Originally by: Relliassa

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Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14
So you're not totally immune to missiles, uncatchable and close to unkillable if you're a competant pilot.
Cry more.
And I thought the funniest bit was "its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half" - when it's actually Caldari who've been screwed over already by precisely those ships you're BAWWWing over.

How about doing what nano*** pilots have been telling everyone else to do: adapt and survive. Yeah those words sound a whole lot nastier when it's other people saying it to you eh?

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Originally by: Relliassa

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Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14

And I thought the funniest bit was "its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half" - when it's actually Caldari who've been screwed over already by precisely those ships you're BAWWWing over.

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Originally by: Relliassa

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Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14
So you're not totally immune to missiles, uncatchable and close to unkillable if you're a competant pilot.
Cry more.

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

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Be careful what you wish for. This is what happens when nanopilots adapt:

http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=141675

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Originally by: Relliassa

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Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14
How about doing what nano*** pilots have been telling everyone else to do: adapt and survive. Yeah those words sound a whole lot nastier when it's other people saying it to you eh?

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Edited by: Sivonya on 04/08/2008 02:25:25
1.Vagabond gains some extra speed bonus

2.Recons get web strenght as well as range

3.Commands and others lose some of their fat (mass)

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

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Originally by: Relliassa

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Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14
So you're not totally immune to missiles, uncatchable and close to unkillable if you're a competant pilot.
Cry more.
And I thought the funniest bit was "its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half" - when it's actually Caldari who've been screwed over already by precisely those ships you're BAWWWing over.

How about doing what nano*** pilots have been telling everyone else to do: adapt and survive. Yeah those words sound a whole lot nastier when it's other people saying it to you eh?

---

Be careful what you wish for. This is what happens when nanopilots adapt:

http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=141675

---

Originally by: Sivonya

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Vagabonds are in great peril

I did test vagabond with various fitting on singularity and didnt like what i saw.

Regular vaga fit with 2 overdive, nanofiber and 2 gyro does not make vagabond go even 3km/s (orbit aroun 2.4km/s)

Full nano low slot (without gyrostabilizers), with speed hardwirings and polycarbons goes 3.6km/s (orbit around 2.9km/s)

Even when full nano fit (no gyrostabilizers - it has no dps to kill a npc in belt) in orbit of 2.9km/s it gets hammered by missiles

Now Vagabond
cant even tackle anything longer than 30 secs,
cant avoid missiles,
cant reach the falcon jamming at 200km away in reasonable time
cant runaway when situation gets hot

so how can vaga be king of guerilla warfare when any ceptors can kill it easily (or asault or electronic frigs)
minmatars got their main advantage nerfed, its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half or galente dronebays reduced to by 50%

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Edited by: Sivonya on 04/08/2008 05:23:14
Say you have a astarte jump in through gate, you double web him with huggin and you and 5 others in t2 crusers start attacking him... he will nonetheless tank that long and go back to gate/jump out just a slow glide but sufficient

say you are in vagabond and come across drake or raven in belt, you tackle it and call on your gang to come and help who are 50 au away. Buy the time they reach you are either dead or had to let go the target because caldari missiles ripped you apart( so i dont see how vaga is overgrown ceptor when it goes 2x times less km/s)

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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those look like great speeds for a cruiser sized hull ... I mean a bit more and you are faster than frigates ...

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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those look like great speeds for a cruiser sized hull ... I mean a bit more and you are faster than frigates ...

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thats as fast as you can get with all bonuses except snakes, total reduction on dps which is not wanted, so Most likely we have to fit 2 gyros and thus make vaga utterly slow

Yes other nanoes get nerfed as well but most you can easily armor tank them except vaga

And Vaga is not invulnerable when orbiting a npcing raven, its always target to overheating webs bumping rocks and neutralizers as well as limited cap. So if you catch a raven in belt you can hold him some odd 2 minuted and have to run after. But with the patch you cant hold it not even 30 sec

Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most

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Originally by: Zhilan Alaioki

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Edited by: Zhilan Alaioki on 04/08/2008 12:06:04
Jesus ****ing christ. I hate this Vagabonds are uncatchable bullshit. In lowsec it might be true but in 0.0 it simply isnt. There are many ways to catch a Vaga, especially the 2 shield extender and no anti nano module fitting. ONE fast interceptor with a web is enough in that case! Just because you run around in lowsec and suck at catching ships don¦t spout bullshit about uncatchable Vagas. Yes, those faction fitted snaked up Vagas are absurd, but very few people fly those and the problem is not the Vaga its the absurd mods like snakes.

This patch will kill them and every Vaga pilot and even non Vaga pilot I know agrees.
The problem is not that theyre not faster than other ships, they still are. Its just that to run from a gatecamp or out of a combat situation a difference in speed of 500m/s is not enough, sorry. Difference to most HACs was 2k/s before and thats a BIG difference.

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Originally by: rValdez5987

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

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Originally by: Relliassa

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Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14
So you're not totally immune to missiles, uncatchable and close to unkillable if you're a competant pilot.
Cry more.
And I thought the funniest bit was "its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half" - when it's actually Caldari who've been screwed over already by precisely those ships you're BAWWWing over.

How about doing what nano*** pilots have been telling everyone else to do: adapt and survive. Yeah those words sound a whole lot nastier when it's other people saying it to you eh?

---

Be careful what you wish for. This is what happens when nanopilots adapt:

http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=141675

---

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH HYDRA HAHHAHAHAH MAJESTA HAHAHAHHAHA.

go tri go! Kill them all.

More fights, less nano ***gotry is always a good thing.

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most

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Originally by: Hugh Ruka

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Vagabonds are in great peril

I did test vagabond with various fitting on singularity and didnt like what i saw.

Regular vaga fit with 2 overdive, nanofiber and 2 gyro does not make vagabond go even 3km/s (orbit aroun 2.4km/s)

Full nano low slot (without gyrostabilizers), with speed hardwirings and polycarbons goes 3.6km/s (orbit around 2.9km/s)

Even when full nano fit (no gyrostabilizers - it has no dps to kill a npc in belt) in orbit of 2.9km/s it gets hammered by missiles

Now Vagabond
cant even tackle anything longer than 30 secs,
cant avoid missiles,
cant reach the falcon jamming at 200km away in reasonable time
cant runaway when situation gets hot

so how can vaga be king of guerilla warfare when any ceptors can kill it easily (or asault or electronic frigs)
minmatars got their main advantage nerfed, its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half or galente dronebays reduced to by 50%

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those look like great speeds for a cruiser sized hull ... I mean a bit more and you are faster than frigates ...

