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BlackMail
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Posted - 2004.05.27 00:37:00 -
[1]
Now I mine in 0.0 right now and it doesn't really affect me that much but I am still angered by people who are continually telling people who complain about losing ore to thieves simply to "use secure cans."
At one point, when I did most of my mining in empire space, I was using secure cans, however, they got nerfed!!! Hardcore!!! Perhaps it has changed back to the way it was and I've just not had the opportunity to find out, but you could no longer anchor them within 5km from any other anchored object. This means that if you wanted to use only secures, and have enough giant secures (the only one's worth using if you're mining in anything better than a frigate so don't give me lip about mining battleships cause even cruisers basically need giants) to last more than 30 minutes you would have them so far apart that they had grown completely ridiculous to use for mining!
Perhaps ccp wanted to make it easier for the ore thieves. If so I would like a statement from them on this one. But otherwise they just completely made it irrelevant to use them for any sort of mining operations.
I think that ore thieving is a perfectly good profession to go into in eve if you want to be the complete scum of the earth but it's crazy to me to so completely nerf an already expensive way of combatting them.
Any comments are welcome.
/me grabs fire extinguisher 
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Serge Tahlon
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Posted - 2004.05.27 00:49:00 -
[2]
lets face it , secure cans are just a cheap way to extend your cargo hold.
seriously though. other than in 0.0 where a hauler load is acctually worth money, why bother with secure cans in empire. cant even anchor them in higher than 0.8 as if strip miners would use cans anyway.
~~ signatures ?! all they do is wasteing space... ~~ |
Mystikos
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Posted - 2004.05.27 01:59:00 -
[3]
Mining was originally designed where you had to mine into your hold, then when it got full, return to station.
It's supposed to promote teamwork, by offering an incentive to bring along a friend in an Indy to haul for you.
Think about this... if regular containers were protected from ore "thieves," how long would it be until every field in the game was mined dry, and they were all littered with full canisters?
The simple fact is, jetcan mining was not intended to be a valid tactic (much like instajumps). However, people have gotten so used to the ability that any attempt to reduce or eliminate this tactic is met with cries of "Nerf!"
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BlackMail
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Posted - 2004.05.27 02:10:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Mystikos
Mining was originally designed where you had to mine into your hold, then when it got full, return to station.
It's supposed to promote teamwork, by offering an incentive to bring along a friend in an Indy to haul for you.
Think about this... if regular containers were protected from ore "thieves," how long would it be until every field in the game was mined dry, and they were all littered with full canisters?
The simple fact is, jetcan mining was not intended to be a valid tactic (much like instajumps). However, people have gotten so used to the ability that any attempt to reduce or eliminate this tactic is met with cries of "Nerf!"
Well that would be great if I had said that jet cans should be completely secure, but I didn't!
My problem is with people simply saying "use secure cans" when people complain about ore thieves. It was already an expensive way to go, and logisitically speaking was quite a pain in the rear also. Then they nerfed secures and people still use that line, "use secures". Before I pretty much expected that sooner or later someone would come along and take my ore if I wasn't using secures. Now it's pretty much impossible to use them because of the space "needed" between them. I guess I didn't state my question well enough in my original post, and that question is "Why are you still saying that when it is practically impossible to use secure cans for mining in anything other than a frigate now that the distance rule for anchoring is in affect?"
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Torvus Jay
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Posted - 2004.05.27 02:42:00 -
[5]
If you are mining enough to need to mine into a can then you do not need to be in a high sec system. Move to a .7 anchor some cans and mine to your hearts content.
The 5 km thing is not a big deal. Just set your cans up correctly and you will not miss a beat.
______________
Aim careful, and look the devil in the eye. |
Righteous Fury
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Posted - 2004.05.27 02:55:00 -
[6]
The only real problem with secure cans is the small volume compared to jet cans. Even then, using one giant secure and a good hauling team will keep you secure.
