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Best t1 Amarr BS for lvl 4 missions?

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Sir Bum	Posted - 2008.07.17 11:28:00 - [1] What do you think is the best amarr battleship for lvl 4 missions: abaddon, armageddon or apocalyps? and why? thanks!
NoNah	Posted - 2008.07.17 11:30:00 - [2] Apocalypse. 70km range, 700 dps(more as it gets closer), awesome tracking and enough tank? Yes plox. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 970291
Kano Sekor Amarr The Movement	Posted - 2008.07.17 11:35:00 - [3] Originally by: NoNah Apocalypse. 70km range, 700 dps(more as it gets closer), awesome tracking and enough tank? Yes plox. /Thread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Desu Sigs
Sir Bum	Posted - 2008.07.17 12:07:00 - [4] Originally by: NoNah Apocalypse. 70km range, 700 dps(more as it gets closer), awesome tracking and enough tank? Yes plox. I'm curious what you fitted your apoc with, if it has 700+ dps and is still a decent tanks/cap stable?
Falcon Troy Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.17 12:20:00 - [5] Edited by: Falcon Troy on 17/07/2008 12:20:54 I think this would work well...though I've never flown an Apoc. Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] 100MN Afterburner II Tracking Computer II [Speed] Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Internal Force Field Array I Adaptive Nano Plating II EM Hardener II Thermic Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II [Capacitor Control Circuit I] [Capacitor Control Circuit I] [Capacitor Control Circuit I] 5x Hammerhead II 5x Hobgoblin II Runs forever without the AB on. Almost 700dps... _____________ Hai.
firefox666 Fusion Enterprises Ltd	Posted - 2008.07.17 12:29:00 - [6] Edited by: firefox666 on 17/07/2008 12:30:23 Edited by: firefox666 on 17/07/2008 12:29:32 at medium cap skills the apoc is the best choice, gives you more cap stability, with max out cap skills the abaddon becomes very nice with T2 pulse and scorch, around 50 km range, at bs 5 this ship can fit 3 heat sinks and still have more tank then the apoc. butt it hase a price, cap is hard to get stable. they way missions are now this doesnt matter that much as the surples on dps will kill rats very quick. blood raiders and sanscha are your friends to kill, serpentis are ok to kill, guristas and angel are harder to kill, butt with max(gunnery) skills they go down very quick, i love my gank abaddon/absolution in guristas space
Sir Bum	Posted - 2008.07.17 12:40:00 - [7] Edited by: Sir Bum on 17/07/2008 12:44:48 Originally by: Falcon Troy Edited by: Falcon Troy on 17/07/2008 12:20:54 I think this would work well...though I've never flown an Apoc. Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] 100MN Afterburner II Tracking Computer II [Speed] Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Internal Force Field Array I Adaptive Nano Plating II EM Hardener II Thermic Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II [Capacitor Control Circuit I] [Capacitor Control Circuit I] [Capacitor Control Circuit I] 5x Hammerhead II 5x Hobgoblin II Runs forever without the AB on. Almost 700dps... i tried that with shipfit, with everything on 5 it comes closer to 560 instead of your 700dps. Also, its resistance isnt really good, tanking might be hard, although with that dps you would have to tank less.
Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.07.17 12:46:00 - [8] all amarr t1 ships can be used for lvl4s apoc is good whit easy cap stability and sick range abaddon whit very good skills is better than apoc.. more dps whit good tank. geddon whit t2 pulse and sentry drones is nice :) ---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7 Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
Princess Kyky Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.07.17 12:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Sir Bum Edited by: Sir Bum on 17/07/2008 12:44:48 Originally by: Falcon Troy Edited by: Falcon Troy on 17/07/2008 12:20:54 I think this would work well...though I've never flown an Apoc. Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] Mega Pulse II [Scorch L] 100MN Afterburner II Tracking Computer II [Speed] Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Internal Force Field Array I Adaptive Nano Plating II EM Hardener II Thermic Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II [Capacitor Control Circuit I] [Capacitor Control Circuit I] [Capacitor Control Circuit I] 5x Hammerhead II 5x Hobgoblin II Runs forever without the AB on. Almost 700dps... i tried that with shipfit, with everything on 5 it comes closer to 560 instead of your 700dps. Also, its resistance isnt really good, tanking might be hard, although with that dps you would have to tank less. the whole idea is to kill stuff b4 it get's into range ------
Chillshock	Posted - 2008.07.17 13:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Princess Kyky the whole idea is to kill stuff b4 it get's into range Well... It's missions like "worlds collide" and "damsel" that make this a little hard, no? I am currently experimenting with the Abaddon (for the looks). Unfortunately it'll be about a Month and a Half until I have Tech II Pulse. So its Mega Beams for me for now. :)
Arana Tellen Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.07.17 13:51:00 - [11] Damsel in distress? Thats a joke of a mission. --------------------------------- Oh noes! Originally by: CCP Greyscale moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal
NoNah	Posted - 2008.07.17 13:58:00 - [12] Originally by: Chillshock Originally by: Princess Kyky the whole idea is to kill stuff b4 it get's into range Well... It's missions like "worlds collide" and "damsel" that make this a little hard, no? I am currently experimenting with the Abaddon (for the looks). Unfortunately it'll be about a Month and a Half until I have Tech II Pulse. So its Mega Beams for me for now. :) Somewhat like the ones mentioned, even if I prefer 3 heatsinks at all times. Both those missions are non-sansha/Blood and the amarr ships will simply be worse at it than other BS's. Amarr are skillintensive and a huge part of their potential is unlocked with tech 2 guns. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 712976
Falcon Troy Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.17 22:38:00 - [13] Originally by: Sir Bum i tried that with shipfit, with everything on 5 it comes closer to 560 instead of your 700dps. Also, its resistance isnt really good, tanking might be hard, although with that dps you would have to tank less. I just all 5'd it and got 678dps. Anyway, the resists, I assumed you are running Sansha/Blood missions hence the EM and Thermal hardeners. If you aren't then switch to the appropriate flavors. _____________ Hai.
Joe Starbreaker AnTi. Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.07.17 23:35:00 - [14] Apoc is great, really because of the range. Mine can't even use ammo with longer range (less damage) than Navy Standard, because the optimal range of that ammo is greater than my maximum targeting range (with Mega Beams). Strong tank, uber range, unbeatable capacitor, make it a great PVE ship. Armageddon is generally not recommended for PVE but it has one nice advantage: the T2 heavy drones enable it to do any of the four damage types, a rare ability for an Amarr ship.
Ripley Wisdomseeker	Posted - 2008.07.18 07:08:00 - [15] Go for an apoc, but check detailled mission desciptions here (http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports) before trying lvl 4s solo. Some missions have nasty scrambler frigs that keep you from running away when the shit comes down... with low drone skills you might loose your ship then.
Sir Bum	Posted - 2008.07.19 09:02:00 - [16] i have only 1,6M SP, but i already have drones 5, and after i get good implants and learning skills i'll start on more drone skills and BS skills. And it probably will be an apoc :p
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.07.19 09:07:00 - [17] Just remember, you'll need good cap skills to make an Amarr battleship work, because of the high power drain by the lasers combined with an active tank. (mainly Energy Management and Energy Systems Operation, atleast to 4, preferably to 5 for the best possible recharge and cap amount, Energy Grid Upgrades 4 allows for T2 Cap Rechargers and Cap Power Relays, which will come in handy)
Wideen Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.19 10:11:00 - [18] Edited by: Wideen on 19/07/2008 10:15:14 I push beyond 700 dps with t2 pulse and t2 hammerheads (my skills), although the dmg from guns is only 600 with multifrequency. Oh and this includes 3 HS and two reppers, which leaves me with 2 slots for hardeners... dunno how that is supposed to be viable Edit: just checked my geddon mission fit in eft, it has 200 more dps than my apoc setup (although most of that comes from t2 heavies), it can permarun everything, although only one repper but with great resists (appr. 83% on the mission specific resists). So basically, the only thing the apoc has going is that extra range.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.07.19 10:31:00 - [19] Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 19/07/2008 10:32:52 The Apocs ridiculously large capacitor also helps Wideen, but the Armageddon's RoF bonus is a nice plus since the Apoc does lack a damage bonus. Both are nice ships to be honest. The abaddon does great damage but is a monster to stabilise for missions without the cap use bonus.