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Originally by: AshtarDJ

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most

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Good example with the caldari ECM ships, but not quite the thruth... and I'll tell you why:

This patch is taking about 33% of the strentgh of the webbers on all ships, but at the same time it is taking arround 50% off all faster (MWD + nano) ships in this game. Many other ships gained mass and lost agility, makes them slower to reach top speed, thus webbers even more effective. Pretty much all ships after the patch will be slower, so a rapier/huginn with 2x webbers will still be very effective.

If I'm to translate the web changes to your ECM comparison, it would be like CCP making all ECM 33% weaker, but taking 50% off the sensor strength of most ships in game.

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Originally by: AshtarDJ

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most

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Good example with the caldari ECM ships, but not quite the thruth... and I'll tell you why:

This patch is taking about 33% of the strentgh of the webbers on all ships, but at the same time it is taking arround 50% off all faster (MWD + nano) ships in this game. Many other ships gained mass and lost agility, makes them slower to reach top speed, thus webbers even more effective. Pretty much all ships after the patch will be slower, so a rapier/huginn with 2x webbers will still be very effective.

If I'm to translate the web changes to your ECM comparison, it would be like CCP making all ECM 33% weaker, but taking 50% off the sensor strength of most ships in game.

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Originally by: AshtarDJ

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most

---

Good example with the caldari ECM ships, but not quite the thruth... and I'll tell you why:

This patch is taking about 33% of the strentgh of the webbers on all ships, but at the same time it is taking arround 50% off all faster (MWD + nano) ships in this game. Many other ships gained mass and lost agility, makes them slower to reach top speed, thus webbers even more effective. Pretty much all ships after the patch will be slower, so a rapier/huginn with 2x webbers will still be very effective.

If I'm to translate the web changes to your ECM comparison, it would be like CCP making all ECM 33% weaker, but taking 50% off the sensor strength of most ships in game.

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ok lets put those numbers on paper
BEFORE: ship that goes 6km/s with 2 t2 webs gets reduction to 60m/s
AFTER: ship that goes 6km/s with 2 t2 goes 960m/s, oh wait it got nerfed so instead of 6km/s in start it goes 3km/s but still 3km/s with t2 x2 webs goes 480m/s

Before: 60m/s
After: 480m/s
so thats 8x more speed when webbed... almost as if it is not webbed lol

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Originally by: AshtarDJ

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most

---

Good example with the caldari ECM ships, but not quite the thruth... and I'll tell you why:

This patch is taking about 33% of the strentgh of the webbers on all ships, but at the same time it is taking arround 50% off all faster (MWD + nano) ships in this game. Many other ships gained mass and lost agility, makes them slower to reach top speed, thus webbers even more effective. Pretty much all ships after the patch will be slower, so a rapier/huginn with 2x webbers will still be very effective.

If I'm to translate the web changes to your ECM comparison, it would be like CCP making all ECM 33% weaker, but taking 50% off the sensor strength of most ships in game.

---

ok lets put those numbers on paper
BEFORE: ship that goes 6km/s with 2 t2 webs gets reduction to 60m/s
AFTER: ship that goes 6km/s with 2 t2 goes 960m/s, oh wait it got nerfed so instead of 6km/s in start it goes 3km/s but still 3km/s with t2 x2 webs goes 480m/s

Before: 60m/s
After: 480m/s
so thats 8x more speed when webbed... almost as if it is not webbed lol

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Originally by: Relliassa

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Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14
So you're not totally immune to missiles

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Originally by: Sivonya

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say you are in vagabond and come across drake or raven in belt, you tackle it and call on your gang to come and help who are 50 au away. Buy the time they reach you are either dead or had to let go the target because caldari missiles ripped you apart( so i dont see how vaga is overgrown ceptor when it goes 2x times less km/s)

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Originally by: Nian Banks

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[so as to be fast and to allow us to disengage, because 9/10 times we need to run away, So WE STAY OUT OF WEB RANGE! Your comparison of a vaga unwebbed and a vaga webbed is a pointless statement made by a trolling looser who knows jack crap about how to pilot minmatar ships so get out.[/url]

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

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Be careful what you wish for. This is what happens when nanopilots adapt:

http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=141675

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But Triumvirate guys know their stuff and don't whine on the forums so much?

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Originally by: Xyleya

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Vagabond: 477 DPS @ 2700m / 272 DPS @ 28700m
Deimos: 658 DPS @ 5600m / 408 DPS @ 17600m
Zealot: 456 DPS @ 38000m / 228 DPS @ 43000m

Vagabond has allmost double the Zealots HP and does good DPS up to 28700m. Deimos has a comparable tank, but outdamages the Vagabond having much more less range. Zealot has biggest range, but weakest tank and lowest DPS.

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

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Originally by: Relliassa

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Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14
So you're not totally immune to missiles, uncatchable and close to unkillable if you're a competant pilot.
Cry more.
And I thought the funniest bit was "its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half" - when it's actually Caldari who've been screwed over already by precisely those ships you're BAWWWing over.

How about doing what nano*** pilots have been telling everyone else to do: adapt and survive. Yeah those words sound a whole lot nastier when it's other people saying it to you eh?

---

Be careful what you wish for. This is what happens when nanopilots adapt:

http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=141675

---

Quote:

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Maeltstome:
man
Maeltstome:
im gonna lol when all these anti-nano smug gits get hit with real gangs
Maeltstome:
you seen *popular alliance assumed to be nano wh@res* in BS's?
Maeltstome:
****ing scary
Maeltstome:
drop the hundreds of millions for snakes and fit some faction reppers, you're gonna get hit with some devastating command ship gangs, tanking everything
Peter | beware the deceiver, for he shall lead you into hidden holes says:
then they will get nerfed
0m3g4 W34p0n:
its always the same dude
0m3g4 W34p0n:
something is good, then it gets an unnessacary amount of whine, it gets nerfed, no one uses it, they pick the next item, rinse, repeat
0m3g4 W34p0n:
ffs, they're back to bashing passive sheild tanks again
0m3g4 W34p0n:
is it me or is this 2007 all over again?

