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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.08.10 18:46:00 -
[31]
It sounds like this is another one of those "I'm asking for this much, I need this much, but I'll take this much" investments. I love those.
Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
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Pies
Exanimo Inc
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Posted - 2008.08.10 19:41:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Zaqas I've had a chat to Markus in game and he's answered some very tough questions that I threw at him. He'll be updating this thread hopefully to take these into account.
His strategy is sound and he has a keen eye for detail. Our syndicate has decided to invest.
I love this. Treelox is spot on.
Coming from a 1 day old toon in a 1 day old corp with 1 member, whose only real post on the forums was a reservation for a 100m bond yesterday (which I assume wont actually be followed through).
Why did you not post the questions so we can all see and benefit from the answers? I've seen a few posts like this recently and to me it seems like a bad attempt to make the IPO sound more credible.
___________________ Tasty... |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.08.10 20:29:00 -
[33]
Sunday evenings are always a fun time. I go away to the beach with family on Friday and return on Sunday evening. It always seem while I go away at least 3-4 new IPO's launch.
Well back to business...
To the OP, do you realise your timing.
Investments in low sec POS's have turned out to be terrible investments.
If your making 500M ISK a month, why don't you carry on and run for a few months, and this will be self financing.
Why is it that every player thinks because they have done something well for 1 or 2 months they should then have ISK thrown at them. What happenned to hard work.
I would never invest in this type of operation.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.08.10 20:31:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Khalina Drakona Edited by: Khalina Drakona on 10/08/2008 12:49:19 Do you intend to seek the services of an Auditor? I know you posted you would be willing to undergo one but are you going to seek one out?
* Reservation removed. Iskies are tied up in other ventures.
Who the hell are you?
You have been posting for all of 5 days, so now your a qualified and respected auditor, lol!
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Crope
Minmatar Federal Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2008.08.10 20:42:00 -
[35]
Originally by: cosmoray
Originally by: Khalina Drakona Edited by: Khalina Drakona on 10/08/2008 12:49:19 Do you intend to seek the services of an Auditor? I know you posted you would be willing to undergo one but are you going to seek one out?
* Reservation removed. Iskies are tied up in other ventures.
Who the hell are you?
You have been posting for all of 5 days, so now your a qualified and respected auditor, lol!
(S)he didn't actually offer to do an audit, only asked if one was going to be performed. (Must be something in the wording though as I read it the same way the first time.)
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Nido Gentz
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Posted - 2008.08.10 20:44:00 -
[36]
People are always looking to find any excuse to flame others to make themselves feel bigger.
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Drakolus
Amarr Dopehead Industries FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.08.10 20:53:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Drakolus on 10/08/2008 20:53:54
Originally by: cosmoray
Originally by: Khalina Drakona Edited by: Khalina Drakona on 10/08/2008 12:49:19 Do you intend to seek the services of an Auditor? I know you posted you would be willing to undergo one but are you going to seek one out?
* Reservation removed. Iskies are tied up in other ventures.
Who the hell are you?
You have been posting for all of 5 days, so now your a qualified and respected auditor, lol!
NO NO, by no means. I was asking if there was going to be an audit conducted on this IPO by the OP. Sorry about the miscommunication.
I'm about the worst choice for an auditor possible. Just getting into trade and so far I'd rate myself as "marginal" in sucess. So again, not just no but hell no am I an auditor.
*and now you know "who" I am...ugh I hate that little box that I always seem to miss. _____________________________________________
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.08.10 20:56:00 -
[38]
sorry bro mis-read!
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Drakolus
Amarr Dopehead Industries FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.08.10 20:58:00 -
[39]
No problem :)
There goes any hope of safety in anonymity for my alt though. Meh. _____________________________________________
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.08.10 22:43:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Drakolus No problem :)
There goes any hope of safety in anonymity for my alt though. Meh.
living up to the corp name atleast....
:P --
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Gem 2Grind
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Posted - 2008.08.10 23:25:00 -
[41]
500 shares please,
Isk sent
thanks
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Drakolus
Amarr Dopehead Industries FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.08.10 23:42:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Drakolus No problem :)
There goes any hope of safety in anonymity for my alt though. Meh.
living up to the corp name atleast....