Falcon Troy Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.19 10:32:00 - [20] Edited by: Falcon Troy on 19/07/2008 10:33:15 Originally by: Wideen Edited by: Wideen on 19/07/2008 10:15:14 I push beyond 700 dps with t2 pulse and t2 hammerheads (my skills), although the dmg from guns is only 600 with multifrequency. Oh and this includes 3 HS and two reppers, which leaves me with 2 slots for hardeners... dunno how that is supposed to be viable Edit: just checked my geddon mission fit in eft, it has 200 more dps than my apoc setup (although most of that comes from t2 heavies), it can permarun everything, although only one repper but with great resists (appr. 83% on the mission specific resists). So basically, the only thing the apoc has going is that extra range. Generally you'll want to use a mix of drones for missions to hit the fast frigates. Going with all Heavies on a Geddon would be a crappy idea. Also, it has a bad active tank if you ask me while the Apoc can push tank and gank for missions + excellent range and a good set of drones. The Apoc is pretty much superior in every way for missions compared to the other Amarr battleships. Geddon is just a baby Abaddon and both do oh so much better as DPS platforms fit for buffers in PVP. _____________ Hai.
Wideen Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.19 10:54:00 - [21] Originally by: Falcon Troy Edited by: Falcon Troy on 19/07/2008 10:33:15 Originally by: Wideen Edited by: Wideen on 19/07/2008 10:15:14 I push beyond 700 dps with t2 pulse and t2 hammerheads (my skills), although the dmg from guns is only 600 with multifrequency. Oh and this includes 3 HS and two reppers, which leaves me with 2 slots for hardeners... dunno how that is supposed to be viable Edit: just checked my geddon mission fit in eft, it has 200 more dps than my apoc setup (although most of that comes from t2 heavies), it can permarun everything, although only one repper but with great resists (appr. 83% on the mission specific resists). So basically, the only thing the apoc has going is that extra range. Generally you'll want to use a mix of drones for missions to hit the fast frigates. Going with all Heavies on a Geddon would be a crappy idea. Also, it has a bad active tank if you ask me while the Apoc can push tank and gank for missions + excellent range and a good set of drones. The Apoc is pretty much superior in every way for missions compared to the other Amarr battleships. Geddon is just a baby Abaddon and both do oh so much better as DPS platforms fit for buffers in PVP. I agree with the geddon and abaddon being awesome pvp platforms with buffers, and the apoc is prob. meant to act as a fleet/pve ship considering its bonuses and general stats. Thing is this, I've always been running my lvl 4s in a pimped out raven but that is getting so old it's not even funny, so I thought I'd make it a bit more fun by using an amarr ship, which is also a good choice seeing as I have t2 guns. However, my pve experience comes from shield tanking basically, so I'm not rly sure how much armor tank is needed when doing lvl 4s. One rep, great resists - two reps, mediocre resists? does it need to permarun? Hence, I'm having some difficulty to find a viable setup as when it comes to the Apoc. Could anyone spare their tanking setup on the Apoc? The highs are given (MPL II) and so are mids (CR II), and rigs (semiconductor/CCC).
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.07.19 11:04:00 - [22] Originally by: Wideen Could anyone spare their tanking setup on the Apoc? The highs are given (MPL II) and so are mids (CR II), and rigs (semiconductor/CCC). Now a Disclaimer before the fit, I don't fly this ship, all I did was EFT a tank to a similar level as the Dominix I've been using on L4s for the past 7 months or so. I have Amarr BS5, but I'm still training the T2 lasers before getting one. [Apocalypse, Allround Test Fit 2] Large Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Energized Thermic Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II (or Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II depending on how much tank you want) Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Capacitor Control Circuit I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Its cap stable with my own skills (Amarr BS 5, Rapid Fire 3, ESO 5, EM 5 and 3% Cap Recharge and Cap Capacity implants)
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum TRUST Coalition	Posted - 2008.07.19 11:08:00 - [23] Apoc is definitely better with lower skills, as the extra capacitor and cap use bonus really helps keep cap under control, plus the range bonus will often translate into a damage bonus with T1 guns, simply because you can use higher-damage crystals to acheive the same range. Once you get skills up, nothing beats the Abaddon. Mega Pulse with scorch have generally enough range to hit any mission ship, and the damage bonus + resistance bonus )you can tank as well with less hardeners, so an extra heat sink) mean its damage output is unrivalled. Cap stability is tricky, though CCC rigs + cap recharger IIs in the mids mean it can run forever with two heatsinks, and for at least 5 minutes with three (and three heatsinks + T2 guns mean there shouldn't be much left after 5 minutes). Of course, you can get a pair of 3% cap implants for the rewards from a couple of level 4 missions, which will push you even further towards perma-running (though it's not really required in a ship like this).
