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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Lacco
Expedition and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.07.29 08:23:00 -
[1]
Hey, I'm bloody tired of being roaming around 0.0 and getting spotted in local chat. Those ratters whoever shouldnt get free intel of my presence by just watching local count. Currently, everyone just warp out of the belts or log off when they are endangered.
Removing local has the equal nerf to PVPrs and PVErs, since both of them would have to relay on scan results, and therefore everyone would have to work for the intel, not to get it for free.
I'm on TV! I'm famous! |
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
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Posted - 2008.07.29 08:29:00 -
[2]
So long as (a) windows are built into the hulls of stations, and (b) scans are automated complete with a ping every time a new target entered scan range, this would be fine. Otherwise, I see no reason to force players to wear out their mouse buttons by hitting the scan button every two seconds whenever in space.
-- Becq Starforged Ushra'Khan
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
Boma Airaken
Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2008.07.29 08:35:00 -
[3]
This idea is crap.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.29 08:43:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 29/07/2008 08:44:03 The result of this idea on the long run is a 0.0 even more empty that it is right now. That won't give you any more targets to shoot at. No support from me. ------------------------------------------
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Lacco
Expedition and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.07.29 08:58:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Shadowsword Edited by: Shadowsword on 29/07/2008 08:44:03 The result of this idea on the long run is a 0.0 even more empty that it is right now. That won't give you any more targets to shoot at. No support from me.
the number of targets is not the point, but the issue that those potential targets are not reachable currently. They can just **** off if they have the brain to warp out. Is that complitely alright with you? Do you think they earned the intel? I'm on TV! I'm famous! |
cianide pro
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Posted - 2008.07.29 09:07:00 -
[6]
Dont like the idea but it gave me an idea for a new region where this non-local chat could be created.
A region where no one shows up in local till they talk in there, no numbers of members in space are shown, systems that cant be owned, no stations, no pos systems can be placed.
Where the belt rats can come in frigs or in dreads ( all race type rats) where you can find all the riches in ores, good scannable complexes so a region with high risk and reward, a real wild wild west region
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Halsoy
Gallente Shade.
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Posted - 2008.07.29 09:12:00 -
[7]
The only reason you know that the current ship you are about to scan down is actually a player is because you see him/them in local too. Have you earned that intel? If local was not up, you might see 1000 ravens, all with different players name, oh, and a Force Shield if you have that on your scanner. So you have to move around, yes, hit, omfg, new Force Field.
By jumping in to a system, you get free intel on how many ships there are possibly ratting there, and therefore can exclude sertain ships/areas where ships are and find him easier. You get the same, if not more intel by local.
Scanning would be a nightmare simply because a simple sollution for them to counter your no local plan is to drop 200 frigs in space, or shuttles even, next to every celestial in space. Good luck finding anything.
Besides, people that doesn't watch local you catch anyway, we do it all the time. There is a few really smart and quick reacting characters out there, and those you will never catch, as they rat in such a way that even if you pop up right next to them they get away.
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Damned Force
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.07.29 09:21:00 -
[8]
[ISSUE] Remove peoples who wants to remove local
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Lacco
Expedition and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.07.29 09:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Halsoy The only reason you know that the current ship you are about to scan down is actually a player is because you see him/them in local too. Have you earned that intel? If local was not up, you might see 1000 ravens, all with different players name, oh, and a Force Shield if you have that on your scanner. So you have to move around, yes, hit, omfg, new Force Field.
By jumping in to a system, you get free intel on how many ships there are possibly ratting there, and therefore can exclude sertain ships/areas where ships are and find him easier. You get the same, if not more intel by local.
Scanning would be a nightmare simply because a simple sollution for them to counter your no local plan is to drop 200 frigs in space, or shuttles even, next to every celestial in space. Good luck finding anything.
Besides, people that doesn't watch local you catch anyway, we do it all the time. There is a few really smart and quick reacting characters out there, and those you will never catch, as they rat in such a way that even if you pop up right next to them they get away.
Well, it takes skills to scan for ships in belts or planets. What you say about using ejected ships as beacons is already being used by many and the only way you can know wether its a killable target, or just a ship at pos, is to scan the directions to know if its at belts or not. This tactic can be already used, and many ratting alliance have set their posses up with assload of ships to make the scanning more difficult, but your scanning skills matter to make sure if they are at the pos or not.. not the count in local. The local count helps to make logical assumptions about present ships, but as I said it would be hard for the PVErs and PVPrs both to map the situation of each solar system with out local, so I would concider it a fair nerf.
