| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Wil Smithx
   |
Posted - 2008.07.24 07:15:00 -
[1]
Don't know how many epopel have seen this but was on the escapist getting my weekly fix and saw an advert for eve, and I could help notice that was it an apoc, killed a titan and the whole capital fleet (it was minmatar so it might have just been a passing space breeze :P that caused them to blow up and nothing to do with the amarr weapon) with it with a single shot...
I thinks to meself, I would like to buy this gun and go to jita...
|
Viqtoria
Caldari
Groping Hand Social Club
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 07:15:00 -
[2]
abaddon
|
ArmaggedonPSA
Minmatar
Royal Hiigaran Navy
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 07:54:00 -
[3]
I hate to drag up a (probably, I dont really browse forums) old topic, but I mean....really, what was CCP thinking?
Don't get me wrong, visually it was very cool to watch, and hopefully that scene will attract all forms of new players that by the time they see how rediculous the scenerio actually is, the overlords in iceland will aleady own their souls, and it will be too late.
But heaven forbid that actual EVE players watch the video, where we showcase a feature that not only is not in the game, will never be in the game, and has about as much to do with the game as the dark side of the moon has to do with my ass. I found it (sort of) insulting that CCP did something like that, I mean hell it was cool...but if youre going to advertise your product, it seems showing off something that is actually in the game would be a good place to start. 
|
Hyperforce99
Gallente
Infinite Covenant
Lords of the Damned
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 08:02:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: ArmaggedonPSA
I hate to drag up a (probably, I dont really browse forums) old topic, but I mean....really, what was CCP thinking?
Don't get me wrong, visually it was very cool to watch, and hopefully that scene will attract all forms of new players that by the time they see how rediculous the scenerio actually is, the overlords in iceland will aleady own their souls, and it will be too late.
But heaven forbid that actual EVE players watch the video, where we showcase a feature that not only is not in the game, will never be in the game, and has about as much to do with the game as the dark side of the moon has to do with my ass. I found it (sort of) insulting that CCP did something like that, I mean hell it was cool...but if youre going to advertise your product, it seems showing off something that is actually in the game would be a good place to start.
Its not in the game for the players but actually read the empyrean age book and watch the story as it unfolds in the game
---------------------------------------------
Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/ |
Lui Kai
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 08:09:00 -
[5]
I'm kinda with Arma on this one. One of the things that drew me into the game origionally was seeing a trailer that looked AMAZING, and being told that it was entirely made from game footage.
Amazing trailers with madeup, inapplicable stuff are a dime a dozen.
----------------
Ambulation Answers
|
justsometrader
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 08:12:00 -
[6]
how many trailers do you know that actually show of REAL ingame footage and not some prerendered sequences that are only made for showing off the bling bling ?
|
flashfreaking
LFC
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 08:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: justsometrader
how many trailers do you know that actually show of REAL ingame footage and not some prerendered sequences that are only made for showing off the bling bling ?
9
Disallowed sig graphic. Send an e-mail to [email protected] when it meets the forum signature guidelines. ~Saint |
justsometrader
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 08:21:00 -
[8]
Originally by: flashfreaking
Originally by: justsometrader
how many trailers do you know that actually show of REAL ingame footage and not some prerendered sequences that are only made for showing off the bling bling ?
9
I was not talking about EVE trailer, but game trailers in general, which have a tendency NOT to show ingame action, but prerendered movies. If I want to watch those, I throw in a Pixar movie....
|
Wil Smithx
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 08:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: ArmaggedonPSA
I hate to drag up a (probably, I dont really browse forums) old topic, but I mean....really, what was CCP thinking?
Don't get me wrong, visually it was very cool to watch, and hopefully that scene will attract all forms of new players that by the time they see how rediculous the scenerio actually is, the overlords in iceland will aleady own their souls, and it will be too late.
But heaven forbid that actual EVE players watch the video, where we showcase a feature that not only is not in the game, will never be in the game, and has about as much to do with the game as the dark side of the moon has to do with my ass. I found it (sort of) insulting that CCP did something like that, I mean hell it was cool...but if youre going to advertise your product, it seems showing off something that is actually in the game would be a good place to start.
Originally by: Lui Kai
I'm kinda with Arma on this one. One of the things that drew me into the game origionally was seeing a trailer that looked AMAZING, and being told that it was entirely made from game footage.
Amazing trailers with madeup, inapplicable stuff are a dime a dozen.
Originally by: justsometrader
Originally by: flashfreaking
Originally by: justsometrader
how many trailers do you know that actually show of REAL ingame footage and not some prerendered sequences that are only made for showing off the bling bling ?
