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Brianna Wyvernsbane
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.14 09:11:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Divad Ginleek
The solution to the problem: train an alt to *race name* industrial 1, find some macros, and haul their ice for them (straight to your hanger).
or, if your rich, fill a BS with smart bombs and pay a visit to the middle of their group in all your pulsating glory.
LOL, sweet. thanks for the RL lol 
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.08.14 11:10:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Tinker1947
Quote:
Personally I think the dozen ships that perform all activities in perfect syncronisation is the dead give away. A human would not be able to activate modules across multiple ships without some tiny amount of delay, repeatedly. With just a single ship, it's much harder to detect.
I run 5 Hulks in ice/ore systems, when there doing the ice i gang them, they all warp on the click of a button, i unloaded them 1 at a time into a pos corp hanger, them 1 click they all warp back, i then have to set each ship to mine a ice riod, but they do all come and go at the same time....
It's not coming and going which can be done by gang warp, but it's the activation of modules, which will require any non-macro to click on one at a time, if you activate all 5 hulk's miners with one click, that's a macro.
I really have trouble seeing how you can think that mining in a GSC is more efficient, at least after you get a barge.
AFK no, low attention while mining in high sec? sure.
You don't lose all the time you spend docking and undocking and warping etc. Instead you have one hauler that can haul a GSC or two at once. It also means you can then fit a barge for the best mining speed possible, instead of the expanded cargohold fits which only become worth using when spending most of the mining time AFK.
Quote:
The solution to the problem: train an alt to *race name* industrial 1, find some macros, and haul their ice for them (straight to your hanger).
They used to fall for that, but these days they just warp back to the station and unload, because for a person, that's more effort, but for a macro, it means their income source is guaranteed and at a fixed rate. A person can also watch for theives and call in friends to ensure that and are sent home in a pod, a macro can't.
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Satrani Destiva
Caldari
Just Another Indy Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.14 15:22:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
It's not coming and going which can be done by gang warp, but it's the activation of modules, which will require any non-macro to click on one at a time, if you activate all 5 hulk's miners with one click, that's a macro.
That's not accurate either. When I drop into the belt I hit my lasers and my SB then just choose the piece of ice I want to kill, the lasers will both automatically lock on and activate at the same time. It's slightly faster than targeting the piece of ice and then activating the lasers.
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Notarri
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Posted - 2008.08.15 01:52:00 -
[64]
I think what is most intersting is that I have read several posts, and I have not seen an official CCP post or reply on the subject of macro mining or what they have done and continue to do (if anything) about it. I have seen lots of people guessing what they do or don't do, and maybe some of these people are in the know, but I would like an official stance and sticky on this subject from CCP themselves.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.15 07:40:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
Quote:
I really have trouble seeing how you can think that mining in a GSC is more efficient, at least after you get a barge.
AFK no, low attention while mining in high sec? sure.
You don't lose all the time you spend docking and undocking and warping etc. Instead you have one hauler that can haul a GSC or two at once. It also means you can then fit a barge for the best mining speed possible, instead of the expanded cargohold fits which only become worth using when spending most of the mining time AFK.
If I am minining in a gang I use a jetcan, filling it only when the hauler is there. If I am mining alone I try to be in a exploration site so to avoid can flippers.
Moving from an anchored GSC to another is so slow to make it the worst solution in my eyes and unanchored GSC do nothing.
Originally by: Gamesguy
the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.08.15 08:13:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Notarri
I think what is most intersting is that I have read several posts, and I have not seen an official CCP post or reply on the subject of macro mining or what they have done and continue to do (if anything) about it. I have seen lots of people guessing what they do or don't do, and maybe some of these people are in the know, but I would like an official stance and sticky on this subject from CCP themselves.
Look in General Forum for the official macro thread.
CCP will never say what they do as it will help the macro user to counter it.
Originally by: Gamesguy
the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.
