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Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.07.27 10:46:00 - [1] Perhaps you should get a 20% AB velocity bonus per level and dump the mwd dependence entirely? Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.27 10:57:00 - [2] Originally by: Anubis Xian Perhaps you should get a 20% AB velocity bonus per level and dump the mwd dependence entirely? Hell, if I could get a T2 AB fit Megathron to do 1100m/sec with max skills and a comparable fit to what I run now and all blaster oriented ships had an AB speed ROLE BONUS (not subbing the AB speed bonus in for an existing bonus, but as an added bonus), I'd be happy as a clam. Very interesting idea TBH. Would solve all the blaster ship issues in one go, plus give us some cap back FFS. Stupid MWD cap penalty needs to go. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Ash Bringer	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:05:00 - [3] AB fit with mwd speed is a good idea??? And what is more damaging than a blaster boat and do you really need more buff to "close range undisputed kings" especially all ships will be slower nows means range tanking will be harder??
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:07:00 - [4] Originally by: Ash Bringer AB fit with mwd speed is a good idea??? And what is more damaging than a blaster boat and do you really need more buff to "close range undisputed kings" especially all ships will be slower nows means range tanking will be harder?? Clearly you don't fly blaster ships. Stop talking. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:15:00 - [5] Blaster ships are the only ships in EVE I can agree with having such a bonus; but not that good. Say something like: Role Bonus: 50% Bonus to Afterburner Boost amount. So a T2 AB would be 225% boost after skills (or so) which although is no MWD is still a pretty significant increase ...
Draeca The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:15:00 - [6] Vagabonds will have a new role of bumping megathrons into blaster range. ___
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:17:00 - [7] Originally by: Draeca Vagabonds will have a new role of bumping megathrons into blaster range. ROFL. Funniest post I've read since that complete shitpile of a Dev blog was let loose. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
verde bandit Amarr Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:24:00 - [8] Only 7.5km scrambler do disable MWD's... By the time you eat a 7.5k point you already have a high speed and I don't think there'll be any problem crawling up to blasters' optimal range.
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:27:00 - [9] i dont see how anyone is thinking the change will be a bad thing for the TRUE blasterboats. how many people here nano a demios for example? the answer SHOULD BE next to none, because the ship is awful nano's. with speeds going down accross the board this will be a good change for blasterboats, the main issue being of course that nano fibers will now stack nerf with overdrives and also agility mods. none of witch you fit to your current true blasterboat. so in short everyone else will slow down a lot, you will slow down a little, and in the case of the rax and demois both are designed to run a MWD, if someone scrams me, they are almost in range anyhow. /Theo. Neotheo Dark Materials Linkage
Mag's MASS	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:30:00 - [10] Originally by: verde bandit Only 7.5km scrambler do disable MWD's... By the time you eat a 7.5k point you already have a high speed and I don't think there'll be any problem crawling up to blasters' optimal range. That's right, cause 7.5km is the highest range scram...... oh wait I'm a wait and see guy about this, but I have to say, it's not looking good atm. Mag's Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you.
chiefyuk Amarr The Doctrine	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:31:00 - [11] Blaster boats will be fine. Stop whining. ------------------------------------------------ You can kill the protester but you cant kill the protest ------------------------------------------------
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:32:00 - [12] Originally by: verde bandit Only 7.5km scrambler do disable MWD's... By the time you eat a 7.5k point you already have a high speed and I don't think there'll be any problem crawling up to blasters' optimal range. LOL. It's like all the non-blasterboat pilots are dumb as shit for some reason. ALL 2 point scrams will kill MWDs. This means 9km T2 scrams, and 15km faction scrams. Please unf#ck yourself and get this through your head. There will be no such thing as 'only' a 7.5km scram in PVP. It will always be a minimum of 9km range. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Terraform Gallente Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:33:00 - [13] I'm not so worried about getting INTO range, more worried about STAYING in range, in order to keep people in your effective blaster-range you'll have to use dual webs... yay?
