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CCP: Please Disband the CSM

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Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 02:44:00 - [1] Originally by: Rells The CSM is a complete and utter failure. I for one, agree. I'm also intrigued to see where the cutbacks have been made in CCP's offerings to the playerbase to be able to manage and devote so much time to the CSM. I'm sure they'll rear their head and become apparent at some point. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 03:16:00 - [2] Originally by: kryptteacher contribute to the thread ... state some reasons. It's a waste of time because the CSM has no real power. It's a waste of time because there's a big pile of heavily biased people as representatives. It's a waste of time because the chairman is overzealous, which has been proven. It's a waste of time because regardless, players should never have the ability to decide on how it's developed. It's a waste of time because the CSM is a hollow shadow of what it was originally intended to be, after the recent unpleasentness. It's a waste of time because more than anything people are whinging about nerfing and boosting ships rather than actual game issues. There are thousands more reasons, but frankly I can't be arsed to type them all. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 16:51:00 - [3] Originally by: Jade Constantine Actually Verone in this thread you are behaving like a "whiner" not a player. I'm happy to listen to players. I really don't care about "whiners" in the least. Your post above is just a lot of hot air and nonsense. Voicing my concerns isn't whining, I'm not whining and demanding a thing, I'm simply pointing out flaws. It's easy to act the child and brand anything you don't agree with a "whine" Jade. Quite a few people share the same opinion as myself. Why do you think only some 11% of the playerbase voted on the CSM elections? Most see it as a publi**y stunt and a waste of time. I actually wanted it to be something, sadly those hopes were hollow. Originally by:** Jade Constantine I don't really care what you do Verone. I lost all respect for you a while ago. I've never needed nor wanted your respect. All I've seen from you in five years is trashtalk, agression, and downright out of character hostility toward other players coupled with immeasurable arrogance. Originally by: Jade Constantine Sorry Verone, I didn't get elected act like your fall guy. You want my respect again you'll have to earn it. But I've seen precisely nothing from you for a long time that isn't obnoxious and arrogant. Take a look in the mirror Verone. I don't want your respect, moreover I don't need it. I'm glad you don't want to act like my fall guy, that's not what I'm asking. What I'm asking you to do is perform the task you were elected to do, which is to lead without severe bias. You were ELECTED. An election denote democracy. Act like it. You haven't seem anything from me that isn't obnoxious or arrogant because my personality as a player and indeed a person is like a mirror. I bounce back exactly what I recieve, hence the reason I get on very well with 99.9% of the people I speak to. It's also the reason you're seeing a side of me you apparently don't much like, I'm mirroring the exact same treatment you're giving me, and the rest of the community who have the gall to openly disagree with you. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 16:54:00 - [4] Originally by: Jade Constantine Basically I don't think you have the guts to do anything of moment. Whether that be standing for an internet election, having a face to face discussion, or anything else that means you have to get out from behind the keyboard and actually persuade somebody of the merit of your opinions. To be honest, I'd walk away from a face to face discussion with you after about thirty seconds. Something tells me you'll do nothing but interrupt people, speak over people and generally try to force your words over the top of other people. I've got no time for people who aren't willing to listen to the opinions of others. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 16:57:00 - [5] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Verone ... I get on very well with 99.9% of the people I speak to. You really should talk to ex veto members more ... just saying. The key here is ex. If people don't like the way I lead, they leave or get booted. It's their choice. The fact that members keep coming back time and time again after trying other things says I'm doing something right. I run my corp as a dictatorship, I don't masquerade as a democatic leader then try to silence people. I find it amusing though, that you pull the discussion away from the CSM and to my corp, and persona as a player. I guess I hit a nerve. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 16:58:00 - [6] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Verone ... I get on very well with 99.9% of the people I speak to. You really should talk to ex veto members more ... just saying. Wait, what? I'm yet to talk to any ex-veto guys, who doesn't get on with Verone. Also, the fact you had to bring out those kinds of arguments, is just sad. If you have to actually resort to such things, you might just not post at all. Exactly my thoughts Vista. Sadly some people are shallow enough to resort to veiled personal attacks, it's just the way of the internets. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 17:04:00 - [7] Originally by: Jade Constantine Funny how thats generally the feedback we get from ex-veto. Seriously Verone, you are embarrassing yourself now. Presenting yourself as some kind of a paragon of virtue in an internet debate is laughable. You've clearly been bored and annoyed with Eve online for a while now and the cynical veteran syndrome is making you act poorly. I have no idea why you decided to pull out of the CSM elections but your bitterness over that affair is leaking into all your public discussions and its been noted by many people. I have no need to defend myself to you of all people. I'd advise you to walk away while you still have a little dignity. Losing calm now Jade, starting to get annoyed and losing sight of the issues and opinions I've put forward? It seems like your posts are degenorating more and more into personal attacks when the pressure is put on. I'm not bored or annoyed with Eve, I have a wonderful corporation full of the finest people I've ever had the pleasure to play online with. I've taken part in two alliance tournaments, wrote countless pieces of backstory, fiction, and articles for E-ON along with guides on these forums. I've met some of the finest people I've ever spoken to, shared drinks with them and been given the opportunity to fly a number of times to the very home of CCP and meet some of the finest, most professional and skilled game developers in the business. So no, I'm not bored with Eve. Ambulation and The Empyrean Age has broadened my horizons. I suggest you try another personal attack, because clearly trying to insult my love for the game doesn't work. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 17:07:00 - [8] Originally by: Jade Constantine But not you eh Verone? All is fair when you are on the offensive but somebody dares to suggest you might be a little more introspective and suddenly you cry "no fair" and "personal attack." Review your posting in this thread perhaps? End of the day I've simply said that your high-opinion of yourself is not really justified by the opinions of other players in this game. You made it personal Verone, don't cry about it if you end up getting a bit of criticism in return. I imagine there are players that enjoy your "dictatorial style" there are others that don't. You (like everyone on this planet) are liked by some, and others you rub up the wrong way. You are not different or special and passing yourself off as some kind of paragon of righteous while engaging in an internet flame war won't win you any particular credibility. What you interpret is a personal attack is your own opinion not mine. I've never taken a shot at you personally, just your attitude and your arrogance toward people who disagree with you. It's admirable that you speak with so much passion, sadly the agression you have is severely misplaced. It was you who pulled my leadership, and other people's "opinions" of me into the spotlight in an attempt to take a shot at the player behind this avatar. Sorry mate, but trying to turn this 180 doesn't float with me. Try harder. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 17:08:00 - [9] Originally by: Dionisius Well well, now this debate is going too nice places... Before things get more dark and emo here's the most important thing said by one of the players, Quote: Balance should be up to CCP to decide, not the playerbase. Ironically, that was me. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 17:09:00 - [10] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Verone Losing calm now Jade, starting to get annoyed ... I suggest you go make a nice cup of tea and then maybe go for a walk in the summer evening. Turning a question into a statement for purposes of humor, by removing puncuation... You're a dab hand at editing and changing the interpritation of what people say, I'll give you that. I've never seen someone with such an ability to twist people's words, it's almost admirable. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 17:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Verone Losing calm now Jade, starting to get annoyed ... I suggest you go make a nice cup of tea and then maybe go for a walk in the summer evening. Thats some fine selective quoting there... he meant you and you know it. I think you should both step away from the keyboard and think about spending your saturday evening doing something else. lol, Hai Jim! I'm fine mate... I have logistics to take care of in game, so the forums are a place to browse while I do so. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 17:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Viqtoria What's with all this 'meeting people at fanfests', 'internet toughguys' and you got 'no guts' rubbish. Your question, and mine. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 17:23:00 - [13] rofl. Point proven. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 17:38:00 - [14] Originally by: Joss Sparq "lol" I wholeheartedly endorse, support and give funding to this opinion and movement. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 18:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: new york times Hilmar Petursson, CCPÆs chief executive, said in a telephone interview. ôEve Online is not a computer game. It is an emerging nation, and we have to address it like a nation being accused of corruption... where you announce your candidacy, and if you win the election, they come here to Iceland, and they can look at every nook and cranny and get to see that we are here to run this company on a professional basis Yup, I'm with you on this one mate. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 18:45:00 - [16] Originally by: isdisco3 ....I do think his rants against Jade are not constructive.... I will point out here that the things I've said aren't against Jade, they're against the manner in which he is leading the CSM. While I'm taking a shot at the way the CSM is being lead, I'm not taking a shot at him unless it's in self defense for the personal attacks being thrown at myself in response to my opinions. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.02 21:22:00 - [17] Originally by: Tempus Iskander Originally by: isdisco3 To conclude, and in the interest of fairness, I am ex-veto and I like Verone. I do think his rants against Jade are not constructive and don't really help things, but I do think that Jade as an "elected official" (that 11% went pretty overwhelmingly for him) needs to learn PR and ignore such insults / abuses. Dude Verone comes across as a bitter old vet complaining he didn't get elected he's like goumindong really. You gotta expect the rough with the smooth if you get to attacking someone on teh forums. lol, I wasn't even in the running when the elections came around.... I pulled out VOLUNTARILY, off my own back after realising how utterly pointless the CSM would be. Try again. Also, post with your main. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.03 16:18:00 - [18] Originally by: Gone'Postal (thank god, we might get someone not on a personal power trip) We can only hope. As soon as I saw Jade would be chairing the CSM, I had a feeling things would go one of two ways : 1) Things would be awesome, there'd be a lot of dedication, massive long 10,000 character posts to explain everything, and someone going to CCP fighting for player views with conviction. 