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New Dev Blog: Speed Rebalanced by Nozh

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 11:15:00 - [1] My first thoughts are that you fail on the final point made in the goals "Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic." With yet another speed nerf (already had two) you make guerrilla warfare less and less viable. The only thing that makes it possible for a small gang to fight a larger gang is the ability to "speed tank". In other words, the fact that missiles and drones can't hit you, and that larger ships have trouble hitting smaller ships at speed is the ONLY thing keeping you alive. If you take this away, all you will do is give every advantage to the blob. It seems to me that far from discouraging blob warfare, CCP actually seek to encourage it. Guess this is the end of the lag free fight :(
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 11:45:00 - [2] Certain ships (most frigs for example) are useless not because the game is unbalanced, but because they have NO role (see af's) or at least are so bad at their role that other ships are preferrable (all other frigs). Nerfing speed will not change this, frigates will still be completely pointless. Instead of a speed nerf, CCP should be looking into revising their tracking/sig radius model. People don't fly frigs because when you get shot at by a blob (and lets face it, wherever you go now there is a blob) you die very fast due to some people getting lucky wrecking shots. If you fly a cruiser (mainly speed hac) with shield extenders you have a chance to get out if you start taking damage. Also, why should drones/missiles hit EVERY ship, when guns cannot. Tracking is designed so that guns CANNOT hit smaller faster ships, this should be the same with drones (which use guns) and missiles. I believe the first goal in the blog is wrong, the second is already the case (interceptors can already go a lot faster than any other ship in the game), the third goal, why not? Isn't that what variety is for? the fourth goal I agree with, afterburners are pointless atm the last goal, well this won't be achieved with these changes.
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 11:51:00 - [3] Oh, one more thing. There are already effective ways to combat speed, recon ships. The minmatar recons can web you from 40-50km away, and the curse can neut your cap from a similar distance. A gang with a fair number of these ships in can render most speed fit gangs useless. All I see is CCP giving in to whining from carebears who don't want to take time out of their precious training schedule to train for either of these two races of recon ships. I certainly think the warp scrambler changes are interesting, it makes the arazu have a function, but as for the other changes, I think these will have to be looked at very closely and I will certainly be testing them on sisi next week.
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 16:46:00 - [4] It saddens me to see the devs in this game displaying a complete lack of knowledge of the game they have created. It saddens me further to show a distinct lack of respect for players from the 2004-2005 era that know way more about this game than the 2007-2008 caldari carebears that have whined so hard to get this nerf put in place. Many of these comments were well thought out with a lot of consideration, to just dismiss them as "kneejerk" is just plain insulting. To quote Wrangler's sig, "It's not worth doing something unless you are doing something that someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing." I think this just about sums up the dev attitude. WTG CCP, nerf all the fun out of your game so everyone gets bored of it and leaves, that makes business sense.
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:25:00 - [5] Originally by: PeacefullNub AFs boost is good. But please give retribution -1 high +1 med, so it can actualy use AB and new scrambler. This is not a buff for AFs.
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:16:00 - [6] Originally by: EveJoker why not try fixing the bug/issue with the physics engine first, or could this possibly lead to other fixes you dont want like ummm desync, node crashes etc? this ^^
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:30:00 - [7] Originally by: Tolderan Slowboats FTW, i love this Changes I think lots of people needs handkerchiefs now don't think this will make your alliance suck any less.
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:43:00 - [8] Originally by: OVERCOPES 1 I find it amusing that all the people that are crying foul of these changes are the likes of pandemic legion,EXCEED AMD TRI. They enjoy themselves using this perfectly acceptable game mechanic and are now bleating like stuffed pigs about it getting BALANCED. Good move CCP. fixed for ya
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:49:00 - [9] Originally by: Militis Kolosok As an inty pilot, I fail 95% of the time :) fixed for ya
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:59:00 - [10] Originally by: Kerfira Lag only really became a major issue after a certain alliance made it their tactic to outblob their opponents..... Makes your post deliciously ironic Funny, a lot of alliances have been out blobbing their opponents since before goons were even around. Afaik bob invented the B(l)OB

Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 23:21:00 - [11] Originally by: Trash Monster CCP use drugs? ccc
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 23:42:00 - [12] Originally by: Aya I see 2 good things coming from this nerf if it goes through 1. The people who whined about nanos will still get their asses kicked by the 04-05 people and realize its not the nano but the fact that they suck at this game which is causing them to die. 2. Hydra and Daisho will undock (instead of hiding in their stations) Actually, thats not right at all: 1) The people who whined about nanos being overpowered will whine about something else being overpowered 2) Hydra and Daisho will still fail to undock, because at the end of the day they suck and always will.
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.26 02:20:00 - [13] Originally by: Carebear Caring Worst dev blog ever, who ever thought of this should be fired tbqh this ^^
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.27 22:29:00 - [14] Originally by: Matrix Skye Edited by: Matrix Skye on 27/07/2008 22:22:44 Originally by: Matrixcvd Edited by: Matrixcvd on 27/07/2008 21:43:09 What I find hilarious is the comments by the ret3rded devs that go "SPeed breaks the game mechanics" and why exactly are you playing this ****ed game developed by ****ed devs? Go make your own game with Ki An, Nexus Kinnon, and Le Skunk and GTFO of this one before it falls and hits you in your face. You sir need to go join WoW.
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.27 23:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Ryelle Seriously, someone make a list of reasons why Nano is overpowered. All this arguing is getting nowhere. Cos carebears can't solo 5 nano hacs?
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.28 10:54:00 - [16] Originally by: Typhado3 I was taking a look at this version of the speed chart (http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0807/speed_nerf_comparison.jpg, just both of them put side by side on same graph) and I noticed a few things. 1. These graphs seem to be slightly confusing on the actual numbers. It would help if ccp said what setup they used on these ships, or what the skills of the pilot are. I did a quick calculation on slasher with just t2 mwd (no other speed mods) and max skills and I got 4035m/s where graph shows max frigate is about 3750. I'm wondering how the republic firetail (fastest faction frigate in game) which with no speed mods, max skill and a single t2 mwd should have speed of around 3681m/s yet faction frigates max speed is shown to be under 3000/ms 2. A lot of the sections are a lot more squeezed together now (for example frigates). This means that the fastest ships will be going slower obviously, but also the slower ships are getting a lot faster. How/why are these slow ships getting that much faster? I'm assuming that the slowest ship for frigs is probably the merlin or some similar slow frigate, this ship with mwd is now around 700m/s (40%) faster than it was pre-nerf. My guess is the numbers have been fiddled to "prove" the guy's reasons for the nerf.
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.28 11:28:00 - [17] All the people that keep saying "there shouldnt be ships that have no effective tactics to counter them" in justifying why ships shouldnt do 15-20km/s+ are idiots, a huginn/rapier with two webs fitted (standard fit) will ruin these ships day without any problem at all. A curse with a few neuts near the huginn/rapier will cause that ship to be dead in the water. For example: 20km/s -> 2x90% webs -> 200m/s then curse neuts said ship -> ~10m/s Now if you can't kill a ship doin 10m/s then you shouldnt play eve, simple as. As has been said many times by the devs. Eve is meant to be a dark harsh world which is difficult to make your way in. Why on earth would you nerf things to make it easier? If anything you should be making the game even harder!
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:54:00 - [18] Originally by: Pushtan this discussion seems to have descended to COAD levels....how about brining it back on topic? Tbh the OP has the intelligent reasoning of a COAD alt poster, so why should the rest of the thread be any different?
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.28 15:39:00 - [19] Well, I've been on sisi, and despite the devs saying they weren't going to listen to any "kneejerk reactions" the nerf is as bad as everyone thinks. Basically it has made all hacs pretty useless, being easily killed compared to bc/bs which are far cheaper (with insurance) and require less skills to use. WTG CCP!!! You have succeeded in giving us yet ANOTHER useless class of ship.
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.28 23:25:00 - [20] CCP start the downward spiral towards the end of EVE? Calling it here first.

Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.29 00:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg CCP has always made decisions based on their desire to see variety Why are they making a nerf that reduces variety then? This nerf will take away all the current advantages of hac's being smaller and lighter than bc/bs leaving them pretty pointless (why use a 90m hac when you can use a 30m bc).
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.29 00:16:00 - [22] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Variety of ships homey. Where is the variety? All I see is the removing of options from the game. There is no increase in variety of other styles of gameplay that weren't already there, only a decrease in the ships able to "nano".
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.29 00:19:00 - [23] Originally by: Markas Crais Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Haaklen, you're saying w/o nanos there will be more blobs or that you wont be able to avoid the blob. Cause I could care whichever was your intent. Avoid the blob with intelligence and roaming gangs will stay in teh same #'s. Originally by: Haniblecter Teg [...]In addition, people will not have to blob to do small gangs or 'avoid the blob'. You avoid the blob by not engaging it, and running away from it if its after you. [...]If a nano gang jumps into a system and finds there's a 'blob' there, boohoo, you shouldnt be able to outrun it So running away from a blob in non-nano is okay, but running away from the blob is nano is not okay? I think what he actually means is "yay, now I can mine in peace". Seriously though, he is pointing out EXACTLY why this whole patch is completely wrong. It is a patch that PROMOTES blobbing. Any patch that does this is totally wrong, since in doing so it promotes lag. CCP should spend their time fixing the problems with the game, and not nerf something that is a non-problem.
Tomic The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.29 00:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Neutrino Sunset I'm fairly firm in my conviction that the whole HACs flying faster than max boosted light drones and missiles is an unintended and unhelpful mechanic that doesn't do the game any good at all. Whether the proposed changes are the best solution to the problem I'm not so sure. You could say the same thing about snipers though, and people aren't calling for those to be nerfed (in fact they just got a boost). Sniping from a long range negates drones and missiles just the same as speed does. It makes perfect sense to make ever faster ships, why wouldn't people make up modules for ships that make them go fast enough to evade enemies weapons, after all they invented shield and armor boosters to tank the damage from enemies weapons, speed is another obvious method of surviving. To effectively end the speed tank is to remove content from the game.

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