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Originally by: Wizzkidy

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Vaga should NOT be able to out run missiles/torps etc.. as you saw in the dev blog, ship "out running" missiles are bugging the game out.

Tough :p

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Originally by: Wizzkidy

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Vaga should NOT be able to out run missiles/torps etc.. as you saw in the dev blog, ship "out running" missiles are bugging the game out.

Tough :p

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Originally by: fivedollar*****

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honestly i've been skilling minmatars for almost 2 years

now i question myself should i continue playing when someone anuls my effort so much

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Originally by: Nian Banks

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[so as to be fast and to allow us to disengage, because 9/10 times we need to run away, So WE STAY OUT OF WEB RANGE! Your comparison of a vaga unwebbed and a vaga webbed is a pointless statement made by a trolling looser who knows jack crap about how to pilot minmatar ships so get out.[/url]

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put your glasses on next time before you try replying
i was not talking about vaga but about web and how nerf affects minmatar recons

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Originally by: Wizzkidy

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Vaga should NOT be able to out run missiles/torps etc.. as you saw in the dev blog, ship "out running" missiles are bugging the game out.

Tough :p

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Originally by: Stab Wounds

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

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Be careful what you wish for. This is what happens when nanopilots adapt:

http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=141675

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But Triumvirate guys know their stuff and don't whine on the forums so much?

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the thing is they really don't know their stuff and all they do is whine on the forums. they will fail when nanos are nerfed and i await the nanotears.

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Originally by: 128th ABC123

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Interesting... I just love getting blobbed by 22 vagas in 0.0 (never seen ANY ship type being used that much.. so that alone says something)

In all honesty the overall versatility of the ship and the high chance of escape from most situations with that ship (if you are not a complete moron...) are not balanced. Missiles vs speed is just sucky though. Amongst my accounts I fly a range from nano-ships, falcon, capship, etc and I think I can make a fair assesment of the different qualities. My personal opinion (even though it would impact me too!!!) is that the vaga needs to be nerfed.

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Originally by: 128th ABC123

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Interesting... I just love getting blobbed by 22 vagas in 0.0 (never seen ANY ship type being used that much.. so that alone says something)

In all honesty the overall versatility of the ship and the high chance of escape from most situations with that ship (if you are not a complete moron...) are not balanced. Missiles vs speed is just sucky though. Amongst my accounts I fly a range from nano-ships, falcon, capship, etc and I think I can make a fair assesment of the different qualities. My personal opinion (even though it would impact me too!!!) is that the vaga needs to be nerfed.

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Yes vaga needs a nerf... if other nanoes get nerfed, but this is too much, 22 of anything is terible, just vagabond is for guerilla warefare and thats what it should remain doing, wit hthe current situation it looses its purpose totally.
p.s.you dont say when you see half a fleet in megathrons oh its terible all use megathrons

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Originally by: Ferocious FeAr

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I don't understand why people are complaining about the vagabond. It can still go 3km a sec, sure it gets tracked and hit by missiles more but deal with it and move on. Alter your seutp/tactics to avoid getting into bad situations. Stop making CCP think for you. You have a brain, use it.

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

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Originally by: Relliassa

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Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14
So you're not totally immune to missiles, uncatchable and close to unkillable if you're a competant pilot.
Cry more.
And I thought the funniest bit was "its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half" - when it's actually Caldari who've been screwed over already by precisely those ships you're BAWWWing over.

How about doing what nano*** pilots have been telling everyone else to do: adapt and survive. Yeah those words sound a whole lot nastier when it's other people saying it to you eh?

---

Be careful what you wish for. This is what happens when nanopilots adapt:

http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=141675

---

Originally by: Nightsheir

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*ENEMY*
- I will first tackle you .
- Then i will see if i can kill you .
- If not , i will just be off to try another target.

*GATE*
- I will just take a look.
- If its not a rapier camp , ill tackle the (see enemy part)
- If there is camp , i will just go back to gate .

Before the speed age, there wasnt many vagabonds around. Only a different taste of play. Once the atari masters learned about what speed had to offer , vagabonds multiplied like insects. Many of my friends totaly giving up on their accounts and creating new matari ones just for the vagabond.

Speed was not all about avoiding damage. It was also about closing the distance or increasing it. Going back to gate when necessary or burning off to far away with a ship capable of killing interceptors and just warping off.

The much loved Vagabond became the easy carebear mode for many.
The "Escape artist with guns"...

Ironicaly, the whining is going much around Vagabond still , but the Nerf meteor hit Eve and all of the ships, not just the "Escape Artist with Guns".

-Other nano pilots will just go back to their normal ships now and continue enjoying eve.
-But since 80% of the vagabond pilots were totaly focused the "top page" bonuses vagabond was offering , they dont have any other way to play eve anymore . This panic rightfuly causes them to scream around and ask ccp to give their golden seats back.

Welcome back to eve , vagabond will now become just a different taste once again , not a spearhead for the minmatar race.

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Originally by: Becq Starforged

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I'm going to take a middle ground on this. I feel that nano ships are over-the-top as they currently exist, so I like the changes in principle. However, I'm leaning toward the opinion that the changes go to far.

Snake changes -- good. Introducing these in the first place was one of the two reasons nano-ships became as unballanced as they are. Cutting their effect is reasonable, though I do understand the consternation of those who spent billions on those implants. Then again, many have lost investments due to the effects of rebalancing.

Polycarb changes -- good. These were the other major factor in unbalancing nano-ships. All other rigs are less effective than their equivalent module, so should polycarbs.

Increased ship mass -- bad. It sounds as though they've not only significantly increased ship mass on a number of ships, but have also changed the modules that reduce mass so that they no longer do so. I'm not in favor of this. Clearly the polycarbs reduced mass too much, but this goes too far in the other direction.

Overdrive effectiveness reduced -- bad. I favor leaving overdrives as is, though see below.

Gang bonuses -- good. I think the amount this was reduced is reasonable.

Webifiers -- good/bad. 90% webifiers were too strong. 60% webifiers are too weak, and this hits Matari recons too hard. I think a balance might be reached by giving the Matari recons a web strength bonus (5-10% per level) and by adding a web strength skill (5% per level). These strength bonuses would apply to the margin, not to the penalty amount, like hardeners do. So, for example, a normal ship flown by a web-trained pilot would get a web strength of about 70%, and a fully trained Rapier pilot would get that number up to 77.5-85%.