Tyrael Primus Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.07.19 11:10:00 - [24] Edited by: Tyrael Primus on 19/07/2008 11:11:01 I've done all the Caldari lvl 4 missions with the Armageddon with no problem - best tank in my opinion because of the 8 low slots and most efficient use of DPS for missions because of the 125m3 drone bay (medium and light drones only). I've gone with tachyons and megabeams, both work but I guess megabeams are better for missions. It is cap stable with one T2 LAR, 2-4 active or passive hardner mix, a heatsink II and tracking II if the mission doesnt require lots of resistances (like mercs or Seven missions). If you have perfect cap skills try a nanobot accelerator, auxiliary nanopump and an energy metastasis adjuster rig to have a solid tank and good tracking for those big guns. Mediums should be cap recharger II's. I think the Apocalypse is really for long range sniping in fleet warfare and the Abaddon...well it looks great and I guess its the best buffer tank. The Armageddon is all you need for lvl 4 missions and the best at it. Remember you don't get to choose your warp in point for these missions so I don't get the whole range thing with the Apoc, leave that for PvP.
Wideen Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.19 11:12:00 - [25] Edited by: Wideen on 19/07/2008 11:15:37 Edited by: Wideen on 19/07/2008 11:13:48 Originally by: Meiyang Lee Originally by: Wideen Could anyone spare their tanking setup on the Apoc? The highs are given (MPL II) and so are mids (CR II), and rigs (semiconductor/CCC). Now a Disclaimer before the fit, I don't fly this ship, all I did was EFT a tank to a similar level as the Dominix I've been using on L4s for the past 7 months or so. I have Amarr BS5, but I'm still training the T2 lasers before getting one. [Apocalypse, Allround Test Fit 2] Large Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Energized Thermic Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II (or Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II depending on how much tank you want) Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Mega Pulse Laser II Capacitor Control Circuit I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Auxiliary Nano Pump I Its cap stable with my own skills (Amarr BS 5, Rapid Fire 3, ESO 5, EM 5 and 3% Cap Recharge and Cap Capacity implants) Wouldn't this be better then? with better resists and cap stable without any implants: [Apocalypse, test misison] Large Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Heat Sink II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L Semiconductor Memory Cell I Semiconductor Memory Cell I Semiconductor Memory Cell I Hammerhead II x5 EDIT: sorry, didn't notice the auxiliary nano pumps EDIT 2: is a single LAR II with great resists enough for lvl 4?
