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Could a Frigate and/or Cruiser class ship fly & land on a planet?

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Solania Aurae Solar Wind 3	Posted - 2012.03.20 07:30:00 - [1] - Quote Purely from a fictional and lore point of view, this came to mind while I was sipping my tea before bed. While Cruisers might be a long-shot, Frigates/Rookie ships do seem plausible. I'd imagine Shuttles are a given. I'm curious as to what peoples opinions are as to whether the "friction" and "drag" created by the active warp-core also works akin to other ships in other sic-fi universes, such as Star Trek and more notable Mass Effect, in which, as the latter implies, alters the mass of a ship (or any object), allowing it to enter, ascend and descend in any given terrestrial atmosphere. Or, more likely, they would simply use remedial thrusters to overcome gravity, which would be more likely given the Shuttles appearance of having "wings", even though they look less then air worthy. I'd imagine this was never considered when the ship models were designed, after all, the EvE wiki states that most of the space ore/materials would either melt or become brittle/oxidize upon entering a oxygen (or non-vacume) based atmosphere. Do you think certain exceptions could be made to Frigates? /lorenerd
OfBalance Caldari State 195	Posted - 2012.03.20 07:34:00 - [2] - Quote You answered your own question.
Headerman Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx 719	Posted - 2012.03.20 08:52:00 - [3] - Quote I look at it this way.... It is a fictional universe, so any feasable idea you come up with can be accepted. Obviously things like Star trek ships entering through a wormhole are just ridiculous. But i think frigates and cruisers being able to land would be fine? But then you have bigger ships like the harbinger, Hurricane etc, they may be able to land as well since they are about the size of an aircraft carrier. Why would they land though? That would be the next step. Crew rotation, module changings, hiding from pirates etc etc... Continuing that trend, add in the fact you have artificial gravity, inertia dampening etc, would make entry and departure from atmosphere pretty easy. Maybe Dust could see frigates used in ground support roles too? They have some pretty powerful guns that could make a big difference I wouldn't like to land a Nag though, it could fall over waaayyyyyy to easy :( The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why?
Pookoko Sigma Sagittarii Inc. 27	Posted - 2012.03.20 09:46:00 - [4] - Quote In eve fictions like Templar One, drop ships are mostly used for landing. Even drake has a drop ship, which troops use to land, while the ships itself hovers above. I can't recall a single instance of a capsuler ship landing on ground.
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 8	Posted - 2012.03.20 10:54:00 - [5] - Quote i just imagined a rupture 'landing' on a planet, then slowly falling over and exploding like a stranded whale.
stoicfaux 798	Posted - 2012.03.20 13:40:00 - [6] - Quote The Tempest and the Cheetah would land in the ocean and sail around... You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
Baneken Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate 78	Posted - 2012.03.20 13:46:00 - [7] - Quote In EVE space ships are built in space and operated in space and have specific craft and orbital elevators for taking people to planets surface. A shuttle being a civilian ship might be able to land as well as most industrial ships since they aren't meant to be flow in combat and thus might be easier to made from materials that ,while being less sturdy, could survive the atmospheric entry. How ever every single ship we currently fly in EVE has tritanium alloys in it which is highly fragile in atmosphere.
mxzf Shovel Bros 1004	Posted - 2012.03.20 13:50:00 - [8] - Quote Baneken wrote: In EVE space ships are built in space and operated in space and have specific craft and orbital elevators for taking people to planets surface. A shuttle being a civilian ship might be able to land as well as most industrial ships since they aren't meant to be flow in combat and thus might be easier to made from materials that ,while being less sturdy, could survive the atmospheric entry. How ever every single ship we currently fly in EVE has tritanium alloys in it which is highly fragile in atmosphere. Shuttles are built from pure Tritanium though :p
Lady Ayeipsia Morskoj Industries 54	Posted - 2012.03.20 13:50:00 - [9] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: The Tempest and the Cheetah would land in the ocean and sail around... Same with the thrasher! The hound would sit just below the waterline, lone fin standing up like a shark. That said, landing would add further constraints on a ship, increasing cost, taking up space for equipment, and probably require additional structural support. (think of the moa and how it would have to support itself under gravity.) And the required heat shielding needed for reentry. Additionally, think about spinning your ship. Why would energy (fuel) be wasted I. a space station keeping a ship floating, if you could just land the ship on a hanger floor? Seems like a waste of resources in general. Still, most ships could probably land once... It's just whether they could survive the landing to takeoff and do it again.
