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The current lag problem and CCP refusing to reimburse ships

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Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.07.20 11:05:00 - [31] Edited by: Tzar''rim on 20/07/2008 11:09:04 There's several reasons for it; - what you encounter as lag isn't neccesarily (or even mostly) a server problem, it's a network problem. The more people are in a system/fleet/grid the more info has to go back and forth between those people and the server. The more people join the bigger the datastream, it grows dramatically. Network latency isn't really a problem as long as it's just 1 or a few people but it really starts to add up when more people join in. CCP simply can not be held responsible for the fact that "the internet" lags/has latency. - reimbursements because of lag would open up a whole can of worms which CCP really isn't interested in. Already the stupid reimbursement petitions clog up their whole system, they should just do away with it completely.
Muddy Miner	Posted - 2008.07.20 11:37:00 - [32] Originally by: Psytropic Edited by: Psytropic on 19/07/2008 21:59:41 Ok CCP I'm so glad you worry about the m3 to mineral ratio of modules but won't fix this worsening lag problem. Your infrastructure from 2002 just isn't working anymore. Maybe it's time to take that average of $10US a month per person profit you have made over the years and invest in a completely new system. I am tired of the "we saw nothing abnormal in our logs" petition response I get. The server acting normal IS lag. Frozen screens, ship not responding to commands, it is completely inexcusable. For all the CCP fanboys that are sure to troll in here and stick their noses even farther up CCP's ****shoot, I run Unreal 3 at max settings at an average of 60 fps with an average ping of 120 with 32 players on a warfare map. So take your "your PC sucks" rant somewhere else. Well I feel better after my venting.. I might be new to the game but not to logic, check into space/time stretching and you might find your "lag" problem has more to do with the laws of the universe.
Lilly Gilbrath	Posted - 2008.07.20 11:49:00 - [33] Originally by: Psytropic Edited by: Psytropic on 19/07/2008 21:59:41 Ok CCP I'm so glad you worry about the m3 to mineral ratio of modules but won't fix this worsening lag problem. Your infrastructure from 2002 just isn't working anymore. Maybe it's time to take that average of $10US a month per person profit you have made over the years and invest in a completely new system. I am tired of the "we saw nothing abnormal in our logs" petition response I get. The server acting normal IS lag. Frozen screens, ship not responding to commands, it is completely inexcusable. For all the CCP fanboys that are sure to troll in here and stick their noses even farther up CCP's ****shoot, I run Unreal 3 at max settings at an average of 60 fps with an average ping of 120 with 32 players on a warfare map. So take your "your PC sucks" rant somewhere else. Well I feel better after my venting.. The OP is correct, I demand CCP imediatly shard the servers to instances with no more than 32 players per instance, remove all jump gates, players should be limited to one system per session, also to make it fair all players must fly ships with the same speed & tank with a limited selection of weapons.
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2008.07.20 11:54:00 - [34] dont worry I lost my ship inside a POS! CCP claims that POS wasnt active! and They had the password ??? which both they were wrong! oh and for laughs they said there was no POS there at first! Taken me 3 weeks to get my ship back! Trinity Corporate Services
ghosttr Amarr International House of PWNCakes Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.07.20 12:06:00 - [35] Originally by: northwesten dont worry I lost my ship inside a POS! CCP claims that POS wasnt active! and They had the password ??? which both they were wrong! oh and for laughs they said there was no POS there at first! Taken me 3 weeks to get my ship back! Heh actually had something similar before, was tryin to fit a hull repper on my ship inside of a pos. And my ship decides it jsut cant handle life anymore, and blows up. First GM i encountered told me that i had no ship in the first place My Blog
Yon89 Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.20 13:18:00 - [36] Edited by: Yon89 on 20/07/2008 13:22:07 Originally by: Psytropic Edited by: Psytropic on 19/07/2008 21:59:41 Ok CCP I'm so glad you worry about the m3 to mineral ratio of modules but won't fix this worsening lag problem. Your infrastructure from 2002 just isn't working anymore. Maybe it's time to take that average of $10US a month per person profit you have made over the years and invest in a completely new system. I am tired of the "we saw nothing abnormal in our logs" petition response I get. The server acting normal IS lag. Frozen screens, ship not responding to commands, it is completely inexcusable. For all the CCP fanboys that are sure to troll in here and stick their noses even farther up CCP's ****shoot, I run Unreal 3 at max settings at an average of 60 fps with an average ping of 120 with 32 players on a warfare map. So take your "your PC sucks" rant somewhere else. there is a difference between "Fps lag", "Network lag" and "Server Side Lag". Fps Lag: this is you fps, this can be greatly increased in eve by running a ram drive or Very fast Hdd. kk Network Lag: this is mostly caused when network bandwidth is not able to keep up to the rate of data being sent by the server, when the server does not receive a ACK packet (within a reasonable time) from your client (your eve-client) it is forced to sent the information to the client again or otherwise drop the packet. even during the biggest fleet fights i have only seen eve's network utilization peek at 25kb/s add Team speak bandwidth on top of about 6kb's and you are looking at ~31kb/s of bandwidth required. Network latency for the majority of players would be ~> 500ms (.5 of a second round trip) (down in Australia I get around 390-450) however latency has a negligible impact if any on network bandwidth. In fleet fights I have seen up 10 minute mod lag, .5 of a second will not matter dramatically. Server Lag: This is caused by the server having to queue the thousands of request from the client's as they fire their guns and server calculating inflicted damage ship velocity and trajectory, these requests need to be proceed in order of arrival so that the game will still operate in a Linea fashion. The problem with this is that a CPU can only process as much as is possible for it then starts to slow down this causes the interval between information being sent out to the client to be reduced, the server will still receive the requests E.G. clicking furiously on the warp button or on that DD button . Will still just be placed in queue for processing by the server. even with CCP working on multiprocessing the EVE server the operations still need to be processed in order or else the game threads may become out of sync this would and as they need to be able to reintegrate the information before it can be sent to the client this is a harder task than what people make it out to be. Thanks CCP and all the hard working devs for a awesome game, Yon89 ============= SIG SIG SIG