chiefyuk Amarr The Doctrine	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:33:00 - [14] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: verde bandit Only 7.5km scrambler do disable MWD's... By the time you eat a 7.5k point you already have a high speed and I don't think there'll be any problem crawling up to blasters' optimal range. LOL. It's like all the non-blasterboat pilots are dumb as shit for some reason. ALL 2 point scrams will kill MWDs. This means 9km T2 scrams, and 15km faction scrams. Please unf#ck yourself and get this through your head. There will be no such thing as 'only' a 7.5km scram in PVP. It will always be a minimum of 9km range. So you want blasterships to be immune? Im small gang/solo pvp how many people will fit a 9km scram? ------------------------------------------------ You can kill the protester but you cant kill the protest ------------------------------------------------
chiefyuk Amarr The Doctrine	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:34:00 - [15] Originally by: Terraform I'm not so worried about getting INTO range, more worried about STAYING in range, in order to keep people in your effective blaster-range you'll have to use dual webs... yay? Pulse lasers > blaster right ;) ------------------------------------------------ You can kill the protester but you cant kill the protest ------------------------------------------------
Mag's MASS	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Terraform I'm not so worried about getting INTO range, more worried about STAYING in range, in order to keep people in your effective blaster-range you'll have to use dual webs... yay? Duel webs and no cap booster? How long will you last in that Mega? Mag's Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:35:00 - [17] Originally by: NeoTheo i dont see how anyone is thinking the change will be a bad thing for the TRUE blasterboats. how many people here nano a demios for example? the answer SHOULD BE next to none, because the ship is awful nano's. with speeds going down accross the board this will be a good change for blasterboats, the main issue being of course that nano fibers will now stack nerf with overdrives and also agility mods. none of witch you fit to your current true blasterboat. so in short everyone else will slow down a lot, you will slow down a little, and in the case of the rax and demois both are designed to run a MWD, if someone scrams me, they are almost in range anyhow. /Theo. Because the only blaster boats out there are the Rax and Deimos. It's like 98% of the Eve population doesn't know that ships larger than cruisers exist. IGNORE the concept of the Deimos and Thorax. Think about the Brutix, the Astarte, the Megathron and the Hyperion. All will be crippled with the upcoming patch as put forth by the dev blog. Even the simple reduction in MWD performance will hurt them significantly due to the massive increase in cap use to travel the same distance between targets. It's going to suck ass. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Elhina Novae Amarr Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:36:00 - [18] Sure something like 10% to the speed multiplier to an AB / level of the ship. Would still require people for example, Megathron too level 5 to get max effect? ------------ Somebody set up us the bomb
chiefyuk Amarr The Doctrine	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Mag's Originally by: Terraform I'm not so worried about getting INTO range, more worried about STAYING in range, in order to keep people in your effective blaster-range you'll have to use dual webs... yay? Duel webs and no cap booster? How long will you last in that Mega? OH NO YOU HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE WITH YOUR FITTING!!1!!!111ONEONEOENE!11!!!! Please fly amarr or minmatar before you start *****ing. ------------------------------------------------ You can kill the protester but you cant kill the protest ------------------------------------------------
Mag's MASS	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:38:00 - [20] Edited by: Mag''s on 27/07/2008 11:38:46 Originally by: chiefyuk OH NO YOU HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE WITH YOUR FITTING!!1!!!111ONEONEOENE!11!!!! Please fly amarr or minmatar before you start ***ing. I fly all three, thanks, each race has great ships and not so great. But your lack of understanding regarding the Blasterthron shines though. Thanks again, you made me lol. Edit: spelling. Mag's Originally by:** Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you.
