Originally by: csebal

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Ideally i think it should look like this:

high sec - least risk, least reward:
1-4/10 income. (mostly low end mining and lv1-lv3 agents)
low sec - high risk, more reward:
5-8/10 income. (mining, exploration, rats and lv4 agents)
zero sec - variable risk, most reward:
6-10/10 income. (the usual stuff)

It just shouldnt be possible for the income to be comparative to eachother between high sec and the other two levels. between low and zero sec i wouldnt make such a difference, as low sec is actually more dangerous than zero sec in some cases. Guess the reason for the overlapping income scales.

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Originally by: KISOGOKU

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Edited by: KISOGOKU on 08/08/2008 09:17:20
if you are making 25-30m with 1.8m Bs spawns you are doing it wrong ,i was making 25m easliy with 1.3m Bs spawns(no loot or salvage) with siege raven(when i was still noob) and dont forget faction spawns i made 600m from faction loot at 45 days and it was from crappy angels
edit :added (when i was still noob)

Originally by: Havohej

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In 0.0, true sec under -0.7 (that is, the rats with the 1.8M bounties which is pretty good) I made 25-30M per hour

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Originally by: CCP Explorer

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You can still steal their stuff.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Edited by: Crumplecorn on 07/08/2008 18:12:58

Originally by: Deej Montana

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I don't get why you "nerf missions" guys care so much about how much people can potentially make in high sec. So there are people who have more stuff than you? Too bad, deal with it. You don't hear the high sec crowd complaining about not having moons to mine or million isk rats to kill or rare ore to mine do you? No. We go about our business and play the game the way we like, as is our right as a paying CCP customer. We understand that there are (in theory) lots of isk to be made in low and null sec, but for our own reasons, we choose to remain in Empire.

Why the hell do you care?

Don't tell me it's because you want to maintain the "integrity of the developers vision" or any of that crap. At least be honest; you either want a bunch of what you see as soft targets to gank risk free, or, you're petulant children who can't stand that someone else has gotten more than you and had fun while doing it.

How about we make a deal? You play Eve the way you like and so will I.

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Perhaps we recognise that this is MMORPG and as such everyone everywhere needs to be playing by the same basic rules - like Risk/Reward.

I know that since mission running is basically a single player game that it is easy to forget this, but you are part of the game, and do have an effect, and thus need to be regulated like everyone else.

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.

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Originally by: Andrue

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Edited by: Andrue on 08/08/2008 09:31:48
What so many of these bullies don't understand or can't accept is that the high-sec residents (ie;those that choose to live there rather than just being fund providers for PvP mains) are not stupid. They are not paying a monthly subscription to be someone else' victim.

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Originally by: Dura'Lorth

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Move lv 3 missions to 0.5-0.3 sec space, and lv 4 missions to 0.3-0.0 sec space. No one should be able to make that much isk off these mission in high sec systems, it causes lag. And makes sense RPwise since how hard it would be for pirate faction battle ships to use jump gates into 0.9-0.7 mission hubs.

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Quote:

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down near the station bio mass plant you can buy burgers that are 5% pork and 95% CRAP

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Originally by: TrulyKosh

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Originally by: Havohej

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Originally by: Pithecanthropus

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How much isk are these missioners making? More than carebears ratting in 0.0? I doubt it.

These missioners put in time... in return they make isk. Seems like you pvpers need to realize their time is just as valuable as your time. Perhaps you should use YOUR time more wisely.

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You doubt it and you're wrong.

In 0.0, true sec under -0.7 (that is, the rats with the 1.8M bounties which is pretty good) I made 25-30M per hour depending on luck with the spawns in a relatively un-crowded system with 12 belts (more miners there than ratters).

Since spending some time in lowsec with a Q-18 L4 agent, I've found myself making 25-40M per hour, depending on luck with mission assignments (sometimes he has me killing faction NPCs or drones which don't have bounties, but usually it's been nice missions like Angel Extravaganza or The Blockade or Mordus Headhunters, with lots of crap to shoot at).

That's a Q-18. I know of highsec mission hubs with Q-20 agents! Higher quality = higher mission rewards, higher standings increases...

The rat bounties and mission rewards alone add up to equal or greater than 0.0 ratting, depending on the quality of the 0.0 ratting space, then you add the salvage, loot and Loyalty Point store merchandise that mission runners earn (Faction ammo is still a goldmine) and yeah... High sec missions ARE making more ISK than carebears in 0.0 ratting.

