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New Dev Blog: Speed Rebalanced by Nozh

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 16:52:00 - [1] I do see 2 problems with the proposed changes, even if I am a fan of the overall nerf. Snake implants have no need to be nerfed after all the other changes. MWD/Overdrive/Mass are all being decreased or altogether removed, and that alone should bring speed down to reasonable levels. Keep the snakes as they are to add a variety if people really wish to do the risk/reward concept, b/c they alone, will not unbalance speed the way it was before where not needing implants still gave insain speeds. Afterburners are really getting no love. The only difference post patch would be that you'd need 2 mids dedicated to an AB and MWD to make them worthwhile. So keeping with the current proposed changes, I'll provide a more useful solution w/n the current bounds. All Galante MWD bonus ships should change to a Web resistance bonus. IE 5% per level resistance to webifier effects. It gives these ships the ability to more appropriately speed tank at close range, since armor tanking with no grid/cap is near impossible. With Dual 50% webs on a blaster ship with 25% redux in web effectiveness, it only reduces their speed by 37.5%. Assault frigates, the other ship seeming lost in this problem could change their current resist bonus (which should just be static anyways) to a 10% per level web resist bonus. This makes these ships far more defensively viable in combat, while still fearing neuts, smartbombs, rapiers/huggins, close range cruiser setups, range interceptors, etc. It's the Economy Stupid
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 16:56:00 - [2] Originally by: Tal Notts Also, i really don't understand where this problem with polycarbs came from, yes a T1 polycarb is better than a T2 nanofibre but there is a massive price difference. I'll have to admit now that my opinion is biased but i agree with some of the posts in that all these changes will encourage is blob tactics. Nanos are not invincable as they are, far from it, and although a slight adjustment in speeds may be needed i think the suggestions are just going too far. edit: corrected typos It's the Economy Stupid
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:10:00 - [3] Edited by: Yaay on 25/07/2008 18:15:39 Originally by: Wesley Baird Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Originally by: Wesley Baird Perfect example...carebear alliance + carebear opinion Anyone surprised?! Because you of course are entirely unbiased, sensible, and have the entire game's balance at the back of your mind, not just your personal way to win? Please, quit with the name-calling, you're not in CAOD. Funny, most every pro-nerf post is from some tiny corp or carebear alliance...wonder why that is?! Perhaps because the only strategy you have come up with to battle nanogangs is numbers... Of course there are many extremely effective anti-nano tactics...but lets not use those when we can all just blob up... I guess Jump bridges weren''t enough for the pro blob forces...just remove the last anti-blob techniques in the game... I'll turn the tides on every arguement you've made in this thread..... get better FCs/pilots and maybe you won't need a blob to counter a blob. Ask Cliest how he took 50-70 hacs into 200 bruce and decimated them. Ask me how I took 20-40 into 40-70 man IAC gangs and sustained an active on field fight for an hour until more help could arrive to do enough damage against their carriers. Ask your mates in BE how they can take a few Ravens and some sensor dampeners and take on 20-30 man gangs. Ask Myndpyer Richie how 2 people in feroxs can go against 10-12 TCF and comeout with over 2 bil in kills/loot w/o loss. Ask MC how a 15 man BoB gang maneuvered around their 30-40 with bubbles and traded equal losses. Get a clue dude. It's the Economy Stupid
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:58:00 - [4] Originally by: Tempest Kane Originally by: viper zulu <--- Wishes I still had my titan:( Originally by: viper zulu Yaay didn't you just loose a titan in your alliance? I think you need better FC's! In fairness atleast they used their titan (-: Actually, we had some nano FCs from the north running the circus that day :-) It's the Economy Stupid
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:01:00 - [5] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 25/07/2008 20:59:28 Originally by: Kery Syander Originally by: Malachon Draco Missiles have an advantage that they never miss if an enemy is close enough/going slow enough. Additionally, a missile user doesn't need to worry about transversals or his own speed. That he then can't hit other ships going really fast, well I'd call it a form of balance. How are we gonna compensate gun users for the fact their guns don't always hit compared to missile users? this. unfortunately people seem to forget this all the time. Those missile wrecking shots are awesome btw. And how often do turrets miss if the target is in range and going slow enough? Honestly, that is a terrible arguement. Not only that, speed still reduces missle damage... so zomg, we're taking 40 dps from missles going 2.5 km/s rather than .7 dps from missles going 4km/s and 0 dps going 5km/s. It's the Economy Stupid
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:03:00 - [6] Originally by: Viper **zIe Originally by: Yaay Actually, we had some terrible pilots account sharing supercapitals that day Fixed that bit for you. Heh, good work editing, may the truth haunt me forever n ever. It's the Economy Stupid
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:04:00 - [7] Originally by: Kyguard Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Originally by: Agmar Not to derail the thread, but a serious question. Has a thread ever gone this many pages within 24 hours? /me puts the over/under at 78 pages in 24 hours How big was the whine thread on your forums when you lost Nebba's titan? How big is the whine thread on your forums when you read this blog? You walked right into it dungar Apparently, he missed carrier nerf prop 1 It's the Economy Stupid
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:16:00 - [8] Originally by: alterist Originally by: Yaay Originally by: Tempest Kane In fairness atleast they used their titan (-: Actually, we had some nano FCs from the north running the circus that day :-) Yup they had remote control over the titan pilots finger that made him not fit any rigs and forced him to jump to a cyno 200km off the pos while there was 60? hostile caps in the system..... Funny if you knew who lit the cyno and where it was supposed to be at. It's the Economy Stupid
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:22:00 - [9] Edited by: Yaay on 25/07/2008 21:24:40 Originally by: ori16 FFs all people need to do is fit a damp neut and a web and the thing dies. yes, when he's stupid enough to come in range and not get out in the time it takes to lock/damp/neut/web. You ever tried to jump on a group of nano running away from you? Damn near impossible unless you're faster.... So alternative, dock up or battleball until they get bored and run away... oh wait, most nano pilots like orbiting stations at 300 off until someone makes a mistake on warp in or moves just a tad too far out. God knows, I've watched some corps do it for hours at a time in 1 system... that's real fair to the defenders. I remember being in BoB in a 2 hr long fight with PL where I think the total loss count was 3. 3 We battle balled and moved around as a disciplined group, they nano'd . Might as well have been a song and dance. It's the Economy Stupid
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.26 00:34:00 - [10] Originally by: GreGh Rakrot so today we had 3 man nano gang roaming, we pewpew some stuff on gates then just when it dies gate flashes few times and local goes up 10 or so, thorax uncloaks we start hurting him then cyno pops! and 3 carriers jump in, on our 3 man gang, with rest of their gang rolling in... we get chased for few jumps and manage to get rid of them thanks to our speed ofc now imagine 3 man bs/bc gang roaming like that... ccp, this blanket style changes that you came up on 5h brain-storming session is overdoing it yes, balance speed, np with that, but there are less complicated core game changing ways of doing that like: - balancing polys (dont know why this hasnt been done next day after rigs were introduced) - stack penalty for all speed mods/rigs combined (as suggested) - simply reducing MWD speed boost - adding more counters like fixing bonuses on lachesis/arazu so they can properly damp game has changed so much and is so complicated that no radical changes should be applied but instead slow step-by-step balancing if you go on with this changes ...no i wont quit lol, ill just find next type of roaming gangs that will probably soon become next subject to endless cries and whines on this forums ...its not like i would do that the first time, think its more like the 4th time ^^ ...and round and round we go soooo, omg have a scout or bail earlier? It's the Economy Stupid

Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.27 15:46:00 - [11] Edited by: Yaay on 27/07/2008 15:47:31 Why don't they just change webs to class size modules and rather than decrease speed, they increase mass artificially..... this would slow down warping ships, slow down mwd, make ship size/class matter more and solve a lot of the polycarb arguements. If that alone sounds bad, maybe just add a new mod to do this, while lowering web % and upping it's range a bit.... Hell, maybe up the range of webs and make the 2 scripts do this, dunno. Any sort of mass increase mod would deffo need a good range like 20-30km base. Could change painter bonus on rapiers to affect these mods too. It's the Economy Stupid
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.28 07:49:00 - [12] Edited by: Yaay on 28/07/2008 07:50:09 The problem with speed right now is the average fit can easily get speeds and passive tanks high enough to combat too many obstacles w/o fear of heavy loss. I do not mind watching an alliance get camped into their home system by 20 people. I do mind that there is very little they can do about removing those people from local beyond besting their speed setup to even have a chance at catching them. Speed goes in the same category as what cloaks should be, they should be good short term tools, ie 15-20 min. People say speed is the only way to counter jump bridges and jammed systems and drake gangs, Yet they don't even try to come up with better solutions for those problems, instead, it's just let me keep my speed. That's such a ******ed arguement. I do think that to counter this speed nerf, CCP needs to Implement removal of the ability to both cyno jam a system while still allowing jump bridges. Alliances should have to choose one or the other. It's the Economy Stupid
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.28 11:50:00 - [13] Edited by: Yaay on 28/07/2008 11:50:46 Originally by: Natalia Kovac Edited by: Natalia Kovac on 28/07/2008 11:14:24 Originally by: Yaay Edited by: Yaay on 28/07/2008 07:50:09 The problem with speed right now is the average fit can easily get speeds and passive tanks high enough to combat too many obstacles w/o fear of heavy loss. I do not mind watching an alliance get camped into their home system by 20 people. I do mind that there is very little they can do about removing those people from local beyond besting their speed setup to even have a chance at catching them. Speed goes in the same category as what cloaks should be, they should be good short term tools, ie 15-20 min. People say speed is the only way to counter jump bridges and jammed systems and drake gangs, Yet they don't even try to come up with better solutions for those problems, instead, it's just let me keep my speed. That's such a ****ed arguement. I do think that to counter this speed nerf, CCP needs to Implement removal of the ability to both cyno jam a system while still allowing jump bridges. Alliances should have to choose one or the other. How to kill a nanogang in your home system. 1: Interdictors/Heavy Interdictors 2: Rapiers/Huginns 3: A little DPS. 4: Engage enemy 5: Profit Kindly shut the ** up. That's not how you kill them, that's how you discourage them to fight... that does not discourage them to sit 200 off of you and wait patiently for a mistake... I know, I've run both sides of it. nor does it discourage them to leave your territory. It's the Economy Stupid
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.28 11:52:00 - [14] Edited by: Yaay on 28/07/2008 11:56:00 Edited by: Yaay on 28/07/2008 11:53:28 quote=Andnowthenews] Originally by: Yaay People say speed is the only way to counter jump bridges and jammed systems and drake gangs, Yet they don't even try to come up with better solutions for those problems, instead, it's just let me keep my speed. That's such a ******ed arguement. Maybe somebody who thinks of himself as such a great FC could enlighten us on how to counter a hostile blob jumping over a roaming gang in their systems to the constellation choke point with caps and other ships (maybe even a titan or 4), then putting a shed load of bubbles all over the gate?. good job, you quoted the first half, wanna give the 2nd half a try? Or one of my other post in the thread? Maybe you see I'm arguing more for speed, and for counters and reasons not to use it. It's the Economy Stupid
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.28 11:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Natalia Kovac shrugs. Failing that get a carrier and assign as many fighters as you can to the fastest ship you can get. good way to lose fighters It's the Economy Stupid

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