Overheating -- oh, yes, I should have added this in as the third major source of the problem. I don't see any changes made to overheating by this patch, which strikes me as odd. Frankly, if I had my way, I'd remove overheating and refund the SPs spent training this skill plus the last level of the prereq. Failing that, the gain from overheating should be reduced significantly.

MWD/scram interaction -- neutral. I'm not sure whether I like this or not yet. It might be an interesting dynamic.

Afterburners -- bad. If anything, I think afterburners should be boosted (by a modest amount).

AFs -- good. Though I hope that this is not the whole of the vaunted AF fix; a bit of extra speed isn't enough.

One final thought: in general, instead of reducing the bonuses from individual sources as much, I think that incorporating stacking nerfs should accomplish a good deal of what needs to be done. It's just a matter of making the various modules stack together in a way that doesn't prevent their usefulness single while reducing the effect of fitting many of them.

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Originally by: Taya Tal

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Armor tank your vagabond.

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Originally by: Taya Tal

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Armor tank your vagabond.

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Originally by: Number 17

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Every day i come in here to read nano.whinning, it makes me feel like christmas.

Before this patch everyone who would say "im training for the cerberus" would be answered: "drop it mate, fly a drake". Similar situations could be heard about other races hacs, a super specialized ship, that is not cost effective and does not deliver better than a BC which is 1/3 of its price.
Except for one ship.
There are 2 hacs that where actually good. Great for solo because you did not need scouts as you could mwd away from small gatecamp (popping away ceptors that chase you in straight line in 2 volleys), or run back to gate in big gatecamp.
Comparing it to other hacs where being bubbled means 98% death, as it should be.
God mode? not quite, but really close to it. We fought TRI a lot the past year, and we managed to snag a lot of nano hac kills, but it was thru hard work and specific counter measures. And it involved a lot of battleships and RR, and ecm and whatnot ALL of that to fight.... cruisers...


Vaga with post nerf speed can still go over 3km/second. that can outrun precision heavy missiles. Interceptors will be slower as well, and if a vaga can track my crow now, it will shred it apart post nerf.

Get it into your heads, you cannot speed tank while in orbit, you should not be able to, ever. if you want to speed tank go in a straight line to get top speed.

the bright side is, that the vaga is still fast enough to disengage, mwd to 100km and smack in local. So you basically have not been nerfed at all!!!!

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Originally by: Number 17

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Comparing it to other hacs where being bubbled means 98% death, as it should be.

Vaga with post nerf speed can still go over 3km/second. that can outrun precision heavy missiles. Interceptors will be slower as well, and if a vaga can track my crow now, it will shred it apart post nerf.

if you want to speed tank go in a straight line to get top speed.

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Originally by: Ihrda Siharkhail

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I dont think you get it, the vaga has shit base resists on armour, hence we are stuck with putting 2 large extenders on it, so if you cant speed tank, how are you suppose to tank with 2 extenders?

also, you and most caldari players suck in pvp, get used to it, youll still die in numbers after the nerf.

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Originally by: Sivonya

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so how can vaga be king of guerilla warfare when any ceptors can kill it easily (or asault or electronic frigs)

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Originally by: Number 17

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Originally by: Ihrda Siharkhail

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I dont think you get it, the vaga has shit base resists on armour, hence we are stuck with putting 2 large extenders on it, so if you cant speed tank, how are you suppose to tank with 2 extenders?

also, you and most caldari players suck in pvp, get used to it, youll still die in numbers after the nerf.

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1- You are not supposed to tank, even so the vaga is still a very good hac pre nerf and post nerf.
2- Sure, i suck big time, caldari also sucks big time that is why a caldari alliance like mine got between the top 5 in last tourney, but it seems everyone else sucks harder because i/we have a very good kill/loss ratio and an efficiency over 80%. You can check it out yourself in any KB of your preference. And if you all think caldari sucks and we still die in numbers after nerf, why is you whining all the time?
3- LOL at your nano tears, lol at your anger, lol at your failure to understand this game, it makes me feel like christmas.

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Originally by: Gordon Red

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Do you really think that everyone will carry a 7,5/9km around?

Ceptor vs Vaga is a quickly dead ceptor, the interceptors are dead meat anyway with this change.

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Originally by: Relliassa

---

Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14
So you're not totally immune to missiles, uncatchable and close to unkillable if you're a competant pilot.
Cry more.
And I thought the funniest bit was "its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half" - when it's actually Caldari who've been screwed over already by precisely those ships you're BAWWWing over.

How about doing what nano*** pilots have been telling everyone else to do: adapt and survive. Yeah those words sound a whole lot nastier when it's other people saying it to you eh?

---

Originally by: Stab Wounds

---

Originally by: Cpt Branko

---

Originally by: Malachon Draco

---

Be careful what you wish for. This is what happens when nanopilots adapt:

http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=141675

---

But Triumvirate guys know their stuff and don't whine on the forums so much?

---

the thing is they really don't know their stuff and all they do is whine on the forums. they will fail when nanos are nerfed and i await the nanotears.

---

Originally by: Osher

---

Save the VAGA pfft...

When every war your corp fights involves you having to design your entire navy around countering one ship something is wrong...

When you do so and your enemy continues to spam Vagas knowing that even the best Vaga specific countermeasures mean they'll usually escape unscathed, something is wrong...

You know speed is overpowered.

CCP knows speed is overpowered.

This patch is a good change that will add diversity to pvp instead of what it is now; speed freaks and specific countermeasures. See that bold word, I know its a big one, look it up.

I cannot believe you all continue to dillute yourselves. Take some of your own "adapt or die" medicine for god sake.

I cannot believe I just bumped this thread! Arg! Well played OP...well played

---

Originally by: Sivonya

---

Vagabonds are in great peril

I did test vagabond with various fitting on singularity and didnt like what i saw.

