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Markus De'Helude
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Posted - 2008.08.09 18:13:00 -
[1]
Damn forums ate my first post :(
Ok, well, what I am looking for is aprox 6b to help increase my moon chains.
Currently I run 2 towers and am looking to expand that total by 8 or 10.
Currently I am making aprox 500m a month in profit, more depending on the day I bring the reactions to market.
I have already once done a loan here, and would be willing to allow an audit to prove that
1) I already have the towers I say I have.
2) That i currently own and fly a Fenrir
3) That I have been selling reactions for awhile now.
The reason that I am looking for outside investment is that it would allow me to increase production NOW without using up all my liquid isk.
On share reserving...
I don't know how people are gonna react to this (most likely it'll shout SCAM!!!, but i hope that people ask questions before they pass this up), but i will not honor share reservations. By that i mean, if you reserve shares, but someone else sends the isk when you havn't, They get them. This is to prevent people from reserving shares and never sending the isk, making me have to find more investors.
PPRO also has a small research tower in the same system, this tower will not be included in the value of the corporation for this IPO.
There will be 6000 shares available to the public, and 2000 that will be mine. They are for the cost of the 2 already in place towers, and for the freighter.
Obviously, with 6000 shares, each share is 1m isk, sent to myself. Please include in the notes that its for x number of shares and who they are to be sent to. If its yourself, just say "me".
Risks-
Of course there are risks in this situation, but the towers are in a system 2j from a well know cap killing allaince, and the towers i have right now have been in place for over 2months with out problems. There are also numerous other pos's in that system that have never been bothered.
Also, as long as CCP doesn't institute another pos price change, the assests will not devalue, so in a case of the corporation shutting down, the towers will be pulled down and resold with the 6b being repaid to investors.
Dividends
They will be paid on the 1st Saturday of every month STARTING with OCTOBER. Reason for this is that it will take time to get the towers purchased, hauled, and setup. All profits will be spilt between the shares, and I will not take a cut, other then what my shares get.
Buy-back.
I will also be open to buying back shares AFTER the first dividend payment based on the isk I have available.
The buyback will be at 1m per share, so you will get your money back + whatever isk you've gained from dividends.
Now, i'm not to sure what else i need to address, but if people have any questions feel free to post them here or to evemail me with them. I will reply in the manner the question was asked.
So, I think thats it for now. Hopefully i'll get some investors :)
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Markus De'Helude
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Posted - 2008.08.09 18:14:00 -
[2]
Shares available
6000
Shares sold
0
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Zaqas
New World Capital Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.09 19:00:00 -
[3]
I have a couple of questions, I'll contact you in-game. |
Salisuka
Caldari
98.4
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Posted - 2008.08.09 20:41:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Markus De'Helude
Risks-
Of course there are risks in this situation, but the towers are in a system 2j from a well know cap killing allaince, and the towers i have right now have been in place for over 2months with out problems. There are also numerous other pos's in that system that have never been bothered.
Are you sure this cap-killing alliance won't come and bug to force you to hot-drop them?
Also, it's probably not a good idea to post a reaction IPO in the same week that the forum was hit by a 12B reaction ipo scam.
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Zaqas
New World Capital Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.08.09 20:47:00 -
[5]
I've had a chat to Markus in game and he's answered some very tough questions that I threw at him. He'll be updating this thread hopefully to take these into account.
His strategy is sound and he has a keen eye for detail. Our syndicate has decided to invest. |
Markus De'Helude
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Posted - 2008.08.09 20:52:00 -
[6]
for the first problem, I'm not to worried about the alliance next door. they are good people and don't need to force a fight to find one.
as to the 2nd point you raised.
there are ALWAYS scams going on here. If i were to wait a week after any scam here i'd never get a chance to post.
I've had a chat with someone with numerous questions. The answer which i'll post tonight, mainly because the inlaws have just arrived :)
Needless to say, they invested 500m after the chat.
Watch here for the answers in about 5 or 6h.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2008.08.09 21:01:00 -
[7]
This seems like a really risky IPO. A lot riskier than the OP seems to believe.
