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Dumb Warrior
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Posted - 2008.07.18 23:25:00 -
[1]
Why is it that all races have "gun boats"? why canĘt other races have missile boats?
The only missile boats out there are the raven, rattlesnake and the CNR, not mentioning the CSR (if only more available) but never can you get a missile boat that has 8 slots to fire 8 missiles.
Even in the younger ships missiles don't seem to be that big to the race Caldari or any other race as a matter of fact. why is it that the best missile boat is only one kind? One race? CanĘt we have more missile boats for the other races? The next closest ships are the typhoon and the scorpion and they donĘt get a bonusą.
These are the easiest BS class ships to get to that have 8 types.
BS gunboats = Abaddon , Apocalypse, Maelstrom, Hyperion, Rokh. BS missile boats = raven, CNR as the only choices? (Rattlesnake if u dual train)
CanĘt there be more missile boats to look at from other races. Ships that don't necessarily get missile bonuses but are at least 8 launcher points. That way we can use them for what we wish. just give us something that us missile lovers can start using, the golem is nice but too long to train for, and not really practical for new players to have allot of fun in. IĘm a missile fan and I just don't have that many toys to play with, where as guns you have other choices sure you have to cross train but they are sill guns where as missiles should be more universal anyways.....
I long to see a BS that has 8 missile slots other than the CSR. as I said before you don't even need to give it missile benefits but the option of use 8 missiles and to spam the sky with their little white lights is cool
But I know this is a dream and has been asked for quite a bit in the past. But it is still just an ideaą..
It just makes more sense to have more missile boats in the game so all races can use missiles and not be confined to fly the only race that has one.... im just saying it would be better. and worth training more skills to fly that other missile boat like you would to try out that other gun boat to see if it's better than your first.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.18 23:30:00 -
[2]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 18/07/2008 23:32:04 Edited by: AstroPhobic on 18/07/2008 23:30:50 Let me put it shortly.
With 6 launchers, the raven can easily hit 1200 DPS at 25-30km. 8 launchers would make this 1600 DPS. We call this overpowered.
Plus you get a damage bonus on top of your launchers, which makes it a lovely effective 7.5.
Edit: re-skimmed over OP. So instead of effectiveness you want aesthetics? 8 launchers wastes more missiles than an effective 8. Double edit: This post is pretty scattered. I'd always like to see another missile battleship (amarr or minnie), but this may lead to a balanced minmatar BS, so beware.
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Warrior Goddess
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Posted - 2008.07.18 23:51:00 -
[3]
I think the OP is trying to say...
"CCP should make more ships that are more missle based"
Just a thought to try and simplify this mess... and next time pick a different name, ppl might think we are related.
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"Gallente Drones let you get 0 dmg on KMs"
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.07.18 23:56:00 -
[4]
What dumb warrior goddess said.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.18 23:58:00 -
[5]
WARNING ! Absurd demand incoming !
Since we're talking absurdly overpowered, how about a Khanid Marauder, based on the Abaddon hull ? You know... 8 launchers, 5% armor resists and -5% cap recharge time on BS skill, +5% torpedo damage and +7.5% armor repper effectiveness on Marauder skill ?
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The mineral/moonstuff balance || *THE* nanofix
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Waxau
Unus - Vir Exercitus
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Posted - 2008.07.19 00:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Akita T WARNING ! Absurd demand incoming !
Since we're talking absurdly overpowered, how about a Khanid Marauder, based on the Abaddon hull ? You know... 8 launchers, 5% armor resists and -5% cap recharge time on BS skill, +5% torpedo damage and +7.5% armor repper effectiveness on Marauder skill ?
Dont forget that uber special weapon on the trailer, thats really uber and pewpew strong stuff leezor'd.
(Am i doing it right?)
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.07.19 00:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Akita T WARNING ! Absurd demand incoming !
Since we're talking absurdly overpowered, how about a Khanid Marauder, based on the Abaddon hull ? You know... 8 launchers, 5% armor resists and -5% cap recharge time on BS skill, +5% torpedo damage and +7.5% armor repper effectiveness on Marauder skill ?
Nerf!
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.19 00:06:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Akita T WARNING ! Absurd demand incoming !
Since we're talking absurdly overpowered, how about a Khanid Marauder, based on the Abaddon hull ? You know... 8 launchers, 5% armor resists and -5% cap recharge time on BS skill, +5% torpedo damage and +7.5% armor repper effectiveness on Marauder skill ?