Regular vaga fit with 2 overdive, nanofiber and 2 gyro does not make vagabond go even 3km/s (orbit aroun 2.4km/s)

Full nano low slot (without gyrostabilizers), with speed hardwirings and polycarbons goes 3.6km/s (orbit around 2.9km/s)

Even when full nano fit (no gyrostabilizers - it has no dps to kill a npc in belt) in orbit of 2.9km/s it gets hammered by missiles

Now Vagabond
cant even tackle anything longer than 30 secs,
cant avoid missiles,
cant reach the falcon jamming at 200km away in reasonable time
cant runaway when situation gets hot

so how can vaga be king of guerilla warfare when any ceptors can kill it easily (or asault or electronic frigs)
minmatars got their main advantage nerfed, its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half or galente dronebays reduced to by 50%

---

Originally by: Ihrda Siharkhail

---

I dont think you get it, the vaga has shit base resists on armour, hence we are stuck with putting 2 large extenders on it, so if you cant speed tank, how are you suppose to tank with 2 extenders?

---

Originally by: Euriti

---

Yes, diversity.

We will now go from

Sniper Fleets

RR Gangs

HAC sniper gangs

Nano gangs

to

Sniper Fleets

RR Gangs

HAC sniper gangs

Look, we increased diversi... actually we didn't.

---

Originally by: Orange Faeces

---

Originally by: Euriti

---

Yes, diversity.

We will now go from

Sniper Fleets

RR Gangs

HAC sniper gangs

Nano gangs

to

Sniper Fleets

RR Gangs

HAC sniper gangs

Look, we increased diversi... actually we didn't.

---

Also hillarious.

I'd really like to see Pandemic in one of these new gangs. Really I would. When is the last time you saw PL roll anyone in a "sniper gang". Or even funnier ... "RR gang". Can you see a PL pilot helping another PL pilot? Only people over the age of, say, 16 do that. Too funny, PL.

---

Originally by: Euriti

---

https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_battle.php?start_time=2008-08-03%2021:17:00&end_time=2008-08-03%2022:43:00&system=YVBE-E 59 kills 33 losses

https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_battle.php?start_time=2008-08-02%2017:53:00&end_time=2008-08-02%2018:27:00&system=PNQY-Y 15 kills 4 losses

https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_battle.php?start_time=2008-08-02%2020:43:00&end_time=2008-08-02%2021:19:00&system=YVBE-E 46 kills 3 losses

Don't come tell me these are nano BS.

Also don't come tell me that it's not correct "because we dont post losses". Afaik the board is API updated.

---

Originally by: Orange Faeces

---

Originally by: Euriti

---

https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_battle.php?start_time=2008-08-03%2021:17:00&end_time=2008-08-03%2022:43:00&system=YVBE-E 59 kills 33 losses

https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_battle.php?start_time=2008-08-02%2017:53:00&end_time=2008-08-02%2018:27:00&system=PNQY-Y 15 kills 4 losses

https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_battle.php?start_time=2008-08-02%2020:43:00&end_time=2008-08-02%2021:19:00&system=YVBE-E 46 kills 3 losses

Don't come tell me these are nano BS.

Also don't come tell me that it's not correct "because we dont post losses". Afaik the board is API updated.

---

Okay... Thanks for the links. Fine, but...

A. These are sniper slug-fests, not small-gang action. Thus, they don't add much to the comment that, for small-gang and freeform pvp, you guys are all nano.

B. Most of the BS losses for PL do not indicate the use of remote repair. Some of them in the last link do. Kuddos.

Anyway, the data on the DPS, falloff and agility is clear -- the vaga could do with some balancing, and I agree with some but not all of the nano-nerf changes. But you already knew that...

OF

---

Originally by: Orange Faeces

---

Originally by: Ihrda Siharkhail

---

I dont think you get it, the vaga has shit base resists on armour, hence we are stuck with putting 2 large extenders on it, so if you cant speed tank, how are you suppose to tank with 2 extenders?

---

Superlolz. With 2x LSE II, and base resists the Vagabond has a better buffer than almost any other HAC, except maybe 2xLSE II on an ishtar + plate. That mid slot choice costs you no speed. Idea: Put a kinetic shield rig in also costing you no speed (Ryysa was a smart guy), use your lows for speed and damage, and you are the big winner!!

How about a thread called "SAVE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T FLY THE VAGA"

I don't think YOU get it.

---

Originally by: Orange Faeces

---

Originally by: Ihrda Siharkhail

---

I dont think you get it, the vaga has shit base resists on armour, hence we are stuck with putting 2 large extenders on it, so if you cant speed tank, how are you suppose to tank with 2 extenders?

---

Superlolz. With 2x LSE II, and base resists the Vagabond has a better buffer than almost any other HAC, except maybe 2xLSE II on an ishtar + plate. That mid slot choice costs you no speed. Idea: Put a kinetic shield rig in also costing you no speed (Ryysa was a smart guy), use your lows for speed and damage, and you are the big winner!!

How about a thread called "SAVE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T FLY THE VAGA"

I don't think YOU get it.

---

Originally by: Ihrda Siharkhail

---

Originally by: Orange Faeces

---

Originally by: Ihrda Siharkhail

---

I dont think you get it, the vaga has shit base resists on armour, hence we are stuck with putting 2 large extenders on it, so if you cant speed tank, how are you suppose to tank with 2 extenders?

---

Superlolz. With 2x LSE II, and base resists the Vagabond has a better buffer than almost any other HAC, except maybe 2xLSE II on an ishtar + plate. That mid slot choice costs you no speed. Idea: Put a kinetic shield rig in also costing you no speed (Ryysa was a smart guy), use your lows for speed and damage, and you are the big winner!!

How about a thread called "SAVE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T FLY THE VAGA"

I don't think YOU get it.

---

your an idiot, l2p

---

Originally by: Trojanman190

---

Originally by: Ihrda Siharkhail

---

Originally by: Orange Faeces

---

Originally by: Ihrda Siharkhail

---

I dont think you get it, the vaga has shit base resists on armour, hence we are stuck with putting 2 large extenders on it, so if you cant speed tank, how are you suppose to tank with 2 extenders?

---

Superlolz. With 2x LSE II, and base resists the Vagabond has a better buffer than almost any other HAC, except maybe 2xLSE II on an ishtar + plate. That mid slot choice costs you no speed. Idea: Put a kinetic shield rig in also costing you no speed (Ryysa was a smart guy), use your lows for speed and damage, and you are the big winner!!

How about a thread called "SAVE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T FLY THE VAGA"

I don't think YOU get it.

---

your an idiot, l2p

---

QFT

---

Originally by: Titan Pilot

---

Actually, you don't get it.