2) Things would be terrible, a complete ego trip, attacking anyone who disagreed with him to retain his position, silencing those who didn't agree with him and generally trying to push his own agenda. I GENUINELY hoped for the first, now after being attacked on such a personal level as being called a shortarse **, a **er, a prat, a moron, an idiot and a fool, I can see that first option never realistic. Shame really, the CSM could have been something. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.03 17:01:00 - [19] Actually... it's amusing to look deeper and see just how many things are getting to the CSM's table that are proposed by Jade's corp members... ...funny, that. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.03 17:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Frug You should have run. Don't get me wrong, I love Eve, and CCP is packed to the brim with good people who want nothing but the best for it, and us. Regardless of that, it's been proven by the playerbase that the CSM is a bad idea and the resources would have been better used elsewhere. Something like this can never bring the community together. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.03 17:30:00 - [21] Originally by: Zeba Not that I'm disagreeing with you as a whole Verone but what resources? I'd hardly think a few thousand dollars to fly them to Iceland and a few megabits of internets to spam the forums with will make any difference to the game. The three days or so of developer time they spend putting a number of developers in a room and taking them away from their regular posts? All the organisational time that it takes to sort out flying them halfway across the world in some cases? Setting up the meetings? I'm not talking literal "resources" more along the lines of the amount of time taken to actually pull the whole thing off, when it's clearly not going anywhere and just causing massive forum arguments because of the chair's immense ego trip. In my opinion, even putting that extra few thousand dollars into server hardware, or towards this new super computer is money better spent than putting together the CSM. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.03 17:39:00 - [22] Originally by: Frug Ironically I think this whole CSM thing would be greatly assisted by more CCP influence and guidance. Part of the problem here is that the position of the CSM and members isn't clearly defined (Why the hell are they just taking votes on random balance issues? What is that crap? Can you say conflict of interest? If you like the new FOTM vote yes for this proposal? Please.) and that too many issues are just getting tossed out there. I don't know that bringing this community together is really necessary. I don't believe the CSM needs any more influence than it currently has either. It is a means of player communication and oversight by non-employees, not whatever the hell people are making it out to be. While I still see the CSM as a failure so far, I do agree that if it was to continue it needs a fresh rethink and a lot more influence and guidance from CCP. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.03 19:12:00 - [23] Originally by: Frug give it another few months, another election, and go from there. And run this time. Oh, I think another election and a couple of new faces won't do the CSM any harm at all. I'll be interested to see if things actually pick up. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.04 09:36:00 - [24] Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte Originally by: Jade Constantine Quote: And you want me to waste my time putting together proposals on the Assembly Hall, only for them to be knocked back because they don't fit with your agenda? I don't really care what you do Verone. I lost all respect for you a while ago. Quote: Get real mate, I'll start posting ideas when you start LEADING the CSM without bias and without being obnoxious and arrogant to everyone who has the gall to put negative opinions forward. Sorry Verone, I didn't get elected to act like your fall guy and take nonsense from your emo cynicism. You want my respect again you'll have to earn it. But I've seen precisely nothing from you for a long time that isn't obnoxious and arrogant. Take a look in the mirror Verone. beating the dead(?) horse again ... BUT ... if it's a question of respect (that has to be earned ) if a proposal to the CSM is dealt with, wouldn't this be exactly the thing that verone is accusing you? you got elected to represent the playerbase. but suddenly only opinions of people that you "respect" are relevant? either a.)the CSM tries to evaluate proposals on the facts about the game - imho the task of the CSM is NOT to give CCP solutions, they should be more like "gathering informations" and (re-)distribute them between CCP and playerbase .. therefore your personal problems with verone ARE NOT relevant to the discussion of the CSM (unless you want to prove verones point). or b.)the CSM stops claiming the morale highground of "democratic legitimation" and loses therefore ANY legitimation to the playerbase it might have. if you think now this criticism is unfair against you, then i want you to remember that you're NOT some random player with an opinion, but a member of the CSM. you don't have listen to personal attacks (well, as long they are not profound criticism) but you HAVE to listen to any proposal regarding EVE - even from people you don't like. Exactly my point. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 02:38:00 - [25] Originally by: Rells Originally by: Steve Hawkings After reading that leaked post i want them disbanded as the conversations sounded like small kids with nerd rage. And they are supposed to be representing us. I'm glad I wasn't part of the log to be honest, other than being insulted in it. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.08.05 09:53:00 - [26] Originally by: Nuyan Zahedi Why exactly did this topic actually get deleted? I bet that's the question on a lot of people's lips. \o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/ >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<

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