:P
I have so many "Dopehead" moments it's not funny. _____________________________________________
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Praetorian I
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Posted - 2008.08.11 01:05:00 -
[43]
Have the MD regulars been investing in this outside of thread? I see the shares available dropping and believe that mostly young characters have popped in to confirm buy-in.
Has there been a consensus that this is a as much as possible, a safe investment?
It's not that I'm waiting to decide on my own participation. I've already decided my interest are elsewhere.
The least I can say at this point is that progression of this OP is stranger than what I've seen in my short time here.
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Vhaluus
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Posted - 2008.08.11 01:28:00 -
[44]
qehagan (sp?) if this is you again my hat is off to you. I believe you'd be the first person in MD history to scam people with exactly the same scam less than a week after admitting to the first one.
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Praetorian I
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Posted - 2008.08.11 01:48:00 -
[45]
I think I have enough intel on the size of Markus' network to say that he is independant of Quegan. This does not eliminate the possibility that if he were scamming, that he has the balls and artistry to manipulate his independance as equal to legitimacy.
I'm holding off on painting my picture as; no real damage has been done, I'd rather not disclose my methods, this OP may work out to be legit.
I'm also guessing he's partly in damage control mode in order to leverage this OP for future presentations.
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.08.11 01:50:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Praetorian I Have the MD regulars been investing in this outside of thread? I see the shares available dropping and believe that mostly young characters have popped in to confirm buy-in.
Has there been a consensus that this is a as much as possible, a safe investment?
It's not that I'm waiting to decide on my own participation. I've already decided my interest are elsewhere.
The least I can say at this point is that progression of this OP is stranger than what I've seen in my short time here.
Take the time to read the responses above you, please. This 'investment opportunity' is at best a poorly thought-out endeavor, and at worst an outright scam.
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Praetorian I
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Posted - 2008.08.11 01:59:00 -
[47]
As I've said I've no intention of spending on this. My question asking if regular investors are buying in was to decide whether I should disclose the connections I've made.
I strongly agree with the likelihood that this is a scam. If so I'm glad the first round with Kwint was for presentation.
Being new here means flat and simple statements of scam can be easily flamed or redirected as 'rude' at a minimum.
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.08.11 02:04:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Praetorian I As I've said I've no intention of spending on this. My question asking if regular investors are buying in was to decide whether I should disclose the connections I've made.
I strongly agree with the likelihood that this is a scam. If so I'm glad the first round with Kwint was for presentation.
Being new here means flat and simple statements of scam can be easily flamed or redirected as 'rude' at a minimum.
If it's true it doesn't matter if it's a flame or rude. It's not wrong to flame or offend people who are trying to steal from you. But yeah... a good IPO to compare this one to is Kwint's. He's doing essentially the same thing, but look at the level of disclosure and hard numbers behind Kwint's venture and the vague and emotionally-driven nature of this one. Like I said, even if it's not a scam, it's not something you'd want to be investing in.
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Ricdics
Corporate Placement Holding
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Posted - 2008.08.11 02:09:00 -
[49]
Maybe we are, maybe we aren't |
Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.08.11 03:58:00 -
[50]
I did indeed loan the OP 1.5B and while he was a tad late with the last payment he volunteered a substantial late fee so I have no complaints.
Given my prior dealings with him I'd definitely consider investing in this but people should make up their own minds.
Personally, I'm experiencing some liquidity issues at the moment so until that's resolved I won't be investing in much of anything.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
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Markus De'Helude
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Posted - 2008.08.11 14:04:00 -
[51]
OK, well from the resounding lack of response from most of MD, i'm going to close this one down to the public, those that have already talked to me about shares will be able to do so, but as i have aquired 1.22b so far and have offers from friends of about 1.5b that will give me enough to get started.
Those who have already invested, you'll have the option of keeping the shares purchased so far, or returnng them for your isk, i'll be in contact with you today about that.
To the rest of the MD community, you complain about the lack of small IPO's, yet when one comes along its ripped apart without any advice as to how to make it better. We let a couple of people who I have never seen post before a month ago, come in and destroy my idea, and these people never had the decency to talk to me to get information beforehand.
I don't know Zaqua, or Naya Sky, or General Eyecandy. The 1st and last invested, the other didn't. I believe they are all different people, but who knows.
Atleast I now know, theres no point in looking for help from this community, as now adays everyones become to bitter to see a good oppertunity when it comes out and smacks them in the ass.
Now, i know alot of people are going to see this as vindication, that they were right and this is a scam. Think whatever you want, its not a scam, isk will be returned to those that want it, and my idea will go on without your support.
This may sound like its coming from a petulant child, but i'm home sick from work today with a cold, and was hoping to see that things had worked themselves out and i could get started setting up towers, but instead i'm closing my IPO, and going elsewhere for my funds... so needless to say, i'm not in a happy mood, so i may well sound whiney, and i don't give 2 shits of a frozen stick about it.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.08.11 14:12:00 -
[52]
To the OP, being ****y is one thing, but you have to understand facts.
You launch an IPO when another player launched a scam IPO with the exact same business plan and ran off with billions of ISK. Did you know this?
There are plenty of reasons you didn't get funding. 1. You are too new here to get billions of cash 2. You business plan was weak 3. Recent scam 4. You didn't answer questions well 5. It looked like ALT posting for reservations 6. You didn't do any research into MD
To get money you don't just turn up and get cash thrown at you. You need to do a lot of things to earn people's trust and investments, and unfortunately you didn't do that
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Chira Netanru
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Posted - 2008.08.11 15:35:00 -
[53]
Originally by: cosmoray To get money you don't just turn up and get cash thrown at you. You need to do a lot of things to earn people's trust and investments, and unfortunately you didn't do that
This is so funny considering the reality of the situation :)
MD made it too expensive for his IPO to get isk, so he turned elsewhere.
Also that reactions spreadsheet is pretty "lol".
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Praetorian I
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Posted - 2008.08.11 17:43:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Markus De'Helude To the rest of the MD community, you complain about the lack of small IPO's, yet when one comes along its ripped apart without any advice as to how to make it better. We let a couple of people who I have never seen post before a month ago, come in and destroy my idea, and these people never had the decency to talk to me to get information beforehand.
Have made a mental note, in future, drop someone's name as a relative reference vs a forum searchable. Simply I should have asked, 'has anyone looked at the founder of PPRO?'
I was waiting for this thread to either cleanup or fail on its own.
The success of scams at a minimum errodes at the strength, and at worse the viability of the secondary market. Anyone in search of legitimate plays are then personally vested in ferreting out the frauds.
I became more vocal as I noted your claim that investments were being made.
Am I one of the newbs responsible for destroying your idea? Really, I remind myself often that I am very inexperienced in this market and presume my own findings likely wrong assumptions.
If you are a legitimate operation then consider that you do not serve your responsibility to the success of this marketplace by presenting and failing to defend an IPO that is 'destroyed by posters a month old'. You refer to 'decency'. Decency is having enough respect in your prospective partners to contain yourself within this format. Your offline action in my mind, add to the weight of unknowns. 'If you are a legitimate operation', is the key phrase.
For the little that is is worth, GL and best wishes to anything you do legitimately.
Aside, I find it odd that this is now the second retration in MD in such a short time frame. Are retractions commonplace?
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Markus De'Helude
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Posted - 2008.08.11 18:13:00 -
[55]
The problem you had was investments being made?
There WERE investments made, am I supposed to say no one has yet? I didn't list names because i didn't think it was vital or anyones business, if someone wanted it known they would say here '500shares please' or something along those lines.
I don't want to sit here and have to defend myself agianst people that havn't taken the time to contact me and see whats going on.
As I have been very forthright with you in the mails we have exchanged, I just did not wish to let uninterested people know all the details.
If someone had a question, they were free to ask me, if i felt like it was information i could/should post here i did, if i didn't, i didn't.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2008.08.11 19:25:00 -
[56]
it should all be in this thread not in some back alley conversation Trashed sig, Shark was here |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.08.11 19:43:00 -
[57]
You have to treat the whole forum as a potential investor, therefore you have to answer all questions publically.
What do you have to hide by answering someone in game or here?
If you want the ISK than transparency is the only way.
You chose not to do this, and you will be added to the pile of other failed IPO's.
Come on people it isn't hard. You only have one chance so do your homework.
Simple guidelines: 1. Good business plan 2. Reasonable demand of ISK in line with history/reputation 3. Do your research 4. Don't fold under pressure 5. Good character (good reputation helps) 6. Some MD history (not just random quotes but adding something to discussion) 7. Answer ALL questions 8. Answer ALL questions
and
finally
9. Answer ALL questions
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Praetorian I
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Posted - 2008.08.11 20:12:00 -
[58]
disclaimer: I am basically a month old to the forum. I do not intend to sound as an authority. Really, I'm more of a student here. (numbers introduced in quote for clarity, is this OK?)
Originally by: Markus De'Helude 1. The problem you had was investments being made?
2. There WERE investments made, am I supposed to say no one has yet? I didn't list names because i didn't think it was vital or anyones business, if someone wanted it known they would say here '500shares please' or something along those lines.
3. I don't want to sit here and have to defend myself agianst people that havn't taken the time to contact me and see whats going on.
4. As I have been very forthright with you in the mails we have exchanged, I just did not wish to let uninterested people know all the details.
5. If someone had a question, they were free to ask me, if i felt like it was information i could/should post here i did, if i didn't, i didn't.
1. I have a problem with investments being made, prior to ratifying the question of fraud. As stated, I have a vested interested in frauds being shown the light of day.
2. i'Public'offering. All points of substantive nature need to be vetted publicly. As the applicant you become suspect if others make public, points that are later deemed substantive. No one says you aren't free to conduct private affairs. I for one would have rather that you simply reduced the size of the request and disconnected your private affairs from this public one.
3. As per 2. Also back alley convos allow a potential fraud to control the communication. Posting heresay even if its confirmed by the other party allows you control of context. Maybe the other party missed a nuance. Just opens the door for a lot of I didn't mean that. As is, the restriction of print and pause makes the communication combersome.
4. We exchanged one email a piece regarding my public announcment of the name of your main. Notice, in case you are legit, I have not repeated that name.
5. As per 3, allowing the applicant control of information creates a great oppurtunity for fraud.
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Praetorian I
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Posted - 2008.08.12 05:18:00 -
[59]
I just got online with the Eve client and see that I have a 2nd eve-mail from Markus.
First off, on the principal of consistency and conflit of interest, I would absolutely abstain from this investment. Fortunately that is minor as I am not a major investor.
Also, at this point its moot as the application is stated as having gone private.
In the interests of disclosure I will paraphrase simply for efficiency. I'll post the original eve-mail if requested.
API access to both Markus and the main sort of offered. Names of 2 investors referenced as ĉZaqauĈ and ĉeyecandyĈ. Disclaimer of collusion, intimate knowledge of the above two made.
Comments: Markus, I am nobody to be receiving your API keys. The value of information on your transactions and locations should only be submitted, if at all, to a trusted auditor. With the ammount of time you've been in game, I assume you've considered the risks involved in sharing such info.
I presume you meant Zaqas and Genius Eyecandy. I wanted to withhold the names as a matter of privacy and that this IPO is currently closed. But on principals that I've already cited and as a matter of record should a future connected IPO materialize, I disclosed that info.
I still find that coincidences feel engineered.
That you sent me this eve mail infers that I am principal in derailing your IPO. I would be sorry to have such a negative impact on an honest offering. More so on knowing that you are from Ontario. At this point I still do not know that I should be sorry.
I also consider that if you are marginally a scam risk as opposed to premeditated, then the developments in this thread may impact your choice of scam or true.
I also consider that 5 years in game should make for a crafty player and circle of friends.
Finally, I hope to avoid the trap of the fox. Self confidence that by inquery and intellect he could judge trust. Better that he trust first instincts, living to ask 'what if'.
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Dexion Slayer
Minmatar Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2008.08.12 11:14:00 -
[60]
Thread proves eve community is made of fail, nuff said.
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