EVE Search - CCP: Please Disband the CSM

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

CCP: Please Disband the CSM

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.01 23:57:00 - [1] The creation of the CSM was supposed to be an interface point for interracting with the players, determining the player priorities and providing oversight of changes in the game. In reality it is a PR stunt, free trip to Iceland and an ego fluff for the members that were "elected" in a dubious process. As a player I don't see the value in the committee and don't want them feigning to speak for me. The fact that they seem to have 0 influence leads to the facade and thus the uselessness of the committee. And while you are at it, stop making wide sweeping massive changes in the entire game balance based upon the whines of the 10% of the eve population willing to participate in this sewer of a forum. Most of the people whining should, in my opinion, stop posting and start learnign how to play, thinking tactically and recognizing that the game should not be boiled down to who has the biggest gun. Thanks. We now return you to your regular whine and flame fest. P.S. No, I am not a nano ship junkie, I'm rarely in nano ships so nice try on that one.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.02 00:41:00 - [2] Edited by: Rells on 02/08/2008 00:41:17 Originally by: DubanFP I agree with rells. He doesn't explain it quite as I did, but his views mirror my own. The CSM and forum whiners only represent the views of those who want to change EVE, but ignores the view of those who see what doesn't need to change. In the end it just winds up with many people asking for changes while the many who don't always want change aren't being represented.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.02 00:48:00 - [3] Originally by: Abrazzar Rells: Please disband the Agony Empire. 10 points for failing to address the thread. 10 Bonus points for not even MENTIONING the content of the OP. 10 points for managing to post something that is not only pointless but stupid. 25 Bonus points for flamage and trollage ... Bzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Close but if you want to win the forums game you will need to make some assertion about the person that you know nothing about. Insulting one of their family members is also acceptable. Dont worry, you will get the hang of it. In the meantime the rest of us will talk about the topic at hand and resign ourselves to mediocrity when it comes to forum competitions.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.02 01:01:00 - [4] Finally an intelligent response! The fact that I don't completely agree doesn't mean it was a bad post. It was a good post. And so there is no misunderstanding, I am NOT being sarcastic. Since you want to have an intelligent convo .. lets do it. Originally by: Vaal Erit Once again I am going to point out that the nano-balance changes have absolutely nothing to do with forum whiners and as proof I offer 8+ months of live dev blogs and developer interviews stating that speed balance was on their agenda. I disagree. It has been a really long and volumous whine. Ever since the days of the nanophoon people have complained about speed. The reality is that taken individually many of their changes make sense but ALL of them being thrown at the game at once is over the top and the results can only be extremely erratic. The outcome of these changes on the game as a whole simply CANT be predicted. Originally by: Vaal Erit Unfortunately, instead of bringing up issues from the playerbase, the CSM candidates are ALL working towards their own selfish goals and not looking for the wealth and well-being of the entire EVE community. So the CSM fails like most poorly run government organizations in which they are not really held accountable to their constituents. DING! (You know, that psychologically calibrated ding that was attuned to keep you playing crappy lesser games far too long?) You hit the nail on the head there. Hence, what is the point of the stupid committee. Originally by: Vaal Erit For example, has any CSM member brought ideas to different forums/websites and ask opinions of many players in game? No, CSM members instead put in the least amount of effort and simply post on Assembly Hall and ask their friends ingame and think that is enough research into an issue. Hell, most CSM members don't even post/read the forums and when they do, post short one-liners in which you can actually see how inept they are. CSM Bane posted a decent thread on AH lately, but that is the exception, not the rule sadly. And furthermore few of them play. Agony Empire is a small alliance but due to our activities in the game we are very well known and we have contacts all over Eve and in most alliances. (This is despite the fact that we shoot everyone ) At any rate, the people that play this game regularly rather than the forums, dont spend a lot of time, if any, in the forums. Other than answering newbie questions, most AGONY wouldnt be caught dead here (not by corp policy btw, its their choice). There is just no way that an elected person who is popular enough to be well known on the forums could even pretend to represent the interests of the eve players. The reality is AGONY had no problem killing nano ships and we werent alone. There are a few abberations caused by implants, faction gear and so on but the solution to that is slow measured change, not dropping a huge balance shifting mamoth on the game. At any rate the nano changes are a side issue. The UI problems and Jita solution havent been prioritized. The Corp UI is still a steaming pile of what you get when you havent cleaned out the chicken coup in 2 years. There are any number of problems and issues in the game on the hotplate of the players who are actually logged into the game more than the forums and NONE of them have been adressed. The CSM is a complete and utter failure.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.02 01:03:00 - [5] Originally by: Crumplecorn Edited by: Crumplecorn on 02/08/2008 01:00:39 Originally by: Rells And while you are at it, stop making wide sweeping massive changes in the entire game balance based upon the whines of the 10% of the eve population willing to participate in this sewer of a forum. Since this obviously includes the OP, nothing more really needs to be said on that. I am here RARELY. Note the words VERY RARELY. I answer newbie questions now and then and subject myself to the pain of this place when something motivates me significantly to do so, but I am, by far, not a regular. Id rather play eve.