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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Rumai Ning
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Posted - 2008.08.04 03:52:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Lacco
Hey, I'm bloody tired of being roaming around 0.0 and getting spotted in local chat. Those ratters whoever shouldnt get free intel of my presence by just watching local count. Currently, everyone just warp out of the belts or log off when they are endangered.
Removing local has the equal nerf to PVPrs and PVErs, since both of them would have to relay on scan results, and therefore everyone would have to work for the intel, not to get it for free.
Let me think about it, no.
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Popoi
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.04 04:17:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Lacco
Removing local has the equal nerf to PVPrs and PVErs, since both of them would have to relay on scan results, and therefore everyone would have to work for the intel, not to get it for free..
You are incredibly delusional if you think this is true. Effective blindness gives a huge advantage to whoever is the most mobile. This is almost never going to be someone doing PVE. You can negate some of that advantage by seeing them on scan soon enough, but in that situation the PVE guy has to be scanning constantly, whereas the HAC gang that just jumped in system has to scan maybe twice.
You'd need to replace local with some other passive detection method, or buff 0.0 money making enough that it's worth either bringing a gang or losing ships a lot to keep ratting or mining viable.
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Tallai Reeca
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Posted - 2008.08.04 13:22:00 -
[33]
I strongly support this, most especially in low sec/0.0. Realism should be paramount in Eve, as it is basically an advanced combat/economy simulator. The free system-wide, error-free and instantaneous scanner that is local is completely unrealistic and eliminates a number of strategy and career options that would otherwise be viable.
As a reasonable compromise, maybe local should be retained in its current form only in high sec? It would make sense for concord and the sovereign empires to keep tabs on everyone entering and exiting their high sec system, and making this information publicly available.
Local is the game's biggest and most used exploit, as any covert ops pilot knows.
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Tal Nok
Digital assassins
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Posted - 2008.08.04 14:32:00 -
[34]
Local needs to be moved to Region. Should also only display personnel who talk in region chat, which after a while, they disappear much like Aliance chat.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Forum gods ANGRY.
Need sacrifice.
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Cyd Vicious
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Posted - 2008.08.04 14:40:00 -
[35]
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Matrixcvd
Caldari
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.08.04 15:55:00 -
[36]
1 minute delay entry into local chat
problem solved. If you can't find someone in that time, you shouldnt be afforded the luxury. You also shouldnt be afforded free intel.
Couple this with an auto updating scanner as many cycles as server can process
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Kala Veijo
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.04 16:21:00 -
[37]
Yes indeed.
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Aleus Stygian
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Posted - 2008.08.04 18:08:00 -
[38]
There should be limitations to the ability to detect incoming targets. To remove the local channel completely may be rather drastic, but if that's what it takes... I'd rather make it so that the communication/detection range is limited. Cloaked ships shouldn't show up on either scanners or in channel, of course.
The idea has my support though.
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Deldrac
Bat Country
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2008.08.04 18:24:00 -
[39]
Local needs to be replaced with some kind of alternative intelligence tool, but then I'm in favour in general terms.
Personally I like to see the local member list removed, and instead give everyone a scanner window showing ships in system detected.
Every N seconds each player gets an X% chance of detecting any active hull in system. Once detected, the hull appears as 'unknown' on the scanner list.
Every N seconds, you also have a Y% chance to identify the hull size (frigate/crusier/BS/Cap) and a Z% chance to identify the pilot name.
X, Y, and Z are affected by your sensor strength and the other ship's sig size.
Any pilot can hail the system at any time, doing so reveals your name and ship size to everyone in system.
Any ship coming onto the same grid as you or the same grid as a scan probe you own would also immeadiately reveal ship size and pilot name.
With a tool like this in its place, I'd support removal of local member lists.
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Virgo I'Platonicus
Ex Eventus Corpi
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Posted - 2008.08.04 18:32:00 -
[40]
Agree to the need to remove local channel the way it works. MAke ppl there seen only if they chat.
V.
<3 |
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TornSoul
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.08.05 01:40:00 -
[41]
Flat out removing local : No.