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Kigyouka
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Posted - 2008.08.15 09:05:00 -
[67]
Heck I must be a macro miner. I never talk in local, hit lasers as i land then target...never use sb......
As ice mining is so mind numbing....i usally carry on with rl work when mining ice, for myself and not the market.
On a footnote, I dont think CCP will ever be able to stop the macro miners as there is just too many of them and the fact that new macro programmes are alway comming out. I dont like them either, but they are a sad fact of life in eve. We could all gank them but we will then get concorded. I suppose we could knock them of the ice, but within a minute or so they would be back on target.
One way to reduce the damage macros miners do, is to make the ice short lasting like the astroid belts. Once the ice is gone they would have to retarget, may not stop them but at least it would slow them down a bit.
Just my thoughts..
Kig
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Bak Vlok
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.08.15 12:39:00 -
[68]
All it would take is some patrolling Polaris frigates from time to time. I wouldn't even want to call them in, the GMs should just fly around known macrominer hotspots.
Then with Polaris weapons execute the whole macro operation on the spot, make them lose the illgotten ISK and they'll start looking for other ways to make RL money soon 
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Tinker1947
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Posted - 2008.08.20 23:20:00 -
[69]
I think this would slow down macrominers , make all Empire Ice systems in systems with no stations, normal players would then do faction standing to get a POS in the system, i doubt a macrominer would go to the bother and he's got to make his own corp(wardec's) to do it. |
Thaos
Gallente
Techell Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.31 07:08:00 -
[70]
mining is boring. and macro miners do get banned, so stop fretting and go do something else for awhile. as far as i'm concerned macro's are the best thing to happen to mining ever, and any boring redundant task in an MMORPG, cheap raw materials en mass, means cheap products on the market, which means affordable PvP for everyone. peace out, girl scout.
Retired production man cow. |
Kyra Felann
Gallente
Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2008.08.31 20:01:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Satrani Destiva
Originally by: Lord Fitz
It's not coming and going which can be done by gang warp, but it's the activation of modules, which will require any non-macro to click on one at a time, if you activate all 5 hulk's miners with one click, that's a macro.
That's not accurate either. When I drop into the belt I hit my lasers and my SB then just choose the piece of ice I want to kill, the lasers will both automatically lock on and activate at the same time. It's slightly faster than targeting the piece of ice and then activating the lasers.
Along with using keyboard shortcuts instead of clicking. F1-F8 are there for a reason.
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Jonna Andromedae
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Posted - 2008.08.31 20:44:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Chrono Homega
Ice price will never go back up. There should be a stock of about 10000 billions of ice units and a demand of about 1 million a month...
It will, oooh it will 
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Jonna Andromedae
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Posted - 2008.08.31 20:45:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Jonna Andromedae on 31/08/2008 20:45:45
Originally by: Thaos
mining is boring. and macro miners do get banned, so stop fretting and go do something else for awhile. as far as i'm concerned macro's are the best thing to happen to mining ever, and any boring redundant task in an MMORPG, cheap raw materials en mass, means cheap products on the market, which means affordable PvP for everyone. peace out, girl scout.
So you think that it's cool that one profession is controlled by AI?
Hauling is boring too, can I get AI haulers to move my stuff around the galaxy?
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.09.01 11:50:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Satrani Destiva
Originally by: Lord Fitz
It's not coming and going which can be done by gang warp, but it's the activation of modules, which will require any non-macro to click on one at a time, if you activate all 5 hulk's miners with one click, that's a macro.
That's not accurate either. When I drop into the belt I hit my lasers and my SB then just choose the piece of ice I want to kill, the lasers will both automatically lock on and activate at the same time. It's slightly faster than targeting the piece of ice and then activating the lasers.