Scenario: You are in your trusty Vaga, doing 3.2k, staying around 18-21k range, shooting victim in your falloff. As soon as you turn off your guns so they can actually track, you have 10 SECONDS before your can MWD. Now, unless your shooting a Drake or Raven, which I seriously doubt you are, cause you can't speed tank anymore, your prolly shooting a Sac or Ishtar or maybe Thorax or Brutix. With that in mind, as soon as the other pilot sees you turn off your MWD, guess what he will do?

BINGO! He hits MWD, approach, WEB, Scram (Neut if he is Ishtar) and your 2x LSE II buffer is going BYE BYE real fast while you madly hit warp, MWD and try to get the frack out of dodge. Remember, the other pilot only needs to get within 9k of you to turn off your MWD. Approximately 10K distance to cover in 10 seconds. And Vagas dont fit WEBS so once he has you within 9K, your a wreck waiting to be salvaged...

The scenario has been played out a million times on test server, Vaga in its current bonus form is now at a real disadvantage. Now perhaps its time the Vaga dies for a while, but at least post something intelligent so everyone can really understand why its at a disadvantage. The CCP Dev has the Vaga wrong and until they wake up, its pretty much dead unless you fly it with some crazy setup that does not take advantage of its bonuses....as some on test server have bragged about but I have yet to really see happen.

---

Originally by: Suboran

---

vagabonds arent immune to missiles, or good tracking turrets.

problem wth the vagabond is, it needs to be fast to survive, it has no tank or tanking ability and comparibly low damage to other hac types.

---

Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn

---

Originally by: Suboran

---

vagabonds arent immune to missiles, or good tracking turrets.

problem wth the vagabond is, it needs to be fast to survive, it has no tank or tanking ability and comparibly low damage to other hac types.

---

Nonsense. Vagabond can have MUCH better shield tank than caldari HACs while still pulling out better dps at least on optimal range, getting there should not be problem because of having much better speed. Funny though.

---

Originally by: fivedollar*****

---

also we need to help the people using sensor boosters and webs on med slots

---

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab

---

Originally by: fivedollar*****

---

also we need to help the people using sensor boosters and webs on med slots

---

Yes please, help us Caldari!

And the Astarte ends up 'useless'... Well, do you know what the Nighthawk is?

A tank. Nothing more, nothing less. So if you want to give your opponents a though target for target-practice, that's the ship to bring.

---

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab

---

Originally by: fivedollar*****

---

also we need to help the people using sensor boosters and webs on med slots

---

Yes please, help us Caldari!

And the Astarte ends up 'useless'... Well, do you know what the Nighthawk is?

A tank. Nothing more, nothing less. So if you want to give your opponents a though target for target-practice, that's the ship to bring.

---

Originally by: Euriti

---

You seem to be forgetting that the vagabond was MADE for speedtanking, made for what it does on TQ and now you compare it to the caldari HACs that are made for SNIPING (look at the bonuses ) While the vagabond obviously is meant for speedtanking out of web range (Speed bonus, falloff bonus).

Seriously, stop being a douche and see the light.

---

Originally by: Bellum Eternus

---

I fly the Rapier/Huginn/Vaga (and nano Ishtar, nano Zealot, Nano Sac etc.) and I'm not really finding the Min cruisers nerfed.

The Minnies cry foul like *THEIR* ships were nerfed and no one elses were touched. Totally not the case. All the ships are slower, and the Minmatar ships, while slower, have an even wider gap between them and the slower ships. Percentage wise, they're faster than ever when compared to other ships of like class.

And the Rapiers? Everyone's web is nerfed. Not just the Rapiers. I'll say it again: in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

---

Originally by: Jim Hazard

---

Originally by: Bellum Eternus

---

I fly the Rapier/Huginn/Vaga (and nano Ishtar, nano Zealot, Nano Sac etc.) and I'm not really finding the Min cruisers nerfed.

The Minnies cry foul like *THEIR* ships were nerfed and no one elses were touched. Totally not the case. All the ships are slower, and the Minmatar ships, while slower, have an even wider gap between them and the slower ships. Percentage wise, they're faster than ever when compared to other ships of like class.

And the Rapiers? Everyone's web is nerfed. Not just the Rapiers. I'll say it again: in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

---

That is exactly the point. All the ppl whining about minmatar being disadvantaged now are just ppl who do not look at the whole picture and just cry because they might actually risk something while PvPing.

---

Originally by: Kagura Nikon

---

Originally by: Jim Hazard

---

Originally by: Bellum Eternus

---

I fly the Rapier/Huginn/Vaga (and nano Ishtar, nano Zealot, Nano Sac etc.) and I'm not really finding the Min cruisers nerfed.

The Minnies cry foul like *THEIR* ships were nerfed and no one elses were touched. Totally not the case. All the ships are slower, and the Minmatar ships, while slower, have an even wider gap between them and the slower ships. Percentage wise, they're faster than ever when compared to other ships of like class.

And the Rapiers? Everyone's web is nerfed. Not just the Rapiers. I'll say it again: in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

---

That is exactly the point. All the ppl whining about minmatar being disadvantaged now are just ppl who do not look at the whole picture and just cry because they might actually risk something while PvPing.

---

Single sentence for you:

Raven more agile than tempest.....

---

Originally by: Jim Hazard

---

Edited by: Jim Hazard on 11/08/2008 16:46:02

Originally by: Kagura Nikon

---

Originally by: Jim Hazard

---

Originally by: Bellum Eternus

---

I fly the Rapier/Huginn/Vaga (and nano Ishtar, nano Zealot, Nano Sac etc.) and I'm not really finding the Min cruisers nerfed.

The Minnies cry foul like *THEIR* ships were nerfed and no one elses were touched. Totally not the case. All the ships are slower, and the Minmatar ships, while slower, have an even wider gap between them and the slower ships. Percentage wise, they're faster than ever when compared to other ships of like class.

And the Rapiers? Everyone's web is nerfed. Not just the Rapiers. I'll say it again: in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

---

That is exactly the point. All the ppl whining about minmatar being disadvantaged now are just ppl who do not look at the whole picture and just cry because they might actually risk something while PvPing.

---

Single sentence for you:

Raven more agile than tempest.....

---

Raven sitting at 200km needs like 20-25 seconds till the 1st missile hits. By that time the target in most cases is either dead or warped away. So Boost ravens with cruise missiles they are definetly disadvantaged!