Or switch the vargur to be phoon-layout-with-more-damage-and-marauder-tank. Please.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.07.19 00:27:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Akita T on 19/07/2008 00:34:11
Since the Khabaddon seems to be so popular, I'll do the others All ships have only 8 highslots, obviously
Khanid Abaddon (repost, slightly modified) 8 launchers, 5 guns 5% armor resists and -5% cap recharge time per Amarr BS level +5% torpedo damage and +7.5% armor repper effectiveness per Marauders level 0 dronebay
Ishukone Rokh 8 guns, 6 launchers 5% shield resist and +10% large hybrid optimal per Caldari BS level 5% large hybrid turret damage and +10% shield amount per Marauders level 0 dronebay
Roden Shipyards Hyperion 8 guns, 7 launchers 7.5% large hybrid tracking and 5% large hybrid damage per Gallente BS level 10% large hybrid falloff and +10% armor amount per Marauders level 25m dronebay
Core Complexion Maelstrom 6 guns, 6 launchers 7.5% launcher RoF and 7.5% large projectile RoF per Minmatar BS level 5% shield resists and +20% range of propulsion jamming modules per Marauder level 75m dronebay
P.S. I feel some of them are not overpowered enough to qualify for ridiculous requests, any suggestions ?
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The mineral/moonstuff balance || *THE* nanofix
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Borg9
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Posted - 2008.07.19 00:50:00 -
[10]
Originally by: AstroPhobic Edited by: AstroPhobic on 18/07/2008 23:32:04 Edited by: AstroPhobic on 18/07/2008 23:30:50 Let me put it shortly.
With 6 launchers, the raven can easily hit 1200 DPS at 25-30km. 8 launchers would make this 1600 DPS. We call this overpowered.
Plus you get a damage bonus on top of your launchers, which makes it a lovely effective 7.5.
Edit: re-skimmed over OP. So instead of effectiveness you want aesthetics? 8 launchers wastes more missiles than an effective 8. Double edit: This post is pretty scattered. I'd always like to see another missile battleship (amarr or minnie), but this may lead to a balanced minmatar BS, so beware.
let me put it even shortlier without all the edits.....give my frackin raven some moar lanchers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.19 01:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Borg9
Originally by: AstroPhobic Edited by: AstroPhobic on 18/07/2008 23:32:04 Edited by: AstroPhobic on 18/07/2008 23:30:50 Let me put it shortly.
With 6 launchers, the raven can easily hit 1200 DPS at 25-30km. 8 launchers would make this 1600 DPS. We call this overpowered.
Plus you get a damage bonus on top of your launchers, which makes it a lovely effective 7.5.
Edit: re-skimmed over OP. So instead of effectiveness you want aesthetics? 8 launchers wastes more missiles than an effective 8. Double edit: This post is pretty scattered. I'd always like to see another missile battleship (amarr or minnie), but this may lead to a balanced minmatar BS, so beware.
let me put it even shortlier without all the edits.....give my frackin raven some moar lanchers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
K smartass, you want to use more ammo and highslots to achieve the same DPS? Fine with me. More DPS? Not a chance.
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0rch1d
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Posted - 2008.07.19 03:25:00 -
[12]
Pretty simple . . .
Caldari theme: * missiles, shield-tanking
Gallente theme: * drones/some hybrids, armour-tanking
Minmatar theme: * artillery/autocannons, speed
Amarr theme: * lasers, heavy armour-tanking
You want an 8 launcher slot missile boat? I *think* the State Issue Raven (good luck finding one) has that, if I'm not mistaken.
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MirrorGod
Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.07.19 03:43:00 -
[13]
Raven does equivalent damage to a abaddon using 6 weapons where the abaddon needs eight.
Raven uses less ammo. Abaddon has a sexier high-rack to look at while going through more ammo/capacitor.'
You have the added bonus of two high-slots for offlined smartbombs...
What are you complaining about, tbh, I'd like my abaddon changed so the guns get a bigger bonus/remove two turret hardpoints so I can have offlined smartbombs.
Recruitment: [ANTI]
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.19 03:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: MirrorGod Raven does equivalent damage to a abaddon using 6 weapons where the abaddon needs eight.
Raven uses less ammo. Abaddon has a sexier high-rack to look at while going through more ammo/capacitor.'
You have the added bonus of two high-slots for offlined smartbombs...
What are you complaining about, tbh, I'd like my abaddon changed so the guns get a bigger bonus/remove two turret hardpoints so I can have offlined smartbombs.