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.02 01:09:00 - [6] Originally by: Tarminic So, Rells, what do you feel this thread will accomplish? Amuse me. Make me feel better. Not much more. I am under not illusions that it will change the world.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.02 01:12:00 - [7] Originally by: Faife Originally by: Rells I am here RARELY. Note the words VERY RARELY. I answer newbie questions now and then and subject myself to the pain of this place when something motivates me significantly to do so, but I am, by far, not a regular. Id rather play eve. shoot for rarer still. Pithy, but not very original.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.02 01:20:00 - [8] Originally by: Akita T FIRST Still, you claim (paraphrasing) the change was "based on the whines of some of the small percentage of people who actually post here". I really have to wonder wether you're simply trolling or downright misinformed. Well, duuh, it was so damned obvious something WAS wrong, you didn't need any "whines on forum" to see it. The only difference was that the forum noise propelled it into a higher tier of urgency... nothing more, nothing less. As for MY ideas on how things should have been handled (if you care, but I bet you don't)... the thread is linked in my sig, and it's a fairly old thread already (by forum standards, that is). Well I dont agree with you completely but good post all the same. I actually never saw mcuh wrong with speed ships except for the extreme examples such as the drake that was observed doing 9km/s. I feel that a series of small changes could have solved that issue without radically altering the balance of the game. Ideas that came to mind are things like ship class based nanofibers (separate one for each of the frigs, crusiers and BSes.) Other ideas would be to simply nerf the high cost faction gear that are the cornerstone of the problem. That faction gear is small in supply and wouldnt affect the eve base nearly as much. In essence I would suggest small incremental shifts rather than massive nerfs across the board.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.02 01:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Crumplecorn That just makes you less motivated than those who, for example, post braindead suicide ganking whines day after day after day. Wait ... so I dont misunderstand ... you are saying I am less motivated because I would rather play the game then play forum wars? Originally by: Crumplecorn Sure, the media we have to interact with CCP, the fora and the CSM, are both fairly crap. But, EVE can broadly be divided into those who do the best with what they have, and those who don't care enough to do so. By design. There are other ways to interract. Program an in-game voting mechanism. Open up the bug tracking database to be public for anything not an exploit and allow players to see progress on an issue and vote on issues like in the Apache software foundation projects. They could design in-game mechanisms for gaining feedback that note you using a specific ship and ask you to participate in a survey about what needs to change iwth that ship. There are tons of ideas that dsimply havent happened. Originally by: Crumplecorn You know how you have no right to be **ed off at the result of an election you didn't bother voting in? It's kind of like that. If the supposed 90% started posting, they'd completely overwhelm everything currently on the forum with what they chose to say. But they don't, so the limited control the playerbase have over EVE rests with the supposed 10% who do. I dont like participating in farces. And the notion that its good that people dont participate because it would overwhelm the system is vacuous. Originally by:** Crumplecorn If you want CCP to disband the CSM because it is not effective, you may as well ask them to shut off the forums too, and cut the players off from the development process completely. This, of course, isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it is the logical conclusion of your suggestion. Although the forums have use for players connecting with players and answering quesitons, driving development from forum consensus is crazy. You cant proclaim a consensus on an issue with a quorum of 10%! Development should be driven by vision and goals and feedback needs to come from a source with significantly higher participation such as methods I mentioned above.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.02 01:33:00 - [10] Originally by: kryptteacher rells have you been able to test the proposed changes yet? Yes. I and the rest of AGONY spend extensive time on SISI testing things. AF and Bomber changes are good. Recalibration for MWDs makes sense. The rest s over the top and damaging. Interestingly one of the techniques AGONY uses to combat nano ships has just become much harder. Fishing (the process of killing interceptors and interdictors with tech 1 frigates) is MUCH more difficult now because of the web changes for example.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.02 02:34:00 - [11] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Stitcher Maybe if more than 10% of the players had bothered to vote, it would be a little more representative? And, who knows, maybe the results would have been exactly the same. Voter apathy can hardly be blamed on CCP. Probably not as nomatter who gets voted in they will get to decide on matters they have no clue about without doing even basic research. And chances are that the majority on any given council of 10 wont really know the issue presented. The problem is that few people want to come here and voice their ideas and be subject to the garbage that goes on here on a routine basis. Most would rather play the game. The fact that CCP has failed to get meaningful global input is related to their lack of vision and not much more. Ideas have been proposed for 4 years for attaining this feedback and 4 years later those features are still in the same patch as the Corp Interface rewrite.