2 Months of operating smoothly doesn't mean the next 2-12 months will be as smooth. Especially if the nearby alliance is reading this thread. They will know they should wait until you get everything set up and then they can threaten you and try to get you to pay them off just to leave you alone. That's if they don't just come through and blow you up for fun.
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Synthesta
JG Associates
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Posted - 2008.08.09 21:20:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Shadarle
This seems like a really risky IPO. A lot riskier than the OP seems to believe.
2 Months of operating smoothly doesn't mean the next 2-12 months will be as smooth. Especially if the nearby alliance is reading this thread. They will know they should wait until you get everything set up and then they can threaten you and try to get you to pay them off just to leave you alone. That's if they don't just come through and blow you up for fun.
I think there's always going to be a risk of this no matter where the poses are located. It is eve after all. This risk can be addressed by placing the pos network somewhere else I guess. It can't be too bad to move it if the OP only has two towers up at the moment.
I quite like these POS IPOs as they can be quite profitable. The terms that the OP has offered seem very very reasnoble and I think there's potential for nice returns. Unfortunately I don't have any isk left to invest since it's tied up in other investments.
With that said, I'm interested to see what the OP is going to update his post with later on, particularly since he's been speaking to Zaqas' syndicate (Hows it going mate :)). I think I may have quite liked to invest in this one :(
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. One to watch! |
Khalina Drakona
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Posted - 2008.08.09 21:41:00 -
[9]
Do you intend to seek the services of an Auditor? I know you posted you would be willing to undergo one but are you going to seek one out?
That's pretty much the only question I can think of right now.
I'd like to reserve 50 shares. If you wouldn't mind (and it's not to much hassle) Please eve mail me to remind me. (At work right now and chances are good I'll forget)
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Ishanty
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Posted - 2008.08.09 22:56:00 -
[10]
I would like to know about the setup, and logistics you are going to use. Do you have buyers or are you just going to flood the market?
Second, may i take note that your biggest invester is a new character?
So do we trust you on your word or are you going to provide any form of security?
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Synthesta
JG Associates
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Posted - 2008.08.09 23:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ishanty
I would like to know about the setup, and logistics you are going to use. Do you have buyers or are you just going to flood the market?
Second, may i take note that your biggest invester is a new character?
So do we trust you on your word or are you going to provide any form of security?
I can vouch for Zakas. He's a syndicate manager on bahalf of quite a few very rich people, several of which are ceos in well known 0.0 alliances. Perhaps he'll share some more info with MD when he sees that people are interested. Or maybe not as I guess as an investor he doesn't need to worry about what other people think as he's giving money not asking for it! |
Calgorac
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.08.09 23:22:00 -
[12]
what kinda ROI are you projecting for your investers?
the business you plan to run is very time intensive
time involved and profitability Do not Scale up 1:1
I hope you have kept that in mind :)
For Buy back option Contact "James Omerand" ingame.39 billion under Management |
Lubimchik
Power Seed Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.08.10 00:16:00 -
[13]
If I can I would like to reserve 100 shares.
Contact me in game as well, as I have a few questions for you.
Nothing to hard, just some things to ease my mind!
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.08.10 02:17:00 -
[14]
Who else is helping you to run the reaction chain? It's really not possible to run a chain of 10+ towers yourself unless you are unemployed and play EVE as a job. Even then it's soul-destroyingly boring and labor-intensive. I ran half a dozen towers producing ferrogel, fermionic condensates, and hypersynaptic fibers in lowsec for 3 months before I was completely burnt-out and wanting to quit, (which I did). I can't imagine running more than 6 without a group of at least 3-5 more people.
You saying you have that many towers up doing reactions already and want to put yet MORE up makes me very nervous indeed. Also the fact that you want people to send you money immediately in the fear that they will not be able to do so later if they put in reservations is worrysome. What does it matter to you if a couple people don't send in their isk? Good IPOs are always oversubscribed anyway.