9
I was not talking about EVE trailer, but game trailers in general, which have a tendency NOT to show ingame action, but prerendered movies. If I want to watch those, I throw in a Pixar movie....
Exactly damn it, what happened to all those awesome videos made from in game footage, that was what made eve special, its graphics and enviroment were epic enough to sell themselves!
Its just upsetting... a 100,000,000 isk ship destroying a 40,000,000,000 isk ship and its fleet alongside it in one shot. Hell that whole amarr fleet prob didnt cost as much as one of those dreads...
|
Eshud Uktar
Uktar Raiders
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 09:43:00 -
[10]
It is actually a weapon that will be implemented in the game soon(tm). It is CCP's final solution to blobs.
The module itself cannot be activated unless fired upon a fleet with 30+ pilots. The energy bolt will first destroy any capital sized vessels in alphabetic order, then move down to battleships and so on. The Bolt's energy is depleted once the blob fleet is down to 29 pilots.
-------------------------------------------
Easy Riders might think they're free but they still have to follow the f**king highway. |
GallenteCitizen20080615
Gallente
Federation War News
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 09:47:00 -
[11]
Edited by: GallenteCitizen20080615 on 24/07/2008 09:47:02
you will find that the trailer for the first time is not ingame footage
and that trailer and all the trailers are related to the going on of the empyrian age book
that how you find out how they got it , who flying it, and why there is a titan orbiting above amatar planetary systems
how concord was repeatably warn before being WTF****ganked
|
Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 09:51:00 -
[12]
read the book you'll find out its part of the storyline that happened and i expected that sort of thing done in game was nearly impossible with the current engine or neither that we got a nice preview of the dx 10 version o-0. but eveyrthing before the last 30 seconds was ingame at max settings, good luck running eve on that high of a setting though.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Firestar Drive Yards
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 11:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nova Fox
read the book you'll find out its part of the storyline that happened and i expected that sort of thing done in game was nearly impossible with the current engine or neither that we got a nice preview of the dx 10 version o-0. but eveyrthing before the last 30 seconds was ingame at max settings, good luck running eve on that high of a setting though.
I run EVE on maxed native settings with most other shiny options forced at driver level. No problem at all.
Loads of other people do too.
|
Mr Crepsley
Gallente
SkillzKillz
Diabolic Paradox
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 11:54:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Mr Crepsley on 24/07/2008 11:55:55
Read the novel and it answers what it does. pretty much its a terran weapon salvaged by the amarr. It makes the shields attack the armour or somehting like that so it will insta kill anything
----
|
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 12:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: ArmaggedonPSA
I hate to drag up a (probably, I dont really browse forums) old topic, but I mean....really, what was CCP thinking?
Don't get me wrong, visually it was very cool to watch, and hopefully that scene will attract all forms of new players that by the time they see how rediculous the scenerio actually is, the overlords in iceland will aleady own their souls, and it will be too late.
But heaven forbid that actual EVE players watch the video, where we showcase a feature that not only is not in the game, will never be in the game, and has about as much to do with the game as the dark side of the moon has to do with my ass. I found it (sort of) insulting that CCP did something like that, I mean hell it was cool...but if youre going to advertise your product, it seems showing off something that is actually in the game would be a good place to start.
Have you READ the book before posting that? If you had WARNING MINOR SPOILER: SPOILER BEGIN: Its a Terran weapon, from earth, that was salvaged in eve gate. Its unique and part of the background story SPOILER END. Same way Jovian ships are not available for you to play but they are part of the background story. Thsoe things only enrich the game
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
|
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 12:23:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Its just upsetting... a 100,000,000 isk ship destroying a 40,000,000,000 isk ship and its fleet alongside it in one shot. Hell that whole amarr fleet prob didnt cost as much as one of those dreads...
That single weapon would cost more than a fleet 10x the size of the one it killed if it actually existed 
...
|
Murk Loar
Caldari
The Ex-Patriots
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 12:25:00 -
[17]
You dont see many Mummaships ramming into stations either but that was still pretty awesome.
I think it pays to play with a little imagination now and then,just pretend there's over 9000 crewmembers manning the turrets and systems on your ship and if you get popped they all die.The local chat after Malkalen proved to me that a lot of players,mostly RP'rs of course,have a pretty wild imagination.Each to their own obviously.
If not just get Dire to start making trailers.Tortuga was all ingame bar sound effects and that was brilliant. |
Wil Smithx
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 13:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Eshud Uktar
It is actually a weapon that will be implemented in the game soon(tm). It is CCP's final solution to blobs.