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.02 02:38:00 - [12] Originally by: Raging Negotiator Adapt or die, right? Another vacuous argument. The fact that people will adapt does not change the relative meter of a thing. A couple years ago a volcano erupted on a small island in the pacific. After being nearly wiped out the people adapted and overcame. Does that mean the volcanic eruption was good? The whole "adapt or die" thing is apparent and unnecessary.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.03 05:51:00 - [13] Originally by: NeoTheo having said that, your above post is a disguised whine about nerfs, nothing more nothing less, you can't tag "btw i dont fly nano ships" on the end and think that makes the obvious vitrol *******s of your whine go away. tell you what, did the game work before polycarbs? ohh yes it did. Tell you what, you go look me up on Battleclinic and look at the ships I fly and then I will accept your apology and admission that you were wrong in your uneducated assessments about me.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.03 06:00:00 - [14] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: RuleoftheBone What exactly is this supposed to mean? Seriously? Are you in some way feeling that threatened by criticism that oblique references such as the above are going to make such criticism cease? It means that I think you're probably a giant internet poseur who will shrivel up and hide in dark corners rather than come and share "your opinions" face to face in a bar Rule. :~ Basically I don't think you have the guts to do anything of moment. Whether that be standing for an internet election, having a face to face discussion, or anything else that means you have to get out from behind the keyboard and actually persuade somebody of the merit of your opinions. Belligerent and dangerous statements to make about people you have never met, known or seen. For all you know RuleOfTheBone is built like Mike Tyson. Personally I dont give a damn about your ego, Id say anything to your face that I would say here.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.03 06:08:00 - [15] Originally by: Sergio Ling Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/08/2008 16:47:17 Originally by: Verone Awesome CSM front there Jade, awesome. A player voicing his concern and stating his opinion is a waste of time? Oh, hang on... wasn't the CSM supposed to listen to everyone? I believe you've just failed at the first hurdle, yet again. As for dropping out of the election, it's the best descision I ever made in Eve. Actually Verone in this thread you are behaving like a "whiner" not a player. I'm happy to listen to players. I really don't care about "whiners" in the least. Your post above is just a lot of hot air and nonsense. I'm gonna chime in at this point, and have my opinion invalidated because I'm likely seen as one of V's croneys We heve different opinions him and I, and we have some similar opinions. I've not even read the entire thread, but it got to this, and I'm a little shocked. The leader of an elected body can come to virtual blows with one of the people he allegedly represents because he sees him as a whiner and not a player? Because you don't value the opinion of a person who is stating it, you get to dismiss it and ridicule it? You're simply reinforcing the calls of you being an agenda-driven power-mad spaceship captain. Wow. What a great post. If anything the repies from the CSMs have put the OP in bold. quod erat demonstrandom
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.03 06:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Olli Hokkanen CSM system is good as it is now, agony is mad because they are so hated that no one of them was elected to be one No one in AGONY that I am aware of thought it was anything other than a joke and a PR stunt. The appalling lack of professionalism on behalf of the CSMs here just proves the original point. Were there to be a point to the CSM work, it would have to be an organization that isnt a popularity contest, and had clout in CCP. This CSM has neither. The CSMs should be more interested in improving the game than foruming and flaming players of this game with long standing and experience. They should be involved in doing something that has an effect of improving the game as a whole. They should be people actively involved in the game outside of the CSM work. Prominent CEO's and people running major game organizations would be good choices, not the most popular forum ***s. Originally by:** Abrazzar Rells for CSM! I dont think they would like that. And unless the CSM was going to be 1) useful and 2) have authority, I wouldnt like it either.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.04 02:26:00 - [17] Originally by: Sirial Soulfly Originally by: Leviathan9 Have the CSM even done anything?? A lot more than than all the people standing on the sideline spewing bile id wager. At the risk of being presumptuous I would say that Agony Unleashed has done far more for this game than the entire CSM. With every flame post Jade proves my original assessment of the committee accurate. The idea of some well-known and respected players being hand selected by CCP has merit but if they dont have the ability to affect the process within CCP, it would still be a farce. As for the current CSM, it is a complete farce and one that it seems many people are not taken in by.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.05 00:39:00 - [18] Originally by: copasetic sideways token player council is token. why would the op even care? sheez. Because they advertise that they are speaking for the players, and CCP advertises that they are speaking for the players and it is a fraud. The CSM is a PR stunt with no substance and, as we have seen in this thread, little integrity. CCP should not be listening to these people any more than any other random group of people on the forums.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Steve Hawkings After reading that leaked post i want them disbanded as the conversations sounded like small kids with nerd rage. And they are supposed to be representing us.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.