chiefyuk Amarr The Doctrine	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:39:00 - [21] Originally by: Mag's Originally by: chiefyuk OH NO YOU HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE WITH YOUR FITTING!!1!!!111ONEONEOENE!11!!!! Please fly amarr or minmatar before you start *****ing. I fly all three, thanks each race has great ships and not so great. But your lack of understanding regarding the Blasterthron shines though. Thankxs again, you made me lol. ------------------------------------------------ You can kill the protester but you cant kill the protest ------------------------------------------------
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:39:00 - [22] Originally by: chiefyuk Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: verde bandit Only 7.5km scrambler do disable MWD's... By the time you eat a 7.5k point you already have a high speed and I don't think there'll be any problem crawling up to blasters' optimal range. LOL. It's like all the non-blasterboat pilots are dumb as shit for some reason. ALL 2 point scrams will kill MWDs. This means 9km T2 scrams, and 15km faction scrams. Please unf#ck yourself and get this through your head. There will be no such thing as 'only' a 7.5km scram in PVP. It will always be a minimum of 9km range. So you want blasterships to be immune? Im small gang/solo pvp how many people will fit a 9km scram? Quick list of ships that could fit a 24km and 9km scram just fine: Tempest, Ishtar, Myrmidon, Sacrilige, ANY HIC, Typhoon, Dominix, Scorpion, Raven, Rokh, Maelstrom, Claw, Malediction, Arbitrator, Curse, Pilgrim, Arazu and Lachesis of course, blah blah blah. It will be very easy to use both. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:40:00 - [23] Originally by: Elhina Novae Sure something like 10% to the speed multiplier to an AB / level of the ship. Would still require people for example, Megathron too level 5 to get max effect? You mean there are BS blaster pilots out there that don't have BS5? OMG. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Mag's MASS	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:41:00 - [24] Originally by: chiefyuk wow, you got me there. Great comeback. Mag's Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:42:00 - [25] Originally by: chiefyuk Originally by: Mag's Originally by: Terraform I'm not so worried about getting INTO range, more worried about STAYING in range, in order to keep people in your effective blaster-range you'll have to use dual webs... yay? Duel webs and no cap booster? How long will you last in that Mega? OH NO YOU HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE WITH YOUR FITTING!!1!!!111ONEONEOENE!11!!!! Please fly amarr or minmatar before you start ****ing. I've never had to compromise my fittings for any reason when I fly my Minmatar or Amarr ships. Fail more? Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.*
Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:43:00 - [26] im quite worried about my blasterthron. new scrams can shut down mwd... and webs are much weaker = me not able to keep stuff in place to be able to acctually hit it. ---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7 Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
NeoTheo Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.07.27 11:46:00 - [27] with regards to the webthing, i dont see this being much different. perviously this is how it would go down, 2 ships MWD'ing in this case we will use my Mega, and its Prey a raven that as is mandatory thesedays fits a MWD. today here is what happens; mega gets in range somehow, the max mwd speed of the mega is 1200m/s mwd;in and the raven 1100 mwd;in. you hit the raven for a 90% web/and a scram. this cuts the ravens speed to around 110 mps. you shoot. someone goes pop. note the ravens mwd remains on as long as it possibly can as he is hoping to get out of webrange. with the change, same deal, but you hit the for a scram, and the web, scram cutts the 1100mps to around 140 mps, then a 50% web hits it for half of that, and your around 70mps. in effect your better off than you where before. the only thing that makes this interesting is if the raven fits a afterburner instead of a mwd. raven would be cut from 279mps, to 140 meaning your only a little worse off that you had been previously.. do i fail at math or is that just how its going to go down? in otherwords, nothing to see here, change fix'es the nano problem and does not hurt blasterboats. (PS, i fly to lvl 5 gal hacs and gal BS), so hopefully i wont be gutted when the change comes thru. Neotheo Dark Materials Linkage
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.27 12:03:00 - [28] There are not too many Blasterboats in the game. Whining about that the changes of MWD and Webifiers is going to kill all Blasterboats is hypocritical to the extreme. Because Nanosetups already made Blasterships useless. To be effective any Blasterships needs to get quits close to it's target and stay there long enough for a kill. Nowadays you can only kill the very unlucky or the very stupid Nano*s with a Blastership. Sure reducing the effectiveness of Webifiers and allowing Scramblers to deactivate MWD's will not make it easier, but it is still doable. Perhaps even with fitting both MWD and AB. A real Blasterboat needs the MWD only to get into range, not for moving in and out of range at will. The changes will cripple Nano*s and they were what killed Blasterships in the first place.
Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.07.27 12:12:00 - [29] Originally by: NeoTheo with regards to the webthing, i dont see this being much different. perviously this is how it would go down, 2 ships MWD'ing in this case we will use my Mega, and its Prey a raven that as is mandatory thesedays fits a MWD. today here is what happens; mega gets in range somehow, the max mwd speed of the mega is 1200m/s mwd;in and the raven 1100 mwd;in. you hit the raven for a 90% web/and a scram. this cuts the ravens speed to around 110 mps. you shoot. someone goes pop. note the ravens mwd remains on as long as it possibly can as he is hoping to get out of webrange. with the change, same deal, but you hit the for a scram, and the web, scram cutts the 1100mps to around 140 mps, then a 50% web hits it for half of that, and your around 70mps. in effect your better off than you where before. in this case the raven warps out when you reach about 15km away from it you cant drop mwd from mega... you cant drop disruptor (or they just warp the ** off before you even close to in range) you cant drop injector.... or you will be out of cap very soon you cant drop web or you just cant hit anything at all. vindicator could fit a scram in 5th mid and then it would work ---------------------------------- Fighting for Minmatar o7** Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
Stab Wounds Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.07.27 12:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: verde bandit Only 7.5km scrambler do disable MWD's... By the time you eat a 7.5k point you already have a high speed and I don't think there'll be any problem crawling up to blasters' optimal range. LOL. It's like all the non-blasterboat pilots are dumb as shit for some reason. ALL 2 point scrams will kill MWDs. This means 9km T2 scrams, and 15km faction scrams. Please unf#ck yourself and get this through your head. There will be no such thing as 'only' a 7.5km scram in PVP. It will always be a minimum of 9km range. wow you are really arrogant and have no clue
Mr Ignitious Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.27 15:02:00 - [31] Originally by: Riho im quite worried about my blasterthron. new scrams can shut down mwd... and webs are much weaker = me not able to keep stuff in place to be able to acctually hit it. that is the problem. If said bs/bc mwd gets shut off it will be grotesquely slow and its victims will be able to crawl out of web range with relative ease. This is the serious problem, more than the scram turning off mwds.
Spartan dax We are Legend	Posted - 2008.07.27 16:17:00 - [32] Originally by: Mr Ignitious Originally by: Riho im quite worried about my blasterthron. new scrams can shut down mwd... and webs are much weaker = me not able to keep stuff in place to be able to acctually hit it. that is the problem. If said bs/bc mwd gets shut off it will be grotesquely slow and its victims will be able to crawl out of web range with relative ease. This is the serious problem, more than the scram turning off mwds. Well when they crawl out of web range the MWD kicks back on won't it? And the scrammer will have lost it's point as well so the Mega can just choose to disengage and warp away. The amount of different scenarios and shipfittings with these new suggestions have me intrigued. Hell, the Pilgrim just got un-nerfed big time!
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.07.27 18:17:00 - [33] Originally by: Ash Bringer And what is more damaging than a blaster boat A torp raven and it doesn't have to get in range. -- Coming to you, Assault Ships fix, by the people saying that the Gallente Recons are fine.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.27 18:27:00 - [34] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 27/07/2008 18:28:42 Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Ash Bringer And what is more damaging than a blaster boat A torp raven and it doesn't have to get in range. Torp ravens aren't more damaging, nor do they have a better tank. However they only need to be at 20-24km to spew 1200 DPS. edit: too many post's with unnecessary apostrophe's has me putting them in too many word's.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.07.27 18:28:00 - [35] Originally by: Mr Ignitious If said bs/bc mwd gets shut off it will be grotesquely slow You mean, like, when they get hit with a 90% webber? This is better for Blaster boats as it encourages more ships to fly inside webrange; the only major downside is you'll no longer be able to track webbed frigs with a Mega Maybe Webber Drones are going to make a comeback? ...