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Righteous Fury
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Posted - 2004.05.27 02:55:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Righteous Fury on 27/05/2004 02:58:01
I'm just so popular I had to post twice.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.05.27 05:02:00 -
[8]
What exactly is the question?
Mining is supposed to be done this way;
Mine -> Cargo hold full -> Dock/empty -> repeat.
When you jetmine, you take the risk.
Dont expect everything to be super-easy high-reward ffs 
-
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Mystikos
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Posted - 2004.05.27 05:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Viceroy
What exactly is the question?
Mining is supposed to be done this way;
Mine -> Cargo hold full -> Dock/empty -> repeat.
When you jetmine, you take the risk.
Dont expect everything to be super-easy high-reward ffs
/emote applauds.
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Arnt
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Posted - 2004.05.27 08:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Viceroy
Mining is supposed to be done this way;
Mine -> Cargo hold full -> Dock/empty -> repeat.
You forgot : do this until trial expires, uninstall eve.
Ore thieves only harm newbies. A lot of them are on trial.
"it's like that and shut up" is what you are saying?
Then answer this : are people on trial supposed to sign up or not?
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.05.27 08:54:00 -
[11]
I don't get all this about not being able to anchor them close together being a problem; you only need one. Even an apocalypse with 10 harvesters can't fill a giant secure can in one go; and your mate with the indy can keep emptying it.
You don't have a mate with an indy? Then find one - this is a multi-player game, I seem to recall reading somewhere - or, just accept the fact that, since this IS a multi-player game, playing as a solo effort means you can't be as effective.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.05.27 08:54:00 -
[12]
I mined in to secure cans just a few weeks ago and it worked out fine. If I can do than surely everyone else can do it because I must be one of the worst miner in EVE.
__________
Capacitor research |
Charles Burger
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Posted - 2004.05.27 09:38:00 -
[13]
The term "ore thief" has always confused me - anyone who JETTISONS something is saying "I don't want this rubbish cluttering up my hold", so it is free for the taking. Anyone who advises n00bs otherwise is plain wrong and they are responsible for "scaring away" the n00bs at the end of their trial. Teach them to mine properly, or make them aware of the risks of this unsupported mining method.
I am not an "ore thief" but I have no sympathy for the victims of this - if you want the ore, don't JETTISON it! It's like throwing money into the dustbin then running after the dustbin truck accusing them of stealing your money!!!
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meowcat
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Posted - 2004.05.27 09:49:00 -
[14]
... i was just thinking to myself that there hasn't been a thread about jet-can mining for, oooh, at least 6 hours, and then *poof* one appears ...
~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~
yeah but no but yeah but no but |
Charles Burger
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Posted - 2004.05.27 10:27:00 -
[15]
The only thing worse than jetcan-mining is the evil macro-mining! DIE DIE DIE!!! (After I nick all your ore)
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Lord Armagon
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Posted - 2004.05.27 10:39:00 -
[16]
i have a feeling you are complaining becouse you think that a secure can should have unlimited cargo hold, and be possible to use from unlimited range. ??
This would meen you are asking or complaining becouse you think that mining is to hard work ?
You dont have to do it the slow way , you can do it the faster way by jetison but then there is a risk of ore teft. is this so bad ?
Mining is already to profitable and to litle risk as it is.
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.05.27 10:48:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Arnt
Originally by: Viceroy
Mining is supposed to be done this way;
Mine -> Cargo hold full -> Dock/empty -> repeat.
You forgot : do this until trial expires, uninstall eve.
Ore thieves only harm newbies. A lot of them are on trial.
"it's like that and shut up" is what you are saying?
Then answer this : are people on trial supposed to sign up or not?
When i wes newb i dont remeber i mined to can
i did it the dock unload mine dock unload style
and i bet many real newbs do it that way also
(and FFS - what u can still from newb? - isint Apoch strip miner beter targer ?)
