point of dps is worth more than the relative difference, like the poster above explained. As for ships that can't carry light drones I recommend you to go with 4 heavies 5 lights most of the time, simply because it takes 4 heavies half a century to tear down faster frigates, and your main offense(guns, missiles, whatever) will be crippled only on the small things. Tracking is very overrated for drones. The relation between orbit speed and tracking is identical between them, obviously it still matters from time to time, but they often compensate for their extra tracking through higher orbit velocity. Another thing to consider is the inexistant shields of amarr drones. If they do take aggro on a respawn, the NPCs often get a few shots off, on an amarr drone this means a few points of armor damage more often than not, while the ogres do have a slightly higer buffer. Shields regenerate - armor does not. A lost drone is often a loss of 20% damage. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 800678
NoNah	Posted - 2008.07.17 11:53:00 - [14] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: NoNah There's never ever, a reason to use Praetors over any other drone type for PvE. There's never ever, a reason to use Infiltrators over any other drone type for PvE. There's never ever, a reason to use Acolytes over any other drone type for PvE. Reservation: Reasons may not include Price, esthetics and Player-defense Nah. Your amarr complex bosses have 70/85/85/90 resists, making it very favorable to choose EM over thermal. I think the "elite" cruisers and frigates also pan out this way, or at least for sansha. Not sure if it's enough to make the switch for your every day missioning or ratting, but it's something to consider. Along with tracking and speed increases. What rat is this you speak of? I can't claim to have gone through all unique ships from cosmoses and complexes, but none of the normal mission or pve ships "pan out" that way. Most sansha follow a ratio 40/70/60/50. Of course with some deviation back and forth and rounding, meaning you can end up with a ship having 37/70/60/49(Sansha's Loyal Ravisher) or 47/77/67/58(Sansha's Dark Lord) but they all have that approximate ratios. There are some rare occasions that greatly void this such as the Sansha's Loyal Torturer which has 72/90/86/79(0.61 vs 0.8), but I've found them to be somewhat rare and no entity where they have a presence enough to change anything. This may very well be outdated and wrong howver so I would greatly appreciate more info. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 343532
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.17 14:43:00 - [15] I don't remember their names (They all include "overseer"), but they were 70% EM resistant, 85% kin and therm, 90% explosive. As far as the "elite" ships go, you'll come across a small damage increase using thermal, but you sacrifice enough tracking that it probably favors the EM drone in practice, plus the extra speed. For raw killing power, thermal seems to be best (non-complex), but EM drones can be more useful at times. Fake edit: Remembered one of their names, I think it was "Skomener" or something similar. May not be the exact rat I'm talking about, but you might be able to find it from there.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.07.17 15:45:00 - [16] Edited by: Matalino on 17/07/2008 15:46:24 Originally by: Meiyang Lee Speed is only a factor against smaller blood raider ships in my opinion. Ogre IIs, while being the slowest advanced heavy drones in the game still have a top speed of around 840 m/s, they can keep pace with a battleship or battlecruiser without problems. The advantage of speed is getting to the target, not keeping up with it. If your drones are going to spend 30 seconds flying to the next target, then spend another 30 seconds killing it, before repeating the cycle, then you might think about reducing that 30 second flight time by 35% instead of reducing the 30 second kill time by 14%. However, if your drones cover the distance to the target in 5 seconds, but spend 120 seconds shooting, then you might want to invest in the 14% damage bonus. That is why I said earlier that it depends on how you are using your drones.
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.07.17 15:54:00 - [17] Originally by: Gimpb The exception is when the target is moving faster than their orbit speed and they're just kinda following, then the tracking is an advantage. I think you've got it all backwards. When the drones are following directly behind a target, there's no transverse velocity and tracking is not being demonstrated at all.
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.07.17 16:25:00 - [18] All of the EM drones are complete ass... and barring an insane difference in resists on the order of 40-50% (if i remember, did the math a while ago)... ogre II's will always come out ahead on dps. it really is that simple. amarr drones at all levels. suck. end of thread.


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