But then you can't make a rainbow abaddon. This is like half the appeal of the ship.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.07.19 04:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: AstroPhobic Edited by: AstroPhobic on 18/07/2008 23:32:04 Edited by: AstroPhobic on 18/07/2008 23:30:50 Let me put it shortly.
With 6 launchers, the raven can easily hit 1200 DPS at 25-30km. 8 launchers would make this 1600 DPS. We call this overpowered.
Plus you get a damage bonus on top of your launchers, which makes it a lovely effective 7.5.
Edit: re-skimmed over OP. So instead of effectiveness you want aesthetics? 8 launchers wastes more missiles than an effective 8. Double edit: This post is pretty scattered. I'd always like to see another missile battleship (amarr or minnie), but this may lead to a balanced minmatar BS, so beware.
It isn't that I don't agree with you but to state it's because you "effectively have more launchers than 6" holds exactly zero water in my book. Those 8 slot gun boats? Many of them have either ROF or damage bonuses meaning they effectively have more than 8 guns.
Of course, 8 slot torp battleships would be unstoppable killing machines. If you want more slots than that on a battleship the only real recourse is to tailor the bonus and PG/CPU so that it only makes sense to use cruise missiles. Afterall, who can claim an 8 cruise missile launching missile boat is overpowered with a straight face
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Artemis Rose
Eleckrostatik
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Posted - 2008.07.19 04:54:00 -
[16]
You have 6 launchers so you have two spare high slots in addition to good DPS.
Don't fret. It could be worse. Its not like your tier 2 BS is a Tempest . __________________________________________________
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.19 05:02:00 -
[17]
Ok, let's take a trip back in the time machine:
The Raven used to be a terrible PvP ship. It was great for missions with long-range torps, but its PvP damage was severely lacking. So, how to fix it?
Giving the Raven more launcher slots would be the obvious option, but there was one problem: the Typhoon. Unfortunately, while the Raven had spare high slots, the Typhoon's 4/4 layout already put it at the cap of 8 slots. So CCP needed a different option.
The result: torps get a ROF boost, and the torp battleships do the same damage as the gunboats but with fewer slots used. Now that they're balanced that way, an 8-launcher battleship would be incredibly overpowered, doing way more damage than even a full-gank Megathron with much better range.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.07.19 05:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Ok, let's take a trip back in the time machine:
The Raven used to be a terrible PvP ship. It was great for missions with long-range torps, but its PvP damage was severely lacking. So, how to fix it?
Giving the Raven more launcher slots would be the obvious option, but there was one problem: the Typhoon. Unfortunately, while the Raven had spare high slots, the Typhoon's 4/4 layout already put it at the cap of 8 slots. So CCP needed a different option.
The result: torps get a ROF boost, and the torp battleships do the same damage as the gunboats but with fewer slots used. Now that they're balanced that way, an 8-launcher battleship would be incredibly overpowered, doing way more damage than even a full-gank Megathron with much better range.
There is no argument for the 8 slot torp slinging ship of doom that makes sense with the current game mechanics. A 6 slot Raven deals ALMOST as much damage as a gank fitted blaster ship afterall - 8 slots would make the Raven the undisputed master of close range battleship combat.
Still, balance aside the fact I can't sling 8 cruise missiles does annoy me but I somehow manage to survive.
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.19 10:41:00 -
[19]
The real problem is that after five+ years of play, we still have a very basic ship fitting interface. Mechwarrior used to be the same...you could fit any weapon in any slot. Then they figured they should have different SIZED slots...and then in the latest versions you had to have different sized AND differnt "spec'd" (energy, projectile, omni) slots.
If you could make the slots on EVE ships less generic and more specialised, you'd be able to create a Raven that COULD fire eight cruise missiles, but would be limited to only six (for example) torps. It might even be fun to be able to create a BS that had MORE than eight of a medium or small weapon...a real point defense ship.
But my feeling is, if they haven't looked at this by now, they're not going to, so don't hold your breath. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment. |
gavhriel
Amarr Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.07.19 11:39:00 -
[20]
tbh 8 guns/launchers is bullshit.
utility slots are beautifull, in pvp and pve alike.
think of heavy neuts/remote reppers/smatbombs for pvp, salvagers/tractors/smartbombs/cloaks for pve ...
tbh i would like more utility slots than gun slots on almost any existant ship ... that would be soooo sweet ...
i'm amarr but i envy the raven's versatility so much (i even envy the tempest against the whine, low tank - so not a tank and gank ship...but who cares ... medslots for the ew warfare wtf factor like tracking disruptors, high slots for neuts, can be nanoed and flown like a battlescruiser...even faster than a harby for example, i'm affraid by the time my alt gets to have all the skills i want the whiners would have won and the tempest would be just another silly battleship /rant over)
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Thercon Jair
Minmatar InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.07.19 11:50:00 -
[21]
Sure, if you want to do the same damage with 8 launchers instead of 6, so be it. Just don't forget that you lose out on 2 utility slots, need to buy more launchers and ammo.
Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
Diomidis
Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.19 12:40:00 -
[22]
For PvP, 8x Missile Launcher Hardpoints on a Raven would be a tad overpowered - even if PG/CPU was balances so that u would need 2x Fitting mods at least just to mount 8x Siege Launchers and a MWD...even then current bonuses would make a Raven vastly stronger than any "8-turret-gun-boat".
For PvE (and if your wallet is strong enough - pvp) train up for the god-beep-amed Golem ffs... Read the Bonuses: 4x Launchers with 100% dmg role bonus = 8x bonused launchers.
And it's not that expensive - since you are bringing up faction BSs in the comparison...if you can afford Rattlesnake, go for a Golem instead...
Also Missiles are a lot more SP friendly than Turrets. U can go straight for T2 Cruise launchers and Torps with way lower prerequisites, and way lower range and tracking limitations compared to turrets - that's why the "gimped" (according to your post) Raven gets so popular.
Should you wish for a 8x Launcher T1 Raven, with the modules nerfed so that neither Cruise, nor Torps out-perform vastly the Turret opposition (= fair adjustment), u will just get a ship with maybe more all-out dps, but surely less utility slots and a lot of fitting issues that would force you opting for less dmg mods...
Add the increased fitting costs, the increased running costs (+ 33% ammo consumption) and...I assure you that even less ppl will fly the Raven for PvP then... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.19 15:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Derek Sigres
It isn't that I don't agree with you but to state it's because you "effectively have more launchers than 6" holds exactly zero water in my book. Those 8 slot gun boats? Many of them have either ROF or damage bonuses meaning they effectively have more than 8 guns.
Yeah, I know, I thought about that after I posted but decided to leave it. When compared 1 v 1, torp launchers would be very overpowered. So they're limited on missile boats.
This also explains why cookie cutter phoon fits don't have any gyros.
PS. The new Raven > Phoon
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Mara Kell
Steel Beasts
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Posted - 2008.07.19 15:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: 0rch1d Pretty simple . . .
Amarr theme: * lasers, heavy armour-tanking
You might want to take another look at our Amarr Ships. 50% of our T2 ships are pure missile ships. The BS class is the only one that has no missile ship. Even the two cross faction ships are turret based. So its logical where a missile BS is missing. Well not with 8 launchers of course, that would be too much.
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Gimpb
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Posted - 2008.07.19 15:32:00 -
[25]
We're also missing an drone and missile BS. So just for luls,
Faction something-or-other Gallente BS skill: 10% drone damage per level Caldari BS skill: 5% cruise and siege ROF per level
8 highs 6 mids 6 lows 6 launchers 125 drone bandwidth 175 drone bay
Not a super strong tank but you can go shield or armor at preference.
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Atsuko Ratu
Caldari VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 17:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: MirrorGod Raven does equivalent damage to a abaddon using 6 weapons where the abaddon needs eight.
Raven uses less ammo.
It uses less ammo than the abaddon?
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Gantrithor105
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.07.19 18:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: 0rch1d Pretty simple . . .
Caldari theme: * missiles, hybrids, shield-tanking
Gallente theme: * drones/some hybrids, armour-tanking
Minmatar theme: * artillery/autocannons, speed, armor tanking, shield tanking, drones
Amarr theme: * lasers, heavy armour-tanking
Fixed
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Boz Well
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Posted - 2008.07.19 18:48:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Originally by: MirrorGod Raven does equivalent damage to a abaddon using 6 weapons where the abaddon needs eight.
Raven uses less ammo.
It uses less ammo than the abaddon?
Makes ya wonder, eh?
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.07.19 19:15:00 -
[29]
Not sure how unbalance it would be since two more torp launchers is alot of grid that gets rid of tanking ability. My two cents. Wouldn't mind the varied minmatar race to have an "ACTUAL" drone and missile boat.
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Forge Lag
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Posted - 2008.07.19 19:23:00 -
[30]
Abaddon with 8 missile hardpoints (and no other changes) would nicely fill the void of missing Khanid battleship.
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