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Red Thunder Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.07.27 09:57:00 - [1] why the hell are snakes getting nerfed......if i fly around with 3bil isk of implants ready to die in my head dont i deserve to kick ass? Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines
Deadeye Devie Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.27 09:59:00 - [2] the reason they are 3 bil is supply and demand. if they were not part of the overpowered unbalancing problem they are trying to address with this patch, they wouldnt be worth 3 bil, they would be expensive, yes...but not stupidly expensive. Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both.
Terraform Gallente Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.07.27 10:32:00 - [3] to OP: So you're basically saying: "because i have more isk to pay, I should automatically be allowed to be unbalanced"? You knew they were due for a nerf, stop pretending this is the latest news.
Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:44:00 - [4] Originally by: Terraform to OP: So you're basically saying: "because i have more isk to pay, I should automatically be allowed to be unbalanced"? You knew they were due for a nerf, stop pretending this is the latest news. yes if i spend more isk than you... i should have a advantage over a person who doesnt spend shit all ---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7 Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
Tao Han Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:45:00 - [5] Originally by: Riho Originally by: Terraform to OP: So you're basically saying: "because i have more isk to pay, I should automatically be allowed to be unbalanced"? You knew they were due for a nerf, stop pretending this is the latest news. yes if i spend more isk than you... i should have a advantage over a person who doesnt spend shit all Oh, but he will still have the advantage, just not as great.
Rajere No Trademark Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:47:00 - [6] when slave sets make armor tanks invincible, then you can have your snakes back. Til then they are overpowered and due for a nerf. NOTR How to Fail at Eve
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.07.27 13:38:00 - [7] Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 27/07/2008 13:39:17 Besides, with all the changes to speed, don't you think an additional (unpenalised) 24.7% base speed is quite good? Sure you won't be untouchable anymore, but you'll still be very fast. Fit a tracking disruptor in a mid-slot and your opponents still won't hit you, more than likely you'll still be able to stay ahead of precision heavies with ease. As for your final speed after the changes. (assuming all relevant skills 5) Calculation done with stacking penalties as per Stacking Penalty Guide, errors are ofcourse possible. Vaga top speed with a T1 MWD (500% speed boost, 625% with Acceleration Control 5) fitted with 3 ODIIs (I assumed 12% speed bonus per module as per Dev Blog) and a HG snake set (24.7%) comes out at 4516.9 m/s still far to fast for a precision heavy to hit and only just in range of a double explosion velocity rigged precision light missile. Add a max skilled Claymore as your gang booster and you come out at 5682.3 m/s which beats even those. In what universe is that NOT FAST ENOUGH????
justsometrader	Posted - 2008.07.27 13:56:00 - [8] ooooh snaaake its a snaaaake !!!!
Valandril Caldari Exiled. Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.07.27 14:06:00 - [9] Originally by: justsometrader ooooh snaaake its a snaaaake !!!! /me jumps on nearest chair WHERE !??!?!?! ---
Grizwold Le Phare	Posted - 2008.07.27 14:46:00 - [10] Originally by: justsometrader ooooh snaaake its a snaaaake !!!! MUSHROOOOOOOM!!!!!
Yaro	Posted - 2008.07.27 14:47:00 - [11] I guess we should stop playing eve because of that stupid patch, which ruines the gameplay which was good enough for the past several years. Lag and whiners kill eve
Kobushi OCForums	Posted - 2008.07.27 14:51:00 - [12] so many nanotears so little neurons firing at the same time...
Smurf	Posted - 2008.07.27 14:51:00 - [13] Originally by: Yaro I guess we should stop playing eve because of that stupid patch, which ruines the gameplay which was good enough for the past several years. Lag and whiners kill eve tbh, "good enough" is an over-simplification. It may have been good enough for you. But then, everybody knows that small children are easily amused and entertained....
Katy Karkinoff Minmatar Psycho Chicks	Posted - 2008.07.27 14:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Yaro I guess we should stop playing eve because of that stupid patch, which ruines the gameplay which was good enough for the past several years. Lag and whiners kill eve QFT
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.07.27 14:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Yaro I guess we should stop playing eve because of that stupid patch, which ruines the gameplay which was good enough for the past several years. Lag and whiners kill eve how emo i think its good because were gonna sew random new tactics to re-find the mod with the nice niche i think ab/mwd/scramming ceptors may be all the rage poudly annoying fc's since 2007 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast
Skitza Aluzion.	Posted - 2008.07.27 15:13:00 - [16] Enough is enough! I have had it with these mother**ing snakes on this mother**ing game!
