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Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.08.09 09:39:00 - [61] Originally by: Naomi Knight Pick ORKZ ,they are mean and green and all about gank and tank , the orks are the futureˇ^ 'Green is goood.' 'Lets make it orkey!' 'Orks! Orks! Orks!' Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Yakov Draken Minmatar Tides Of War	Posted - 2008.08.09 11:04:00 - [62] Originally by: Jim McGregor The only minmatar advantage is using no cap for guns, so we have to use that to our advantage in any way possible. So using neutralizers, cap injectors, tracking disruptors etc is the only way to win a fight since DPS or tank wont do it for us. My Tempest with neutralizers has like 350/450 dps (barrage/hail) from turrets and 150 dps from drones. Its not fitted for dps since there is no point. I get the first part paragraph but I disagree that "there is no point" in fitting for damage. The Tempest works well in remote rep gangs (which is better than it works in most other situations) and bulking out on 1600mm plates is generally a waste of time while extra damage to kill stuff is always good. Yes the Tempests damage is dissapointing in extended fights but the best way to win a fight is to vapourize the enemy asap and reduce the incoming damage. So often in small gang combat it is about killing stuff quick before they dock, de-aggro and jumps out, overwhelming reinforcements arrive, they make it back to the gate etc. With max tank you may survive when you would otherwise have died but if everyone else in the gang has max tank then you won't kill things fast so you will die despite your max tank. With a gang setup with optimised resists, a decent hitpoint buffer, remote repping (which a Tempest is suited for with its 2 utility slots), and decent gank you are about as likely to survive and you will kill more stuff. You will also get to top kill mails in lots of ganks due to the instant damage and win top damage dealer of the month despite flying a low dps BS. I know because I have done it numerous times. My standard RR Tempest fit is with 2x gyro's and only one 1600mm plate. I tried having only one gyro but I wasn't happy with it and never went back. I understand some people like tank and that is fine but don't go thinking there is no point in having more damage. MOAR DAMAGE!
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2008.08.09 11:33:00 - [63] Fleet Issue Tempests are going cheap, maybe I should pick one up and see what happens... Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.09 11:44:00 - [64] Edited by: DeadDuck on 09/08/2008 11:44:53 When do people stop thinking that certain race ships are better then the other ones ... In the end what counts is the fit you are using and how good you know the ship you are flying. ________________ God is my Wingman
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.08.09 12:13:00 - [65] Each has its strengths and some might be a little better in a few more situations or something but you can make them all work. The best choice for your friend probably depends on what he's looking for but if you want fotm, it's amarr. Amarr are strong for large scale tank-n-spank fleet grinders where buffer, range, and damage are king. Amarr also gets great caps. The big caldari strength is ewar but their focus on missiles does turn out nicely for damage in small and medium scale fights. They tend to have the best range but the least speed. Caldari can perform well in all kinds of sub-cap fights but can be borring to fly (or so I hear). Minmatar is about speed. This works well for BCs and lower and makes them strong tacklers and skirmishers but doesn't seem to turn out so well for BSs and caps. The phoon BS does have some nice strengths though and is strong in its own special way, but it's not really a fleet ship. For fleet work minmatar are probably a little weak, although their dictors are good. Gallente are fairly balanced all around. They aren't amazing at any one kind of engagement but they start strong in ceptors and finish strong in caps. All their ship classes get the job done pretty well. Short of fleet fights, the gallente way of things is generally in close blaster and drone damage. Its suicidal but the damage is monsterous.
Happster Polaris Project	Posted - 2008.08.09 14:47:00 - [66] Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 09/08/2008 11:44:53 In the end what counts is the fit you are using and how good you know the ship you are flying. Indeed! That is why i stopped flying the Tempest and the Maelstrom. I know their no good. I know how the ship performs so i rather fly other ships ;) The phoon on the other hand can be fitted to be an awsome ship if fitted with right modules. So i still fly that one. Rest of the ships i fly now is either caldari or gallente.
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.08.09 15:29:00 - [67] Edited by: BiggestT on 09/08/2008 15:29:51 Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky IF you are going to PvP, Amarr/Mini/Gallente/Caldari in that order. ^this for prenerf.. Amarr/Caldari/Gallente/Mini ^this for postnerf edit: typo poudly annoying fc's since 2007 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=828123 caldari drone boat enthusiast
Wild Rho Amarr Silent Core	Posted - 2008.08.09 15:33:00 - [68] Over the course of Eve every race has had its good times and bad times and it's unlikely this cycle will ever change so just pick a race you enjoy flying at stick with it. It'll be a nuisance when you're race is on the crappy end of the nerf bat but it never stays like that forever.
adriaans Amarr Explora Empire Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.08.09 19:34:00 - [69] Originally by: Meridius Dex I chose Amarr when I first started playing EVE due to their RP aspects as vicious overlords and cool feudalistic types. But I mostly chose them because they had all the coolest-looking ships. But to tell a noob to journey down that path based solely on the mechanics of the game? You'd have to be sadistic. Sure, our pulse lasers track great and have sweet optimals. But try firing them for more than 50 seconds if you have less than 4M skill points. The thing that makes Caldari so great (even before the patch makes missile relevant versus speed-tanking again) is that for just 3-4M SPs you can fly a PvP ship with an awesome tank and do plenty of missions on the side. Seriously, an Amarr or Minnie character with that many SPs can barely climb a hill, whereas a Caldari can be flying a Drake or, hell, even a Raven! An Amarr character is basically lulz in PvP until he gets to at least 8-10M SP. Gallente are somewhere in between and drones are the one weapon system you can rely on across several racially-varied ships. this, though i must say even 10 mill sp is little for amarr to pvp in (assuming bigger ships) and funny, same reason i picked amarr when i started :D -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
JadeMako dearg doom	Posted - 2008.08.09 20:22:00 - [70] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Sin Stylejr Skill minmatar. They are next in line for a nice buff. By the time you get decently skilled in their ships the buff should arrive. If you skill into amarr starting now you will be very skilled at the next nerf bat beating. Not sure how long you've been around here, but that's not how CCP operates. Buffs come by indirect buffs and minimal (5%) tweaking. Nerfs come in halving effectiveness of "x". You can quote me on this when I say... Once CCP recognizes minmatar is broken (What? The helios only has 3 highslots?), they'll attempt to solve it by indirect buffs. I'm guessing 10-15% to target painter effectiveness. Then they'll add 10% to the falloff of all our guns and say "all done". When in reality that does just about nothing. All it does is create more conflict (STFU MINMATAR ALREADY GOT THEIR BOOST NOOB) between the races, which then makes CCP do something radical but not quite related, like double the cap usage of hybrids. Which then makes the minmatar players go "WTF, you still didn't fix it!" and gallente players go "WTF, we didn't need nerfing" and amarr/caldari players going "STFU U ALREADY GOT UR BOOST". It repeats... over and over and over. Oh this^^ is sooo true
Nocterne	Posted - 2008.08.09 21:51:00 - [71] And i see threads on char bazaar about people who WTB specced chars and crap prizes overall over crosstrained chars...Crosstrained chars are teh shiAT!!!
NightmareX MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.08.09 21:58:00 - [72] Edited by: NightmareX on 09/08/2008 22:06:09 Originally by: Nocterne And i see threads on char bazaar about people who WTB specced chars and crap prizes overall over crosstrained chars...Crosstrained chars are teh shiAT!!! Uhm, some peoples on this forum doesn't have a brain, AT ALL. Why the hell do you say that crosstrained characters are shit?. I'm asking because you can get a butt load more isk for a character that can fly a Machariel and a Vindicator, and you need to be cross trained to fly those. And it doesn't have anything to say if your cross trained or what, because the more SP you have, the more you are worth also. Like me, i'm pretty specializated in Minmatar and Gallente. I have both small, medium and Large Autocannon Spec and small, medium and Large Blaster Spec at level 4. I also have Minmatar and Gallente frig, cruiser and battleship skills at level 5. And for anyone that wonder, Minmatar + Gallente = True.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.09 22:09:00 - [73] Originally by: Nocterne And i see threads on char bazaar about people who WTB specced chars and crap prizes overall over crosstrained chars...Crosstrained chars are teh shiAT!!! Durr. People want an "x" race alt. If I flew say amarr, and had some excess cash, I'd want the most for my SP, or a character that was specialized in a single race, so you only "pay" for one race. If I wanted a caldari alt for ECM/ratting/whatever, I'd want all the SP to be in caldari systems, so I wouldn't "waste" any. Doesn't mean crosstrained characters suck at all. Astro is working up amarr after 25m SP of minmatar, and I don't feel like I'm missing anything. Sure, I can't fly some minnie ships as effectively as I could, but that's a personal choice. I can fly all turret based ships with excellence. Hell, I can even fly gallente frigates, because one day I decided I wanted to fly a taranis. Should you train up all race's cruisers to 3 and medium guns to 4 and call it good? No, that's pretty awful. Once you get enough SP (or as much as you're going to use), crosstraining is not only not a bad idea, it's really smart. You get more effective ships for a smaller amount of SP. Instead of spending 4mil in missiles and 4mil in drones to fly a few more minnie ships, I can spend 4-5mil SP and fly a ton more amarr ships. __________________________________________ Join channel "Salvage Minmatar" for minmatar fixing solutions and OT discussion. Oh hell, it's all offtopic.
Boz Well Minmatar	Posted - 2008.08.09 22:17:00 - [74] Just fyi, he didn't say they ARE shit, he said they are THE (teh) shit. Difference. That said, I tend to specialize, except my Matar char has Caldari BS 4 since I have t2 cruise/torp for phoonage. Other than that though, I prefer to stay focused on them, and they tend to sell better specialized. Still, if you don't plan to sell, just train what you want.
Jodie Amille Sadist Faction	Posted - 2008.08.09 23:19:00 - [75] Originally by: AstroPhobic Instead of spending 4mil in missiles and 4mil in drones to fly a few more minnie ships, I can spend 4-5mil SP and fly a ton more amarr ships. Pretty much why I started training Amarr as well. Just training cruiser 5(18 days) unlocks ALL Amarr t2 cruisers and Command ships, another 25 days and I have the guns to use them. It's a no brainer when the other option was training torps 5 and heavy drones 5 for one ship(phoon).
Ka Jolo Ministry of Destruction Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.10 06:29:00 - [76] Originally by: Kuzya Morozov My 2 day old (in EVE) friend just asked me if he should switch races, and this got me thinking: now that you've played EVE and flown the ships you've always wanted to, would you do something differently? Taking into account the old nerfs and the coming nerfs, would you start as a different race? Personally, I'd switch from Gallente to Amarr...Great BCs, T2 cruisers, awesome BS, great capitals. This question betrays a misunderstanding of how EVE works. The race one starts with has nothing to do with the race that builds the ships one chooses to fly. I am a Caldari by birth, but I fly Gallente ships. I started training skills to fly Gallente ships on day one; a few days into the game, I was already more skilled at Gallente ships than Caldari. If you wanted to have a different portrait, or if you wanted to have different attributes to enhance your ability to learn skills, then you might ask about starting a new character with a different race. But if you're concerned about nerfs and ships, you should ask instead about which progression of skills to pursue; and chances are, after playing just a few days you'd lose more skills by starting over than you'd gain. Your Money or Your Life: the journal of a space pirate
Yakov Draken Minmatar Tides Of War	Posted - 2008.08.10 09:41:00 - [77] I think alot of people are over rating Caldari even with the upcoming nerfs. Sure if you are pve inclined go Caldari and you will have some good pvp options. However Caldari pvp options are limited because shield tanking clashes with carrying tackle, MWD's etc and doesn't come close to matching up to remote repping armor tanked gangs. Caldari ECM ships rock, armor tanked Scorps and Ravens can slot into RR BS rangs, and HAM Drakes have a place but in alot of pvp situations mids are needed for tackle, MWDs etc. Add to this the fact that remote armor repping is much stronger than remote shield repping due to the insane cpu requirements of remote shield reps and Caldari is not a pvp option I would recommend unless you want to be a dedicated ECM pilot. I have known too many Caldari pilots who have always regretted it to recommend them to someone for pvp unless they are ECM inclined.
Lithel Shadow Incursion Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.11 21:11:00 - [78] I started off with Amarr, never regret it. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Artemis Rose Odd End of the Universe	Posted - 2008.08.11 21:49:00 - [79] Whichever ship/races I want to fly. __________________________________________________ Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine. WTB Purple Nerf Bat.
Naiary	Posted - 2008.08.11 21:52:00 - [80] people so fear for the gal blaster boots they they are beeing down rated to none excisting. i still have a hard time seeing that so far i still use the same tactic. mwd to target web deactivate mwd and kill.
Naomi Knight Amarr	Posted - 2008.08.11 21:56:00 - [81] In my opinion after the balance patch, every race will be good for pvp,no mater what other say. Well you wont know why suits you the most until you tried/watch them but it takes time, maybe after a half year you will get the idea how they pvp and they you can start skilling only for that race,or ships . Until then well make some iskies :P
Trollie	Posted - 2008.08.12 00:09:00 - [82] Amarr > Caldari > Gallente > Min ^Is the correct post nerf rating at the BS level, when flown with the appropriate shield or armor tanked remote rep fleet. The speed nerf does look like it is going to hit Gal BSes pretty hard. But if you can fly a Mega well, a maxed out Geddon is only 3-4 months away.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.12 00:30:00 - [83] Back when I was starting out, I tried Gallente T1 frigates and didn't like them very much. Then I tried Caldari T1 frigates (or, actually, the Merlin) and it was OK, but it was still lacking something. Then I tried the Rifter, and never looked back Currently training assault frigates V though, and then some other small ship related skills, going to be even more useful after the SISI changes hit. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Yelram Minmatar AnTi.	Posted - 2008.08.12 00:35:00 - [84] I would have picked Amarr instead of Minmatar. 36m SPs in Minnie ships now. I've finally started cross-training just last night actually. We're about to get over-nerfed again. Our BSs are sub par. I hate it when people say how great the Tempest is at killing smaller ships. WTF is that? And now it's getting nerfed again. They're about to make the Rapier/Huginn obsolete. Speed is supposed to be our greatest weapon and a Mega will not be faster and more agile than a Tempest... plus much better weapons. AnTi.
Kuzya Morozov Gallente L8L8L8	Posted - 2008.08.12 00:41:00 - [85] Yeah, I've a friend who flies all Minmatar and I tried fitting some of the BSes...Tempest has weak damage and tank compared to other BSes, phoon tries to do everything but fails horribly because you can't fit damage mods for both weapon types/PG amount is ridiculously low (can't fit torps with 650mms and dual rep tank, though maybe that's asking for too much), Mael has 5k extra PG with an AC fit and can't really fit tackle. Snipe pest does same DPS as snipe Mael because of it's bonuses but costs less, so I wish they'd move the extra Mael pg to the phoon... /rant
Benglada Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:33:00 - [86] i have a gallente/minimatar char and a caldari/amarr char. I can fly whatever i want just because i want to. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected])
Yakov Draken Minmatar Tides Of War	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:49:00 - [87] Edited by: Yakov Draken on 12/08/2008 01:50:29 Originally by: Kuzya Morozov phoon tries to do everything but fails horribly because you can't fit damage mods for both weapon types/PG amount is ridiculously low (can't fit torps with 650mms and dual rep tank, though maybe that's asking for too much) You are doing it wrong - the Phoon remains a solid ship it just requires huge amounts of SP's. For damage you don't worry about Gyro's unless you are going total gank with a small passive shield tank. The Phoon doesn't really have the PG to active tank so just go for Tri-marks, 1600mm plate, 2x T2 (or Amarr Navy for CPU) EANM's, 1x DCU with 2-3 BCU's depending on number of plates. CPU is tight so you really need factions mods for the best fits but so does a Mega. Shines in a RR BS gang because the large RR's don't require nearly as much PG as large AC's. Faction Torps are also an option to help with PG & CPU because they are cheap. I know the split bonus's is awful but the size of the drone bay and damage of bonused torps makes up for alot of sins.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.08.12 01:56:00 - [88] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 09/08/2008 22:13:28 Originally by: Nocterne And i see threads on char bazaar about people who WTB specced chars and crap prizes overall over crosstrained chars...Crosstrained chars are teh shiAT!!! Uhm, most peoples on this forum doesn't have a brain, AT ALL. Why the hell do you say that crosstrained characters are shit?. I'm asking because you can get a butt load more isk for a character that can fly a Machariel and a Vindicator, and you need to be cross trained to fly those. And it doesn't have anything to say if your cross trained or what, because the more SP you have, and the more specializated you are, the more you are worth also. Like me, i'm pretty specializated in Minmatar and Gallente. I have both small, medium and Large Autocannon Spec and small, medium and Large Blaster Spec at level 4. EDIT: Oh wait a sec, i actually have Medium Autocannon Spec at level 5. I also have Minmatar and Gallente frig, cruiser and battleship skills at level 5. And for anyone that wonder, Minmatar + Gallente = True. I would still consider you a highly specialized character. most people probably however only want half of what you have, and/or only want to pay for half. also he said the shit, and in my mind the shit implies a good thing, however if he had said cross trained characters are shit that implies a bad thing. the shit = good shit = bad also made a slight edit to your post in bold
Lorz0r You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.08.12 02:12:00 - [89] Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky IF you are going to PvP, Amarr/Mini/Gallente/Caldari in that order. well thats pretty much based entirely on your opinion and extremely short sighted. there's SO many reasons why one race would be better than another based on what you want to do
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2008.08.12 02:50:00 - [90] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer How about this? Pick the race you find coolest and most fun to play? Too many fotm chasers but ok. If you want to win today you need to pick minmatar. They got something going there. This. My main reason when picking a race was their coolness, not their uberness. And...imo...flying _not_ FOTM, beeing a seemingly "underdog" and managing to be still effective is so much more fun!

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