If you are roaming same systems all over again you would get to know which of the ships in scanner are just beacons and which not. At least from my experiences if I run the same route for 3rd time, I already know most of the systems POS ships and I don't have to waiste my time trying to figure out if they are piloted or not. It takes time to get know new places, the habits of the people in the new places, and alot of skill in scanning. I have been practising scanning for over an year now, and I do get the results of a ratting battleship within 10-15 seconds most of the time. Then add the time it takes to warp to the target and all possible lag, the final time it takes to arrive to your target is somewhere around 20 seconds minimum up to 45seconds. In this time every battleship can warp out, and those who didn't look at local will do it next time. I'm on TV! I'm famous! |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.07.29 12:26:00 -
[10]
Genius notion...
Make Local a "Recent Speakers" channel instead of an "Immediate" channel.
Then no one has a clue who is out and about, unless they happen to speak. Which most spies shouldn't be too chatty, if they are smart. --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
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Ruze
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.29 13:17:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ruze on 29/07/2008 13:17:49 Local as an intel tool is flawed. It's too easy, it's too simplified, it's perfect and cannot be countered, and it ruins small unit warfare.
Fights happen at gatecamps or stationcamps, because there is no other way to come upon a target, without being exceptionally lucky.
Like every other point of the game, gathering intel on who is in the system around you should be an active task. Local and map intelligence, though, is free and simply too powerful.
I know the arguments: it'll ruin the game. But that isn't true, and even deep down, you know it. It'll take away a cruicial tool that players are exploiting, true, but even I won't agree with removing the tool and not giving players some way to replace it.
A local scanner with ping is perfectly useful. Maybe powerful enough to scan your grid. That way, someone can get in system and warp to you, and you don't have a couple minutes headstart in warping to your safespot or throwing the cloak.
I fully support this. Local is an exploit that we have been required to use for far too long. I think it's time CCP fixed it.
Genesis Project |
Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.29 13:20:00 -
[12]
Also, I don't believe in removing local or statistics from low and high-sec systems. Just 0.0. Give the players modules and anchorable objects to replace it, but not nearly as all-encompasing. I mean, why can a corporation see everything that's happening in their enemies systems, from twenty jumps away? Just seems lazy to me.
Genesis Project |
Sir Substance
Minmatar Sunspot Requisitions Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.07.29 13:23:00 -
[13]
oh jesus, here we go again. - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
Big Al
Stoat's Ultimate Carebear Adventure
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Posted - 2008.07.29 13:31:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Big Al on 29/07/2008 13:33:27 Supported, gonna need it with these changes if you actually want a reward/risk ratio in 0.0, obviously you will need some sort of tool that shows you numbers in space for an area, or on a delay since 0.0 is mostly empty.
Instant, free intel for anyone paying attention to a little window is not the way to go though. Even a 30s delay on local updating would do it.
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Blind Molechild
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Posted - 2008.07.29 13:45:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Blind Molechild on 29/07/2008 13:48:00
Originally by: Halsoy The only reason you know that the current ship you are about to scan down is actually a player is because you see him/them in local too. Have you earned that intel? If local was not up, you might see 1000 ravens, all with different players name, oh, and a Force Shield if you have that on your scanner. So you have to move around, yes, hit, omfg, new Force Field.
By jumping in to a system, you get free intel on how many ships there are possibly ratting there, and therefore can exclude sertain ships/areas where ships are and find him easier. You get the same, if not more intel by local.
Scanning would be a nightmare simply because a simple sollution for them to counter your no local plan is to drop 200 frigs in space, or shuttles even, next to every celestial in space. Good luck finding anything.
Besides, people that doesn't watch local you catch anyway, we do it all the time. There is a few really smart and quick reacting characters out there, and those you will never catch, as they rat in such a way that even if you pop up right next to them they get away.
you know theres something called probes, duh. you can easily see if ships are stashed in a pos. even better drop 100 cruisers in system, i'll probe them out in one scan, and just collect & sell. scanning / probing system would need some tweaks tho.
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Belatu Cadro
Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.07.29 14:02:00 -
[16]
If you want to play without local then do so, simply minimize it, let us know how that works out for you.
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Jallem Sims
Quantum Warriors
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Posted - 2008.07.29 14:08:00 -
[17]
needs sorting, more so now speed ships that are about warping quick are going down the tube!
scan results = ONLY SHIPS WITH PODS IN (x)
it will require you to actually do some work when ratting/mining tbh. If the are 2 of you, one can keep an eye on the gates while the other rats. Hey, might even require the ratters to 'defend themselves'. people will work together more, ratting in teams etc...
anyway, what its worth.... i am for the idea.
However think it should be a constilation channel. if you have a cycle of 10mins, then it makes sense the gates are recording your movements knowing you have entered and left the area recently. as well as highlighting your actually in the system due to jumping through the gate.
then you could introduce hacking gates.... knowing your hostile has recently left, you can hack gate intel to know if he left via that gate or not. |
Fahtim Meidires
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.29 15:13:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Fahtim Meidires on 29/07/2008 15:13:59 Agreed, but there needs to be some way to gather Intel on star gate usage.
