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VIXIT CORP
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Posted - 2004.05.30 07:52:00 -
[1]
Doing missions allmost my entire EvE live, i like them so please don't flame me but. What about the fact that this time you will not come up to the missionspawn you expected but guys in BS's, who afcourse nail you instantly. The missions points are not random so Player Pirates do know them now.
CU in EvE and have Fun!
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Darrin Tobruk
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Posted - 2004.05.30 09:18:00 -
[2]
Nope, not an exploit. It's a bit of a lame tactic, in my opinion, to camp an agent bookmark in 0.4 and lower sec space, but not an exploit. What system was it?
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Eris Discordia: On the scale of funny and constructive it scores low, real low. |
Destruct
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Posted - 2004.05.30 10:03:00 -
[3]
i would petition. there's a good chance you'll get your stuff back and the mission reset.
You can get more of what you want with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word. - Al Capone
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kyuuki
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Posted - 2004.05.30 11:11:00 -
[4]
can i make a quick guess, was it ostingle?
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.05.30 11:31:00 -
[5]
um, why should it be an exploit?
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Kate Libby
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Posted - 2004.05.30 12:15:00 -
[6]
hmm u can always check local.. if u see unlawfull players then u have to reconsider it. though i must say that it would be good if ccp makes the locations random. as it's pretty lame for the mission runner to get a mission for killing one bs and get 3 or more.. 
Just checking my sexy tools...
ASCI - Neutralized Ships
[-]i¦m too old for th |
Chrome Born
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Posted - 2004.05.30 12:31:00 -
[7]
Post the name of the system this happened in am sure there are a lot more agent runners in the game than pirates atm 
Chrome Born.
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Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.05.30 13:06:00 -
[8]
From what I've heard camping agent mission spawns is an exploit. Even if its not, its pretty damn lame.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.05.30 13:12:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Silverlancer
From what I've heard camping agent mission spawns is an exploit. Even if its not, its pretty damn lame.
No its not an exploit, stop spreading misinformation.
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Mikesnail
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Posted - 2004.05.30 13:28:00 -
[10]
its NOT an exploit, why would it be? .. many missions take place in spawns that are located at planets, or moons or whatever, which are accesable to everyone, not just mission runners. There therefore just as much a danger zone as flying into a a low sec belt.
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Clipped Wings
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Posted - 2004.05.30 14:26:00 -
[11]
Main problem is, that although the mission bookmarks -should- be random, they, in fact, are not.
I reckon the reason for this is that several agents can share the same mission points, hence, less randomizing need for the server cluster.
Main problem is, that in low sec space, pirates can have access to said mission points as well - in which case you're in trouble. It's not an exploit, to my knowledge, but I agree it's rather low. Mainly because not only will you (if the pirates know what they're doing) lose your ship, you'll also be unable to complete the mission. Only way to fix it would be to open fire first, which would then give you sec rating loss.
-Clipped Wings of LFC
"I believe in the theoretical benevolence, and practical malignity of man."
~William Hazlitt
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MooKids
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Posted - 2004.05.30 16:09:00 -
[12]
It is probably just as lame as JIP camping.
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CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
Scorpyn
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Posted - 2004.05.30 18:24:00 -
[13]
Camping mission spawns - now there's something that sounds REALLY boring!
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Vacuole
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Posted - 2004.05.31 05:47:00 -
[14]
Exploits are things that take advantage of poor game programming and such. You know, for whatever reason sentry guns don't fire when they should.. that kind of thing.
In my opinion, to figure out if its an exploit, see it it makes any sense in real life.
Does it make any sense that people that are privy to the mission location, may lie in wait for you, as you approach?
In my view, the answer is yes. It does make sense that people might do such a thing, so it doesn;t seem like an exploit.
But.. in their neverending quest to appease paying customers, and if the problem is widespread, they may return items and reprogram the game to make the spawn locations more random. Who knows.
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War Games
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Posted - 2004.05.31 06:36:00 -
[15]
Vacuole... Honestly that's the dumbest thing you have everposted... Your agent gives you a supposedly random location where pirates are going to be "passing through the area" and when you arrive you find 15 battleships that gank not only you but the 15 other local pilots who have tried to complete this mission the past hour.... LAME... this isn't tactics this is greifing... Especially since you can't talk to your agent who could decend the power of concord upon the pirates that are obstructing their agents (the player trying to complete the mission) when outlaws sit in empire obstructing justice.... sorry... lame.. lame lame lame... anyways... we can't be talking about exploits in this forum... it's in the rules of the forums... so IBTL for this thread...
What Eve Dev's really think of you! |
thdrox
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Posted - 2004.05.31 07:37:00 -
[16]
Edited by: thdrox on 31/05/2004 07:38:07
Originally by: Destruct
i would petition. there's a good chance you'll get your stuff back and the mission reset.