Laerise Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.19 11:26:00 - [26] Edited by: Laerise on 19/07/2008 11:29:20 Megapulse lack range, I preferr megabeams, they track well enough and with AN MF they simply melt anything that gets that far. (Talking about an abaddon in this case) @ Wideen: Yes, it is. You have to consider that your high dps over range (yay, lasers) reduces the need to active tank as well :)
Wideen Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.19 11:35:00 - [27] Originally by: Laerise Edited by: Laerise on 19/07/2008 11:29:20 @ Wideen: Yes, it is. You have to consider that your high dps over range (yay, lasers) reduces the need to active tank as well :) Cheers
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum TRUST Coalition	Posted - 2008.07.19 11:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Wideen Wouldn't this be better then? ... Semiconductor Memory Cell I Semiconductor Memory Cell I Semiconductor Memory Cell I CCC rigs are both cheaper, and give a better boost to cap recharge rate (17.6% vs the 15% from SMCs) which is much more relevant for missions. In fact I'm not sure of many situations where it would be worth using SMCs (possibly on capitals, if it didn't have the unfortunate side effect of increasing your time between jumps) - and for sustainable PvE tanks they are definitely in every way inferior to CCCs. Also, that low-slow config is a bit screwy. With T2 mods, LAR + 4 hardeners (perhaps adding a Damage Control for tough missions) should be enough to tank any standard level 4 spawn. With the cap from 4 cap rechargers and 3 CCC rigs, you should be able to perma-run dual LARs too - and if you're going for two reps, it's likely that the second one is for emergency situations only and thus doesn't even need to permarun. So having a backup LAR instead of a backup MAR would give you a better burst tank when it turns out you cannot sustain the incoming fire on just your LAR, and need to pop the tacklers before warping out to repair. Though I would still rather go for LAR, 4 mission-specific active hardeners, 2 heatsinks assuming that the setup is for someone who has run level 4 missions before. Improving your tank gives you absolutely no benefits once you get beyond "sufficient", while improving damage will always result in faster mission runs and thus more ISK/hour. Since LAR + 4 hardeners is sufficient on a BS with no tanking bonus, I can't see why you'd want to fit anything else unless you were going for the bonus room of AE, for example. Also, with a single LAR you should be swimming in cap, so you can fit an afterburner in the mids too which will help you dictate range better (on ships that are just outside MF range and thus not worth wasting Scorch on) and get to gates faster (= more ISK/hour again). Check out EVE Survival's tanking guide, specifically section 3, if you want a good starting point for what mission specific hardeners you should fit in your 4 slots. I've found in practice that the 10% racial resistance bonus to explosive damage doesn't change any of the choices given there, so feel free to simply take them as written for decent performance.
Wideen Contraband Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.19 11:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Gartel Reiman CCC rigs are both cheaper, and give a better boost to cap recharge rate (17.6% vs the 15% from SMCs) which is much more relevant for missions. In fact I'm not sure of many situations where it would be worth using SMCs (possibly on capitals, if it didn't have the unfortunate side effect of increasing your time between jumps) - and for sustainable PvE tanks they are definitely in every way inferior to CCCs. Also, that low-slow config is a bit screwy. With T2 mods, LAR + 4 hardeners (perhaps adding a Damage Control for tough missions) should be enough to tank any standard level 4 spawn. With the cap from 4 cap rechargers and 3 CCC rigs, you should be able to perma-run dual LARs too - and if you're going for two reps, it's likely that the second one is for emergency situations only and thus doesn't even need to permarun. So having a backup LAR instead of a backup MAR would give you a better burst tank when it turns out you cannot sustain the incoming fire on just your LAR, and need to pop the tacklers before warping out to repair. Though I would still rather go for LAR, 4 mission-specific active hardeners, 2 heatsinks assuming that the setup is for someone who has run level 4 missions before. Improving your tank gives you absolutely no benefits once you get beyond "sufficient", while improving damage will always result in faster mission runs and thus more ISK/hour. Since LAR + 4 hardeners is sufficient on a BS with no tanking bonus, I can't see why you'd want to fit anything else unless you were going for the bonus room of AE, for example. Also, with a single LAR you should be swimming in cap, so you can fit an afterburner in the mids too which will help you dictate range better (on ships that are just outside MF range and thus not worth wasting Scorch on) and get to gates faster (= more ISK/hour again). Check out EVE Survival's tanking guide, specifically section 3, if you want a good starting point for what mission specific hardeners you should fit in your 4 slots. I've found in practice that the 10% racial resistance bonus to explosive damage doesn't change any of the choices given there, so feel free to simply take them as written for decent performance. Cheers mate. You were right about the CCC rigs being better, using just one CCC + 2 aux nano pumps, 4 hardeners I can permarun everything. Hopefully, that ought to be enough but I'm just gonna have to try it out. I much rather have the challange of staying alive in a mission than to zombie-run them in the raven. Besides, this will release lots of isk by selling the raven + still having more fun doing missions. Thanks guys for all the great input
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.07.19 11:47:00 - [30] Originally by: Wideen Wouldn't this be better then? with better resists and cap stable without any implants: EDIT 2: is a single LAR II with great resists enough for lvl 4? I have the implants anyway (which is why I included them), but the resist layout is indeed a bit better, as for a single LARII being enough, with enough resists it should be quite alright, the MARII in my fit isn't really needed very often, but helps when you accidentally grab a bit more aggro than you can handle with a single LARII.

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