Radelix Cisko The Adjustment Team 28	Posted - 2012.03.20 23:56:00 - [10] - Quote Lady Ayeipsia wrote: Still, most ships could probably land once... It's just whether they could survive the landing to takeoff and do it again. Just get us on the ground Ohh that part will most definitely happen
Fredfredbug4 Kings of Kill EVE Animal Control 111	Posted - 2012.03.21 00:48:00 - [11] - Quote Well the first DUST trailer shows a Megathron hovering very close to the ground and then being destroyed by a missile barrage. I'm assuming the EVE lore would have to be tweaked a bit to fit this change.
Jeyson Vicious The Scope Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2012.03.21 01:53:00 - [12] - Quote Solania Aurae wrote: Purely from a fictional and lore point of view, this came to mind while I was sipping my tea before bed. /lorenerd ...and done.
Skorpynekomimi Omega Vector 141	Posted - 2012.03.21 04:55:00 - [13] - Quote Tritanium catches fire in air. So, no.
Katrina Oniseki Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 371	Posted - 2012.03.21 05:20:00 - [14] - Quote Very very few EVE starships are also aerodynamic. Most of them would descend and land like a brick, killing everyone inside. They are also built with a material stated to be unstable at atmospheric pressures and temperatures, though it's more likely that only pure Tritanium is unstable. Alloys of trit mixed with common elements may be far more stable. There are no anti-gravity engines displayed in EVE so far. While artificial gravity on par with Star Trek is shown (crews don't float around in zero-G), there is no evidence to suggest anti-gravity exists. This means landing ships must obey certain standard technology limits for avoiding said brick-landings. I don't see any thrusters that point down on those non-aerodynamic ships. The final answer is simple... dropships exist and are far more commonly used.
Dyniss Argent Uprising 6	Posted - 2012.03.21 08:02:00 - [15] - Quote I can see it now NEWS FLASH!! A fleet of Dominix's tried orbital entry today but as a witness reported it looked like someone opening a sack of potatoes
Dirty Teacher Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 2	Posted - 2012.03.21 08:12:00 - [16] - Quote i don't think the ship will crash on impact but will just get bumped away at great speed like what happens when you use a bm inside the star
Crellion Parental Control HELL4S 1	Posted - 2012.03.21 09:27:00 - [17] - Quote The answers including physics and science reasons why not are plain funny given how eve works (random loud space game with submarine physics bar collisions). The devs have as much as promised atmospheric flight in the big bold plans of the future. Dunno if it has been droped altogether... They might even include a mid slot given to a mod that stabilizes titanium alloys to satisfy some of the posters above (LOL). However I think it is not something that we will see even soonTM. If they ever did do it... it would be a very good chance to include a new pvp / pve combat environment where one actuallly flys the ship (something like X3R -X3TC physics and control). The haters need not yell so loud it will only be for the subgame ... This could create the subgame to tie in Dust with EvE... Perhaps they would already have done something like this if not for Vampires online and whatnot... tl;dr if the devs want it there is nothing to stop it and with luck it could even be good fun.