-------------------------------------------
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Esab
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Posted - 2004.05.27 11:24:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Esab on 27/05/2004 11:25:37
Secure cans work.. We had a lot of problems with ore thieves (Which resulted in two of us losing our cruisers but thats another story). It just takes a little time to set up correctly thats all. Two of us will go out to the belt ..one in a cruiser or frigate and one in an indy with 3 cans. The Indy waits it out whilst the frigate/cruiser locates a good position for each can and sets up bookmarks for them. Once anchored and bookmarked you have several secures in a line that are ready for using.This way we can keep several guys mining all night with just one indy doing the hauling and not a chance of losing any to ore thieves.
WE STAND ALONE TOGETHERÖ |
Dark Messiah
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Posted - 2004.05.27 11:41:00 -
[19]
Just some how please please give us the right to blow the ******* up, i hate people taking my ore that has taken me time to collect.
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Burga Galti
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Posted - 2004.05.27 11:55:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Burga Galti on 27/05/2004 11:59:50
Edited by: Burga Galti on 27/05/2004 11:59:32
Edited by: Burga Galti on 27/05/2004 11:58:44
Originally by: BlackMail
Perhaps it has changed back to the way it was and I've just not had the opportunity to find out, but you could no longer anchor them within 5km from any other anchored object .... to last more than 30 minutes you would have them so far apart that they had grown completely ridiculous to use for mining!
FFS, do I have to draw you a diagram? Okay okay, i did already.
Secure Can Layout Guide for Noobs & Carebears
The brown thing in the middle is your roid, the blue boxes are your giant cans. When one can fills you fly on to the next one. Your always in range of your roid and to travel between them will take less than a minute.
Now please, stop moaning about ore thiefs!
edit: PS, bad day... have a god awful exam in 2 hours.
Tales from the EVE Cluster |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.05.27 11:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dark Messiah
Just some how please please give us the right to blow the *edited* up, i hate people taking my ore that has taken me time to collect.
If you value so highly this ore that has taken you time to collect ... WHY DID YOU THROW IT AWAY?
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Ryctor
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Posted - 2004.05.27 13:13:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Ore thieves only harm newbies. A lot of them are on trial
I think I can speak for myself, Vog, and Tenaj that we rarely take from the newer members of this game. I usually hit up those in cruisers or Apoc strip miners. So dont try and make me out into a monster
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hatchette
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Posted - 2004.05.27 13:33:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
If you value so highly this ore that has taken you time to collect ... WHY DID YOU THROW IT AWAY?
You don't throw it away... it's like sitting on bench in park.. and putting your precious new notebook next to you. Did you throw it away? No!
In RL.. if you lose your wallet and if someone finds and take it, he's a thief, unless he can prove that you threw it out on purpose, because you didn't need it anymore.
Anyway.. there are so many problems with mining into secure cans...
I hope devs enable Colossal Secure Containers ASAP.
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Charles Burger
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Posted - 2004.05.27 14:07:00 -
[24]
In RL if you throw a fiver out of your bedroom window and someone picks it up and walks off with it... what legal rights do you have to get it back? NONE! Even if you clam you were "making a big pile of money to collect later"...
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BlackMail
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Posted - 2004.05.27 14:44:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Viceroy
What exactly is the question?
Mining is supposed to be done this way;
Mine -> Cargo hold full -> Dock/empty -> repeat.
When you jetmine, you take the risk.
Dont expect everything to be super-easy high-reward ffs
What exactly is your's and other's malfunctions with this post????? 
I never said anything against ore thieves, besides the fact that I hate them, and think that they should be in game. I never said mining should be easy, ffs I mine in 0.0 definitely not easy. Nobody has answered my question yet,maybe I should edit my original post to make it clearer.
Before the nerfing of secure cans I fully believed that anyone *****ing about having ore taken from their can (notice I DIDN'T say stolen) should be told to "use secures". However after all of the nerfs to the secures, which make them logistically a non-entity when it comes to mining, especially for noobs (who btw can't normally afford secure's) how can the people who simply still say "use secures" continue saying that?????