BIG Lottery |
Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.08.05 04:31:00 -
[42]
Originally by: TornSoul
Flat out removing local : No.
This. I am open to better ideas, but until I see one, I'd say that people need to learn how to work their way around the local issue. Whether it be alts or just being smarter than your enemy, it really isn't that hard (except for the cloaking raven ISK farmers, but let's face it, they will find another way).
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Latex Underwear
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Posted - 2008.08.05 04:59:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lacco
the number of targets is not the point, but the issue that those potential targets are not reachable currently. They can just **** off if they have the brain to warp out. Is that complitely alright with you? Do you think they earned the intel?
Well boy-genius, how are you going to find targets if they don't show in local? I don't know about you but when I'm roaming I don't want to have to drop scan probes in every bloody system I pass through to find something to shoot at.
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Toolbert
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.05 05:08:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Always support these in principle.
Yeah because you'll never be in 0.0 to use it!
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Grath Telkin
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.05 05:38:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 05/08/2008 05:39:09
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 05/08/2008 05:38:13
Originally by: Eternal
]This. I am open to better ideas, but until I see one, I'd say that people need to learn how to work their way around the local issue. Whether it be alts or just being smarter than your enemy, it really isn't that hard (except for the cloaking raven ISK farmers, but let's face it, they will find another way).
Thats the point though: THERE IS NO WAY TO WORK AROUND IT.
You appear in local a few seconds before you even try to load grid, hence BACON and its overwhelming gayness. By the time your in, and scanning, the ratters, macro, wtfever is already in warp to its SS or tower.
It then cloaks, logs off, or POS hugs for an eternity, until you go away.
Thats completely balanced and fair isn't it?...oh wait, its not.
If i needed to keep a cov ops on all roams i went on, so be it, whatever it takes to take the "I Win" button everybody is so fond of using out of 0.0. As it stands right now, you could have an army of 15 second scan cov ops with you and you will still rarely catch ratters or guys in 0.0 who have local open at all.
Every one in EVE seems so up on the "balance" trip lately, well, wheres the balance there? You can rat all day with 0 risk to your ship simply because you fit a cloak on a non cloaking BS, or you have a tower in system? What in that deserves immunity from PVP?
It should be work for roamers to catch you, but it should be JUST AS MUCH WORK for you to avoid roamers, and right now that simply is not even close to the case.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.08.05 06:42:00 -
[46]
It would be the biggest nerf to mining since the Drone regions. This (lame) idea benefits the agressor and the maneuverable. Mining is static, and the vessels are achingly slow.
Implement this idea if you want ships and mods to be 5 times more expensive.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.05 07:42:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 05/08/2008 07:42:53
Originally by: Soporo
It would be the biggest nerf to mining since the Drone regions. This (lame) idea benefits the agressor and the maneuverable. Mining is static, and the vessels are achingly slow.
Implement this idea if you want ships and mods to be 5 times more expensive.
So what your saying is that just because your a miner, you should automatically get a free ride, and be safe from being attacked at little to no effort expended by yourself.
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Ki An
Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.08.05 17:01:00 -
[48]
Not sure removing local and not introducing something else to the game is the best idea, but in principle, local needs a complete rework from the fail-safe intel tool it is today.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.05 17:56:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 05/08/2008 07:42:53
Originally by: Soporo
It would be the biggest nerf to mining since the Drone regions. This (lame) idea benefits the agressor and the maneuverable. Mining is static, and the vessels are achingly slow.
Implement this idea if you want ships and mods to be 5 times more expensive.
So what your saying is that just because your a miner, you should automatically get a free ride, and be safe from being attacked at little to no effort expended by yourself.
No what he is saying as a miner he doesnt want to see his risk triple and his rewards stay static. Make mining in 0.0 with the increased risk worth an increased reward so he can pay someone to watch a gate then he might give you a deal.