Murisha Helt paa tur 0	Posted - 2012.03.22 19:16:00 - [18] - Quote Daniel Plain wrote: i just imagined a rupture 'landing' on a planet, then slowly falling over and exploding like a stranded whale. Yes. Just like a whale. It's what whales do
Alberik Eusebius Corporation 4	Posted - 2012.03.22 19:40:00 - [19] - Quote Murisha wrote: Daniel Plain wrote: i just imagined a rupture 'landing' on a planet, then slowly falling over and exploding like a stranded whale. Yes. Just like a whale. It's what whales do exploding or stranding? watched once how they cut a week dead stranded whale into pieces in a harbor .. very stinky thing btw. there have to be ships able to land. the first refinery and the first ship array had to be build with a planet as base. or other way round (as the eve universe was settled from space) there must be a way to bring settlers down to the planets surfaces (which could be performed by a pure tritanium ship .. it will burn while landing so better leave soon). after all there is a courier mission including arctic warfare marines, wich i dont think are arctic warfare space marines. while they can be grown up on stations their destination is pretty sure on planets with some cold weather
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 11	Posted - 2012.03.22 21:18:00 - [20] - Quote Murisha wrote: Daniel Plain wrote: i just imagined a rupture 'landing' on a planet, then slowly falling over and exploding like a stranded whale. Yes. Just like a whale. It's what whales do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtVSzU20ZGk
Adacia Calla Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2012.03.22 21:26:00 - [21] - Quote I read something years ago that our ships cannot handle atmospheric flight because of something to do with either the engines or how the hulls are designed. I'll try to find it.... Test signature....forum not applying settings :(
Skorpynekomimi Omega Vector 148	Posted - 2012.03.22 21:50:00 - [22] - Quote Alberik wrote: Murisha wrote: Daniel Plain wrote: i just imagined a rupture 'landing' on a planet, then slowly falling over and exploding like a stranded whale. Yes. Just like a whale. It's what whales do exploding or stranding? watched once how they cut a week dead stranded whale into pieces in a harbor .. very stinky thing btw. there have to be ships able to land. the first refinery and the first ship array had to be build with a planet as base. or other way round (as the eve universe was settled from space) there must be a way to bring settlers down to the planets surfaces (which could be performed by a pure tritanium ship .. it will burn while landing so better leave soon). after all there is a courier mission including arctic warfare marines, wich i dont think are arctic warfare space marines. while they can be grown up on stations their destination is pretty sure on planets with some cold weather Space development was lost and regained. So, the initial space exploitation stuff would have been done with planetary materials. Then you'd have specific surface-capable craft. Mainly because you need obscene amounts of thrust, space-wise, to escape gravity wells. As for 'no thrusters pointing down'... Land the ship on it's arse, then. The Rupture would maybe balance like that. Some other ships, maaaaybe not.
Halete Almost Epic 40	Posted - 2012.03.23 10:21:00 - [23] - Quote Crellion wrote: The answers including physics and science reasons why not are plain funny given how eve works (random loud space game with submarine physics bar collisions). Except no, they're not funny, because we're quoting EVE Physics not real life Physics. You would actually have a point then. Particularly the cheaper materials used in ship manufacturing break up or flat out ignite in atmosphere. It has nothing to do with our science but what's written in the game. Hence, 'lore'. Generic small-time hero-tackle pilot with no relevance.
Corina Jarr Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built 618	Posted - 2012.03.23 20:10:00 - [24] - Quote The answer is simple. No. Tritainium (the main component of all ship hulls) explodes in oxygen. So unless the planet was sufficiently devoid of oxygen in its atmosphere (at which point landing is pointless...), the ship would explode before it could touch down.
Voidfinger The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore 8	Posted - 2012.03.24 00:23:00 - [25] - Quote Fictional game so I'll say yes. I had a crazy dream the other night anyway. In the dream it was kind of Dust like (I just got finished reading Templar 1) and basically I was fighting my ass off and the clouds pulled back and a Phoenix dropped through the clouds with massive thrusters blasting off and spouting missiles like a fire breathing angel of the heavens. Woke up from that dream like "Damn, that is sick" Though, Templar 1 stated that the Revelation was coming down through the atmosphere and only lost control when it was hit an extreme amounts of times. Then when the capsule pilot had the Gallente Dread doing the same thing ... just saying
Alexa Coates Lexa And Rob Industries 68	Posted - 2012.03.25 03:43:00 - [26] - Quote if tritanium catches fire in oxygen, then how does a ship have life support without combusting? WAKE UP PEOPLE IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY BY AMARRIAN PRIESTS. Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships!
