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Yukisa
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Posted - 2008.07.29 10:04:00 -
[1]
Given that this "speed reduction" is going to take place..
The result of which are that small ships will get splattered and face melted by missiles (regular or precision), and drones. There are NO viable defense against these weapon systems in eve except to out-speed them. This is a bad game mechanic that have existed and caused so many problems and continue to do so. Especially light drones, as every ship with some drone bandwidth (and all BSes have) will be an anti-light platform alongside their heavy roles.
You have tracking disruptors, they work great on turrets. It's an excellent countermeasure.
There's nothing against missile/drones that work effectively. Defenders are silly when they do work, and stupid when they don't. EMPs? Good luck with all the activation delay/lags, short range. Normal server lag will basically nullify it.
The point here is these weapon systems need a counter with these changes coming.
I've a few suggestions:
1. A "Flare/ECM" module, goes in a low slot. Active (like hardeners etc). Works by causing % of incoming fire from missiles/drones to miss via disrupting their electronic tracking systems. Light missiles/drones are harder to disrupt, while heavy/cruise missile or medium/heavy drones are easier.
i.e. Cruiser have an average chance of evading heavy missiles/medium drones, good chance evading cruise missiles/heavy drones.
Can be worked to factor in ship sig radius, so frigates will evade heavy/cruise missiles extremely well etc.
2. Suggestion 1 is ideal, as ships can give up a slot to counter these weapons similar to disruptors. But if not, then an across the board re-work of ship sig radius. Frigs/cruiser/af/hacs etc all need a big sig reduction if they are to survive without their high speed.
Also, afterburner speeds could use some more "ooomph".
Cheers.
ps. ECM is not a missile counter. Nor are damps (especially not now since its nerfed to crap). These EW are not platform specific.
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Vengal Seyhan
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.29 11:47:00 -
[2]
Good concept, but to fit the general concept of countermeasure systems it'd need to be an active module, and sit in a midslot. A Flare/Chaff launcher would certainly need power to operate.
It would also need to be targetted - ie you need to chose whose drones of missiles you want to evade, not get a universal bonus vs all missiles (much like a TDisruptor works).
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.07.29 11:49:00 -
[3]
Smartbombs for drones. Good luck with missiles, looks like you're screwed like all the other non-Caldari players out there. 
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION
Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Slade Hoo
Amarr
xPlaguex
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Posted - 2008.07.29 11:50:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Slade Hoo on 29/07/2008 11:51:39
there are weapon systems to counter missiles and drones. These would be Smartbombs (Drones) and Defender (Missiles).
We already got them. But the implementation of defenders lack in quality tbh.
I'd like to see the defender missiles boosted in some kind of way (activate once, fires automatically at any approaching missile randomly)
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Vengal Seyhan
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.07.29 12:03:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Slade Hoo
Edited by: Slade Hoo on 29/07/2008 11:51:39
there are weapon systems to counter missiles and drones. These would be Smartbombs (Drones) and Defender (Missiles).
We already got them. But the implementation of defenders lack in quality tbh.
I'd like to see the defender missiles boosted in some kind of way (activate once, fires automatically at any approaching missile randomly)
(This is a bit off-topic, so bear with me.)
So does the implementation of smartbombs... let's put it this way:
I run missions in my Domi with T2 Sentries. I can't be arsed moving for anything since I can tank God Himself in my ship. I can't be arsed pulling my sentries in and switching out to mediums for the small stuff. So what do I do with small close-obritting things?
I fit 2x Large Smarties and I leave my drones deployed. My sentries tank my smartbombs on passive regen alone.
Now, that's great in PvE (and I love it), and to be honest sentry HP is pretty damn high... but I can imagine that it's a problem in PvP vs any drone type It makes me wonder about DPS vs drone hitpoints ...especially given that a lot of fits are tight on cap so running an active tank and bombs for any space of time is pretty rough.
For both Defenders and Smarties, it's also a highslot that you lose (vs a midslot to counter other weapon types).
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Forge Lag
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Posted - 2008.07.29 12:04:00 -
[6]
Smartbombs get missiles too under ideal lag free conditions. And defenders are cool, I love midless button mashing.
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Yukisa
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Posted - 2008.07.29 12:14:00 -
[7]
People always mention Smartbombs and Defenders when we discuss a reliable EWAR against missile/drones.