I find it more likely that you've anchored a few empty towers for the purposes of an audit and the reactions are not running. It's a TON of work to run reactions, you're always hauling something back and forth. With 6 towers I was hauling for a minimum of 2-4 hours a night and my setup was 4 jumps from Jita.
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Markus De'Helude
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Posted - 2008.08.10 02:57:00 -
[15]
the nearby alliance is populated with numerous friends of mine. In fact, the reason i setup there was BECAUSE they were so close, so i am not worried about them at all.
I will be running the chain myself, and no i don't play eve 23h a day. But I have been playing this game for awhile now, and have run this chain for over 2months, as well was running it in a different location for about 2months before that, but doing carbides. that is until the market fell outta them.
I'll be flooding the market for the most part, but will not be doing all towers on one reaction. This is to keep me from getting screwed if someone manipulates that particular market, or if something else happens causing profits to plummet.
AS to the questions from Zaqas
What is your nationality irl (ie which timezone are you in)?
I'm in ontario canada which is EST. which i believe is eve -5h
How long will the IPO run for? The shares will be available for 2weeks, if i don't raise 2.5b in that time all isk will be returned, although now i don't see that as being a problem.
the IPO itself will run indeffinitly. I hope to buy all the shares off investors as I can, making it so i get all the profit, and so that in time, if i want, i can take down the towers and do with them as i pleas.
How many people are helping you?
Me, myself, and I. AFK-ing fuel runs every day or so while at work, then on weekends or days off (i'm in landscaping and rain gives me a day off) hauling the reactions out for sale. Weekends are never the BEST time due to everyone else doing it, but getting it to hubs and putting up orders usually finds the orders sold within a day or 2, wednesday at the latest most times.
What are you doing to address the "if you get hit by a bus" scenario?
I will be looking into getting a friend in game to setup an alt in corp for this situation. I don't see it as being a problem finding someone i trust to do it either.
Will someone be able to liquide the assets on your behalf if you go awol for any unforseen reason?
See above.
----
Which moon minerals in particular are you working with?
Not really willing to disclose WHAT i react, but i don't use Dyspo or Prom.
Projected revenue and profits?
right now i'm making aprox 500m profit off the 2 towers. So if things work out should make about 2-2.5b a month in profit. Whatever that ROI is i don't know. Someone better at that kinda math can figure it out.
Who will be providing Auditing oversight?
That i don't know yet. I am willing to have someone do it and Zaqas has said he'd do it if required. Also said that usually the highest investor can choose who they have do the audit, so that'd work for me too. I don't know who to ask for this, so suggestions are apreciated.
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Markus De'Helude
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Posted - 2008.08.10 02:59:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Markus De''Helude on 10/08/2008 03:03:04
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
I find it more likely that you've anchored a few empty towers for the purposes of an audit and the reactions are not running. It's a TON of work to run reactions, you're always hauling something back and forth. With 6 towers I was hauling for a minimum of 2-4 hours a night and my setup was 4 jumps from Jita.
If you are hauling for 2-4h a night you are doing something wrong. The 2 towers i run right now require me to haul a few hours on weekends, and thats about it. reactions can be stored in a corp hanger or a station in system with very little work involved.
And 2 is not "that many". 2 is nothing, 10 is alot yes, but 2 is not that many. :)
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Markus De'Helude
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Posted - 2008.08.10 03:01:00 -
[17]
Final thing. There is currently a vote running to create the remaining shares. I have 1000 avail, 620 have been sold already (isk has been recieved) so anyone else who is planning on sending is may want to wait until Sunday night as i won't be able to send shares right away until then.
If you want to, send the isk and you'll get your shares when the vote completes.
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Vhaluus
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Posted - 2008.08.10 03:10:00 -
[18]
let me get this right... people are already sending you isk before an audit has even verified your claims? 
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.08.10 03:19:00 -
[19]
personal pet peev of mine...
When it is supposed to be an IP(ublic)O, that so many questions, comments, concerns are addressed in private via ingame convo's
Just saying.
--
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Markus De'Helude
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Posted - 2008.08.10 03:43:00 -
[20]
yes, people have purchased shares without the verification of an audit.
the first 500 sold was to zaraq... after a chat that took about...an hour maybe?