And for the person who made a "diagram" of the placement.....ffs has anyone ever seen a belt where that would be possible and still use a scanner?
Repeat: I think ore thieves are a legitimate profession in eve, like pirates, even if they are scum!!!
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Charles Burger
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Posted - 2004.05.27 15:31:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Charles Burger on 27/05/2004 15:36:41
I guess can placement is just a talent that must be learned and practiced, just like any other "profession" in EVE. If others' methods don't work for you, then experiment and find your own.
But I do agree "use secures" is not a very good response... "Who told you to use jet cans? It is not a proper mining method, jettisoning stuff means that anyone can take it, using secure cans you can put passwords on but it can be awkward placing them in roid fields" would be a better response but too time-consuming for the average help-channel-helper who has seen the same question 500 times already...
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.05.27 16:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: hatchette
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
If you value so highly this ore that has taken you time to collect ... WHY DID YOU THROW IT AWAY?
You don't throw it away... it's like sitting on bench in park.. and putting your precious new notebook next to you. Did you throw it away? No!
Except that .. it's not like that. It's like putting waste disposal bin in the park alongside the bench and throwing your notebook into the waste bin. Did you throw it away? YES.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2004.05.27 17:15:00 -
[28]
Well I'm of the opinion stealing is stealing.
However I do not consider it griefing nor exploiting. Just a distasteful choice of profession. One that happens to include some rather pleasant, and some unpleasant, individuals.
Jetting ore into a can is not an exploit. CCP is of all things pragmatic. Clone jumping as a means of transportation was not by design. However it did not stop CCP from co-opting it into prime fiction (Research the story "One of a kind"). Pharmacy Keys pointed that out to me, thanks.
Nor is jetting a can full of ore. I'm primarily a miner in Eve and I've never had anyone steal ore from me. And if I see Vogon coming I might suggest to everyone to spread out jetting 1 unit of trit all over the place just for kicks. =)
But I will not join this band wagon of DEATH to ore thieves. Inconvenience maybe but only in fair regards to their choice of profession.
And that's that.
However the thread started made some valid points. Just a shame he asked them in the wrong place really. And I'm a prime example, occasionally, of the intolerance in these forums.
So let that be as much of an answer as you will get. One person plays the game, PLAYS, his way and others play their way. The conflict exists becuase people don't want to exercise their mind or efforts to either defeating the practice or annoying the practioner. They'd rather rant.
And maybe that is the only, no matter how weak, defense for the intolerance this issue raises.
Eve Guardian - Former Reporter
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Burga Galti
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Posted - 2004.05.27 17:19:00 -
[29]
Quote:
What exactly is your's and other's malfunctions with this post?????
The 'malfunction' we generally have is that this is an old topic that has been done to death, as you can seen from the many knee-jerk reactions.
Quote:
I never said anything against ore thieves, besides the fact that I hate them, and think that they should be in game. I never said mining should be easy, ffs I mine in 0.0 definitely not easy. Nobody has answered my question yet,maybe I should edit my original post to make it clearer.
I think you should because I don't see any question. Simply a statement that your hacked off, and you want a statement from CCP.
Quote:
Before the nerfing of secure cans I fully believed that anyone *****ing about having ore taken from their can (notice I DIDN'T say stolen) should be told to "use secures". However after all of the nerfs to the secures, which make them logistically a non-entity when it comes to mining, especially for noobs (who btw can't normally afford secure's) how can the people who simply still say "use secures" continue saying that?????
Yea, some noobs can have a problem affording them at first. Thats why they mine to their hold and go back to station until they can afford them, or they mine in an industrial. Neither of these is as affordable as using secures, and definetly not as much as using a jet can. And if the latter is too risky, and the other's too slow well... there is your possibility.