Frankly they are highly ineffective, hence very rarely do you see them used in pvp.
Why are they horrible?
They both sacrifice high slots, which is precious to a lot of ships for its firepower and other ultility. Other EWAR or ECCM system use mids or use lows etc. These slots are better suited for countermeasures.
And importantly..
Defenders - Erratic in function, and given server latency by the time you see a salvo come, to the time you activate its too late. They also only knock out a small amount of incoming fire. No viable setup has room for many defenders honestly to make it even work.
Smartbombs - For the class of ships and the drones involved, ie. tiny/small smartbombs take ages to kill light drones. By then, a lot of frigates are dead. Likewise cruiser sized smartbombs aren't denting much of heavy drones (which you can outrun with a mwd but not an AB) and take many cycles to take out mediums. Their other drawback is a huge fitting costs and high cap use. Combined, they are inadequate by far.
When compared to disruptors, it's obvious these two countermeasures are utterly bad. You really can't defend them in their current performance.
A "Flare" module would be perfect. An electronic attack against a target enemy to disrupt their tracking and guidance systems, preventing a % of missile/drone attacks to miss. Ofcourse, its targeted like disruptors and not passive against all inc fire.
Mid or low is fine, but there's way too many important mid slot modules as it is. Plus, small ships don't really have a strong tank to begin with or many mids to sacrifice. A low slot flare is ideal.
We will need effective countermeasures against missile/drones very soon when all the smaller ships have no chance against these weapon systems without speed.
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2008.07.29 12:17:00 -
[8]
And they could always bump up the usefulness of defenders, those are supposed to be the missile defences.
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Yukisa
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Posted - 2008.07.30 02:02:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Yukisa on 30/07/2008 02:03:13
The problem with defenders are they don't allow direct control of what enemy you want to defend against even if they work (which atm we can conclude they need a fix). It's all too random. Perhaps rework defenders into a real EWAR module?
And its vital the slot goes into mid/lows to match other ewar systems against turrets.
This really gives AB ships an effective defense against these weapons, otherwise if you use AB you will die horribly to missile/drones.
This would kill many birds with 1 stone. Promotes AB usage since it removes their extreme vulnerability to missile/drones, rework balance between the weapon systems and offer flexible ewar systems against all weapon types. |
Vision Threads
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Posted - 2008.07.30 03:42:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Vision Threads on 30/07/2008 03:44:50
What makes you think that a smaller ship is supposed to have a chance against a larger ship in a one-on-one situation? If you're in a frigate-hull in PVP, your job is to tackle. Not to fend off drones and missiles. Someone else in your gang should be using ecm or damps to your enemy, sniping his drones, and remote repping your frigate to keep it alive in the meantime. That's what teamwork is all about.
Stop trying to dream up ways where a cruiser or frigate can fit some magic modules and suddenly be able to kill a raven.
Edit:
And moreover, all frigate-hull ships are newbie ships/stepping stones. Even the T2 ones. T2 frigates take no longer to get into than battleships. They aren't supposed to be elite killing machines. Move past them and into an adult ship (BC+) if you want to do something other than tackle.
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Draahk Chimera
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.07.30 03:56:00 -
[11]
I seem to be typing this in 4-5 new threads every day. Go f-ing test stuff before crying. Cerberus vs Crow. Thunderbolt precision heavy missile 3.7 damage. Interceptors are perfectly safe people.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Oyster Colors
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Posted - 2008.07.30 04:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Vision Threads
And moreover, all frigate-hull ships are newbie ships/stepping stones. Even the T2 ones. T2 frigates take no longer to get into than battleships. They aren't supposed to be elite killing machines. Move past them and into an adult ship (BC+) if you want to do something other than tackle.
No offense intended, but thats a pretty warped view of things.
Assault frigates and interceptors are the ships of choice if you want to specialize in small vessels, not upgraded noob ships.
I can see lots of cruiser and even BC pilots being run down by AFs in the future depending on how things evolve.
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.30 04:30:00 -
[13]
I don't think this is an anti-Caldari thread. Amarr have the sacrilege and the curse as missile boats (though the sac uses heavy assault, and the curse ... well, only it's slots identify it as a missile boat).
The concept is sound, though. We have various means of disrupting primary turret weapon fire. But primary turret weapon fire is NOT the only damage type, nor is it even primary for two races.
