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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:57:00 -
[1]
I'm worried about our entire race.
Yeah. Sorry.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:51:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Euriti
RIP Ranis/Brutix/Thorax/Deimos and the minmatar race.
All hail our missile/laser overlords
Ha. I already guessed this was going to happen, amarr cruiser 5 finishes in 3 days. Screw my 25m SP in minmatar ships, I didn't want it anyway.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.25 17:56:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Arcon Telf
Edited by: Arcon Telf on 25/07/2008 17:55:03
Originally by: Transmaniacon
In EFT, scrams get the ship bonus as well, so either its an error on their part, or a typo somewhere else.
Is it that way in practice? How come no one has mentioned the Fleeting Warp Scrambler, with its 20km range?
That's a disruptor with a misnomer.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.25 19:51:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Uh...who says the Vagabond won't be good after the balance?
Because the vagabond is minmatar... and minmatar is the vagabond. It's okay, we don't have any other ships tbh.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:09:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
This is a minnie buff if anything.
I have just lost faith in the S+M forum. 
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:26:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Anubis Xian
This is a minnie buff if anything.
I have just lost faith in the S+M forum.
Minnie are still faster than everyone else. Granted the difference isn't pronounced enough for the most part.
So you think this is a minnie buff... because the speed difference between minmatar ships and other ships has gotten smaller?
Can I subscribe to your newsletter?
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.25 20:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Well, actually it has gotten effectively bigger. Because the speed difference matters more now than it did before.
Not sure I buy that. I need to dig up the speed formula, but it should all work out to be percentages. Like it normally is.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.25 21:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
I'm not saying he doesn't, I'm saying the sky is not falling.
It's not. But any way you cut it, it's going to hit hard in one of minmatar's few advantages. Our frigates are okay. Our battleships suck. Our capitals are laughable to downright pathetic.
All we have are our cruisers. This nerf already hits two of them hard (Rapier, Huginn). Potentially another 4 (Vagabond, stabber, fleet stabber, fleet bellicose(eh..)). Hits both of our command ships hard. Hits our logistics hard.
If this nerf does in those 4 ships I listed (it probably won't, but we'll see), we're left with the worst sniper hac and a hic. Either way you cut it, CCP basically knifed a bunch of our ships in the chest. It's most certainly not a boost to minmatar, any way you look at it.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.25 21:59:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Min BSes don't suck
Prove me otherwise. Go on, I want to hear it.
Quote:
The Recons are not getting nerfed
So a web nerf and a speed nerf isn't a nerf? They will even be less useful with all the other speed cuts.
Quote:
As for the already fast Minnie ships...they will still be significantly faster than their counterparts.
Bold statement for someone who hasn't seen the numbers yet. Nobody has. I'm quite positive it will just scale down.. in which case, no, they won't be "significantly" faster.
Let me make a stupid example to get the "scale" point across. Given that all speed formulas rely on percentages.. which they should.
CCP decides they want turret wars instead of spaceship wars. All speeds are cut by 99%. Tracking remains how it is.
Minmatar turret goes 13m/s. Gallente turret goes 10m/s. Gallente turret tracks twice as good as the minmatar turret. Result? Who would ever want to fly a minmatar turret.
and then turn it around, the other way. CCP wants speed wars.
Minmatar battleships go 7km/s. Gallente battleships go 5km/s. Result? Who would ever want to fly a gallente battleship? Minmatar battleships control distance.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.25 22:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
1237 potential DPS and 80k EHP sound good?
No. Because 1. It's fake DPS. 2. It's at 3km. 3. Failure of an EHP. 4. A blasterthron would eat that ship for breakfast twice over. An amarr ship could do 80 DPS less for 50% more EHP at a much farther range.
Quote:
What is 40% of 5 km/s? That's right 2km/s. 40% of that? You got it, 800 m/s.
How many ships do you spose will even reach 5 km/s?
Stupidity. Webs are getting nerfed. Minnie recon speed is getting nerfed. It's a NERF. No matter how good you think it is after, it's still a NERF.
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Fast enough to win an engagement a slower ship would lose might just be significant.
So you get to draw an invisible line that says this ship is an acceptable nano and this one isn't? Seriously now.
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Minmatar Battleships have always controlled distance.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 2 years ago. That's when they kited megas. Not now. Certainly not after this nano nerf. Want some reasons why? Their base speed isnt very high. Their MWD speed isnt much higher than others. OVERHEATING.
But. Let's pretend they can. A tempest with 800mm AC IIs, barrage, 3 damage mods, full set of gallente drones and falloff rigs, is outdamaged by the mega until 24km. 24km. Funny, that's scram range. That's not even considering the tanks, which the mega wins by a long shot. It's also outdamaged (outtanked too) by armageddon at every range. I'm sure you'll go on about capless weapons, damage selection, and neuts. Take a look at the 32 page thread about this if you truly want to go down that path, that argument has been defeated at least 10 times.
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And they still will. Yet Gallente will still be more popular, because of the drones.
Yeah, it's the drones that make gallente popular. Not their higher damage, their bigger tank, or their ability to actually be worth a shit in a fleet fight.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.25 22:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
The Vagabond isn't a nanoship...it's just a fast ship. Nanoships are ships that aren't intended to go ultra fast, yet do it better than the Vaga...etc
Your point being?
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.25 23:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Anubis Xian
The Vagabond isn't a nanoship...it's just a fast ship. Nanoships are ships that aren't intended to go ultra fast, yet do it better than the Vaga...etc
Your point being?
You're asking too much here Astro. I don't think he has one. 
I don't think so either. It's pretty sad that his way to undermine my argument is piddling over definitions that were never concretely defined. Whatever though.
PS. Have you seen that vaga setup by the dev in the omgiant thread? Full snakes, 2 t2 aux thrusters, 2 ODs. 4km/s. 
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.27 03:44:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mr Ignitious
hmm maybe this whole nerf thing WILL add flavor to pvp (i will still miss my nano tar though  )
and if its any consolation to you mimtars i'll cry for you too.
Thanks bud. <3 We'll take all we can get. While the forum will flood with blasterboat pilots whining their little hearts out about a small nerf to webs, us minnies watch our last decent ships float away.
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.27 19:34:00 -
[14]
I don't think there should ever be a discussion of tempest vs mega ever again. It's stupid. The mega always wins anyway. Kiting megas was 2 years ago. Along with multispec ECM, 2 heavy nos, and a dual lar tank.
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