Quote:
And for the person who made a "diagram" of the placement.....ffs has anyone ever seen a belt where that would be possible and still use a scanner?
I'm quite proud of that actually, I knocked it up in about a minute. If your worried about being able to do that I could try make a 3-d version of it for you? Possibly use some in game screenies for the pics rather as blobs and squares.
And yea, I could do that in a lot of belts and still use a scanner. As far as I know the existance of secure cans does not affect the scanner what so ever. And if you mean clutter, it's 8 items. I've seen bigger rat spawns that that!
Quote:
Repeat: I think ore thieves are a legitimate profession in eve, like pirates, even if they are scum!!!
Those are your opinons, these are mine. Ore theft is viable, it is a part of the game. I, personally, count them as pirates not as a different class of player. If you want an inexpensive way of combating them, as opposed to the 'nerfed' expensive system of secure cans I suggest you mine in a badger. If you want to use the luxury of a cruiser of battleship to mine then you are either going to have to take a risk or pay for that luxury.
*whew* I should really lay off the petrol next time.
Tales from the EVE Cluster |
Turin
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Posted - 2004.05.27 17:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ryctor
Quote:
Ore thieves only harm newbies. A lot of them are on trial
I think I can speak for myself, Vog, and Tenaj that we rarely take from the newer members of this game. I usually hit up those in cruisers or Apoc strip miners. So dont try and make me out into a monster
Okay, your only a Scum inastead.
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Turin
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Posted - 2004.05.27 17:37:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: hatchette
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
If you value so highly this ore that has taken you time to collect ... WHY DID YOU THROW IT AWAY?
You don't throw it away... it's like sitting on bench in park.. and putting your precious new notebook next to you. Did you throw it away? No!
Except that .. it's not like that. It's like putting waste disposal bin in the park alongside the bench and throwing your notebook into the waste bin. Did you throw it away? YES.
I guess that is a matter of opinion. Personally, I think the above poster used a MUCH better annology than you did. Ore THIEVES suck. I wish there was some way to retaliate against them.
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Weirda
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Posted - 2004.05.27 18:48:00 -
[32]
Weirda have an idea that just extends existing game mechanics (and play style) with regard to this here:
Drone Concept
Would love to see thoughts on both side of the issue!
As for Weirda's opinion - it seem that when mining into a jet can - there is a known risk... the reward is MUCH greater when you do it, but so is the risk... Does Weirda like ore thiefs? Hell no - but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't have the choice to be that if they want!
--
Thread Killer
<END TRANSMISSION> |
Shap Sheegger
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Posted - 2004.05.27 19:25:00 -
[33]
Do you know a more everyday word for Jettison and Flotsam?
Its called DISCARD.The dictionary always wins.
For comical relief, i would love to hear someone try to argue that discarding something isn't the same as throwing it away.
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Arnt
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Posted - 2004.05.27 21:05:00 -
[34]
Let's say we have two guys who try to mine together, none of them being older than 4 days.
One has a mining ship (bantam, imicus...) the other has another kind of frigate, with a low cargo hold.
Obviously the one with the more cargo will make the trips. If they were both mining/docking, it would be the same as mining individually.
Let's say the mining ship guy has managed to fit some basic expanders, and comes with a medium secure container. He cannot anchor it in the 0.8+ system they are in (they are too new to go to lower security systems). So at least he may think he could just deploy it and use it during the one/two hours it will stay.
There comes a guy who takes the ore directly in the can or just takes the can itself (can this be done?).
Why? because the password on secure cans only works once the can has been succesfully anchored at least one time, as far as I know.
Seems to me the root of the problem is the inability to protect your can/it's cargo. Not really anchoring it.
Does a 4 days old player know he needs to move to 0.7- space, launch and anchor the can to have it's password protection active? My bet is "no".
IMO, password protection of the can/can's cargo need to be active whenever the can is anchored or not, without any previous operation required. Increasing unanchored secure cans 'staying power' to three hours would be helpfull too.