Defenders suck. They have sucked for a long, long time. Using defenders is laughable, and we all know it. CCP knows it too. They probably have posters in their office that say the same.
Smart bombs are useful, but are NOT EW. They are an offensive tool, and from one of the few people I know who's ever had his noob gang popped by a roaming battleship with a full rack of SB's (merc fight, don't ask), they are semi effective.
But giving players the options to fit EW that singles out a single targets drones and missiles is NOT a cry for nerf or whatnot. We all know those mid slots are valuable, and each race has EWar modules that they are 'inclined' to use. There is nothing even remotely 'cry' or 'whine' about the ops post. It simply stated that two major damage dealers, shared unevenly by every race, cannot be effected by EW.
Op, I fully support. But you mentioned the speed nerf AND 'missiles' in the same paragraph. That makes any words coming after that lost on those whose brains are only thinking along a single track right now. But the Flare module sounds interesting and applicable.
But, maybe it should be too large to fit on a frigate. Just a thought.
"The greatest offense is no defense."
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Ruze
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.07.30 04:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Vision Threads
And moreover, all frigate-hull ships are newbie ships/stepping stones. Even the T2 ones. T2 frigates take no longer to get into than battleships. They aren't supposed to be elite killing machines. Move past them and into an adult ship (BC+) if you want to do something other than tackle.
No offense intended, but thats a pretty warped view of things.
Assault frigates and interceptors are the ships of choice if you want to specialize in small vessels, not upgraded noob ships.
I can see lots of cruiser and even BC pilots being run down by AFs in the future depending on how things evolve.
And that kind of thinking, Vision, is a real quick way to get yourself run over by someone who is specialized and really understands how to fly a T2 frigate. It's all about combat style. Don't underestimate frigates, or good frigate pilots.
"The greatest offense is no defense."
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d3vo
The Space BorderLine
United For 0rder
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Posted - 2008.07.30 04:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
I seem to be typing this in 4-5 new threads every day. Go f-ing test stuff before crying. Cerberus vs Crow. Thunderbolt precision heavy missile 3.7 damage. Interceptors are perfectly safe people.
...and drones? Also, this isn't only about Interceptors, this is also about nano-cruiser class ships.
Defenders need a boost and smart bombs need a boost. If they are effective, I am willing to lose a turret to fit one or the other.
The flare module is (imo) filling the game up with too much complicated stuff. Fix what we have and then add more.
__________
\(^.^)/ |
Yukisa
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Posted - 2008.07.30 08:57:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
I seem to be typing this in 4-5 new threads every day. Go f-ing test stuff before crying. Cerberus vs Crow. Thunderbolt precision heavy missile 3.7 damage. Interceptors are perfectly safe people.
Maybe you missed the point. Where's my effective ewar against missile/drones?
A turret disruptor works.
What we have now are a joke. Fix it, or if they can't then add something that can.
That and the fact they want to promote AB usage. Go on, try to use an AB in a frig/cruiser. You will die horribly to missiles and drones. At least turret disruption can keep you alive against turrets. |
Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
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Posted - 2008.07.30 09:02:00 -
[17]
First of all heavy percision missiles are still crap, and should be fixed, not boosted or nerfed to begin with.
Second killing drones used to be pretty easy, webbers getting nerfed doesn't help tho and drones are the only weapon type you can actually kill kill .. and they can be kited.. and if you d/c you lose them.. and there are no implants, damage mods or really useful rigs for them.. and they couldn't even reach nano enemies.. and for the piwates, they get killed by sentryguns.. and there are no faction types readily available.. and no tech II mods.. what are we talking about again?
Nah seriously, the only drones that can reach ceptors and such if they are doing thir job right are lights and any ceptor can take those out pretty easily. Cruisers have a hard time versus heavy tech II drones, but where does it say a cruiser should be able to tank a BS with tech II heavies? You can still kill em and fighting a BS with a cruiser you should have brought friends.. Hacs on the other hand can handle even tech II heavies reasonably ok if you put an actual tank on them.
Missiles are a different matter, especially with FoFs being the only weapon system truely useful when jammed.. Often my drones start shooting the falcon that is jamming me.. 150km away.. yeah useful.. Defenders should get boosted I agree, but they are pretty good on fast ships anyway, you should try it sometimes..