Bfoster Minmatar Rising Federation	Posted - 2008.07.20 14:42:00 - [37] 1.) Nobody will ever be happy! 2.) UT3 is gay.. 3.) Have a Nice Day
justsometrader	Posted - 2008.07.20 14:44:00 - [38] Originally by: Psytropic For all the CCP fanboys that are sure to troll in here and stick their noses even farther up CCP's ****shoot, I run Unreal 3 at max settings well if you run UT3 wih max settings you suck anyway....low graphic block model setting is the way of teh pr0
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.07.20 14:56:00 - [39] Originally by: Yon89 even with CCP working on multiprocessing the EVE server the operations still need to be processed in order or else the game threads may become out of sync this would and as they need to be able to reintegrate the information before it can be sent to the client this is a harder task than what people make it out to be. LOL @ the clueless fanboi noob trying to explain multiprocessing issues. For one thing, there would be no point in doing any parallel computation if things needed to be "processed in order" always. Workloads such as EVE are very well suited to parallel processing though because most of the stuff that needs to be done, can be done in parallel. "threads" also "become out of sync" only if you choose that concurrency model and do not take care to lock shared data. That's an unsuitable concurrency model for EVE anyway though, message passing / the actor model is the way to go (= no shared data). Plus, it's not a hard task at all, but you need to have foresight and not hindsight to get it done. Sure, it's hard to rewrite all that code but it's not our fault, it's CCP's for making bad decisions while writing it initially. Besides, I'm quite sure that simply adding more servers would help quite a bit. The load balancing that happends at DTs apparently cannot help with gangs of 100 people travelling and fighting and they often end up on busy nodes, which would not be the case as often if there was enough hardware to spread out nodes more (even when they're not busy). I.e. they have maybe 200-300 CPU cores total now(?), but they could have 1000 easily (in 64 servers). How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Cybele Lanier Amarr The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.07.20 15:29:00 - [40] Originally by: Psytropic Edited by: Psytropic on 19/07/2008 21:59:41 Ok CCP I'm so glad you worry about the m3 to mineral ratio of modules but won't fix this worsening lag problem. I always find it curious when someone implies that CCP choose to have lag in their game for some nefarious reason. --------------- ""Minimum collateral damage" and "Entire star system" do not belong in the same sentence."
Jenna Shame	Posted - 2008.07.20 16:32:00 - [41] Edited by: Jenna Shame on 20/07/2008 16:33:00 Originally by: WAuter Originally by: Psytropic Edited by: Psytropic on 19/07/2008 21:59:41 Ok CCP I'm so glad you worry about the m3 to mineral ratio of modules but won't fix this worsening lag problem. Your infrastructure from 2002 just isn't working anymore. Maybe it's time to take that average of $10US a month per person profit you have made over the years and invest in a completely new system. I am tired of the "we saw nothing abnormal in our logs" petition response I get. The server acting normal IS lag. Frozen screens, ship not responding to commands, it is completely inexcusable. For all the CCP fanboys that are sure to troll in here and stick their noses even farther up CCP's ****shoot, I run Unreal 3 at max settings at an average of 60 fps with an average ping of 120 with 32 players on a warfare map. So take your "your PC sucks" rant somewhere else. Well I feel better after my venting.. Since i upgraded from an AMD sempron to a dual core the problem has dissappeared..except in large engagements. I suggest you do the same.. This is complete bullocks. Machine lag is one thing, but machine lag has nothing to do with EvE's core problem, which is poor net code they keep throwing new hardware at hoping it fixes the problem (it hasn't in my 3 years). That is unless of course the issue is my duel core 2.4ghz with 4gig corsair ram and twin gt 8800 1 gig SLIed on an Asus extreme mother board as the bottle neck No the issue is CCP's code can't hack it, and yet they keep making 0.0 mechanic require and favor the blob. Left and right hands don't know what they are doing there.
Eternal Error Exitus Acta Probant	Posted - 2008.07.20 16:39:00 - [42] ITT people who don't know the difference between ping and fps, nor understand lag
Kuar Z'thain Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.20 16:46:00 - [43] Gee... thats funny. The little skirmish we had with IRON yesterday with 250+ in 2R-CRW was extremely playable. OP maybe has other issues?
Euriti Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.07.20 16:55:00 - [44] Originally by: Napro And yes, all the 60-man battles lagged to death. Pass the weed achura monkey.
Jenna Shame	Posted - 2008.07.20 16:57:00 - [45] Originally by: Kuar Z'thain Gee... thats funny. The little skirmish we had with IRON yesterday with 250+ in 2R-CRW was extremely playable. OP maybe has other issues? Either you are new to BoB or you are just being a fanboy. The fact that some battles are in fact playable shows that this is an issue CCP should be able to fix if they took time to find what the issue is. Most of the great war has been a slide show. C3 was pretty good back in the start of the BoB offensive after F-T, and there were some other good fights, but over all most of the players were looking at loading screens and 10 min mod activation.

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