Lol.... You must know a different CCP to me, mine are about as likely to replace a ship as they are to not make any sweeping and unnessecary changes to the game in a given 3 month period
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Etoile Chercheur
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Posted - 2004.05.31 09:11:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Etoile Chercheur on 31/05/2004 10:28:11
i'd have to agree that it's a lame tactic, but not an exploit. i've seen an exploit defined as an action taken against other players for which they have no in-game defense. the defense in this case would be to simply not do missions, or approach mission locations at 60km from an unlikely direction. be smart.
this does make mission running for higher level agents rather unpopular, however. those that do this could be said to be griefing. they're ruining another's enjoyment of the game for their own pleasure.
there do seem to be precious few locations in the game where pirates can go to prey upon spacefarers, though. in 0.0, the population is too sparse and too powerful when it's gathered in numbers. in Empire space, sentries guard every major throughway and station. it's a tough problem. how do you please both parties?
personally, i don't see what "pirates" (these are gankers, not pirates, as pirates bother to ransom their victims) are doing in Empire space when there's so much fighting going on in 0.0. if they want a fight, why pick on Empire pilots?
answer: because they like to win without risk.
they know that whoever is going to show up will likely show up alone and fitted for battle with npcs, not gankers. like all bullies, they prey upon the smaller and weaker.
Viceroy, i'd begun to respect you, as i usually find your posts quite funny, and i understood that Space Invaders had taken up the role of honorable pirates, releasing those that paid their tolls. seeing you in support of such a lame, carebear tactic, however, forces me to change my mind. yeah, i said carebear. carebear because carebears avoid a fight, and a one-sided gank-fest a pilot at a time is hardly what i'd call battle. yes, i'm perfectly aware you couldn't care less. who said i care a pile of fetid dingo's kidney's about what you think? you can save your flames. i'm really speaking to the other innocents here.
i'm most disappointed in this latest change in SI's attitude about pirating.
Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) | Hadean Drive Yards
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Destruct
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Posted - 2004.05.31 09:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: thdrox
Edited by: thdrox on 31/05/2004 07:38:07
Originally by: Destruct
i would petition. there's a good chance you'll get your stuff back and the mission reset.
Lol.... You must know a different CCP to me, mine are about as likely to replace a ship as they are to not make any sweeping and unnessecary changes to the game in a given 3 month period
well, i've gotten an armageddon and all equipment back. i didn't lose the armageddon doing agent missions but i would say there is definately a chance. ccp has also lightened up their policy regarding reimbursement as i understand.
You can get more of what you want with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word. - Al Capone
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mafish
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Posted - 2004.05.31 13:45:00 -
[19]
man i would totally petision that i mean why should you be able to get killed at say a planet spawn in 0.4-0.1 i blame those gun things they need to be nurfed or removed
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.05.31 13:56:00 -
[20]
It's not an exploit and if CCP or the GM's decide it is than it's stupid. I don't even view this as a low tactic it's just a few people playing the game and doing it well or at least better than the people that get ganked. It does suck to get ganked when peacefully doing missions but the world of EVE is not a peaceful place so deal with it.
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Capacitor research |
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Russ1
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Posted - 2004.06.01 02:08:00 -
[21]
This should be an exploit. The only reason these points are not random points in space is a limitation of the game. I doubt a corp agent would send ppl to the same spot continuously to kill the same guys if the programmers could code it easier. The only way you should know the point the agent is sending someone is by espionage...and that is not in-game just yet (Soon TM I am sure).
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Trevedian
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Posted - 2004.06.01 04:35:00 -
[22]
Carebear why doth thou venture out of station? Silence ye impotent foo!
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
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Crimson Djinn
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Posted - 2004.06.01 08:18:00 -
[23]
mmm camping at agent mission spawns... thanks for the tip guys. I'll have to try this... 
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Dezzyb0y
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Posted - 2004.06.01 10:43:00 -
[24]
Its not a lame tactic who wants to sell me some agent bm's?
Nice easy time ransoming people me thinks =D
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K4rls 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Republic Fleet Testing Facilities, wrecking for 1395.9 damage
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.06.01 11:31:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Feta Solamnia on 01/06/2004 11:59:45
Ok, here's my view on the thingie:
Please note that I hardly do any missions, and those are in secure space.
Also I've never been ganked this way, so I'm simly stating a neutral opinion.
AFAIK, a mmorpg "exploit" is a way to overcome limitations imposed by the game via "abusing" weak game mechanics.
So, if this statement stands, we can have:
If CCP intended mission rats to spawn randomly, then yes, this is an exploit.
If CCP wanted mission rats to spawn at the same locations (and it is NEVER next to planets, it's just a few 100k's of km away), then it is not an exploit.