The problem with boosting smartbombs is that it's completely useless in high sec wars and if it's done Citadel Torps should be boosted (even more than they already should be)..
Right now it's mostly range for missiles that makes it unbalanced.. even if you are flying fast the missiles have easily enough flighttime and speed to catch up.. That might need some tweaking.. And like I said in my main post in the speed nerf thread, it is too easy to kill fast ships with drones now, but nerfing drones more isn't the solution, ships that are meant to go fast should go just a little faster..
All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me..
Drone guide.. |
Kano Sekor
Amarr
The Movement
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Posted - 2008.07.30 09:10:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Kano Sekor on 30/07/2008 09:12:06
Edited by: Kano Sekor on 30/07/2008 09:10:34
Originally by: Yukisa
I've a few suggestions:
1. A "Flare/ECM" module, goes in a low slot. Active (like hardeners etc). Works by causing % of incoming fire from missiles/drones to miss via disrupting their electronic tracking systems. Light missiles/drones are harder to disrupt, while heavy/cruise missile or medium/heavy drones are easier.
i.e. Cruiser have an average chance of evading heavy missiles/medium drones, good chance evading cruise missiles/heavy drones.
Can be worked to factor in ship sig radius, so frigates will evade heavy/cruise missiles extremely well etc.
2. Suggestion 1 is ideal, as ships can give up a slot to counter these weapons similar to disruptors. But if not, then an across the board re-work of ship sig radius. Frigs/cruiser/af/hacs etc all need a big sig reduction if they are to survive without their high speed.
All other counter (i.e. tracking disruptor against turrets, eccm against ecm) are mid-slot modules hence the missile counter should be mid slot as well.
It could also be some kind of missile webber system lowering its explosive velocity (thus reducing damage in combo with your speed being high). This whould make it harder to counter smaller missiles etc.
All in all im in favour of a working missile counter and since just having a fast ship isnt going to cut it anymore.
Against missiles we need a working missile counter and ive just described it.(with inspiration of OP) Any dev should be able to see the necessity for this module and how easy it whould be to implement (skill reqs. should be Weapon Disruption).
Now fix this and toss away those defender missiles the only way i can accept them is if the made defender missile drones. 
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Yukisa
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Posted - 2008.07.30 09:12:00 -
[19]
CCP doesnt want ships to "go faster" to evade missile/drones. That's their design goal for now, read the blog.
But what they have done is as you said, drones eat fast ships easy. Anything slow dies to missiles. There's only dark and light, no grey. This leaves ships few options, none of which is using AB unless you plan on not running into missileers.
Turret disruptors are grey.
ECM are grey.
Grey is flexibility.
We like grey. |
Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
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Posted - 2008.07.30 09:28:00 -
[20]
Like you said, grey.. I want ceptors to be able to evade mediums and most drones.. Heck even now I won't kill good ceptor pilots with warrior IIs and my skills are perfect. They just fly away, allign the right way and warp.
Missiles are the only thing that can kill everything now.
But having EW against drones/missiles, infact having new modules period always comes down to the slot placement inbalance. Make it a low slot and those shield tanking missile ships can even defend themselves easily versus everything.. make it a mid slot and armour tankers (especially amarr which have the least midslots) will be unable to fit any normal pvp fit and shield tankers will need to drop even more shield tank to be pvp able.
Defenders are high slots, but only for ships with missile launchers. Smartbombs are high slots. Anything like EW versus drones/missiles should be highslot. Maybe some sort of goalkeeper, a gattling laser (no ammo, some cap, not usuable versus ships) with a chance to hit incomming fire (not the drones themselves) and negate the damage.. How does that sound?
All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me..
Drone guide.. |
Damned Force
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.07.30 10:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Yukisa
People always mention Smartbombs and Defenders when we discuss a reliable EWAR against missile/drones.
Frankly they are highly ineffective, hence very rarely do you see them used in pvp.
Why are they horrible?
They both sacrifice high slots, which is precious to a lot of ships for its firepower and other ultility. Other EWAR or ECCM system use mids or use lows etc. These slots are better suited for countermeasures.
And importantly..
Defenders - Erratic in function, and given server latency by the time you see a salvo come, to the time you activate its too late. They also only knock out a small amount of incoming fire. No viable setup has room for many defenders honestly to make it even work.