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.27 15:31:00 - [17] Originally by: BiggestT Originally by: Yaro I guess we should stop playing eve because of that stupid patch, which ruines the gameplay which was good enough for the past several years. Lag and whiners kill eve how emo i think its good because were gonna sew random new tactics to re-find the mod with the nice niche i think ab/mwd/scramming ceptors may be all the rage I can't say I'm really looking forward to this patch, as it looks way too broad. They're attacking the effects of this problem with a sledgehammer, without really addressing the situation itself. I'd honestly prefer they fix precision heavy's, change the missile formula around a bit in general, add more counters (scrambs are fine, scripted webbers too), and then look for a way to slow down the super-fast nano ships, but not nerf the hell out of the slower ships anyways. Ships going 3.5km/s aren't really the problem, as they are clearly killable, and plenty of counters already exist for those, yet those are getting punched in the face by the current changes. The problems with sledgehammer-nerfing nanos are several. The first that comes to mind is that if you slow down ships whose only tank is speed, they become very suspectible to missiles. Now I don't like the uber-fast nano ships simply becoming immune to missiles anymore than the next guy. But what I also don't like is a t2-fitted nano hac getting completely owned by a hml/tank drake that just sits there. Maybe if the game had any feasible counter to missiles other than speed, haha, it'd be different. If that becomes the case because they slow the casual t2 nanos down too much, then you will simply see fewer nanos. Lots of people may be happy about that, but you have to realize that nanos are the only real option for pvping in enemy territory. Fast ships that can hit and then flee are the only real option for striking into territory that's heavily protected. Think about life in 0.0. How often do you see a solo or small gang of battleships show up in your space? I've seen it a few times, and I got some nice kills every single time. A small fleet can't really hope to go toe to toe with an enemy that's protected with jump bridges, caps, etc. If you force commitment in PVP, then people simply won't commit to fights they can't win, and so you end up with less roaming and PVP. If nano's are nerfed into oblivion, you have less versatile gameplay, but you also end up with simply less PVP in the game. There will still be large fleet fights, but small gangs are not going to make offensive runs into enemy space in battleships, tanked ships, etc. The whole point to nano ships, the reason people are fitting their ships to go fast, is to allow them to break off from combat, and to not commit 100% to a fight. And that's not a BAD thing. If you force commitment, then a gang will chug along through space killing targets smaller than you, until it meets a superior gang, and then it will die. If you have nano's, you have weaker ships, but you can chug along killing targets smaller than you, and then have a good chance of fleeing from the superior gang. It's not like nano gangs are killing stronger gangs. They're simply either running away from those stronger gangs, or killing people stupid enough to get seperated. If you force commitment in every fight, you end up killing any incentive for small gangs to make offensive runs into enemy space, and you lessen PVP overall. Nerfing nano's to hell doesn't open up 'new tactics'. It just decreases the incentive to PVP in enemy space, and to PVP in general. In short (and this post got way too long too fast, lol), I think their nerf is needed, BUT the suggestions put forth by CCP are way too broad. They need to pick a few ideas and implement those, and then see how things go, rather than hitting the problem with a sledgehammer.
P'uck	Posted - 2008.07.27 15:49:00 - [18] As far as I understand it, the real problems around speed start when you stack up on all possible effects in their highest quality. That includes snakes and gangbonuses, as well as top end faction gear. "normal" nanosetups werent THAT much of a physics engine breaking problem, so basically what ccp wants to remove is the option to get your speedboost multiplier up to 8 times over the normal one, or something in that area. re-read the blog if you want exact numbers. BUT I really dont see why that needs all the other changes, too, like webifiers weakened and scramblers boosted, but thats a whole different can of worms. Anyways, I don't have snakes, I don't have polycarbs. I fly ONE ship that relies on speed, its rigged with nozzle joints, because they are cheap. So it doesnt affect me, iskwise. But I really think a major patch like this should give players the option to unplug their implants and rigs without destroying them, so the monetary loss isnt that big. Yeah, I guess the EULA covers fundamental game changes and pretend-items and states a clear "screw you" policy, but really, that one is kind of harsh ;) you know, akmost every other item can be resold, but investments like this are different. So basically I think: speed needs changing, and, depending on WHAT changes finally go through, people should probably be able to unrig their ships and heads. and to answer the OPs question, 3 bil doesnt get you to deserve to kick ass, but piloting skill does
Vex Cachet Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.27 16:01:00 - [19] Sorry for the noob question, but I am a relatively new player looking out toward the future to see what kind of build I want to pursue while I skill up my Learning. I've been following all the discussion about the nano "problem" and I keep reading about the changes due in an upcoming patch. But I don't know where to read these changes themselves. Can someone list all the anticipated changes, or point me to a link where they are listed? Thanks,
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.27 16:03:00 - [20] Aye, pulling the rug out on polycarbs/faction speed mods/snakes is pretty lame. Snakes will still be useful I think, because post patch if you DON'T have snakes, you won't be able to go fast enough to really avoid missiles/damage, heh. Polycarbs though... I feel bad that anyone using them or selling them.
Nicholas Barker Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.27 16:10:00 - [21] should have got them when a full set cost 1bill, then another bill for the tech2 rogues. --------- I JUST FOUND THE GAME!
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.27 16:26:00 - [22] Originally by: Nicholas Barker should have got them when a full set cost 1bill, then another bill for the tech2 rogues. my god someone did not misspell rogues wtf dont you mean rouges
ZephyrLexx Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.07.27 17:43:00 - [23] Originally by: Gneeznow Originally by: Nicholas Barker should have got them when a full set cost 1bill, then another bill for the tech2 rogues. my god someone did not misspell rogues wtf dont you mean rouges ???

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