Judging my a devs post (TomB i think), where he said that they are trying to make rat spawns truly random (hence the bug of station-camping mission rats), I can say that technically this is an exploit.
EDIT: afaik again, eve official exploits are announced by the devs. Since this has not been officially anounced, it's only a "theoretical exploit", who's mechanics will probably be fixed SOON(tm).
In essence, eve exploits are the game mechanics CCP doesn't change on detection, they just name it an exploit and pass on the burden (exactly as in "known program bugs", or "features" in M$ talk)
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Kildarin Farushna
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Posted - 2004.06.01 11:40:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Kildarin Farushna on 01/06/2004 11:44:20
Originally by: Russ1
This should be an exploit. The only reason these points are not random points in space is a limitation of the game. I doubt a corp agent would send ppl to the same spot continuously to kill the same guys if the programmers could code it easier. The only way you should know the point the agent is sending someone is by espionage...and that is not in-game just yet (Soon TM I am sure).
This is no exploit.. my ass
Everything is nowa days a exploit... to everyone
"foock i'm out of ammo, I cant warp out and pirate is ganking me. Aargh he destroyed me, @@#$@ (cry cry), few minutes later: i'll petition him and start wining topic. this is a Exploit."
beginning a Wining topic is a real exploit.
Grow up. Play the game or don't play at all.
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->Lawless<-
>>>New Formula<<<
>>In your local 0.4 system soon<<
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Russ1
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Posted - 2004.06.01 12:22:00 -
[27]
At least Feta had a good point. Can anyone come up with a rational arguement or just whine and call us carebares? Never had a problem with this myself, but it should be fixed--course I would rather have Shiva first.
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Arianda Knowles
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Posted - 2004.06.01 13:04:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Arianda Knowles on 01/06/2004 13:08:23
Even if spawns were random, smart pirates would still be camping the spawns.Lets say you find a popular agent (you find out by checking his transactions) that gives a kill mission to a 0.0-0.4 system a few jumps out.Obviously the NPC's would spawn after the mission has been accepted, at a random point somewhere in the system.. well that means you have enough time to locate the random point and get there before the agent runner does, and still gank him.
So even with random points, smart pirates will still be able to gank you because he'll be at the random point before you are.So really, nothing changes.
Also, simply by being in the right place at the right time does not make you an exploiter.Space is free-for-all.There are no no-go area's that only the agent runner is supposed to go.All a player has to do is pop open his scanner, and he can find a so called random NPC kill mission spawn in minutes.So making them random will not change diddly squat.
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.06.01 13:10:00 -
[29]
triangulate, half-jump and mwd just to gank one person that might even be in a kestrel?????
Anyone with that much patience and skills should be hunting safespots, not trying to gank some ppl that run lvl3 missions.
I doubt that anyone will ever try this once spawns are truly randm, it's just absurd.
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Arianda Knowles
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Posted - 2004.06.01 13:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Feta Solamnia
triangulate, half-jump and mwd just to gank one person that might even be in a kestrel?????
Anyone with that much patience and skills should be hunting safespots, not trying to gank some ppl that run lvl3 missions.
I doubt that anyone will ever try this once spawns are truly randm, it's just absurd.
level 3 missions in a kestrel, after the cruise missile nerf?Those types of agent runner are already rare.. the main bulk of people are in tier 1/2 battleships, and since they carry modules for combat it could be worth it.Agreed, this sort of thing would be pretty rare since there aren't that many pirates out there who bother to learn how to use their scanner, but i think anything that is rarely done and strays away from the norm (0.0 gate camping, yawn  ) is allot of fun. 
Just keep scanner open and an eye on agent transactions and you could find this type of piracy lucrative, especially during primetime.
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Russ1
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Posted - 2004.06.01 13:27:00 -
[31]
Fine points Arianda. Yes, agents do give kill missions to the same systems quite a bit, but I doubt if gankers would have the patience to time this out. The gankers are doing this because it is easy, not because they are looking for a challenge. If they truely want PvP, they should fight somebody that wants to fight them.
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Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2004.06.01 13:52:00 -
[32]
well, it's not just a crazy thing to do. It's more like impossible.
Spotting a safespot should take way more than an hour, and those safespots are usually made by a halfjump.
The agent runner will be there and back within 15-20 mins max.
Imagine now of random spawn locations that are not between two jumpable objects... TOTALLY impossible.
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Destruct
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Posted - 2004.06.01 14:52:00 -
[33]
i just got a reply from a gm and he answered that this is not an exploit.
You can get more of what you want with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word. - Al Capone
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Arianda Knowles
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Posted - 2004.06.01 15:08:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Feta Solamnia
well, it's not just a crazy thing to do. It's more like impossible.