I also cannot support this issue without a substantial increase in reward to go along with the increase in risk.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.06 06:45:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 05/08/2008 07:42:53
Originally by: Soporo
It would be the biggest nerf to mining since the Drone regions. This (lame) idea benefits the agressor and the maneuverable. Mining is static, and the vessels are achingly slow.
Implement this idea if you want ships and mods to be 5 times more expensive.
So what your saying is that just because your a miner, you should automatically get a free ride, and be safe from being attacked at little to no effort expended by yourself.
No what he is saying as a miner he doesnt want to see his risk triple and his rewards stay static. Make mining in 0.0 with the increased risk worth an increased reward so he can pay someone to watch a gate then he might give you a deal.
I also cannot support this issue without a substantial increase in reward to go along with the increase in risk.
MAYBE increasing some of the lower end systems true sec a bit, but tbh, I always thought the guys crying about 0.0 not making enough money were full of sh*t.
Yes, farming lvl 4's will make you more money, but it will also make your eye's bleed and your IQ to drop sharply for each hour you persist.
At least 0.0 has a decent variety of things that ALL make decent money, from plexing, to mining, to ratting, hell, if you live near NPC 0.0 you can farm those bastards for missions.
I call fowl
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Cyberus
Caldari
Dissident Aggressors
Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2008.08.06 09:19:00 -
[51]
again?
[/url] |
Belmarduk
Amarr
de Prieure
Four Elements
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Posted - 2008.08.06 10:41:00 -
[52]
No I disagree strongly
1. Its not "realistic" that a spaceship doesnt have all other vessels present in the system on its scanner (even though not the exact location)
2. It would totally **** up the game as it stands now - The gamesystem is built for local etc - Remove local (without a different system) and you seriously damage the game.
CCP Please give us casual players a Skill-Queue !
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Aiden Bismuth
Gallente
Die Boeremag
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Posted - 2008.08.06 11:26:00 -
[53]
No, totally against this idea. Why should you the pirate get any more advantage over the miner/mission-runner. YOU work for your target.
AB
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.08.06 15:17:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Belmarduk
No I disagree strongly
1. Its not "realistic" that a spaceship doesnt have all other vessels present in the system on its scanner (even though not the exact location)
2. It would totally **** up the game as it stands now - The gamesystem is built for local etc - Remove local (without a different system) and you seriously damage the game.
1) Onboard Scanner... try using it once in a while. It's not "realistic" that you automatically enter a system knowing exactly who is there, without having to put forth some effort to find out.
2) See #1.
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Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.06 15:25:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
MAYBE increasing some of the lower end systems true sec a bit, but tbh, I always thought the guys crying about 0.0 not making enough money were full of sh*t.
Yes, farming lvl 4's will make you more money, but it will also make your eye's bleed and your IQ to drop sharply for each hour you persist.
Repeativly smashing the scanner button is going to make my eyes bleed and my hands get carpel tunnel. I would much rather do level 4's with no risk for better rewards (thanks ccp for the upcoming suicide ganking nerf /sarcasm) than rat in 0.0 without local.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.08.06 19:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Belmarduk
No I disagree strongly
1. Its not "realistic" that a spaceship doesnt have all other vessels present in the system on its scanner (even though not the exact location)
2. It would totally **** up the game as it stands now - The gamesystem is built for local etc - Remove local (without a different system) and you seriously damage the game.
Ok, first lets address #1
I could see all ships withing your NATURAL SHIP SCANNER RANGE being on scan, but system wide? cmon, how broken is that? Your telling me that with active scan you can get 20au or so, but with a natural passive scanner you should be able to see the entire system, AND know the pilots affiliation, and name?
For statement number #2: How is the system built for local?
Originally by: Aiden Bismuth
No, totally against this idea. Why should you the pirate get any more advantage over the miner/mission-runner. YOU work for your target.
AB
To answer this guy, we do work, and the reward for the amount of work you get for ACTUALLY TRYING while roaming is VERY small, even more so when compared to the amount of work ratters/miners have to put in for getting their reward. You simply watch local, warp, and cloak, or hide at a POS as soon as it adds any new people. Yea, thats balanced and fair, we have to scan you out of the belts, usually with a directional scanner, and warp, hoping you were afk, or talking, or just plain dumb and didn't insta warp as soon as we jumped in system. Our chance of scoring a kill is about 5% or less, where as your chance for avoidance is near 100% as long as your simply sitting at your computer.
