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Cindy Goodwill
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Posted - 2004.05.26 00:05:00 -
[31]
There is absolutely no need for miner-slots. Miners themselves allready have the unique feature of requiring near-none powergrid and loads of cpu.
So my proposal is this:
Take the Badger 2, give him about 6 high slots and 6 turret slots, perhaps even a little reduced powergrid (from 80 to 60 so not too many guns are going to be mounted).
Leave shield/armor/struct the same, but reduce the medslots so it wont be a smartbombing EW platform. Plus perhaps add an extra lowslot
voila, you have a good industrial that is finally able to do something industrial :)
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Larno
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Posted - 2004.05.26 09:50:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Goldeneye Vinicus
Originally by: Sphalerite
Here's my base idea of what a mining ship should be. I would price this one at about 40M isk.
Badger Mark III
10% to mining laser output per Mining Industrial Skill Level
...
Max Locked Targets 2
...
Turret hardpoints 6
...
Eum, what good is 6 Turret HPs if you can only lock 2 targets at once? And yes, that number on a ships stats is THE max. It doesn't matter what skills you have. I have Targeting lvl2 so I COULD target 4 objects (2 base + 2 from skill). But in my Badger I i still can only target 2 roids...
Dude, what you do is target two asteroids, then mine the first asteroid with ALL your mining lasers at once. Then when you have mined that one out you start on the next roid. Whilst you are mining that one, target another one.
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Larno
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Posted - 2004.05.26 11:02:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Larno on 26/05/2004 12:21:32
When thinking about mining ships, a number of things must be considered:
The new class of ship must not be similar to existing ships (either BS or Indy).
Has small cargo space but more than BS. Poor upgradability and speed due to poor CPU and PG. BS is better because it withstands attack somewhat
The ship should not allow for AFK mining
Cargo is not large enough for AFK mining.
The ship should be very weak and need support relative to where you are mining. This prevents new players mining in unsafe space. (The more advanced as a player you are, the deeper into space you can go).
Strong BS/Cruiser support required for mining in unsafe space due to how fragile the ship is
People who are highly specialised in mining (for example someone who posted in this thread with Mining, Astrogeology, Drone Interfacing, Mining Drone Operations all at level 5) should also be incredibly good at mining with a mining class ship.
Can use all of these skills
Mining class ships should be very cheap and expendable, but also not have much cargo space as haulers are for that. Mining ability should be relative to skills and not just to whether you have the ship and protection (to prevent alts from mining crazy from day 1).
Cheaper to buy for rich players but mining in unsafe space would lose a fair amount of ships due to such weak ship
Ship should have *NO* combat capability whatsoever. Mining ships should be a team effort, where there is a substantial protection force so current BS's are not obsolete and are in fact needed more than before due to weaker miners.
Mining in 1.0/0.9 space the only option for solo players which again hurts AFK mining
Here is an example of what I think would fulfil those criteria:
Name: Mining Ship I
Race: Any/Undecided
Price: 10,000,000
Skill: 1
Speed: 300
Cargo: 2000m3
Drone Space: 1000m3 (enough for 10 Harvesters)
Structure: 1000
Armor: 250
Shield: 50
AR EM: 35
AR Thermal: 0
AR Kinetc: 45
AR Explosive: 0
High: 8
Med: 2
Low: 0
Turrets: 8
Missiles: 0
Power: 120 (150 Mod)
CPU: 80 (100 Mod)
Target Range: 50000
Max Targets: 2
Mass: 50,000,000
Turrets can only be used for mining lasers. Turrets are specially equipped so that mining lasers use no power or CPU. Drone bay can only house mining drones due to launch mechanism being incompatible with combat drones. ;)
+5% Mining Rate per skill level.
And all mining laser rates across the board would have to be lowered to keep the economy okay.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.05.26 13:37:00 -
[34]
er, 80 CPU is enough to run 1 Miner II.
Unless you have a 90% reduced CPU requirement for mining lasers bonus on that ship somewhere...
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Larno
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Posted - 2004.05.26 14:50:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Larno
.....Turrets can only be used for mining lasers. Turrets are specially equipped so that mining lasers use no power or CPU. Drone bay can only house mining drones due to launch mechanism being incompatible with combat drones. ;)
+5% Mining Rate per skill level.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.05.26 15:00:00 -
[36]
Nice invention, but a feature that doesn't exist. Unless the "reduced CPU need bonus" can be hax0red to work with a 100% reduction without exploding.
Far simpler to simply give the ship the CPU it needs to run the lasers.
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Garramon
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Posted - 2004.05.26 15:12:00 -
[37]
There is only one way to create this kind of ship without changing the dynamics of the game.
Here is a link:
Linkage
This is a ship in between cruiser and BS size, and is dedicated to mining. All this is done without adding turret slots or creating a weapons platform. Ill copy just the roleplayed part here, read the link for stats.