20 were sold to a small investor, who has reserved 80 more.
100 was sold to someone who wants to have a chat with me, guessing they are investing because of Zaraq.
the 500 that are reserved are from an ingame friend, just waiting for the iskies :)
and ya, this is public, but disclosing every single detail of the operation would a) invite people to come try and kill everything i have... so not benifical and b) would give the lazy a way to make isk by following what i've done... agian, not so benifical.
The important things that are brought up in private get discussed in the public forums here afterwards so that others don't have the same questions.
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Packtu'sa
Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.10 03:54:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Packtu''sa on 10/08/2008 03:54:56
Originally by: Markus De'Helude
Currently I run 2 towers and am looking to expand that total by 8 or 10.
That is a large jump. How many new towers are you buying exactly? 6-8 is a large range.
Originally by: Markus De'Helude
Currently I am making aprox 500m a month in profit, more depending on the day I bring the reactions to market.
So what is your profit margin like, really? Why don't you bring the materials to market on the day most profitable?
Originally by: Markus De'Helude
The reason that I am looking for outside investment is that it would allow me to increase production NOW without using up all my liquid isk.
How much do you have liquid?
Originally by: Markus De'Helude
There will be 6000 shares available to the public, and 2000 that will be mine. They are for the cost of the 2 already in place towers, and for the freighter.
So you are in effect donating the current assets to the corporation. Makes sense.
Originally by: Markus De'Helude
Of course there are risks in this situation, but the towers are in a system 2j from a well know cap killing allaince, and the towers i have right now have been in place for over 2months with out problems. There are also numerous other pos's in that system that have never been bothered.
Echoing the concerns of others in this thread, how do you know this alliance will not attack you? How do you know this alliance will not get kicked out? How do you know a hostile organization will not drop their capital fleet in and kill all your towers despite the presence of this 'friendly' alliance?
Originally by: Markus De'Helude
Also, as long as CCP doesn't institute another pos price change, the assests will not devalue, so in a case of the corporation shutting down, the towers will be pulled down and resold with the 6b being repaid to investors.
Starbase structures lose value the instant you buy them off the NPC market. Unless you sell them in outlaw space or buy them below NPC price, they will lose value. How will you manage this?
Originally by: Markus De'Helude
They will be paid on the 1st Saturday of every month STARTING with OCTOBER. Reason for this is that it will take time to get the towers purchased, hauled, and setup.
How much time? I have run towers before and it doesn't take that much time if your logistics are strong. It can take a while to run enough reactants through before you get any meaningful amount of product, but it should still be something.
Originally by: Markus De'Helude
There is NO minimum investment, but if i do not recieve 2.5b within the next week or 2 i will refund all isk.
You imply that you will start with partial investment. This was not stated before an edit. At what point will you begin expending newly-raised funds?
One more question: what is your guaranteed minimum rate of return, and if there is none, why?
Packtu'sa [NCIC]
Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp |
Praetorian I
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Posted - 2008.08.10 05:32:00 -
[22]
One of my favorite stories is the one of the scorpion and the fox.
Moral was that the scorpion could not help but be true to his nature.
Irony is that the fox was trapped too.
I found a scorpio born Nov 24 1979. I wonder if we have this in common?
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Shadowrunner99
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Posted - 2008.08.10 06:42:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Praetorian I
One of my favorite stories is the one of the scorpion and the fox.
Moral was that the scorpion could not help but be true to his nature.
Irony is that the fox was trapped too.
I found a scorpio born Nov 24 1979. I wonder if we have this in common?
Does the story go something like they both need to pass a stream (for some reason the scorpion convinces to help him), and based on the reasoning that the scorpion cant sting the fox because they will both die, the fox can safely do this. Yet, when it happens the scorpion does sting the fox and they both die, because the scorpion cant help himself that is his nature.
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Packtu'sa
Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp
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Posted - 2008.08.10 06:51:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Shadowrunner99
Originally by: Praetorian I
One of my favorite stories is the one of the scorpion and the fox.