The module itself cannot be activated unless fired upon a fleet with 30+ pilots. The energy bolt will first destroy any capital sized vessels in alphabetic order, then move down to battleships and so on. The Bolt's energy is depleted once the blob fleet is down to 29 pilots.
your voice is worthless....
Thats possibly the worst, not even a troll, just shit I have heard in a long time...
People would just move in 29 man fleets, not to mention what happens if theres a 100 man gang with only 29 members in a grid - still getting gang bonuses.
|
Wil Smithx
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 13:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Murk Loar
You dont see many Mummaships ramming into stations either but that was still pretty awesome.
I think it pays to play with a little imagination now and then,just pretend there's over 9000 crewmembers manning the turrets and systems on your ship and if you get popped they all die.The local chat after Malkalen proved to me that a lot of players,mostly RP'rs of course,have a pretty wild imagination.Each to their own obviously.
If not just get Dire to start making trailers.Tortuga was all ingame bar sound effects and that was brilliant.
To get new members all they need do is show a cloverfields style video of the min titan coming into grid from a distance and setting off a doomsday...
|
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 13:30:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hyperforce99
Originally by: ArmaggedonPSA
I hate to drag up a (probably, I dont really browse forums) old topic, but I mean....really, what was CCP thinking?
Don't get me wrong, visually it was very cool to watch, and hopefully that scene will attract all forms of new players that by the time they see how rediculous the scenerio actually is, the overlords in iceland will aleady own their souls, and it will be too late.
But heaven forbid that actual EVE players watch the video, where we showcase a feature that not only is not in the game, will never be in the game, and has about as much to do with the game as the dark side of the moon has to do with my ass. I found it (sort of) insulting that CCP did something like that, I mean hell it was cool...but if youre going to advertise your product, it seems showing off something that is actually in the game would be a good place to start.
Its not in the game for the players but actually read the empyrean age book and watch the story as it unfolds in the game
Did they want to promote a book about Eve or Eve-Online?
I agree with ArmaggedonPSA, that 'feature' had no affect to Eve, will have no affect and that is good so. And don't tell me that some imaginary fleet action during downtime affects Eve in any way. There was not a single player involved with all these downtime action.
I always said that the latest vid is really bad. You can't completely make up things and then show it to people and say 'this is eve'. That is a blunt lie 
The visual effect in that vid are nice, but is has nothing to do with actual gameplay.
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 15:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lui Kai
I'm kinda with Arma on this one. One of the things that drew me into the game origionally was seeing a trailer that looked AMAZING, and being told that it was entirely made from game footage.
Amazing trailers with madeup, inapplicable stuff are a dime a dozen.
but they allready have that vtrailer, it was for trinity. There is no reason with no new graphics yet to showcase them. instead they pulled a starwars and had a super weapon the playerbase can't use it's just part of the story.
I enjoyed it.
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 15:09:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nova Fox
read the book you'll find out its part of the storyline that happened and i expected that sort of thing done in game was nearly impossible with the current engine or neither that we got a nice preview of the dx 10 version o-0. but eveyrthing before the last 30 seconds was ingame at max settings, good luck running eve on that high of a setting though.
no quite it was renders in over 4000x4000 rez and on top of that has the uncompressed normal maps. sexy.
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 15:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Hyperforce99
Originally by: ArmaggedonPSA
I hate to drag up a (probably, I dont really browse forums) old topic, but I mean....really, what was CCP thinking?
Don't get me wrong, visually it was very cool to watch, and hopefully that scene will attract all forms of new players that by the time they see how rediculous the scenerio actually is, the overlords in iceland will aleady own their souls, and it will be too late.
But heaven forbid that actual EVE players watch the video, where we showcase a feature that not only is not in the game, will never be in the game, and has about as much to do with the game as the dark side of the moon has to do with my ass. I found it (sort of) insulting that CCP did something like that, I mean hell it was cool...but if youre going to advertise your product, it seems showing off something that is actually in the game would be a good place to start.
Its not in the game for the players but actually read the empyrean age book and watch the story as it unfolds in the game
Did they want to promote a book about Eve or Eve-Online?
I agree with ArmaggedonPSA, that 'feature' had no affect to Eve, will have no affect and that is good so. And don't tell me that some imaginary fleet action during downtime affects Eve in any way. There was not a single player involved with all these downtime action.