I'm not talking about all the lasers on a single ship activating at once, that much is a given, I'm talking about perfect synchronisation over 10+ ships. A human must lock onto ice with one account, and then another, and then another. Even if you are very fast the delay will be noticable, a macro can do it for every ship at the same fraction of a second. |
KAELA MENSHA
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Posted - 2008.09.01 12:41:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Sysion
Edited by: Sysion on 13/08/2008 16:20:21
IMO, dealing with macroers is best done on an individual basis than to "solve" it.
If all macroers disappeared tomorrow, sure prices would go up, and you'd see new players and PvPers mining to cash in, but it wouldn't last. Prices would drop some, but never return to norm. Long term, PvPers would get bored with it, and most would return to doing what they normally do. Then the supply is no longer what it used to be, so prices would eventually reach a new, higher equilibrium.
And then, in the nature of all MMOs, the grass is always greener on the other side. Player complain about macroers now, wanting CCP to solve the problem, if they solved it, then you'd have players complaining about mineral prices and ship/module prices and wanting CCP to "fix" that problem. If they tried "automatic detection", you'd then get players screaming bloody murder when they were a false positive, and then they'd start calling for "fixing" the automatic detection.
ALL TRUE |
Darkeen
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.02 05:53:00 -
[76]
Originally by: fatesealed
you need rats in all ice belts and make them spawn more often and make the belt smaller because at the moment when a rat comes you can just warp to the top of the belt and they dont attack you
I agree.
I mine ICE in empire and casn only do so for an hour a day AT MOST (wife and baby to look after in RL).
I need the Rats to spawn more often so I can increase my loot and bounties and sell more T1 loot in empire!!!
(ROFLMAO)! |
Keikun87
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Posted - 2008.09.02 21:26:00 -
[77]
well my thought on the matter is simple, too many people are mining ice, and to tell you the truth, mining ice in high sec is the easiest way to just click mine the work on something else, for 10-15 minutes then check on it, then wait another 10-15 minutes, thats why. a lot of people do it cause the skills to get ice harvesting is easy as well as pretty much the machinaw is the only mining vessel suited to do the job right, people watch movies, play other games, take care of RL activities do this cause all its doing is creating profit, but if everyone is doing it the market for the ice will crash, I believe that the market will jump back up, that's why I'm stoke piling any ice i mine cause where I'm at, its 60k each, witch to my opinion should be more cause we miners are the ones creating the risk even in high sec to mine this cause of well kamakazie pilots. and if you mine ice in low sec you either have to have a huge fleet backing you up or know for a fact that space is deep I MEAN DEEP in your territory, meaning only the big shot eve players would do it.
other than that its just too risky
Peace
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Xultanis
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Posted - 2008.09.03 06:48:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Xultanis on 03/09/2008 06:49:53
Alright, heres what needs to be done to macrominers. People with accounts and characters that farm under macros are a problem for any game. WoW had it, Star wars had it, even Eve has it. Only in EvE ladies and gentlemen can something be done about it.
If you have someone who is a suspected macroer. After various tries trying to verify who they really are. Be it trying to start a convo with them, if they don't decline then watch for responses. Anyone who was younger and was on yahoo chat knows how to spot bots. They are programmed to give answers to certain words where letters are printed together.
You say Hi...."their response"....you say hi again....try to keep talking if the person doesnt seem to get irritated or the various responses has no change then their macroers. Someone of them are programmed to warp out immediatedly after someone locks onto them....not just fires but locks on. If you lock on and they warp out then its a chance they are macrominers. You could do so much to test and verify who they are.
Now this brings me to my 2 suggestions to fix this. Like someone suggested earlier, more rats. The more their are the harder it is. Soon the person will actually have to be there with their alt protecting it. This brings problems for all your solo pilots because now you will need either a mining partner or you will need to fit defenses or even switch out from ship to ship.
The second suggestion......again ladies and gentlemen this is EvE...the only game where not only is it common place but sometimes even greatly rewarded to screw someone over to the point of them crying. If you think they are a macro.....then flip the can get them to do the work for you...if they try to attack you warp back to the station and wait...if you come back and your can is still there well there you go. You dont take a sec hit and this way you get someone else to do the work for you.