Permanent cans having the 5km restrictions and SL restrictions - I have no problem on this. But at least make it such that using them on a non-permanent way gives them the same functionnality (security) without as much troubles (requirements).
Don't you think this would still make perma "recruitment ads" cans impossible, and harm much less the newbies?
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KIAHicks
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Posted - 2004.05.27 21:13:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Arnt
You forgot : do this until trial expires, uninstall eve.
Ore thieves only harm newbies. A lot of them are on trial.
"it's like that and shut up" is what you are saying?
Then answer this : are people on trial supposed to sign up or not?
When I was a n00b I didn't even know you could jettison. I spent weeks going Mine, fill hold, dock, unload, repeat.
If I had known how to jettison and someone stole it, I wouldnt' have quit. I'd just never bother to jettison again.
Any new player that quits because someone steals ore, would soon quit over another minor issue later on.
Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
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KIAHicks
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Posted - 2004.05.27 21:16:00 -
[36]
Edited by: KIAHicks on 27/05/2004 21:20:40
Originally by: hatchette
You don't throw it away... it's like sitting on bench in park.. and putting your precious new notebook next to you. Did you throw it away? No!
In RL.. if you lose your wallet and if someone finds and take it, he's a thief, unless he can prove that you threw it out on purpose, because you didn't need it anymore.
Anyway.. there are so many problems with mining into secure cans...
I hope devs enable [url="http://www.eve-db.com/evedb/show_misc.php?typeID=11490"
Colossal Secure Containers[/url] ASAP.
I love flawed real life analogies... (heres my own :P) It would be more like you taking your really nice notebook and throwing it out of your car window while you eat your dinner in down town new york and expecting it still to be there when your done.
Whether its right or wrong that its gone is irrelevant. You advocated your control over the ore when you allowed it to leave your ship. Unless your in a low enough sector of space to keep control over it, then you'll just have to learn to live with it. Ore theft is not a crime in the eyes of the law.
Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
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KIAHicks
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Posted - 2004.05.27 21:18:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Arnt
IMO, password protection of the can/can's cargo need to be active whenever the can is anchored or not, without any previous operation required. Increasing unanchored secure cans 'staying power' to three hours would be helpfull too.
Yay and lets give those who wish to travel without risking losing any cargo a way to have 100% security.. Oh dear viceroy is going to kill me, not to worry I'll jettison my nice secure containers before I die. No need to spend time anchoring them, they'll be nicely passworded.
Not to mention this wouldn't stop ore theft, it would just create "container theft" if its not nailed down, someone will take it.
Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.05.27 21:25:00 -
[38]
Funny thing is, that even with criminal flagging enabled, you still have to fit guns to kill ore thieves.
Not many carebears will
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Falbala
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Posted - 2004.05.27 21:32:00 -
[39]
When you don't want to be stolen you mine with an indy next to you.
I use secure cans when I don't want to haul and mine at the same time. For example I mine a bit between two missions or a corp member mines and I come haul later, things like that. Or in systems < 0.5 but this is another topic.
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hatchette
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Posted - 2004.05.28 09:10:00 -
[40]
Originally by: KIAHicks
Edited by: KIAHicks on 27/05/2004 21:20:40
Originally by: hatchette
You don't throw it away... it's like sitting on bench in park.. and putting your precious new notebook next to you. Did you throw it away? No!
In RL.. if you lose your wallet and if someone finds and take it, he's a thief, unless he can prove that you threw it out on purpose, because you didn't need it anymore.
Anyway.. there are so many problems with mining into secure cans...
I hope devs enable [url="http://www.eve-db.com/evedb/show_misc.php?typeID=11490"
Colossal Secure Containers[/url] ASAP.
I love flawed real life analogies... (heres my own :P) It would be more like you taking your really nice notebook and throwing it out of your car window while you eat your dinner in down town new york and expecting it still to be there when your done.