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You are casually ignoring the income of possible faction/officer spawns, hauler spawns, exploration sites, encounter sites and the mining towers humming in the background (even if it's not dysprosium). If you add LP store merchandise to the empire income, let's just be fair and include everything 0.0 has to offer as well, thx

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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Someone is point a gun to you and say: If you run missions you are killed?

You play by the same rules. You don't like missions so you don't want to do them? fine. But no one is keeping missions away from you.

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Originally by: GallenteCitizen20080615

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it says it right there in the genre

Massivly >>>>>Multiplayer<<<<< online game

what multiplayer about mining or missioning atm

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Quote:

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A) move missions into low sec for example level 4 low sec level 5's 0.0
B) reduce the isk reward from these missions
C) actually make then challanging with the lower reward were talking like why more heavier hitters in missions e.g you need a group to complete it with you because there pumping out to much damage and so need to kill more in one go to relieve the damage

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Originally by: csebal

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Originally by: Andrue

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Edited by: Andrue on 08/08/2008 09:31:48
What so many of these bullies don't understand or can't accept is that the high-sec residents (ie;those that choose to live there rather than just being fund providers for PvP mains) are not stupid. They are not paying a monthly subscription to be someone else' victim.

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Actually, the above sentence quite clearly proves that at least one of them is stpid.
You just cant separate yourself from the thought, that all the ideas around here are only aimed to get you into the land of pirates where they can feast on your puny carebear body.

Get a life please.. the world does not revolve around you or your kind, although your post suggest you might think otherwise.

Noone said that they should just pull the plug on high sec. They should merely lower high sec revenues and increase low sec ones until those who are not complete p***ies get up their a**es and go down there.

Why would they go down there? Because the rewards there would be worth even the risk pirates mean. Not because the pirates wanted them to go there, but because they themselves thought that its better for them there, then it is in high sec.

At the same time, the likes of you can rot in high sec for all i care and lick the salt that remained in place of the belts while you grind an endless stream of lvl 3 missions till your nose bleeds.

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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Someone is point a gun to you and say: If you run missions you are killed?

You play by the same rules. You don't like missions so you don't want to do them? fine. But no one is keeping missions away from you.

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That response has amazing little to do with my post.

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Originally by: Gamesguy

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the suicide ganking is merely an isk farming activity.

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Originally by: Tippia

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If mission runners didn't have to choose between PvP and PvE fits, then maybe they'd stand a better chance when someone barges in on them, making them less reluctant to run missions in lowsec.

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Originally by: Soulita

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Not realy.

Some people run missions mostly alone. Going alone into low-sec or 0.0 with an expensive ship (even with a pvp fit) is the kind of stuff people laugh about when they read the whine post of someone who did just that and got ganked by a blobity blob...

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Soulita

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Not realy.

Some people run missions mostly alone. Going alone into low-sec or 0.0 with an expensive ship (even with a pvp fit) is the kind of stuff people laugh about when they read the whine post of someone who did just that and got ganked by a blobity blob...

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You're probably right, but it would be a startà

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Originally by: Myz Toyou

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Originally by: TrulyKosh

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Originally by: Havohej

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Originally by: Pithecanthropus

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How much isk are these missioners making? More than carebears ratting in 0.0? I doubt it.

These missioners put in time... in return they make isk. Seems like you pvpers need to realize their time is just as valuable as your time. Perhaps you should use YOUR time more wisely.

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You doubt it and you're wrong.

In 0.0, true sec under -0.7 (that is, the rats with the 1.8M bounties which is pretty good) I made 25-30M per hour depending on luck with the spawns in a relatively un-crowded system with 12 belts (more miners there than ratters).

Since spending some time in lowsec with a Q-18 L4 agent, I've found myself making 25-40M per hour, depending on luck with mission assignments (sometimes he has me killing faction NPCs or drones which don't have bounties, but usually it's been nice missions like Angel Extravaganza or The Blockade or Mordus Headhunters, with lots of crap to shoot at).

That's a Q-18. I know of highsec mission hubs with Q-20 agents! Higher quality = higher mission rewards, higher standings increases...

The rat bounties and mission rewards alone add up to equal or greater than 0.0 ratting, depending on the quality of the 0.0 ratting space, then you add the salvage, loot and Loyalty Point store merchandise that mission runners earn (Faction ammo is still a goldmine) and yeah... High sec missions ARE making more ISK than carebears in 0.0 ratting.