Smartbombs - For the class of ships and the drones involved, ie. tiny/small smartbombs take ages to kill light drones. By then, a lot of frigates are dead. Likewise cruiser sized smartbombs aren't denting much of heavy drones (which you can outrun with a mwd but not an AB) and take many cycles to take out mediums. Their other drawback is a huge fitting costs and high cap use. Combined, they are inadequate by far.
When compared to disruptors, it's obvious these two countermeasures are utterly bad. You really can't defend them in their current performance.
A "Flare" module would be perfect. An electronic attack against a target enemy to disrupt their tracking and guidance systems, preventing a % of missile/drone attacks to miss. Ofcourse, its targeted like disruptors and not passive against all inc fire.
Mid or low is fine, but there's way too many important mid slot modules as it is. Plus, small ships don't really have a strong tank to begin with or many mids to sacrifice. A low slot flare is ideal.
We will need effective countermeasures against missile/drones very soon when all the smaller ships have no chance against these weapon systems without speed.
With this logic we should redesign all ewar modules, because they use midslots which are very important for shieldtankers
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Marquis Zenas
Gallente
m3 Corp
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 11:42:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Marquis Zenas on 31/07/2008 11:47:26
Edited by: Marquis Zenas on 31/07/2008 11:45:20
Edited by: Marquis Zenas on 31/07/2008 11:43:14
A quick thought about anti-drone ewar:
Skill: Drone disruption
Module: Bandwidth disruptor - disrupts and scrambles bandwidth signals from the drones Mothership. Two main effects altered by scripts:
- reduces drone velocity (good script for use on fast ships)
- reduces drone rate of fire (good script for use on fragile ships)
Scripts can be used to increase the effectiveness of one at the expensive of the other. The offensive ship can try to counter these effects by fitting the current drone updgrage modules like omnis and navcomps, much like ECCM, Tracking Computers etc are used to mitigate current ewar module effects.
Thoughts?
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 11:51:00 -
[23]
CCP wants to reduce speed down to levels where missiles and drones do the damage they intend for them to do.
... and now you want to reduce missile and drone damage?
Do you see the rather fruitless pattern here?
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
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Posted - 2008.07.31 11:54:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Marquis Zenas
Edited by: Marquis Zenas on 31/07/2008 11:47:40
A quick thought about anti-drone ewar:
Skill: Drone disruption
Module: Bandwidth disruptor - disrupts and scrambles bandwidth signals from the drones Mothership. Two main effects altered by scripts:
- reduces drone velocity (good script for use on fast ships)
- reduces drone rate of fire (good script for use on fragile ships)
Scripts can be used to increase the effectiveness of one at the expensive of the other. The offensive ship can try to counter these effects by fitting the current drone updgrage modules like omnis and navcomps, much like ECCM, Tracking Computers etc are used to mitigate current ewar module effects.
Thoughts?
Provided the ratios are not too big i would certainly be able to live with that.. better make it a high slot so the missile shield ships can use it as a valid option iso neuts/nos. Optimal 35 km, fall off 15km, using cap like a racial jammer, and the skill of a jammer and some drone skills. Max skill level etc scripted 15% decrease.
All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me..
Drone guide.. |
Yukisa
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Posted - 2008.07.31 11:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Pohbis
CCP wants to reduce speed down to levels where missiles and drones do the damage they intend for them to do.
... and now you want to reduce missile and drone damage?
Do you see the rather fruitless pattern here?
CCP wanted to reduce immunity to these weapons by going obscenely fast.
But in doing so, these weapons are too effective against smaller targets. Turrets have tracking issues. They also have disruptors that ewar against them.
Drones/Missiles need its EWAR counter too. Fair don't you think? |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 12:01:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Pohbis on 31/07/2008 12:05:09
Originally by: Yukisa
CCP wanted to reduce immunity to these weapons by going obscenely fast.
CCP will release the patch with their intended damage levels. If somehow missiles and drones end up causing more damage than CCP wants, by all means, change it but there's no indication from CCP, besides the issue with dmg vs. small targets that they're currently watching, that anything is wrong atm on SiSi.
... and the missile EW is in, defenders.
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Marquis Zenas
Gallente
m3 Corp
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 12:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Pohbis
CCP wants to reduce speed down to levels where missiles and drones do the damage they intend for them to do.