Moral was that the scorpion could not help but be true to his nature.
Irony is that the fox was trapped too.
I found a scorpio born Nov 24 1979. I wonder if we have this in common?
Does the story go something like they both need to pass a stream (for some reason the scorpion convinces to help him), and based on the reasoning that the scorpion cant sting the fox because they will both die, the fox can safely do this. Yet, when it happens the scorpion does sting the fox and they both die, because the scorpion cant help himself that is his nature.
This has got to be the strangest thread derailment ever... where did this come from??
Packtu'sa [NCIC]
Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp |
Vhaluus
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Posted - 2008.08.10 07:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Packtu'sa
Originally by: Shadowrunner99
Originally by: Praetorian I
One of my favorite stories is the one of the scorpion and the fox.
Moral was that the scorpion could not help but be true to his nature.
Irony is that the fox was trapped too.
I found a scorpio born Nov 24 1979. I wonder if we have this in common?
Does the story go something like they both need to pass a stream (for some reason the scorpion convinces to help him), and based on the reasoning that the scorpion cant sting the fox because they will both die, the fox can safely do this. Yet, when it happens the scorpion does sting the fox and they both die, because the scorpion cant help himself that is his nature.
This has got to be the strangest thread derailment ever... where did this come from??
I concur, I am vastly confused.
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Praetorian I
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Posted - 2008.08.10 08:10:00 -
[26]
For me the simple first question was, what is the connection between Markus and Drakus.
No one else asked so I guess it's trivial.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.08.10 12:04:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 10/08/2008 12:04:13
Originally by: Packtu'sa
Originally by: Markus De'Helude
Also, as long as CCP doesn't institute another pos price change, the assests will not devalue, so in a case of the corporation shutting down, the towers will be pulled down and resold with the 6b being repaid to investors.
Starbase structures lose value the instant you buy them off the NPC market. Unless you sell them in outlaw space or buy them below NPC price, they will lose value. How will you manage this?
This is not a major problem - it just takes a bit longer. You can haul the structures out to popular places where people would normally buy new ones from NPCs (Perimeter is a good place for this) and list them on the market at 0.01 isk less. I once got rid of an Efficient Equipment Assembly Array at the old 450m price that way without any problems.
Markus: If you want to work out your ROI, download a copy of this google doc and put the values for your reactions into it. Let me know if you need any help. I originally put it together for a very similar IPO last year.
Also, re security: I'd suggest that you approach some of the people who might be called upon to defend the towers and have them post here, or better yet, post here and invest.
Zzz research towers
Direrie
NEW: Liekuri
20:1 low-end compression |
Praetorian I
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Posted - 2008.08.10 13:03:00 -
[28]
Remarkable! Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
re security: I'd suggest that you approach some of the people who might be called upon to defend the towers and have them post here, or better yet, post here and ...
INVEST.
(forgive the slight alteration)
This precisely the wall that I find myself at.
I believe your main, and at least your circle of friends, could have easily fronted/shared in your first investment. 'Cap killers' operate at brackets comparable to MD, no?
What then your intent?
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Markus De'Helude
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Posted - 2008.08.10 14:28:00 -
[29]
the number of new towers will depend on the amount of isk invested. I would LIKE to get 8 more, but if thats not possible, then 6, if not then 4, and so one down the line.
there is no "most profitable day" for these things. I find that usually the weekends are the worst becuase everyone and their grandma is bringing stuff to market then, but this weekend looked pretty decent. I try to get it onto market on a tuesday or wednesday, and can usually get 2-4 more isk p/u, its not alot, but it can add a couple mil onto the end of the month wich is always nice.
Currently i have, about 1.5b liquid, a little less now that i have purchased the minerals for the next month on the 2 towers i have active already.
I'm not worried about the allaince comeing after me because i have people in that alliance that are friends, and have invested/are going to invest 1b so far into my IPO.
Its all in lowsec/empire so theres no worries about them being 'kick out', and if they move to the far reaches of eden, i may just follow suit with the towers. Providing the shareholders don't mind.