And since almost all ships will be slower after the patch it does not matter if you need a little bit longer to warp out as you have more time to do so...

---

Originally by: Orange Faeces

---

Originally by: Euriti

---

You seem to be forgetting that the vagabond was MADE for speedtanking, made for what it does on TQ and now you compare it to the caldari HACs that are made for SNIPING (look at the bonuses ) While the vagabond obviously is meant for speedtanking out of web range (Speed bonus, falloff bonus).

Seriously, stop being a douche and see the light.

---

Okay.

And what is the deimos designed for? It has a falloff bonus, damage bonus and a cap bonus for MWD. This adds up to ... what exactly?

I know your answer. You'd say its a flying coffin. But of course, you'd never fly one, right?

Lets see if we can figure this out. MWD bonus so that we can sustain our MWD and guns... and a tank? no. not enough cap rech. for that. Falloff bonus... hmm... so I'm supposed to MWD around pwning stuff with Null... does that work? no. it doesn't. Please help.

Thank you.

OF

---

Originally by: Jim Hazard

---

Originally by: Bellum Eternus

---

---

---

Originally by: Kagura Nikon

---

You don't get it you you fakign to be stupid? Minmatar are supposed to be the most agile. And caldari are supposed to be the less agile. Now its inverted. Minmatar has lowest dps lowest tank and now lowest maneuverability? Sine when in hell that is balance?

---

Originally by: Jim Hazard

---

Originally by: Bellum Eternus

---

I fly the Rapier/Huginn/Vaga (and nano Ishtar, nano Zealot, Nano Sac etc.) and I'm not really finding the Min cruisers nerfed.

The Minnies cry foul like *THEIR* ships were nerfed and no one elses were touched. Totally not the case. All the ships are slower, and the Minmatar ships, while slower, have an even wider gap between them and the slower ships. Percentage wise, they're faster than ever when compared to other ships of like class.

And the Rapiers? Everyone's web is nerfed. Not just the Rapiers. I'll say it again: in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

---

That is exactly the point. All the ppl whining about minmatar being disadvantaged now are just ppl who do not look at the whole picture and just cry because they might actually risk something while PvPing.

---

Originally by: Stab Wounds

---

Edited by: Stab Wounds on 11/08/2008 21:58:02
vega needs a nerf and probably even more than what is on sisi. why would anyon choose a cerbis and eagel over a vegabond ever?

---

Originally by: Stab Wounds

---

Edited by: Stab Wounds on 11/08/2008 21:58:02
vega needs a nerf and probably even more than what is on sisi. why would anyon choose a cerbis and eagel over a vegabond ever?

---

Originally by: carleyjones

---

Originally by: Stab Wounds

---

Edited by: Stab Wounds on 11/08/2008 21:58:02
vega needs a nerf and probably even more than what is on sisi. why would anyon choose a cerbis and eagel over a vegabond ever?

---

Sniping is just one example that springs to mind. They are 3 different ships with different roles and advantages.

If you nerf the vaga anymore than what is already on sisi you're left with a sh**y version of the stabber. Perhaps if you could actually, for once, provide a valid reason with evidence for why the vaga should be nerfed more than any other nano ship then please share. Because spewing the same crap about in every thread and having little to no substance to your arguements is getting tiresome.

---

Originally by: Bronson Hughes

---

Some thoughts on the new Vaga, some of them out of the box. These are not hard-and-fast things, just some ideas to try/consider.

1. I don't think that the MWD re-activation delay is really going to be a big deal for the Vaga. When you pulsed your MWD it was either to save on cap or slow down enough to hit something with your turrets. If you're only doing these things for 10 seconds at a time, then you'll either run out of cap or not hit anything anyways. (If I'm mistaken and the reactivation delay is longer than 10 seconds, then yes it could be an issue)

2. The Vaga is meant to be a fast ship, yes, but fast does not necessarily mean speed-tanking. Look at the bonuses, it's got the same bonuses as the Deimos does only better: two damage bonuses (one of which is a superior RoF bonus), a speed bonus (Cap-penalty-free MWD is a speed bonus), and a falloff bonus. Instead of orbiting at Warp Disruptor range fit for max speed/agility and doing very little damage, why not fit your Vaga for maximum gank, slap on a Large Shield Extender to give you a rather nice omni-resist buffer, and get up in your target's face like a Diemos does? Only a Vagabond could potentially do it better because it is faster and has far better falloff so it spend less time not shooting at its target. I really think that the new Vagabond could find a nice role as a Diemos-esque gank ship that's faster, has a better buffer, and can keep firing under cap warfare. Granted, this role is nowhere near as survivable as the old nano-Vaga (ask any Diemos pilot), but it's still a viable role. And if enough people start doing this, you'll have to start asking yourself, 'Is that Vaga nano'd or gank fit?'

3. I still see some people in this thread and in other places fitting low-slow nano modules as if they had the old bonuses: 2x OD 2x Nano, 3x OD 1x Nano, etc. This is dumb. Look at the new stats on the modules and you'll see why. 3x OD 1x IStab, 2x OD, 1x Nano, 1x IStab, etc. will produce more balanced fits without one bonus (speed or agility) getting hit hard with a stacking nerf.

---

Originally by: Sivonya

---

Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most

---

Originally by: Achura Model

---

Vaga is designed to spidtank because it can't tank otherwise. Caldari HACs can tank with distance, gal and ammar - with armor, vaga - with speed. Period. Yes, vaga will still be the fastest HAC after nerf but it won't be able to tank with speed. So CCP should either give it something to tank other way (say, one or even two more med slots) or leave it alone.

---

Originally by: blueops

---

Originally by: Sivonya

---

Also nerfing web hits minmatars the most because of their recons . Its same as if they reduced jamming strenght for all modules, yes all can use jammers but it would hurt falcons rooks and scorps the most

---

so what? what about the amarr pilots from the last patch, the nos nerf affected "everyone" buttt mostly affected the amarr recons, OH NOES......get over it, minmatars recons and hacs are getting what was coming to them, they were so overpowered, that everyone is flying them, not just a few overpowered here and there, but everyone is training for damned min Hac and recon, i was mainly amarr, now im more gallente, butt they got somewhat screwed on the drone nerf, so what is left to nerf, since you dont see much caldari anymore? oh the minmatar. so just as the other guy said, live and adapt to your surroundings, if you have to train a new race, QQ more.