Helfix Caldari Rage For Order Nihil-Obstat	Posted - 2008.07.27 18:40:00 - [36] If you ppl are so worried about getting in range yata yata yata... Then bring a friend along to tackle for ya... I mean really... That's what you been saying to us Caldari for like what???? Forever lulz... So now you get to bring a friend along just like us Caldari. O yes, would you like more cheese with em nice whines....??? -Helfix
Taco Raptorian	Posted - 2008.07.28 07:32:00 - [37] The mwd on blaster boats have never felt right, well maybe on a Thorax. Bonus to ab is a great idea and comes in harmony with the high cap-cost of blasters because it doesn't gimp your cap.
ZW Dewitt	Posted - 2008.07.28 07:41:00 - [38] Originally by: Riho in this case the raven warps out when you reach about 15km away from it you cant drop mwd from mega... you cant drop disruptor (or they just warp the **** off before you even close to in range) you cant drop injector.... or you will be out of cap very soon you cant drop web or you just cant hit anything at all. vindicator could fit a scram in 5th mid and then it would work Soloing in a BS shouldn't be easy. Fly something smaller or bring a friend to tackle.
MenanceWhite Amarr Red Light Navy	Posted - 2008.07.28 08:02:00 - [39] I don't understand what's so good about ABs even if blasterships got boniis with them. I mean heck, AB = extra mass. Your ABing mega most probably won't be able to slow down in time with MWD, which means that you're most probably just going to bump your target out of blaster range again. --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
Miss KillSome Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.07.28 08:30:00 - [40] tbh, CCP will just change required mid slots for PvP to: mwd, scram, distruptor, web, cap injector. If u miss one of those, specially on some big BS or BC, u cannot catch anything anymore.. Without mwd u are dead anyway to gate camps or BSs using MWDs to kite u at 10km. Without scram your web is not effective enough to keep someone at web range (if u are not faster then target and if target maybe has scram.) Without distruptor, target warps away. Without web, u wont catch anything at all. Without cap injector u are dead anyway unless u are passive drake.
Yo Mommy Gallente	Posted - 2008.07.28 09:02:00 - [41] Originally by: NeoTheo if someone scrams me, they are almost in range anyhow. /Theo. What I have been saying!
Gladiator Jonny Omniscient Order Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.28 10:36:00 - [42] I hate to say it but for the majority i agree with belleum Im a virtually max skilled blaster pilots and recently have been considering to myself, other than the ability to solo why fly a megathron over raven/geddon. These changes doesnt mean that blaster boats will be useless as for a large amount of fights you will easily get into range. With the nice new change to webs however i think duel webs are going to be needed on most blasterships. looks for slots Looks like the hyperion might be usefull. Its the smaller blaster boats which recieve more of my worries though, 9km (standard) can shut down their mwd. Timed correctley this will leave many ships (depending on fit) on the edge of their falloff. Another comedy scenario is a 9k disruptor on a range boosting ceptor pinning down a blasterboat while something with similar dps just takes it out from longer range. This patch is going to change many things. But my alt uses missiles so Muhaha!! ill keep an eye on this thread
Snow Banshee	Posted - 2008.07.28 11:04:00 - [43] Edited by: Snow Banshee on 28/07/2008 11:06:23 why people continue to state that only 7,5km scramble affect them... t2 web in a intie ( bonus on scramble range ) with overload will give: 9km * 1.25 1.30 = 14,625 km* With those changes a blasterboat will be just a prey for any intie since will be able to make sit them even without a webber. The new rules will be: "use an intie to stop their mwd" and shot them from 20km. Once the intie needed mwd+ web, but now its not needed anymore, a single scrabler will be sufficient. How can people dont call this a blastership nerf? And the webber nerf will not help them either ... Im not telling i dont like the change, just that those changed will need some work for close range ships.
