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Maijugs Arhueg
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Posted - 2008.08.05 22:27:00 -
[31]
TL;DR.
The better question is, why are missiles not smart enough to intercept their targets instead of following them around endlessly until their pathetic fuel supply ran out?
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Red Thunder
Most Wanted INC
G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.08.05 23:01:00 -
[32]
they do intercept their targets, they aim infront of the target if its orbiting you
Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines |
krelak
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Posted - 2008.08.06 05:56:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: RID 230
Edited by: RID 230 on 05/08/2008 15:56:21
Edited by: RID 230 on 05/08/2008 15:55:51
seriously dude...get your info from stuff other then ace combat..
Aim-9x
LOL nice video but it doesn't help the OP's case. It's a test firing video, of course they're going to have problems as they try to work the kinks out. I can show you lots of youtube videos of spaceships blowing up on the launchpad but it doesn't mean we don't have the technology to use them effectively.
How about looking up specs on fully tested and operational missiles instead? Hellfire
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.08.06 06:05:00 -
[34]
Why? Because it's the only way to do it without massive lag.
Should missiles have an initial velocity and have to turn back to hit targets outside of the front arc of their launcher? Yes.
Should turrets have to worry about firing arcs, blind spots, and objects blocking line of sight? Yes.
Can all of this be done without massively multiplying the calculations required, and generating crippling lag? No.
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Maijugs Arhueg
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Posted - 2008.08.06 06:30:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Red Thunder
they do intercept their targets, they aim infront of the target if its orbiting you
Um, no they don't.
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Taco Raptorian
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Posted - 2008.08.06 06:31:00 -
[36]
Ok my question might have sounded a bit like a whine. Of course missiles can turn quite fast and avoid objects but I was talking about when they are launched. Granted it's an mmo and they need to simplify alot of things to reduce lag, but since turrets can rotate towards the enemy why can't the launchers do this as well? Or do they?
Anyway my frustration is that there is no way to kill a missile boat with small ships (at least the close range ones) since they always get hit by the missiles. As many have said the speed change is going to make missiles even better at this. They also say that because of the change they might get fixed a bit but we haven't seen that yet so.
I was only thinking that a small ship orbiting a bigger ship at really close range will never have enough speed to outrun the missiles, which is the only current defense against them to reduce the damage taken. Do you think this is fair? Or should even missiles have some trouble following a smaller ship in close orbit to the missile launching ship?
Just a thought.
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Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.08.06 06:32:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Taco Raptorian
Ok my question might have sounded a bit like a whine. Of course missiles can turn quite fast and avoid objects but I was talking about when they are launched. Granted it's an mmo and they need to simplify alot of things to reduce lag, but since turrets can rotate towards the enemy why can't the launchers do this as well? Or do they?
Anyway my frustration is that there is no way to kill a missile boat with small ships (at least the close range ones) since they always get hit by the missiles. As many have said the speed change is going to make missiles even better at this. They also say that because of the change they might get fixed a bit but we haven't seen that yet so.
I was only thinking that a small ship orbiting a bigger ship at really close range will never have enough speed to outrun the missiles, which is the only current defense against them to reduce the damage taken. Do you think this is fair? Or should even missiles have some trouble following a smaller ship in close orbit to the missile launching ship?
Just a thought.
There was a time I'm told that missiles actually acted like missiles (I.E. they didn't have infinite agility like they seem to now). They didn't work terribly well I'm told.
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Wil Smithx
Minmatar
Suns Of Korhal
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Posted - 2008.08.06 06:55:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Taco Raptorian
Originally by: Gawain Hill
because the missiles lock onto the target ship BEFORE the ship launches them at which point they go chase it using fancy computers
Yes, ok but if the ship that the missile have locked on to is moving very fast in orbit around the launcher the missile should have to chase the target and not go straight at it and instantly hit. Sometimes straight through the launching ship.
If missiles chased a target they would have the worst AI ever...
They wouldnt hit anything cos everything is nano and obviously faster than they are, instead it plots an intercept course thus is able to hit stuff moving much faster than it.
This is called good programing, and dear god if you made eve I would be worried
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Taco Raptorian
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Posted - 2008.08.06 07:08:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Wil Smithx
If missiles chased a target they would have the worst AI ever...
They wouldnt hit anything cos everything is nano and obviously faster than they are, instead it plots an intercept course thus is able to hit stuff moving much faster than it.
This is called good programing, and dear god if you made eve I would be worried
I think you misunderstood me. Where did I claim that missiles always should have to chase targets like a blind fool playing tag. My point was that missiles fired at a ship in close orbit to the ship launching the missile shouldn't instantly hit. Yes it is a limitation that missiles go through ships (even your own) to sometimes get to their intercept course similar to turrets firing through solid structures. I already explained my point in the last post I made.
If I made eve I wouldn't bother posting questions because then I could balance things myself, and dear god if you could read my post before commenting I would be glad.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2008.08.06 07:52:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Nightsheir
Which is the main problem in eve . Simple orbits and simple transversal velocities is all you need to beat that second hand ship computers we have .
I think it's more an issue of the turret not being able to physically turn fast enough to track the target.
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Wil Smithx
Minmatar
Suns Of Korhal
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Posted - 2008.08.06 08:19:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Derek Sigres
Originally by: Taco Raptorian
Ok my question might have sounded a bit like a whine. Of course missiles can turn quite fast and avoid objects but I was talking about when they are launched. Granted it's an mmo and they need to simplify alot of things to reduce lag, but since turrets can rotate towards the enemy why can't the launchers do this as well? Or do they?
Anyway my frustration is that there is no way to kill a missile boat with small ships (at least the close range ones) since they always get hit by the missiles. As many have said the speed change is going to make missiles even better at this. They also say that because of the change they might get fixed a bit but we haven't seen that yet so.
I was only thinking that a small ship orbiting a bigger ship at really close range will never have enough speed to outrun the missiles, which is the only current defense against them to reduce the damage taken. Do you think this is fair? Or should even missiles have some trouble following a smaller ship in close orbit to the missile launching ship?
Just a thought.
There was a time I'm told that missiles actually acted like missiles (I.E. they didn't have infinite agility like they seem to now). They didn't work terribly well I'm told.
Thinking about that I seem to remember zig-zagging torps...
Anyways to the OP the trick is to have a partial tank on your ship, you know like all the speed pilots did before nano... do you even remember that?! probably not :P anyways, yea, speed reduces missile damage and so does sig radius a lot, so try using an afterburner and tank on your interceptor (I know you havent mentioned inty, its an example) instead of trying to get the highest speed possible.
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Wil Smithx
Minmatar
Suns Of Korhal
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Posted - 2008.08.06 08:36:00 -
[42]
I believe I have come up with a reason as to my missiles instantly hit in regards to their programming and history...
In days of time gone past, missiles damaged everything inside their blast radius, this was obvious removed because it made any use of them near stations or gates almost impossible (because tanking sentry damage in 2003 [when 0.0 rats were 20k bounty cruisers] with no T2 was hard).
Taking this into account it would likely be safe to assume that missiles don't ever ''hit'' their targets, they get to a distance and blow up, so when a ship is in a close fast orbit, no matter where the missile is launched it will probably come within that range in under 1 second, hence instant hit.
And where this would have also hit the battleship shooting the missile in 2003, thank god it doesn't now.
As for your concerns with ballance issues, which you seem to be making with the comparision to turrets, I think this is somewhat unimportant in the face of other ballance issues for the moment.
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