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
Repeativly smashing the scanner button is going to make my eyes bleed and my hands get carpel tunnel. I would much rather do level 4's with no risk for better rewards (thanks ccp for the upcoming suicide ganking nerf /sarcasm) than rat in 0.0 without local.
Yes, something would need to be done to make the scan consant at range, with the ability to narrow the scan down like now if you wanted, but without the need to ping the system constantly. I can't believe active radar would be that hard to come up with for these guys on a minimal lag level. However, its pretty immersion breaking to always know everything about the first thing that jumps in system with a simple click. Its also detrimental to small gang warfare, and roaming in general.
Everybody seems to be on the fair balance trip lately. How many of you support the nano nerf? And then come in here with the same breath and say that the current intel system is balanced?
So the miners charge more? Friggin sweet, they finally have a reason to make more than the crap-tastic minimal amount, making mining groups using scouts to cover gates in cov ops, ect. The result of that would likely be an increase in BS and other t1 ship prices, which is also great in my opinion, put some loss back into loosing a battleship. Believe it or not I'm actually all for you guys making more for what you do.
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Cosy
Gallente
Porandor
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Posted - 2008.08.06 23:18:00 -
[57]
dont remove local only set local on delayed
if u talk u show up 
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
Any complaints can be directed towards our Music Director 
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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.08.06 23:47:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Yes, something would need to be done to make the scan consant at range, with the ability to narrow the scan down like now if you wanted, but without the need to ping the system constantly. I can't believe active radar would be that hard to come up with for these guys on a minimal lag level. However, its pretty immersion breaking to always know everything about the first thing that jumps in system with a simple click. Its also detrimental to small gang warfare, and roaming in general.
Everybody seems to be on the fair balance trip lately. How many of you support the nano nerf? And then come in here with the same breath and say that the current intel system is balanced?
So the miners charge more? Friggin sweet, they finally have a reason to make more than the crap-tastic minimal amount, making mining groups using scouts to cover gates in cov ops, ect. The result of that would likely be an increase in BS and other t1 ship prices, which is also great in my opinion, put some loss back into loosing a battleship. Believe it or not I'm actually all for you guys making more for what you do.
I could be fine with some sort of active scanning system, but I would still want an increase in rewards. Mining will probably balance itself out due to the increased risk of mining in 0.0 is going to bump up the price of high ends till its worthwhile agian. However ratting you have a static reward.The reason for this is if you were ratting in 0.0, doing it in a group significantly cuts your profits. Paying someone to watch a gate cuts them even more. Attackers will always have the advantage if there was no warning of a gate activation unless you had someone actually watching a gate. Group ratting in certain systems on top of having to split out isk to people to guard you, you have a limited number of belts thus a limited number of possible ratters before it becomes way less profitable.
What I am saying is that in 0.0 it should be worthwhile to all parties if the ratting rewards were increased. Not only would that mean it would be worthwhile for ratters to use a scout to help defend themselves, it will also mean an increase in the number of ratters in general giving you guys more possible ganks as you go through systems if certain ratters take additional risks to rat without a scout in place. I know you speak from the standpoint of a member in Pandemic Legion, and this local change stands to benifit you greatly, but I see no reason why you wouldnt want an increase in rewards to go along with the increase in risk. Otherwise you might find that there is no one to very few people ratting as you go roaming through 0.0 because were all using our empire alts which would be more profitable.
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Opertone
SIEGE.
The Border Patrol
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Posted - 2008.08.06 23:52:00 -
[59]
nerf local support
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Opertone
Caldari
SIEGE.
The Border Patrol
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Posted - 2008.08.06 23:53:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Tal Nok
Local needs to be moved to Region. Should also only display personnel who talk in region chat, which after a while, they disappear much like Aliance chat.
this idea is actually good
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