Ok, so i would lose .01isk per mod, thats not a big deal. I might take a little time to get it all sold, but i don't foresee it being a huge problem. Towers are always being bought, and all ya have to do is put'em up in the same station that sells them for .01 isk less.
It would take a week atleast to get all the towers setup and running. I like to have a week running the simple reactions so that there 2 weeks worth ready to go once the towers are all up and ready to go. So, that would be about 2 weeks before I started with the complex reactions. Its aug 10th now, if i were to get all the isk i need tonight then i could get started, but i don't see that happening. So, it would take some time. Thats why there won't be any dividends given until the 1st saturday of October.
...
I said that if i don't get the 2.5b in 2 weeks i won't go ahead. So... i would assume that it means that I will wait 2 weeks before I do anything with the isk, or that as soon as i get 2.5b i will start to use it. Sorry for sounding a little rude there, but not quite sure why you would ask that question. The answer seemed fairly clear to me.
Kazuo, I'll tell you the same thing i told them when they asked why i went public, and the same reason i came here looknig for a loan before when i could have asked friends.
Reputation. Its hard to come by in this game, and who knows what i would like to do later on. If this goes well, might want to start a larger corp and get others involved and want more isk to do that... or get into JF production, who knows, but if no one knows me, i can't get any more investments.
I was originally thinking about asking for 10-15b, was going to use the extra to get a JF to make fueling and extration even easier, but I figured that was to much to ask for, for someone with my limited reputation so far.
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.08.10 17:31:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Markus De'Helude
Edited by: Markus De''Helude on 10/08/2008 03:03:04
If you are hauling for 2-4h a night you are doing something wrong. The 2 towers i run right now require me to haul a few hours on weekends, and thats about it. reactions can be stored in a corp hanger or a station in system with very little work involved.
And 2 is not "that many". 2 is nothing, 10 is alot yes, but 2 is not that many. :)
Depending on what reactions you are doing, each reactor is produing between 5k-10k m3 of finished products per day and requires the same amount of inputs (in m3). For 6 towers this translated to 2 round-trip hauls in a deepspace transport per day. For 10 towers you would need one more trip. Storing products in a corp hanger or at a station only delays when you will have to haul and kills your cashflow. You state that you will not be doing dysprosium/promethium based reactions, which is good because those reactions would destroy you if you did not set aside enough cash. (Fermionic costs 800-900m a week to run, and Ferrogel just over 1bn). However, the non-dyspro/prome reactions are frankly either running at a loss, or only marginally profitable. With the amount of risk involved, (which you seem to have mitigated somewhat with your alliance connections) why would you not run the most profitable reactions possible? The risk is the same either way, and the workload for the same return is far greater running less profitable reactions.
The only way you can remove the need for hauling in t2 transports is if you use a jump freighter, which you have not mentioned yet. Having a jump freighter would indeed reduce your workload considerably, but you have not mentioned access to one in your business plan as yet. Do you have a jump freighter?
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.08.10 18:46:00 -
[31]
It sounds like this is another one of those "I'm asking for this much, I need this much, but I'll take this much" investments. I love those.
Quote:
Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
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Pies
Exanimo Inc
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Posted - 2008.08.10 19:41:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Zaqas
I've had a chat to Markus in game and he's answered some very tough questions that I threw at him. He'll be updating this thread hopefully to take these into account.
His strategy is sound and he has a keen eye for detail. Our syndicate has decided to invest.
I love this. Treelox is spot on.
Coming from a 1 day old toon in a 1 day old corp with 1 member, whose only real post on the forums was a reservation for a 100m bond yesterday (which I assume wont actually be followed through).
Why did you not post the questions so we can all see and benefit from the answers? I've seen a few posts like this recently and to me it seems like a bad attempt to make the IPO sound more credible. 
___________________
Tasty... |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.08.10 20:29:00 -
[33]
Sunday evenings are always a fun time. I go away to the beach with family on Friday and return on Sunday evening. It always seem while I go away at least 3-4 new IPO's launch.
Well back to business...
To the OP, do you realise your timing.
Investments in low sec POS's have turned out to be terrible investments.
If your making 500M ISK a month, why don't you carry on and run for a few months, and this will be self financing.
Why is it that every player thinks because they have done something well for 1 or 2 months they should then have ISK thrown at them. What happenned to hard work.
I would never invest in this type of operation.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.08.10 20:31:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Khalina Drakona
Edited by: Khalina Drakona on 10/08/2008 12:49:19
Do you intend to seek the services of an Auditor? I know you posted you would be willing to undergo one but are you going to seek one out?
* Reservation removed. Iskies are tied up in other ventures.
Who the hell are you?
You have been posting for all of 5 days, so now your a qualified and respected auditor, lol!
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Crope
Minmatar
Federal Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2008.08.10 20:42:00 -
[35]
Originally by: cosmoray
Originally by: Khalina Drakona
Edited by: Khalina Drakona on 10/08/2008 12:49:19
Do you intend to seek the services of an Auditor? I know you posted you would be willing to undergo one but are you going to seek one out?
* Reservation removed. Iskies are tied up in other ventures.
Who the hell are you?
You have been posting for all of 5 days, so now your a qualified and respected auditor, lol!
(S)he didn't actually offer to do an audit, only asked if one was going to be performed. (Must be something in the wording though as I read it the same way the first time.)
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Nido Gentz
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Posted - 2008.08.10 20:44:00 -
[36]
People are always looking to find any excuse to flame others to make themselves feel bigger.
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Drakolus
Amarr
Dopehead Industries
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 20:53:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Drakolus on 10/08/2008 20:53:54
Originally by: cosmoray
Originally by: Khalina Drakona
Edited by: Khalina Drakona on 10/08/2008 12:49:19
Do you intend to seek the services of an Auditor? I know you posted you would be willing to undergo one but are you going to seek one out?
* Reservation removed. Iskies are tied up in other ventures.
Who the hell are you?
You have been posting for all of 5 days, so now your a qualified and respected auditor, lol!
NO NO, by no means. I was asking if there was going to be an audit conducted on this IPO by the OP. Sorry about the miscommunication.
I'm about the worst choice for an auditor possible. Just getting into trade and so far I'd rate myself as "marginal" in sucess. So again, not just no but hell no am I an auditor.
*and now you know "who" I am...ugh I hate that little box that I always seem to miss.
_____________________________________________
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 20:56:00 -
[38]
sorry bro mis-read!
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Drakolus
Amarr
Dopehead Industries
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 20:58:00 -
[39]
No problem :)
There goes any hope of safety in anonymity for my alt though. Meh.
_____________________________________________
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 22:43:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Drakolus
No problem :)
There goes any hope of safety in anonymity for my alt though. Meh.
living up to the corp name atleast....
:P
--
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Gem 2Grind
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 23:25:00 -
[41]
500 shares please,
Isk sent
thanks
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Drakolus
Amarr
Dopehead Industries
FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.08.10 23:42:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Drakolus
No problem :)
There goes any hope of safety in anonymity for my alt though. Meh.
living up to the corp name atleast....
:P
I have so many "Dopehead" moments it's not funny.
_____________________________________________
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Praetorian I
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 01:05:00 -
[43]
Have the MD regulars been investing in this outside of thread? I see the shares available dropping and believe that mostly young characters have popped in to confirm buy-in.
Has there been a consensus that this is a as much as possible, a safe investment?
It's not that I'm waiting to decide on my own participation. I've already decided my interest are elsewhere.
The least I can say at this point is that progression of this OP is stranger than what I've seen in my short time here.
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Vhaluus
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Posted - 2008.08.11 01:28:00 -
[44]
qehagan (sp?) if this is you again my hat is off to you. I believe you'd be the first person in MD history to scam people with exactly the same scam less than a week after admitting to the first one.
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Praetorian I
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Posted - 2008.08.11 01:48:00 -
[45]
I think I have enough intel on the size of Markus' network to say that he is independant of Quegan. This does not eliminate the possibility that if he were scamming, that he has the balls and artistry to manipulate his independance as equal to legitimacy.