I always said that the latest vid is really bad. You can't completely make up things and then show it to people and say 'this is eve'. That is a blunt lie
The visual effect in that vid are nice, but is has nothing to do with actual gameplay.
so because the last 20 seconds aren't good the whole video is bad?
|
Aloriana Jacques
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 15:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lui Kai
I'm kinda with Arma on this one. One of the things that drew me into the game origionally was seeing a trailer that looked AMAZING, and being told that it was entirely made from game footage.
Amazing trailers with madeup, inapplicable stuff are a dime a dozen.
Actually, when you WATCH the Empyrean Age trailer, you'll notice that is does NOT have the usual "all scenes in this trailer were captured from actual gameplay" notice at the begining.
- - -
Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
|
vostok
Minmatar
Suns Of Korhal
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 15:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: MotherMoon
so because the last 20 seconds aren't good the whole video is bad?
Isnt the whole vid like 1 minute long anyways that makes it 1/3 shit...
Nice chicken with 1/3 shit added = mcdonalds = shit.
It thus stands to reason that the whole video was shit! |
Tzar'rim
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 15:22:00 -
[26]
non-game footage trailers are for people who are easily fooled by advertising. If there's a new game/MMO made and all you can watch is a rendered trailer you KNOW the game is either crap or won't be done for another 2 years.
CCP, please keep to ingame graphics movies, it's what makes you stand out. |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 15:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Hyperforce99
Originally by: ArmaggedonPSA
I hate to drag up a (probably, I dont really browse forums) old topic, but I mean....really, what was CCP thinking?
Don't get me wrong, visually it was very cool to watch, and hopefully that scene will attract all forms of new players that by the time they see how rediculous the scenerio actually is, the overlords in iceland will aleady own their souls, and it will be too late.
But heaven forbid that actual EVE players watch the video, where we showcase a feature that not only is not in the game, will never be in the game, and has about as much to do with the game as the dark side of the moon has to do with my ass. I found it (sort of) insulting that CCP did something like that, I mean hell it was cool...but if youre going to advertise your product, it seems showing off something that is actually in the game would be a good place to start.
Its not in the game for the players but actually read the empyrean age book and watch the story as it unfolds in the game
Did they want to promote a book about Eve or Eve-Online?
I agree with ArmaggedonPSA, that 'feature' had no affect to Eve, will have no affect and that is good so. And don't tell me that some imaginary fleet action during downtime affects Eve in any way. There was not a single player involved with all these downtime action.
I always said that the latest vid is really bad. You can't completely make up things and then show it to people and say 'this is eve'. That is a blunt lie
The visual effect in that vid are nice, but is has nothing to do with actual gameplay.
That book has a lot of effect on eve. Its how Sarum became emperor again. And its one of the reasons why we have FACTION WARFARE going on! Its called IMERSSIVE game background and its among the most important things for a long lived game. |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 15:24:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
non-game footage trailers are for people who are easily fooled by advertising. If there's a new game/MMO made and all you can watch is a rendered trailer you KNOW the game is either crap or won't be done for another 2 years.
CCP, please keep to ingame graphics movies, it's what makes you stand out.
Disagree this is a very limited narrow vision based on assumption that everyone thinks as you think. The movies are a col extra! I would even PAY 100$ for a 1 hour movie of that battle! In fact the ONLY thing that was worth in the WHOLE expansion was that movie and the book. |
Siberys
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 15:36:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Its just upsetting... a 100,000,000 isk ship destroying a 40,000,000,000 isk ship and its fleet alongside it in one shot. Hell that whole amarr fleet prob didnt cost as much as one of those dreads...
That single weapon would cost more than a fleet 10x the size of the one it killed if it actually existed
But the whole fleet would be killed along with the fleet that fired it.
|
Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Naval Protection Corp
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 16:06:00 -
[30]
Quote:
Its just upsetting... a 100,000,000 isk ship destroying a 40,000,000,000 isk ship and its fleet alongside it in one shot. Hell that whole amarr fleet prob didnt cost as much as one of those dreads...
You know, just one of those Impocs could officer-fit that entire fleet that got blown up. 
|
ArmaggedonPSA
Minmatar
Royal Hiigaran Navy
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 17:01:00 -
[31]
Look, lets get this straight...I never said I hated the video as a whole, and I said visually the ball of doom was cool-looking.
But CCP is advertising their game here, not some novel, and I dont care where the weapon came from, what rediculous backstory it has, or if its in 10 books, a comic strip and the back of a cereal box.
The weapon could have been the concentrated form of Jovian butteschs, and it wouldn't make it any less rediculous.