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You are casually ignoring the income of possible faction/officer spawns, hauler spawns, exploration sites, encounter sites and the mining towers humming in the background (even if it's not dysprosium). If you add LP store merchandise to the empire income, let's just be fair and include everything 0.0 has to offer as well, thx

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I live in 0.0 since I startet playing EVE in early 06, most of the time not in NPC 0.0 witch means that Hauler spawns normally go into corp hangar to build ammo for members of your POSses you have to set up.
Moonmining is not done on a personal level in 0.0, its done by Corp/Alliance to fund POSses/fuel/Dreads to protect the region you claim.
In all my time out in 0.0 I had 1 Officer spawn ( Thon ) who was very kind to me with loot worth 1.7bil in total. Sure I had some faction spawns in that time too but nothing that would have make my wallet explode ( hardeners and ammo dont give you real isk ).
I also have second account witch is mainly carebear skilled, this one fs able to run a lvl4 Q-18 agent since 3 month and made me combined with loot, bounty, LP nearly 2.5bil in that time without grinding 10 missions a day.
So, what do you think I prefer since 3 month to come to my income ? A decent income and 99% safety or a decent income with zero safety ?

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Originally by: Soulita

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A start for what though?

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Originally by: Princess Boon

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That being said, I'm still more in favor of adjusting the reward based on the demand for missions from an agent.

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Originally by: Princess Boon

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A point has been made about if Level 4 agents were to all move to lo-sec, then all the mission runners would do level 3's.

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Soulita

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A start for what though?

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A start for mission runners to be less afraid of finding themselves in a PvP situation, be it in highsec, lowsec, or wherever.

Until such a change happens, PvP and PvE will be impossible to combine, which is unfortunate in a game where PvP is everywhere and where one of the fundamental principles is that you have very little choice in when PvP might happen.

Like you say: PvE and PvP are different playstyles, but they don't need to be. Bringing the two closer together would upen up a whole slew of new options for balancing risk and reward.

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Originally by: TrulyKosh

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Originally by: Princess Boon

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That being said, I'm still more in favor of adjusting the reward based on the demand for missions from an agent.

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Thinking strictly along these lines, the least desirable agents and missions would yield the best rewards. That would be lvl 1 mining missions (but that may be just my personal preference).

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Originally by: TrulyKosh

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Edited by: TrulyKosh on 08/08/2008 10:48:22

Even a simple technetium moon yields 250m/month atm. That is a lot of isk to buy fuel :)
I lived in 0.0 for years myself and judging from all this mission nerf whine I get the impression that all these 1000s of alliance members are fundamentally wrong. I never saw BoB fight Goons over access to the best lvl4 high sec agents. or any other alliance for that matter. So there must be something in 0.0 worth all that trouble. If you have so far failed to find it, sry m8

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Originally by: Amateratsu

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Never going to happen, keep dreaming....

Nerfing missions to low-sec so you piewats can have your wicked way would cause a s**t storm on a scale never before seen in eve and would prove seriously damaging to ccp's subscriptions revenue.

You will just have to go find targets to pew pew elsewhere.

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Originally by: Dura'Lorth

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People want a solo game, but that ruins it for everyone else who wants interaction, They can fit WCS they can use scouts they can mission in groups to protect them selves.


They could Form an alliance, where corps of missioners help produce and support a PVP wing. A swarm of frigs can take out a BS, or other gangs, t1 frigs with t1 fits can do massive dmg.

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Originally by: Dura'Lorth

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Move lv 3 missions to 0.5-0.3 sec space, and lv 4 missions to 0.3-0.0 sec space. No one should be able to make that much isk off these mission in high sec systems, it causes lag. And makes sense RPwise since how hard it would be for pirate faction battle ships to use jump gates into 0.9-0.7 mission hubs.

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Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes

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Originally by: Dura'Lorth

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People want a solo game, but that ruins it for everyone else who wants interaction, They can fit WCS they can use scouts they can mission in groups to protect them selves.


They could Form an alliance, where corps of missioners help produce and support a PVP wing. A swarm of frigs can take out a BS, or other gangs, t1 frigs with t1 fits can do massive dmg.

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You know what? So can you. Form an alliance and try to take a constallation from the established 0.0 alliances. That should give you plenty of risk and, if you pull it off, a lot of reward. So why don't you do that when you are aching for some good fights?

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