This http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=823580 talks about how in 0.0 space the entity that holds sovereignty of a system would be able to access intel on stargate usage (logs for example).
Empire should have local intel as stargates are controlled by concord. There really isn't an eve-universe reason to have an arbitrary mandatory system-wide chat channel outside of concord control (whereas such a system could be enforced in empire).
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.07.29 15:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lacco
Originally by: Shadowsword Edited by: Shadowsword on 29/07/2008 08:44:03 The result of this idea on the long run is a 0.0 even more empty that it is right now. That won't give you any more targets to shoot at. No support from me.
the number of targets is not the point, but the issue that those potential targets are not reachable currently. They can just **** off if they have the brain to warp out. Is that complitely alright with you? Do you think they earned the intel?
Causing an exodus form 0.0 to empire may not be your goal, but that's what will happen with local gone.
Earning the intel isn't what matter, tought you might say paying attention to local is earning that intel. What matter is what for a ratter, refreshing the scanner every 2 seconds is for too tedious to be viable.
I'm all for nerfing macro-farmers, but it must be done by affecting their cloaks, the delog timer, or maybe the align time. Not local. You can remove local as an intel tool when it's replaced by a passive, reliable proximity intel tool. ------------------------------------------
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TheMailman
GreenSwarm Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.01 09:39:00 -
[20]
Edited by: TheMailman on 01/08/2008 09:40:45 New ideas are the best... too bad this is not a new idea. [thumbs down]
Nerfing local somehow, yes please, but since there are no many ways to do it (like remove it completely, or just leave it there), its better to be kept as it currently is. |
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Carrier Eleven
Gallente EVE Posting Service
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Posted - 2008.08.01 11:12:00 -
[21]
Pirate ganker types have been moaning about local for years. Its been a BAD idea the whole time. Give it up already.
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subbz2k
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Posted - 2008.08.01 12:06:00 -
[22]
/signed what carrier eleven said.
ccp already gave you pirate ****ers the new militia system, so what do you want now? forget it! if you cannot get a ratter that simply uses its brain you just had bad luck! and thats it! live with it and search in the next system. and stop whining that you dont get targets ^^ other peoples do so it actually cant be the local
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.08.01 12:25:00 -
[23]
Local = Immediate Channel (Broken)
Local = Recent Speakers Channel (Fixed)
--- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Blind Molechild
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Posted - 2008.08.01 12:36:00 -
[24]
Originally by: subbz2k /signed what carrier eleven said.
ccp already gave you pirate ****ers the new militia system, so what do you want now? forget it! if you cannot get a ratter that simply uses its brain you just had bad luck! and thats it! live with it and search in the next system. and stop whining that you dont get targets ^^ other peoples do so it actually cant be the local
we can leave local in empire as it is, so you can safely carebear through there, lots of veld to be mined. NO RISK NO ISK how about that.YAAAAAAARRRR
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J'Mkarr Soban
Proxenetae Invicti
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Posted - 2008.08.01 12:44:00 -
[25]
Up for this, as always. -- These are my personal views and in no way represent the views of Proxenetae Invicti, which maintains a neutral stance stemming from the strong ethics demanded of its work. |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.08.01 12:58:00 -
[26]
Unless another means of gathering intelligence is implemented local channel needs to remain in the game. As soon as alternative means become available, I am all for reducing Local chat to grid/station range with only recent speakers showing up.
But with the one sided proposition of the op, I cannot agree. -------- Ideas for: Mining Ships |
soldieroffortune 258
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Posted - 2008.08.01 17:39:00 -
[27]
well your idea wouldnt work for 00 space anyway, because dont they have a system scanner in some pos's in alliance space?
that would put the alliance at an advantage, while putting the curious explorer at a diadvantage
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Diehard Si
UK1 Zero G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.08.01 17:49:00 -
[28]
Support
well, change it to delayed mode. Show how many in system, but not who they are unless they talk.
Too many isk farmers now have little programs etc when they set off an alarm to alert them everytime a hostile jumps in. Tehy hear it and warp and cloak.( i think this is still in effect )
Good fast scanning is a skill, and one of the few remaining skills that actual people can have left in the game. Make local delayed etc and people won't get warning who is in their space.
I mean 0.0 is supposed to be dangerous isn't it?
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MCHammerdad
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Posted - 2008.08.04 02:36:00 -
[29]
I agree with the op. 0.0 cloaking ravens are the scourge of eve, they can rat all day with next to 0 risk. local in 0.0 should be removed at all times unless you are next to a jump gate. After all jump gates should know how many people are in system and who they are.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.08.04 03:11:00 -
[30]
Always support these in principle.
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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