Kern Hotha	Posted - 2008.07.28 11:23:00 - [44] So, in a Megathron: - Top speed reduced - MWD able to be deactivated by enemy - Webifier much less effective - No increase to blaster tracking or damage mentioned This seems like a pretty bad situation, but what do I know.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.28 11:33:00 - [45] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/07/2008 11:33:07 Originally by: Kern Hotha So, in a Megathron: - Top speed reduced For all other battleships too. It doesn't change relative battleship balance. Originally by: Kern Hotha - MWD able to be deactivated by enemy At 9km, and with a 60% web on you, inertia will carry you where? Furthermore, blasterthrons shoot just fine all the way up to disruptor range with Null if they choose to, and shoot very well up to 9km anywy. Originally by: Kern Hotha - Webifier much less effective It's much less effective for all other ships too, so relative balance between battleships doesn't change really. 90% webs were always horribly overpowered modules. Imagine how it hurts the other battleships which track worse then a Megathron. Originally by: Kern Hotha - No increase to blaster tracking or damage mentioned Blasters on a Megathron are the BEST TRACKING BATTLESHIP WEAPON SYSTEM IN THE BLOODY GAME. Stop whining. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.07.28 11:36:00 - [46] Preaty mutch time to get a good stock on Null guyes. Actualy well I personaly like what i see. Slower Targets benefits Blaster Ships very good in any given combat scenario. I would call it a good thing for the BS for shure. If something want¦s to shut down the MWD it has to enter Web range(expept a Ceptor and Lachesis/Arazu). Even if the Blasters should have problems to track a fast Ceptor/Frig, when its webbed it gets eaten by Drones without any mutch Problems. Also the Scrambler now packs effective 2 Mods(a low range Point and a Web since the target can¦t MWD out of Range). ABs might get a comback at Frigs or even Cruisers in some setups. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.07.28 11:52:00 - [47] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: chiefyuk Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: verde bandit Only 7.5km scrambler do disable MWD's... By the time you eat a 7.5k point you already have a high speed and I don't think there'll be any problem crawling up to blasters' optimal range. LOL. It's like all the non-blasterboat pilots are dumb as shit for some reason. ALL 2 point scrams will kill MWDs. This means 9km T2 scrams, and 15km faction scrams. Please unf#ck yourself and get this through your head. There will be no such thing as 'only' a 7.5km scram in PVP. It will always be a minimum of 9km range. So you want blasterships to be immune? Im small gang/solo pvp how many people will fit a 9km scram? Quick list of ships that could fit a 24km and 9km scram just fine: Tempest, Ishtar, Myrmidon, Sacrilige, ANY HIC, Typhoon, Dominix, Scorpion, Raven, Rokh, Maelstrom, Claw, Malediction, Arbitrator, Curse, Pilgrim, Arazu and Lachesis of course, blah blah blah. It will be very easy to use both. And today all those ships can use a disruptor and a web, to the exact same effect... ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Gladiator Jonny Omniscient Order Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.28 12:01:00 - [48] just for your information. Blasters, designed to be the higest damage weapons in game should not have to load long range ammo just so they can compete. With null loaded far more ships do much more dps and a much better tank. I must admit i like the AB idea, but i also agree people are panicking alittle too much. The megathron has been outclassed for gang damage work before this, all this is doing is removing its solo ability and lowering the usefull ability it still has in gangs.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.28 12:13:00 - [49] Originally by: Gladiator Jonny just for your information. Blasters, designed to be the higest damage weapons in game should not have to load long range ammo just so they can compete. You mean, just to compete at someone else's game? Because firing at range is someone else's game, and Neutron blasters still do this better then Minmatar guns. Originally by: Gladiator Jonny With null loaded far more ships do much more dps and a much better tank. Yeah, Amarr (which are not going to fit speed mod + web + 9km point except on one BS maybe, and then they limit their engagement range to 9km lol, and definitely won't fit speed mod + web + 9km point + 24km point ever on any BS) do better at range, but solo can't really dig it. Minmatar only the Typhoon might do the trick; the Tempest is weaker all the way up to disruptor range (and if fitting a TD, it's not fitting a 9km point; if fitting 9km point and TD, then just warpoff and LOL); the Maelstorm is a shield-tank anyway. So, yeah, you're worse then Ravens now if you land out of range, and better if you land on top (as their flimsy eff HP with full tackle won't buy them enough time to live). Considering both are Tier 2 BS, that sounds almost balanced. Shocking. Originally by: Gladiator Jonny The megathron has been outclassed for gang damage work before this, all this is doing is removing its solo ability and lowering the usefull ability it still has in gangs. It's still very good for gang work (compare it to a Tempest if you like; not every ship is as good as a torp raven for gang work) and one of the better solo ships as well. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:00:00 - [50] Originally by: Cpt Branko So, yeah, you're worse then Ravens now if you land out of range, and better if you land on top (as their flimsy eff HP with full tackle won't buy them enough time to live). Considering both are Tier 2 BS, that sounds almost balanced. Shocking. Usually you have very insightful posts, but here I think you haven't done the numbers... If the webs are changed to 60% max, Mega doesn't have a prayer in any case. Either the Raven is out of Mega's optimal range and Mega dies before it can close to use its whopping 5% close-range damage advantage, or Raven gets to 500m orbit around Mega and Mega loses quite a lot of its gun damage even if Raven is webbed and Mega tries to minimise the transversal - much more than its non-existent DoT/armor advantage would allow for it to compete. Numbers: Fully-trimarked Mega with 21600mm plate, DC2, EANM2, Centii-C Adaptive Nano Plating, 2MFS2, 5Ogre2, Neutron2s with faction AM: 1148 DPS (1273 DPS overloaded), 120k EHP (105k EHP against pure explosive damage) Fully-shield-rigged Raven with DC2, 2invu2, LSE2, T2 torps w/faction ammo, 2425mm AC, 2large TP drone, rest damage drones: 1100 DPS (1267 DPS with torps overloaded), 97k EHP (108k EHP overloaded) If Raven drops a web for another LSE2, it gets to 113k EHP (126k EHP overloaded). Summa summarum: Torp Ravens are quite OP already now; if the changes go in as listed, Megas won't be able to kill even the smaller ships any more effectively than Ravens => Mega will be worse than Raven in all cases. Plus of course Mega can be tracking disrupted. And yes, Tempest is even worse off. Whee. -- Gradient forum
Frankinator Ascent of Ages Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:24:00 - [51] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Quick list of ships that could fit a 24km and 9km scram just fine: Tempest, Ishtar, Myrmidon, Sacrilige, ANY HIC, Typhoon, Dominix, Scorpion, Raven, Rokh, Maelstrom, Claw, Malediction, Arbitrator, Curse, Pilgrim, Arazu and Lachesis of course, blah blah blah. It will be very easy to use both. I dont agree at all with the Raven being in that list. Fitting 1 warp disruptor is hard enough whilst trying to maintain a semi-decent tank, fitting 2 is not possible. Unless of course the list you just wrote is a "hypothetically because these ships have enough midslots" kinda list, but then the Megathron would be on it aswell.
El Yatta Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:48:00 - [52] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: verde bandit Only 7.5km scrambler do disable MWD's... By the time you eat a 7.5k point you already have a high speed and I don't think there'll be any problem crawling up to blasters' optimal range. LOL. It's like all the non-blasterboat pilots are dumb as shit for some reason. ALL 2 point scrams will kill MWDs. This means 9km T2 scrams, and 15km faction scrams. Please unf#ck yourself and get this through your head. There will be no such thing as 'only' a 7.5km scram in PVP. It will always be a minimum of 9km range. As a blasterthron pilot, I agree, in general. But there are no such things as 15km faction scrams. You are thinking of webifiers. I know its easy to get confused when you get so angry, Bellum. Domination scrams are 11km, always have been. They are now over 100m on contract, so they're not going to be standard fit. 9km, 18km on an arazu are the numbers that are to be used. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.28 13:49:00 - [53] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/07/2008 13:51:27 Originally by: Theron Gyrow Numbers: Fully-trimarked Mega with 21600mm plate, DC2, EANM2, Centii-C Adaptive Nano Plating, 2MFS2, 5Ogre2, Neutron2s with faction AM: 1148 DPS (1273 DPS overloaded), 120k EHP (105k EHP against pure explosive damage) Fully-shield-rigged Raven with DC2, 2invu2, LSE2, T2 torps w/faction ammo, 2425mm AC, 2large TP drone, rest damage drones: 1100 DPS (1267 DPS with torps overloaded), 97k EHP (108k EHP overloaded) Sorry, am at work so no EFT. Well, the actual numbers give Raven better odds then I suspected (I sortof forgot about overheating invulns ), although from that it could go both ways from there. The (small, unless the Raven is AB + scram +web fit which is a specific fit anyway and mega could be doing the same) amount of transversal-related misses are most likely going to reduce its DPS a bit so they'll be about equal there. How much EHP does the Raven have vs CN AM? Anyway, in this case, it changed (didn't even change it much if your numbers are correct tbh, they give Ravens goods odds of killing the Mega as it is) the relative balance of a Mega and one BS in a solo scenario, the sky isn't falling. *Naturally, the Megathron pilot does have the option of boosting his eff HP with implants, but it's beyond the scope of the discussion really. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Gladiator Jonny Omniscient Order Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.28 14:25:00 - [54] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Gladiator Jonny just for your information. Blasters, designed to be the higest damage weapons in game should not have to load long range ammo just so they can compete. You mean, just to compete at someone else's game? Because firing at range is someone else's game, and Neutron blasters still do this better then Minmatar guns. Originally by: Gladiator Jonny With null loaded far more ships do much more dps and a much better tank. Yeah, Amarr (which are not going to fit speed mod + web + 9km point except on one BS maybe, and then they limit their engagement range to 9km lol, and definitely won't fit speed mod + web + 9km point + 24km point ever on any BS) do better at range, but solo can't really dig it. Minmatar only the Typhoon might do the trick; the Tempest is weaker all the way up to disruptor range (and if fitting a TD, it's not fitting a 9km point; if fitting 9km point and TD, then just warpoff and LOL); the Maelstorm is a shield-tank anyway. So, yeah, you're worse then Ravens now if you land out of range, and better if you land on top (as their flimsy eff HP with full tackle won't buy them enough time to live). Considering both are Tier 2 BS, that sounds almost balanced. Shocking. Originally by: Gladiator Jonny The megathron has been outclassed for gang damage work before this, all this is doing is removing its solo ability and lowering the usefull ability it still has in gangs. It's still very good for gang work (compare it to a Tempest if you like; not every ship is as good as a torp raven for gang work) and one of the better solo ships as well. Comparing something that will be less usefull like gallente to something which is useless like minmatar is comedy. try reply to my post not using minmatar. Firing range. Geddon + Raven do similar/more dps than a mega from a greater distance. They dont need speed luckily. Geddons dont fly with webs on a geddon generally. yes, their not good solo ships but with the recent changes is anyone going to be solo? We know by far minmatar is broken. Lets not do it to gallente mmmkay?
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.07.30 12:22:00 - [55] Originally by: Cpt Branko How much EHP does the Raven have vs CN AM? With the actual Mega damage distribution (Ogre IIs and CN AM), 98.5k EHP regular, 109.5k EHP overloaded. And yes, the total superiority of the Raven over Bthron even at the best-case situation for Bthron isn't new, it's just that now Blasterthron loses the only niche it had - killing webbed cruisers at 5 km range. -- Gradient forum

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