Whether its right or wrong that its gone is irrelevant. You advocated your control over the ore when you allowed it to leave your ship. Unless your in a low enough sector of space to keep control over it, then you'll just have to learn to live with it. Ore theft is not a crime in the eyes of the law.
Well.. if you abandon your jettisoned can, your analogy is correct. But most ore thefts are done while you are mining into it and you have your can within 1500m... ore thief comes and picks up your ore from it and you can only watch how he's stealing.
Most problems have smaller corporations.. bigger corporations (like ours) are prepared to protect their ore even in secure space... So far we have wasted 2 kestrels on ore thiefs (namely Cursed Souls corp).. and it was a pleasure;)
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Haratu
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Posted - 2004.05.28 09:21:00 -
[41]
The truth is that those that complain about ore thieves are just annoying because most of them never even consider secure cans.
Those of us that do consider secure cans and use insecure ones dont get uptight about ore thieves. We just kill 'em or forget our losses.
I roleplay... there is this computer game called "Earth - The First Genesis" where i play a character in the early 21st century. |
Arnt
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Posted - 2004.05.28 11:44:00 -
[42]
The truth is that dozens of idiots abused the anchored containers to SPAM ADS at gates, stations, whatever.
CCP had to remove anchoring ability from 0.8+
Who is hurt by that? Only newbies... Other people assume the risk they take by jettisonning and you will not see them complaining about that. Well sometime they do but they shouldn't.
Remember that newbies who can't face the rat pops in 0.7- have no way to use secure containers.
All I see is just a bunch of selfish guys who don't give a sh*t about newbies problems. It's "no,no,no, let them quit" etc...
An idea makes a problem? Immediate reaction is "YOU SUCK BECAUSE". I wonder if I have ever seen on this board those words : "yes, but think of".
In fact there is no problem.
Those newbs have no right to play EvE afterall, isn't it? It's OUR game, let them rot in their newbiness a few days and with some luck they will just go away.
Newbs are a pain, they are stupid, act like fools and keep asking dumb questions.
Just get rid of them.
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Eleanor Sibereth
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Posted - 2004.05.28 12:33:00 -
[43]
when i was mining in a probe i used secure cans a lot....now with the thorax and 5 miner II , it is almost impossible to use them properly so i use them in my indus as "secure cargo expands" and jetmine !
ore theft is part of the game and i will never complain about it ! i've already stolen one jet full of omber with my probe at the beginning ! (lot of back and forth travel between the station and the can but that was really fun to think i was actually takin precious ore from a certainly more experienced player !)
the only thing i find quite funny is that i've never seen an ore thief acting under his main character ! be proud of what you do guys as pirates are !
i know this is a little off topic as the topic was "say sommething other than use secure" but am i the only one to be off-topic in this thread ?
-=Bardo Thodol Addict=- |
csebal
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Posted - 2004.05.28 13:17:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dust Puppy
I mined in to secure cans just a few weeks ago and it worked out fine. If I can do than surely everyone else can do it because I must be one of the worst miner in EVE.
This is one of the biggest problems with the way people think about it. No, you are not the one who NEEDs cans to mine. Those are the guys like me, who can mine ~1000m3 / MINUTE.
Now consider this, i fill a stinkin giant can in 5-6 minutes, even a jet can in less than half an hour. I dont think, that my mining capacity (with three months of skill training allowing me to have ALL mining related skills @ level 5) should match to that of a small time miner, who most probably havent spent more than a few days in training these skills.
And still it does, simply because the logistics involved in transporting the ore negate the advantages the top mining skill levels would mean.
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This post is nothing more than my personal opinion. It does not represent the official standpoint of Fountain Alliance, or the HUN Corporation in any way.
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csebal
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Posted - 2004.05.28 13:20:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
I don't get all this about not being able to anchor them close together being a problem; you only need one. Even an apocalypse with 10 harvesters can't fill a giant secure can in one go; and your mate with the indy can keep emptying it.