Sure, other MMOs use CGI vids all the time to show off their games, because they actually NEED it. In WOW trailers you see wizards n' crap throwing fireballs n what not...not toting heavy machine-guns because its in a novel about an ancient terran weapon of whatever-the-hell.
EVE has always made trailers with just ingame footage and some handy camera work. I show off eve trailers to all my friends and the coolest thing is I get to show them the "All In-Game Footage" line.
There needs to be a disclaimer at the end stating the last 20 seconds is crap.
Attach whatever novel or backstory you want onto it, its still bogus
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 17:24:00 -
[32]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 24/07/2008 17:25:04
wait wait for those of you asking for all in game footage forever, how would you have made the trailer with in-game graphics? I mean it would of loved really cheap if they just used some stock effect for the terran super weapon. or a crash you'd really rather see it get close, then see an eve explosion followed by the station?
why?
I'm sorry I don't get it, it's a movie it wasn't adversiting in-game graphics at the end or gameplay it was what happen in eve get over it.
in other words ccp IS adversiting the novel as the novel is the story in game right now and the in-game sotry is the game. Think of it as a new report.
maybe they shouyldn't of made it so shiny at the ende but even a dev said in the offical thread that that is what they want eve to look like in 1-2 years.
|
quickshot89
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 17:43:00 -
[33]
if people understand what the weapon is, they will relise why its only for an NPC, and why its only going to be seen once in a while
|
Eshud Uktar
Uktar Raiders
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 17:59:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Wil Smithx
Originally by: Eshud Uktar
It is actually a weapon that will be implemented in the game soon(tm). It is CCP's final solution to blobs.
The module itself cannot be activated unless fired upon a fleet with 30+ pilots. The energy bolt will first destroy any capital sized vessels in alphabetic order, then move down to battleships and so on. The Bolt's energy is depleted once the blob fleet is down to 29 pilots.
your voice is worthless....
Thats possibly the worst, not even a troll, just shit I have heard in a long time...
People would just move in 29 man fleets, not to mention what happens if theres a 100 man gang with only 29 members in a grid - still getting gang bonuses.
Well yes good sir. My voice is pretty worhtless. Although my intentions was not to troll, it is not in my nature. I just felt like adding a little joke in what i think is a rather pointless thread to start with.
What really is funny is that you tried to come up with a solution to counter my (what i thought was obvious ironic) "shit" 
But i'll roll with you:
- Read the book.
-Oh woe to us all, CCP didn't use in-game footage for the trailer.
and
- My neighbour said that Jesus doesn't love us anymore.
-------------------------------------------
Easy Riders might think they're free but they still have to follow the f**king highway. |
Wen Jaibao
Soul Ripper Consortium
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 19:22:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Wen Jaibao on 24/07/2008 19:23:28
Edited by: Wen Jaibao on 24/07/2008 19:22:24
Wow. God forbid one piece of prerendered footage was used. GOD FORBID, ITS SO ****ING SERIOUS!!!  /tard
If you had read the book you would have known what that prerendered sequence was about. Instead, forum warriors are manning the flamethrowers and whaaambulances, because CCP did something that didn't fit their arrogant ideas of what CCP should do when they make a trailer.
|
Faife
Minmatar
Kinda'Shujaa
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 19:26:00 -
[36]
WTS - Amarr Death cannon. 20b isk. it will look like a contract for a velator, i have no idea why, just some weird bug i guess.
but totally a death cannon. explodes all ships on grid and all sorts of cool stuff. um... yeah. that's it.
- -
|
Zinras
Caldari
Order of draugr
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 19:33:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Zinras on 24/07/2008 19:33:00
Originally by: ArmaggedonPSA
But CCP is advertising their game here, not some novel..
Actually, they are advertising the novel as well. By getting you to play the game and hopefully read the forums and topics like this, it'll be brought to your attention that there's a book out there explaining all of this.
And tbh, if you can't figure out you won't get a weapon that can take out an entire fleet in one shot (which you actually do with DD), I'm pretty sure you're not a person that's going to play EVE very long anyway.
Lastly, I don't think you should start cutting your wrists and cry tears of blood because CCP made a prerendered ad for once.. If you want ads that have nothing to do with the game, even the looks of it, go check the WoW ones.
You can be pretty sure the next one will feature ingame footage, as it will feature characters ambling around in the ambulatory goodness that's Ambulation
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
*moderated - mother abuse - Mitnal*
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
That si a fact comming out from my bran.
|
Nikita Alterana
Gallente
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2008.07.24 20:17:00 -
[38]
I don't know how many times its been said, but once again:
SHOOP THE WHOOP!
__________________________________________________
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |