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Nenyu
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Posted - 2008.07.25 02:17:00 -
[1]
So, i was looking through the contracts today and saw that virtually every single 'want to buy' contract was a scam. They all say "450 million" in the title, but then they are really only offering 425k (AND NO, I did not fall victim to a scam, nor have i ever). Many of the sell orders are scams too by trying to pass off a regular T1 as a faction ship etc. It is incredibly sad that half or more of all the contracts I saw were scams. There have to be some sa***uards that any respectable bank would put into place.
I just feel bad for the cold hearless malice that this would have to take to try to scam poor harmless noobs. In eve, we like our noobs, becuase without them, we are not. Please ccp, put some safguards into place to protect our noob base from all the terrible and souless scammers out there. Thanks
(and please dont flame, call me a fluffy stuffed bear, or ask if you can have my stuff or my character or anything that belongs to my person) Thanks!
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.25 02:18:00 -
[2]
Guide to not getting scammed on a contract:
Read the details.
Think.
Then click accept.
Don't just read the title and say "BUY BUY BUY!!!!!".
Always. ALWAYS. Read the fine print.
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Nenyu
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Posted - 2008.07.25 02:24:00 -
[3]
You seem not to have comprehended my point. This is typical of the non-thinking, e-peen loving, chest thumping eve forum poster. Let me explain in simple terms. The contract system is administered by a galactac bank that should have some standards for integrity and some protections for their clients. Any respectable bank that wished to continue functioning would have to insure the voracity of their clients. All I am asking for is that people who wish to use the contract system abide by some established guidlines. That is all.
And of course I would advocate checking everything closly, I always do. That, however doesnt change my premise.
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.25 02:33:00 -
[4]
I'm sure that, on a galactic scale, there is time to check every contract without error... 
Also, theres no chest beating here. Scamming is a part of EVE. Making money off of those less intelligent than you is part of EVE.
If you fall for one of these scams, theres no one to blame but yourself. If you sign a contract to sell a car for 350$ in person, and then whine that "This isn't fair!  "... there is no "Moron" clause to law. You sign a legally binding agreement. If you sign said agreement without actually reading it...
Well. You just agreed to something. Lets see what you've won! 
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Jimer Lins
Gallente
Pod Six Research
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Posted - 2008.07.25 02:43:00 -
[5]
As a feature, contracts are pretty much worthless except as private ones. The public contracts system is so abused that I won't even use it.
At some point it's not about protecting the "scamming is part of EVE" mindset- which I support- but about making the feature actually usable. Right now, it's just not.
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.25 03:05:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Jimer Lins
As a feature, contracts are pretty much worthless except as private ones. The public contracts system is so abused that I won't even use it.
At some point it's not about protecting the "scamming is part of EVE" mindset- which I support- but about making the feature actually usable. Right now, it's just not.
Only if you have some sort of problem with reading comprehension.
Contracts are more legit and verifiable than actively trading. What you see is what you get. If it says you get x ship for 250 million isk, there is no way for you to end up paying and not receiving the ship.
Now, if you don't pay attention and buy the wrong ship for too much isk... it's your own fault. The contract tells you exactly what you'll get, and exactly what you'll pay.
In other words, contracts are perfectly usable. Just, yknow, read the contracts and don't buy or sell based on the description.
Would you sign a piece of paper that said "Sports car 3500$!" without verifying what you're getting? Or would you sign it blindly and then cry when it was worn out and didn't run?
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Wen Jaibao
Soul Ripper Consortium
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Posted - 2008.07.25 03:16:00 -
[7]
Agreed, as it stands the contract system is pretty useless if you want to sell something to a sell contract, since 99% of them are scams. The only use I find for contracts is to buy faction stuff that does not appear on the market, even then its a waste of time since alot of people overprice their stuff.
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.25 03:18:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Wen Jaibao
Agreed, as it stands the contract system is pretty useless if you want to sell something to a sell contract, since 99% of them are scams. The only use I find for contracts is to buy faction stuff that does not appear on the market, even then its a waste of time since alot of people overprice their stuff.
There are also some great deals on contracts. I've bought half priced battleships before. There are also plenty of non scam "want to buy" contracts, just sort by price and go past all the cheap ones.
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Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
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Posted - 2008.07.25 03:32:00 -
[9]
The contracts even have this little "Minimum price" and "maximum price" features, where you can filter out ships and items that are priced too low or too high.
--
this is my sig. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.25 03:34:00 -
[10]
-
DesuSigs |
Nenyu
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Posted - 2008.07.25 03:46:00 -
[11]
Well, what can I say. When the majority of people want an evil, corrupt system they are welcome to themselves. Try to add a little integrity to eve and you are attacked. What does the bible say about a dog returning to its vomit? A valuable social and ethical question. Anyhow, I said my piece and will comment no further.
Oh, and be on watch. Anyone that defends corruption and scams as much as Aria is obviously a partaker of that system and is not to be trusted. I hope that no one buys from her in the future. Cheers.
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.25 03:53:00 -
[12]
Oh god, my unused alt backbone.
To be honest, I've never scammed anyone.
I'm just not a big fan of protecting morons. And if you're too lazy to read what you're buying, I have no sympathy for you.
I always thought most of those "scam" contracts went unfilled... waste of time really... unless there are that many lazy people out there...
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Sile Suirghiche
Minmatar
Gaidhlig Technology
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Posted - 2008.07.25 04:02:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nenyu
Well, what can I say. When the majority of people want an evil, corrupt system they are welcome to themselves. Try to add a little integrity to eve and you are attacked.
I think the problem is that you have misdiagnosed the issue. It is not that the current contract system is an invitation to scam, it is that we don't have the mechanisms available to do anything about it ourselves. In reality there would be competing "banks" running alternate contract systems. The ones offering security and integrity would charge a premium and many people would gladly pay it. Some people would probably continue to hunt bargains on the loose unsecured markets. Unfortunately we are now restricted to only using the single laissez faire contract system CCP has decided to provide.
All the chest thumping about caveat emptor misses the point. Integrity and honesty are deeply respected and sought after in Eve, its just that in this case CCP won't allow us the tools to provide it in anything like an efficient manner.
Don't believe me though, ask Chribba whether there's a demand for trustworthy brokers.
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.25 04:07:00 -
[14]
You defeated your own point.
Chribba is proof that integrity and honesty are possible in EVE. The mechanics are there. You can build a reputation of being legit, and use it to your advantage.
Now, if you choose to do business with someone you can't trust, you take the risk.
You're not asking for "Tools for legit trade". You're asking for the game to hold your hand and make sure you can't be scammed.
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Nenyu
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Posted - 2008.07.25 04:09:00 -
[15]
Thank you Sile, your post actually had merit. I think that that is an excellent Idea and felt that I had to post one more time to put that forward. Why not create another auction system that may cost a bit more but is secure? Surely this is simple for eve. While Caveat Emptor is always good business advice, it would be nice to have the OPTION for a fair trade.
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Sile Suirghiche
Minmatar
Gaidhlig Technology
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Posted - 2008.07.25 04:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Aria Seniste
You defeated your own point.
Chribba is proof that integrity and honesty are possible in EVE. The mechanics are there. You can build a reputation of being legit, and use it to your advantage.
Now, if you choose to do business with someone you can't trust, you take the risk.
You're not asking for "Tools for legit trade". You're asking for the game to hold your hand and make sure you can't be scammed.
Not even Chribba can implement a universe wide transaction and escrow system to handle everything everyone might wish to buy or sell. We simply don't have the in-game tools to handle it. (Imagine doing it via eve-mail...  )
And, no. I'm not asking for the game to hold anything for me. I am just asking that we get better tools to do it for ourselves. That's what a "sandbox" is all about, right?
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.25 04:19:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sile Suirghiche
Originally by: Aria Seniste
You defeated your own point.
Chribba is proof that integrity and honesty are possible in EVE. The mechanics are there. You can build a reputation of being legit, and use it to your advantage.
Now, if you choose to do business with someone you can't trust, you take the risk.
You're not asking for "Tools for legit trade". You're asking for the game to hold your hand and make sure you can't be scammed.
Not even Chribba can implement a universe wide transaction and escrow system to handle everything everyone might wish to buy or sell. We simply don't have the in-game tools to handle it. (Imagine doing it via eve-mail... )
And, no. I'm not asking for the game to hold anything for me. I am just asking that we get better tools to do it for ourselves. That's what a "sandbox" is all about, right?
What tools are you missing? You click accept and get your item, they get their isk. There is no middle man, no one who can run off with your items.
The only way to get scammed is to accept a contract for the wrong item. How do you protect against that? "Petition: I accidently paid 50% too much for a battleship on the market, it's an exploit to sell over Jita price."?
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Sile Suirghiche
Minmatar
Gaidhlig Technology
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Posted - 2008.07.25 04:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Aria Seniste
What tools are you missing?
The tools to set up an independent escrow system. And, while we're on the subject, the tools to to brand, to advertise, to shop "at a store" (ie. to view the market by corp or character) to have, you know, a real market.
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.25 04:29:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Aria Seniste on 25/07/2008 04:30:44
I support browsing the market by corp, most people wouldn't bother, methinks. Theres no real way to make a brand for yourself when the items you sell are perfectly identical: Now, if you can make an enhanced version of the Miner II, then the brands might matter.
Custom manufacturing (even small tweaks, a bit lower duration, a bit higher yield.. for guns a bit higher damage, or range, or tracking, etc.).
Without that, "brand" is meaningless. It's a bit much to impliment, but would be nice. 
Edit: Of course CCP doesn't support real world scamming of your subscription money. That's a criminal offense.
In game, criminal activity is encouraged. Using real life examples defeats the point.