Seriously people make a market out of trying to find new ways of screwing each other over. Figure it out and have fun.
In most online chatrooms or mmorpgs, if someone is being annoying or a dumbass, well then you put them on ignore.
In EvE if someone is being annoying and a dumbass.....you can shoot their stupid ass.
*Edit* I also don't know but even if they do attack back after the can flip, if you have a bigger ship, just kill them, concord dont get involved. However I don't know if you take a sec hit even if there was aggression timer. |
Creta Kano
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Posted - 2008.09.03 19:15:00 -
[79]
So, exactly how much firepower does one need to kill, say, a Mackinaw?
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Kephael
Caldari
LEAP Corp
Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.09.04 00:10:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Kephael on 04/09/2008 00:10:33
Originally by: Creta Kano
So, exactly how much firepower does one need to kill, say, a Mackinaw?
CNR in full faction setup, be sure to convo me so I know where you're doing this and when you're doing it so I can back you up with fleet bonuses.
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Aesynil
Caldari
The Unit...
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Posted - 2008.09.04 05:43:00 -
[81]
Faction if the Mackinaw is un-tanked. If they have a shield booster running, better upgrade to officer to be safe.
The Unit pursues invention, manufacturing, mining, and research. Evemail us if you need anything related to Science and Industry. |
Creta Kano
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Posted - 2008.09.04 06:25:00 -
[82]
Lol, nice try! I wish I had one... But seriously, EFT says that theoretically a decent skills Brutix should take one out no problem. How long approximately do I have after I open fire? 5 sec? 10? 20? I'd nuke them with SBs, but the 3x increased pod kill penalty in the latest patch makes it a costly proposition. I know this is an Industry forum, but someone here must have an idea. C'mon guys, i'd be only doing you a favor |
Satrani Destiva
Caldari
Just Another Indy Corp
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Posted - 2008.09.04 07:26:00 -
[83]
Victim: Satrani Destiva
Corp: Just Another Indy Corp
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Destroyed: Mackinaw
System: Kino
Security: 0.7
Damage Taken: 3609
Involved parties:
Name: ElanMorin6 (laid the final blow)
Security: -1.6
Corp: Ars ex Discordia
Alliance: GoonSwarm
Faction: NONE
Ship: Thorax
Weapon: Regulated Neutron Phase Cannon I
Damage Done: 3609
It used to take only a thorax but with the latest patch and decreased response times can't be sure anymore.
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Creta Kano
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Posted - 2008.09.04 08:08:00 -
[84]
Thanks for sharing, Satrani!
Those Goons - to go after an actual player when there are so many obvious macro targets around (unless your corp was wardecced, ofc). Well, I'll be more selective, I promise Now, would you guys care to share your observations as to what systems are the most infested ones?
Got me a cheap Thorax BPC, we're i business
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Satrani Destiva
Caldari
Just Another Indy Corp
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Posted - 2008.09.04 08:43:00 -
[85]
Nope no war dec just a pure suicide gank, for my Pith b type shield booster I would guess. I only use a c type now which is worth less but more powerful than a tech 2.
As for infested systems, choose one with an ice belt and you will find plenty of targets but please do your research before killing also if you let me know what is a good time for you I will gladly bring a mack to meet you on the test server so you can test setups and concorde response times in different security areas.
By the way I did try a disco raven against a mack and I couldn't pop it even in a 0.5 before getting concorded (probably lacking skills for using them effectively)
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Infomad
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Posted - 2008.09.04 22:37:00 -
[86]
It seems to me the easiest solution would be to increase the the spawn and strength of the rats in ice belts.
If someone is using some kind of macro program then it will become much more dangerous for them to leave their ship on auto-mine.
Then again macros programs are probably advanced enough to watch the shields. 
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