---

Originally by: Kalintos Tyl

---

actually nightawk is small ship powner

---

Originally by: Euriti

---

Your logic says:

"Because my stuff is useless yours should be too. Ha-ha."

That's pretty immature.

---

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab

---

Originally by: Kalintos Tyl

---

actually nightawk is small ship powner

---

You must be living in a world where small ships can be hit by missiles... Where is this magic land of yours? ;)

Originally by: Euriti

---

Your logic says:

"Because my stuff is useless yours should be too. Ha-ha."

That's pretty immature.

---

Well, you're crying "My stuff is not overpowered anymore. *Waaaaaa~*". Hey, I got an idea... why don't we first nerf every hac to the same level, _THEN_ boost them all?

Sounds much more reasonable, no? Then we can all stand united in our quest to get proper hacs.

---

Originally by: Euriti

---

Seriously ccp, are you smoking ****ing weed?

---

Originally by: Uncle Smokey

---

Originally by: Euriti

---

Seriously ccp, are you smoking ****ing weed?

---

Nah, weed is a psychological drug which makes people think. CCP doesnt think, it listen's to people who are upset not able to solo every ******* ship in the game.

Why do people find it so wrong to need a sidekick to catch a target that needs a sidekick to deal competive damage? Both can be used to solo some targets, but not all. boohoo.

---

Originally by: Euriti

---

---

Originally by: Jim Hazard

---

Edited by: Jim Hazard on 11/08/2008 16:46:02

Originally by: Kagura Nikon

---

Originally by: Jim Hazard

---

Originally by: Bellum Eternus

---

I fly the Rapier/Huginn/Vaga (and nano Ishtar, nano Zealot, Nano Sac etc.) and I'm not really finding the Min cruisers nerfed.

The Minnies cry foul like *THEIR* ships were nerfed and no one elses were touched. Totally not the case. All the ships are slower, and the Minmatar ships, while slower, have an even wider gap between them and the slower ships. Percentage wise, they're faster than ever when compared to other ships of like class.

And the Rapiers? Everyone's web is nerfed. Not just the Rapiers. I'll say it again: in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

---

That is exactly the point. All the ppl whining about minmatar being disadvantaged now are just ppl who do not look at the whole picture and just cry because they might actually risk something while PvPing.

---

Single sentence for you:

Raven more agile than tempest.....

---

Raven sitting at 200km needs like 20-25 seconds till the 1st missile hits. By that time the target in most cases is either dead or warped away. So Boost ravens with cruise missiles they are definetly disadvantaged!

And since almost all ships will be slower after the patch it does not matter if you need a little bit longer to warp out as you have more time to do so...

---

Originally by: Kyle Cataclysm

---

Edited by: Kyle Cataclysm on 20/08/2008 15:22:32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

this is the proof

---

Originally by: Gabriel Cruz

---

Originally by: Kyle Cataclysm

---

Edited by: Kyle Cataclysm on 20/08/2008 15:22:32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

this is the proof

---

I got one better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65I0HNvTDH4

---

Originally by: Zhula Guixgrixks

---

Hi Siv. At the PF- station you told me, you like Claws. I think it's about time to buy one :) ??
Ok but to be serious. I cannot cover all of your points except this:
"so how can vaga be king of guerilla warfare when any ceptors can kill it easily (or asault or electronic frigs)"
It's working boths ways now. A BS will have problems hitting your Vaga unless he's neuting and doing other nasty things.

---

Quote:

---

It's not a good idea to place a Exotic Dancers in a Giant Secure Container. The Exotic Dancers will not survive intact, if transported in such a container.

---

Originally by: Amoxin

---

My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...

---

Originally by: Zhula Guixgrixks

---

Hi Siv. At the PF- station you told me, you like Claws. I think it's about time to buy one :) ??
Ok but to be serious. I cannot cover all of your points except this:
"so how can vaga be king of guerilla warfare when any ceptors can kill it easily (or asault or electronic frigs)"
It's working boths ways now. A BS will have problems hitting your Vaga unless he's neuting and doing other nasty things.

---

Originally by: Zhula Guixgrixks

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"so how can vaga be king of guerilla warfare when any ceptors can kill it easily (or asault or electronic frigs)"
It's working boths ways now. A BS will have problems hitting your Vaga unless he's neuting and doing other nasty things.

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Originally by: Sivonya

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Vagabonds are in great peril

I did test vagabond with various fitting on singularity and didnt like what i saw.

Regular vaga fit with 2 overdive, nanofiber and 2 gyro does not make vagabond go even 3km/s (orbit aroun 2.4km/s)

Full nano low slot (without gyrostabilizers), with speed hardwirings and polycarbons goes 3.6km/s (orbit around 2.9km/s)

Even when full nano fit (no gyrostabilizers - it has no dps to kill a npc in belt) in orbit of 2.9km/s it gets hammered by missiles

Now Vagabond
cant even tackle anything longer than 30 secs,
cant avoid missiles,
cant reach the falcon jamming at 200km away in reasonable time
cant runaway when situation gets hot

so how can vaga be king of guerilla warfare when any ceptors can kill it easily (or asault or electronic frigs)
minmatars got their main advantage nerfed, its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half or galente dronebays reduced to by 50%

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Originally by: Kalintos Tyl

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Originally by: Zhula Guixgrixks

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Hi Siv. At the PF- station you told me, you like Claws. I think it's about time to buy one :) ??
Ok but to be serious. I cannot cover all of your points except this:
"so how can vaga be king of guerilla warfare when any ceptors can kill it easily (or asault or electronic frigs)"
It's working boths ways now. A BS will have problems hitting your Vaga unless he's neuting and doing other nasty things.

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unless its raven that will pown you ;]

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Originally by: CCP Oveur

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Just donæt forget the reach-around.

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Originally by: Relliassa

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Edited by: Relliassa on 03/08/2008 23:30:14
So you're not totally immune to missiles, uncatchable and close to unkillable if you're a competant pilot.
Cry more.
And I thought the funniest bit was "its the same as if caldari got all shield resses cut in half" - when it's actually Caldari who've been screwed over already by precisely those ships you're BAWWWing over.

How about doing what nano*** pilots have been telling everyone else to do: adapt and survive. Yeah those words sound a whole lot nastier when it's other people saying it to you eh?

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