Ehem.. sure, and that mate has teleporting abilities, to jump back and forth between the can and the station every other minute. An apoc with 10 harvesters has an effective mining output of about 1000m3 / minute, filling a giant can in 5-6 minutes. An indy needs 5 minutes just to dock / unload. MAYBE you can keep it up with instajump bookmarks, but aren't those 'unfair/exploiting' just like the jet can mining is supposed to be?
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This post is nothing more than my personal opinion. It does not represent the official standpoint of Fountain Alliance, or the HUN Corporation in any way.
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csebal
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Posted - 2004.05.28 13:31:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Charles Burger
In RL if you throw a fiver out of your bedroom window and someone picks it up and walks off with it... what legal rights do you have to get it back? NONE! Even if you clam you were "making a big pile of money to collect later"...
Sad to inform you, but if you steal my can full of trash which stands in front of my house, or even just the trash from it, you are considered a thief by the law.
Unless i decide otherwise, everything i own - no matter where it is located - belongs to me, and everyone who takes it constitutes a theft.
Take the following scenario:
I walk the street, and stop at a stand to buy an ice. I put my bag down besides me as my hands are all full otherwise. You come and take the bag.
Sorry to say, but thats still a theft, and stealing from a can with its owner standing next to it is just the same. In real life, you would go to jail for that. And no, no-one cares that the bag was on the street, as i only placed it there to free my hands, and intended to pick it up later.
Would we follow your rules of ownership, every empty car people forget to close or every cabrio would be free to take. Why? because you can access it without breaking trough a lock and the owner left it there.
Thats just plain stupid m8.
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This post is nothing more than my personal opinion. It does not represent the official standpoint of Fountain Alliance, or the HUN Corporation in any way.
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csebal
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Posted - 2004.05.28 13:51:00 -
[47]
Edited by: csebal on 28/05/2004 13:58:28
And finnaly:
Miners are always complaining about ore thieves stealing from them, and ore thieves about miners complaining about them.
Thats why it would be good to have CCP clearly state how they think it should be. As it is now:
Lets see high sec (>0.4):
- Can dropped and left there:
Stuff that can be considered free to take, as its most probably abandoned. Then again, for a can full of minerals, you can also guess that the owner will most probably be looking for it later. Anyway: taking it is not clearly theft.
- Can dropped and someone sitting next to it:
Well, this is as clear as it will get. Unless the owner specifically tells you, anything you take from his can is considered stolen. Most probably he only placed it there temporarily (like you putting your bag next to you on the street to relax your hands), and pick it up later. Then again, in empire space you can freely take it, as he cant enforce his ownership claims, and in concord's eyes, everything dropped is free as of now
In low sec space (<0.5):
- Lone containers:
Just like in empire space
- Containers with someone sitting next to it:
Just like in empire space, with one big exception: the owner can freely shoot you there, so in case you take something the owner wants to keep, you may find yourself looking at the wrong side of a gun there.
Bottomline:
At the moment, you can freely steal in 'police protected space', and you can't steal in 'lawless space', simply because in 'lawless space' people can enforce their claims on items, whereas in empire space they cant.
I have to correct myself here:
The annoying lamers - using the protection of concord and noob corps - are unable to steal stuff in low sec space, because they are lacking the strength to force their will onto others. You can take whatever you want in low sec, if you are strong enough to enforce your claim.
This is ridiculous imo, but i fear it fits CCP too well, so i doubt they'll effectively do anything to change it. To be honest, i think its kind of exploiting a weakness in the system (first for using the noob corps, as people cant declare war on those, and for doing it in empire space, where you cant hit people you are not at war with) and for that, it should go.
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This post is nothing more than my personal opinion. It does not represent the official standpoint of Fountain Alliance, or the HUN Corporation in any way.
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