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Zurrar
Gallente
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.07.25 04:31:00 -
[20]
i just ignore the scammers i see, right click->ignore works well... i just wish it wouldnt show how many im ignoring...
Originally by: Malcanis
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
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Sile Suirghiche
Minmatar
Gaidhlig Technology
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Posted - 2008.07.25 04:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Aria Seniste
In game, criminal activity is encouraged.
It should not be encouraged, it should be possible.
Honestly, I never understand why people are against expanding and enriching the possibilities.
Originally by: Aria Seniste
Using real life examples defeats the point.
Just saying that doesn't make it so.
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Aria Seniste
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Posted - 2008.07.25 04:47:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Sile Suirghiche
Originally by: Aria Seniste
In game, criminal activity is encouraged.
It should not be encouraged, it should be possible.
Honestly, I never understand why people are against expanding and enriching the possibilities.
Originally by: Aria Seniste
Using real life examples defeats the point.
Just saying that doesn't make it so.
I assume you think CCP is pro-pirate in reality? They do not morally oppose murdering innocent people to steal their belongings?
Or should that be removed because it's "wrong" outside of the game as well?
RL morality doesn't translate into a game. A perfectly moral person can play an immoral criminal in game, without becoming a "bad person" in reality.
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Sile Suirghiche
Minmatar
Gaidhlig Technology
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Posted - 2008.07.25 04:55:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Aria Seniste
I assume you think CCP is pro-pirate in reality? They do not morally oppose murdering innocent people to steal their belongings?
Or should that be removed because it's "wrong" outside of the game as well?
None of the above. You said criminal activity was "encouraged", I don't think any particular avenue or approach should be encouraged above any other.
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Billy Sastard
Amarr
Life. Universe. Everything.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 04:55:00 -
[24]
You are given all the 'protections' you need....
Simply read the details and do not accept scams!?
The contract system works fine, there are plenty of legitimate contracts that get created and filled every day, and it is only the people who are too lazy/impatient/stupid who get nabbed by the scammers. And to be brutally honest, imo they deserve it if they cannot take the time to read between the lines.
-=^=-
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Amanda Wilkins
Caldari
Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish
Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2008.07.25 07:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Nenyu
... This is typical of the non-thinking, e-peen loving, chest thumping eve forum poster. Let me explain in simple terms...
Originally by: Nenyu
Well, what can I say. When the majority of people want an evil, corrupt system they are welcome to themselves. Try to add a little integrity to eve and you are attacked. What does the bible say about a dog returning to its vomit? A valuable social and ethical question. Anyhow, I said my piece and will comment no further.
Oh, and be on watch. Anyone that defends corruption and scams as much as Aria is obviously a partaker of that system and is not to be trusted. I hope that no one buys from her in the future. Cheers.
Originally by: Nenyu
Thank you Sile, your post actually had merit. I think that that is an excellent Idea and felt that I had to post one more time to put that forward. Why not create another auction system that may cost a bit more but is secure? Surely this is simple for eve. While Caveat Emptor is always good business advice, it would be nice to have the OPTION for a fair trade.
To OP:
Eve is not a game for persons with reading disabilities or problems with numbers or English text.
That you would be so bold as to tell others to not post in a specific, to you undesirable manner, and yet have the gall to call others responding to your thread on a public forum names, accuse them of being scammers because they disagree with you and have a sacrimonious need to pad the shoulder of the one person who seem to share your point of view...
Stop poasting, you are failing at being good at it.
Amanda
Amanda Wilkins
CEO of Dromedary, Goat, Albatross and Fish
Protector of the Bunnies of Stain
... because we DGAF! |
Gonada
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.07.25 07:22:00 -
[26]
holy crap, CAREBEAR !!! go away!
seriously, how hard is it to READ?
um ya.
sorry, eve doesnt hold you hands. WoW does.
you have the wrong game, you can go now.
Please, jump into traffic
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.07.25 07:22:00 -
[27]
or just an option to filter out want to buy contracts
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Veldya
Caldari
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.07.25 07:31:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Veldya on 25/07/2008 07:32:53
I have never fallen for a scam but my problem is there are so many it is hard to find real auctions amid all the scams so I stop trying anymore. You just can't block everyone doing them as most are probably disposable characters.
There should be greater flexibility in the filtering options, if you wanted to sell a 500m isk item you should be able to just filter any contract under a certain level.
So if you had the option to filter out between a high and low, kinda like you can with the LP store then can easily filter out all scams. It is more about making it easier to find the contracts you are after, it just helps that a filtering option will make contract scammers obsolete.
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MirrorGod
Heretic Militia
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Posted - 2008.07.25 07:44:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
or just an option to filter out want to buy contracts
/thread
Recruitment: [ANTI]
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Riho
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.07.25 07:51:00 -
[30]
nothing is needed.... its a stupid filter... if you fall for it.. then you know what it means
----------------------------------
Fighting for Minmatar o7
Yes... this is my main.
Extreme Troll Slayer...
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