Spotting a safespot should take way more than an hour, and those safespots are usually made by a halfjump.
The agent runner will be there and back within 15-20 mins max.
Imagine now of random spawn locations that are not between two jumpable objects... TOTALLY impossible.
You're forgetting one thing: the ganker would be an agent runner himself (obviously, otherwise he wouldn't know about the mission in question) which means he gets allot of extra random points in the space system to warp between.So instaid of having just a few lines going through the system, you could have a whole series of them, thus making it possible to get to most points in the system within that time frame.
Once again i'll stress that i'm problaly the only person who is mad enough to give this a go, due to the challenge involved.. its so much easier to go after miners instaid, you can pinpoint their positions in belts within 30 seconds of jumping into a system.. but it would be worth hearing people go 'WTF?!?' when they get warp scrambled at their totally randomly created spawn bookmark. 
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Russ1
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Posted - 2004.06.01 15:20:00 -
[35]
Destruct, I didnt say it was an exploit--I said it should be an exploit. I only post in hopes that a GM will read and maybe change their mind.
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Russ1
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Posted - 2004.06.01 15:33:00 -
[36]
Oh, and btw, name the GM. Least that way I can email them too to confirm this.
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Mikesnail
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Posted - 2004.06.01 16:05:00 -
[37]
sitting at a rat spawn is no lamer than sitting in a roid field ... infact, u have more chance of a target firing back at the rat spawn that u do at a roid belt .... the fact that most missions take you to a planet means that you are still in a point of space which ANYONE can access, therefore its up to you , the mission runner to be aware of your surroundings, and check local etc.
if u dont like the risks, dont take the missions. that simple.
its not an exploit, it shouldnt be an exploit, ALL of low sec space is dangerous. U can be fired on ANYWHERE in low sec space, why should rat/mission spawns be any different?
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Polux
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Posted - 2004.06.01 16:21:00 -
[38]
This shouldn't be a exploid but it's REALY ebil 
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vanBuskirk
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Posted - 2004.06.02 09:06:00 -
[39]
Is there any part of EVE that the griefers won't ruin?
Yes, it IS a lazy, cowardly, griefing tactic that ought to get you an instant ban. But it won't. Why? Because banning you for this exploit would expose the fact that it is only possible because of lazy programming.
Mission spawns ought to be at least 1 AU from anywhere at all in the system, and in a totally random direction. Problem solved - you'd have to be damn good with the scanner to manage that one, and if you are that good you probably deserve the kill.
Pull your finger out CCP!
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"Violence is the last resort of the incompetent".
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Lallante
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Posted - 2004.06.03 00:22:00 -
[40]
Quote:
You're forgetting one thing: the ganker would be an agent runner himself (obviously, otherwise he wouldn't know about the mission in question) which means he gets allot of extra random points in the space system to warp between.So instaid of having just a few lines going through the system, you could have a whole series of them, thus making it possible to get to most points in the system within that time frame.
Once again i'll stress that i'm problaly the only person who is mad enough to give this a go, due to the challenge involved.. its so much easier to go after miners instaid, you can pinpoint their positions in belts within 30 seconds of jumping into a system.. but it would be worth hearing people go 'WTF?!?' when they get warp scrambled at their totally randomly created spawn bookmark
Given the size of a single grid compared to a system, to track down a single grid (lets assume its 1000x1000x1000km) would require:
- A mathmatical program that could calculate exactly how far along a line you should stop for a bisector to another defined point (your 3rd triangulation point) to pass through the desired point (the NPCs)
Once you had that number, say you need to get to a point 12.320327372 aus along your original line. How you going to get there? dropping a bm in warp? lets say you did that, and clicked place bookmark when it read 12aus to target. The resulting bm could be anywhere between 12 and 2 aus from the target, as there is a variable time determined by lag before the BM is dropped.
In short, its impossible, without enourmous luck not once, but twice.
Finding safespots along a line is more doable, but still takes around 20mins, which is a lot more time than itll take the agent runner to complete his mission.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2004.06.03 01:39:00 -
[41]
Originally by: kyuuki
can i make a quick guess, was it ostingle?
what he said
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Dezzyb0y
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Posted - 2004.06.03 12:58:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Mikesnail
sitting at a rat spawn is no lamer than sitting in a roid field ... infact, u have more chance of a target firing back at the rat spawn that u do at a roid belt ....
And that makes you scared does it? targets to fire back n all
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K4rls 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Republic Fleet Testing Facilities, wrecking for 1395.9 damage
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RagnarH
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Posted - 2004.06.03 14:19:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Chrome Born
Post the name of the system this happened in am sure there are a lot more agent runners in the game than pirates atm
Chrome Born.
But I bet all my ISK on that we have the skills to kill em all 
This char is perm banned on forums :S |
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