How To Roleplay it in:
Scientists have recently discovered a way to dramatically increase the effectiveness of mining lasers. By using a capicator discharge relay, the power of the capacitor is sent to the mining laser in short, powerful bursts. These burts cause the plasma created by the mining laser to become super heated for a short time, thus degrading the
surrounding surface of the asteroid into its minerals faster. To put in layman's terms, we can see the effect of this by comparing a wood drill to a hammer drill. When used on concrete type objects, a wood drill is slow and tedoius. A hammer drill applies this "short burst" theory to dramatically increase the effectiveness of the drill on these type of objects.
A new ship class has been designed around this capacitor discharge relay, the Industrial Miner. As the capacitor discharge relay can have a devastating effect on the ships capacitor amount, it is too dangerous to equip on any standard ship. Users of the Industrial Mining Ship should understand the purpose of its creation and the risks associated with operating this type of ship without an escort.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.05.26 16:51:00 -
[38]
That too is a chance to the engien mechanics. Slapping 8 turrets onto an indy variant however is a "simple" data file change - i.e. add a new ship stats to the database and work on some new art.
Adding in uber one-gun-mines-as-much-as-eight or this-gun-costs-zero-in-this-special-miner-only-slot on the other hand probably requires code development.
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2004.05.27 05:14:00 -
[39]
The only thing I dont like about the current system is that the caldari utterly suck at mining, and it doesnt sit well from an RP aspect that they wouldnt make something to keep their mining rates up to those of the amarr/gallente, especially in such a comercialist nation
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deathbyfire
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Posted - 2004.05.27 06:05:00 -
[40]
Edited by: deathbyfire on 27/05/2004 06:22:36
if ccp is planign on ever gettign ride of teh jet minning then a acual minnign ship would be needed other wise people would ***** and complain and we don't need anymore of that won that has a huge cargo bay adn can fit adn use miner 2s
other than that i think minning is fine how it is and we shouldn't worry about changing it there are a lot more important things to change right now
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The choice is yours to make and no one elses.
"Your current safe bounries were once unsafe frontiers"-unknown
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Hellek
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Posted - 2004.05.27 06:56:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Hellek on 27/05/2004 14:45:43
I think we need mining industrials which can fit 8 miner II (but of course should cost at least 30mill), it simply sucks that many people say Apoc can't be good at PvP cause its the best miner and can't be good everywhere. (remember: its still being called a Battleship).
Those people who say that, are (although I dislike it) somehow right as if Apoc would be good at PvP and mining, the other BS would be hardly used, so I really think that CCP should put in mining industrials.
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Larno
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Posted - 2004.05.28 00:03:00 -
[42]
Hmmm. Just come up with a simple thought:
Ship is almost exactly the same as Apoc except:
1. Very small PG (~50)
2. Little higher CPU (~600)
3. Much less low slots (maybe 1 or 2)
4. No Missile hardpoints
5. Less cap, since it's not needed with 50 PG.
6. Everything else the same (inc. Armour etc)
This would make for an extremely slow and heavy industrial ship, that can only mine. It would have to be very expensive (about 50mil ?) and all races could have it or very similar.
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Larno
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Posted - 2004.05.28 00:04:00 -
[43]
Originally by: deathbyfire
.....we shouldn't worry about changing it there are a lot more important things to change right now
Yes, I agree!
:)
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.05.28 07:52:00 -
[44]
And why would CCP want to get rid of jet mining?
insta BMs I can understand. Jet mining seems entirely legit.
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Larno
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Posted - 2004.05.28 10:38:00 -
[45]
Originally by: DeFood
And why would CCP want to get rid of jet mining?
insta BMs I can understand. Jet mining seems entirely legit.
Noone wants to get rid of jet mining, but people *do* want to get rid of mining in war-ships (very unrealistic and hurts the game mechanics).
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Spanker
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Posted - 2004.05.28 11:07:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Drusilla
I hear a lot of people saying they hate seeing folks mining in battleships.
Has CCP considered remaking industrials so that they have 8 high slots each, able to fit 8 mining lasers (but no weapons), a bit of drone space, a bit more shields, and letting them be the mining ships while also changing battleships so that their turret slots won't accept mining lasers?
The problem, according to those who complain about bship mining, and I'm sorry if this may already have been pointed out in this thread, is that if I come galloping in to a belt with my apoc with 8 miner II's that belt isn't going to last very long, and so there won't be anything left for the newbs. It has nothing to do with my ship being an apoc, it's the fact that I can mine so much faster than them - and the belt wouldn't last any longer if I instead used a new miner ship class that also could fit 8 miner II's. So what it comes down to is that people simply don't like seeing others rake in the ISK faster than them. Not that I'd care though, I don't mine for a living *cough* When I DO mine however, it feels good to sit in a 1.0 system in a group of 7-8 apocs just cleaning up 
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