Baneken Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate 82	Posted - 2012.03.25 04:50:00 - [27] - Quote Voidfinger wrote: Fictional game so I'll say yes. I had a crazy dream the other night anyway. In the dream it was kind of Dust like (I just got finished reading Templar 1) and basically I was fighting my ass off and the clouds pulled back and a Phoenix dropped through the clouds with massive thrusters blasting off and spouting missiles like a fire breathing angel of the heavens. Woke up from that dream like "Damn, that is sick" Though, Templar 1 stated that the Revelation was coming down through the atmosphere and only lost control when it was hit an extreme amounts of times. Then when the capsule pilot had the Gallente Dread doing the same thing ... just saying http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIniweFOthM doen't miss much from lading atmosphere part.
Voidfinger The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore 8	Posted - 2012.03.25 07:59:00 - [28] - Quote Baneken wrote: Voidfinger wrote: Fictional game so I'll say yes. I had a crazy dream the other night anyway. In the dream it was kind of Dust like (I just got finished reading Templar 1) and basically I was fighting my ass off and the clouds pulled back and a Phoenix dropped through the clouds with massive thrusters blasting off and spouting missiles like a fire breathing angel of the heavens. Woke up from that dream like "Damn, that is sick" Though, Templar 1 stated that the Revelation was coming down through the atmosphere and only lost control when it was hit an extreme amounts of times. Then when the capsule pilot had the Gallente Dread doing the same thing ... just saying http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIniweFOthM doesn't miss much from lading atmosphere part. edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNSSA8rerJ4&feature=related wind to 1:30 for galactica can't seem to find a one without crappy music on top oh well : / Oh man that was pretty cool! kinda like that but slower more controlled and a lot bigger bigger bigger :)
Jax Slizard Celerna 16	Posted - 2012.03.25 13:48:00 - [29] - Quote The escape velocity of earth is about 11 km/s at the surface. While Eve physics is wonky (as ships don't just keep accelerating forever in a vacuum,) you could just assume that any ship that could achieve a velocity greater than the escape velocity of whatever planet it lands on could take off, assuming that gravity didn't crush the ship like a bug (which it shouldn't, considering the weapon hits they take.) Or, you could actually look at some values of ships and mods.... Mass of Executioner: 1124000 kg Acceleration due to gravity of a roughly Earth-sized planet: 10m/s^2 Afterburner thrust (1MN ): 1500000 newtons (=1500000kgm/s^2) Assuming that the 112.5% of max speed actually represents the percentage of thrust an afterburner gives being 12.5: Thrust: 1500000/12.5100=12000000 Force down = Mass*Acceleration = 11240000 Force up = Thrust = 12000000 Net force up = 760000 Acceleration up = .67 Accel with AB running = 2 An executioner could barely take off under its own power, or easily with an AB. How about a Rupture? Mass of Rupture: 11650000 Gravity: 10 AB (10MN): 15000000 Derived Thrust: 120000000 Net force: 3500000 Acceleration: .3 A Rupture could still make it. A Raven? Mass: 99,300,000 Gravity: 10 AB (100MN): 150000000 Derived Thrust: 1200000000 Net Force= 873000000 Acceleration: 2.1 Apparently, a battleship could make it as easily as a ABing frigate. The idea is flawed, I admit, as its abusing at least one concrete assumption (the basic afterburner representing 12.5% of the actual thrust of the ship and using that number across the board,) and several others (like the numbers assigned to ship mass ect. are roleplay-accurate, and not just for game balance, and that all planets are more or less Earth-sized) However, if you want a mental justification for whether or not ships can take off of Earth-like planets, there you go.
Dyniss Argent Uprising 7	Posted - 2012.03.26 11:37:00 - [30] - Quote when a ship enters the atmosphere this is what happens http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h02a2HSB58M&feature=related

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