... and now you want to reduce missile and drone damage?
Do you see the rather fruitless pattern here?
Sort of true, but it's about moving us closer to the rock, paper, scissors idea rather than eliminating the damage they do. For example:
Drones.
Pros: mini warriors that do damage, effectively immune to EWAR, fast
Cons: Can be shot, some ships are limited in the amount they have.
The past arguments about shooting drones to stop them are valid against most ships. But what of drone ships like the dominix? That's filled with light drones? That's 75 light drones. It's not really feasible to shoot them as he can send wave after wave. You can jam him, but if he's got ECCM it's less effective and drones still come and do the same damage whether he's jammed or not.
A drone ewar module (whatever it's appearance) reduces the drone ships ability to damage or catch targets using his drones, much like how the tracking disruptor or ECM modules work on other ships.
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2008.07.31 12:08:00 -
[28]
Drones are fine enough, the counter to drones is: blow em up! Easy enough to do. And if it is a droneship you are up against you even took out his most effective way to deal damage.
Missiles however we got the defender missiles for defence, but those aren't very effective. As stated multiple times by now. Their effectiveness would be greatly increased if they don't just fly off in space but attack every incoming missile (or even hostile missile to your fleet).
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Marquis Zenas
Gallente
m3 Corp
BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.07.31 12:10:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Keitaro Baka
Provided the ratios are not too big i would certainly be able to live with that.. better make it a high slot so the missile shield ships can use it as a valid option iso neuts/nos. Optimal 35 km, fall off 15km, using cap like a racial jammer, and the skill of a jammer and some drone skills. Max skill level etc scripted 15% decrease.
I'd argue against having it as a highslot, for the reason that keeping it as a mid means that it falls into line with other ewar modules as well as the fact that it is countered by the mid slot drone module boosters like the omni and navigation computers.
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Yukisa
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Posted - 2008.07.31 13:00:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Yukisa on 31/07/2008 13:01:14
Originally by: Marquis Zenas
Edited by: Marquis Zenas on 31/07/2008 12:30:03
Originally by: Keitaro Baka
Provided the ratios are not too big i would certainly be able to live with that.. better make it a high slot so the missile shield ships can use it as a valid option iso neuts/nos. Optimal 35 km, fall off 15km, using cap like a racial jammer, and the skill of a jammer and some drone skills. Max skill level etc scripted 15% decrease.
I'd argue against having it as a highslot, for the reason that keeping it as a mid means that it falls into line with other ewar modules as well as the fact that it is countered by the mid slot drone module boosters like the omni and navigation computers.
-- EDIT --
More thoughts come to mind.
To be honest, I like the idea of defenders but in practice they are naff. Nothing wears out your keyboard more than mindless button mashing and they hardly work due to lag. Instead how about an alternative:
Skill: Guidance scrambling
Module: Guidance disruptor - Midslot - Disrupts and confuses the missile guidance systems with ghost images on the target ship causing them to waste fuel or to detonate early. Has two effects:
- Reduce explosion velocity
- Reduce missile velocity
Again scripts can be used to increase one at the expense of the other.
For defenders, they could be the basis for a new type of T2 ship specially for weapon interception. These ships fit special highslot, active modules that reduces a percentage of damage from hostile fire within a certain radius around the ship through using:
- defender missiles (for missiles and maybe drones)
- EM scattering beams (for lasers)
- particle dispersion fields (for hybrids)
- flak guns (for projectiles)
I'm all for fixing defenders if CCP can do it. It's been what, 5 years and the damn things are still so crap. Maybe its not possible, something to do with their physics engine.
As for the eventual ewar (Flare "Guidance disruptor" or whatever CCP wants the name to be). I prefer mid/low, but seriously it doesn't matter. We just need something that is effective. There's no sense in making 2/3 of the weapon systems immune to EWAR gameplay, it could seriously boost fleet composition with more playstyles.
As for fleet defense. I've always imagined Destroyers to fulfill that role. They ought to be the true fleet point defense platforms, with a variety of high slot modules to counter all incoming threats but unable to put out any dps themselves, purely support ships. Marquis suggests great ideas there, with specific modules countering weapon types. They need to be fast, low sig radius and good resists since if they work, consider them primary. |
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