I'm holding off on painting my picture as; no real damage has been done, I'd rather not disclose my methods, this OP may work out to be legit.
I'm also guessing he's partly in damage control mode in order to leverage this OP for future presentations.
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2008.08.11 01:50:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Praetorian I
Have the MD regulars been investing in this outside of thread? I see the shares available dropping and believe that mostly young characters have popped in to confirm buy-in.
Has there been a consensus that this is a as much as possible, a safe investment?
It's not that I'm waiting to decide on my own participation. I've already decided my interest are elsewhere.
The least I can say at this point is that progression of this OP is stranger than what I've seen in my short time here.
Take the time to read the responses above you, please. This 'investment opportunity' is at best a poorly thought-out endeavor, and at worst an outright scam.
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Praetorian I
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Posted - 2008.08.11 01:59:00 -
[47]
As I've said I've no intention of spending on this. My question asking if regular investors are buying in was to decide whether I should disclose the connections I've made.
I strongly agree with the likelihood that this is a scam. If so I'm glad the first round with Kwint was for presentation.
Being new here means flat and simple statements of scam can be easily flamed or redirected as 'rude' at a minimum.
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Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 02:04:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Praetorian I
As I've said I've no intention of spending on this. My question asking if regular investors are buying in was to decide whether I should disclose the connections I've made.
I strongly agree with the likelihood that this is a scam. If so I'm glad the first round with Kwint was for presentation.
Being new here means flat and simple statements of scam can be easily flamed or redirected as 'rude' at a minimum.
If it's true it doesn't matter if it's a flame or rude. It's not wrong to flame or offend people who are trying to steal from you. But yeah... a good IPO to compare this one to is Kwint's. He's doing essentially the same thing, but look at the level of disclosure and hard numbers behind Kwint's venture and the vague and emotionally-driven nature of this one. Like I said, even if it's not a scam, it's not something you'd want to be investing in.
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Ricdics
Corporate Placement Holding
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Posted - 2008.08.11 02:09:00 -
[49]
Maybe we are, maybe we aren't |
Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 03:58:00 -
[50]
I did indeed loan the OP 1.5B and while he was a tad late with the last payment he volunteered a substantial late fee so I have no complaints.
Given my prior dealings with him I'd definitely consider investing in this but people should make up their own minds.
Personally, I'm experiencing some liquidity issues at the moment so until that's resolved I won't be investing in much of anything.
Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals |
Markus De'Helude
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Posted - 2008.08.11 14:04:00 -
[51]
OK, well from the resounding lack of response from most of MD, i'm going to close this one down to the public, those that have already talked to me about shares will be able to do so, but as i have aquired 1.22b so far and have offers from friends of about 1.5b that will give me enough to get started.
Those who have already invested, you'll have the option of keeping the shares purchased so far, or returnng them for your isk, i'll be in contact with you today about that.
To the rest of the MD community, you complain about the lack of small IPO's, yet when one comes along its ripped apart without any advice as to how to make it better. We let a couple of people who I have never seen post before a month ago, come in and destroy my idea, and these people never had the decency to talk to me to get information beforehand.
I don't know Zaqua, or Naya Sky, or General Eyecandy. The 1st and last invested, the other didn't. I believe they are all different people, but who knows.
Atleast I now know, theres no point in looking for help from this community, as now adays everyones become to bitter to see a good oppertunity when it comes out and smacks them in the ass.
Now, i know alot of people are going to see this as vindication, that they were right and this is a scam. Think whatever you want, its not a scam, isk will be returned to those that want it, and my idea will go on without your support.
This may sound like its coming from a petulant child, but i'm home sick from work today with a cold, and was hoping to see that things had worked themselves out and i could get started setting up towers, but instead i'm closing my IPO, and going elsewhere for my funds... so needless to say, i'm not in a happy mood, so i may well sound whiney, and i don't give 2 shits of a frozen stick about it.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.08.11 14:12:00 -
[52]
To the OP, being ****y is one thing, but you have to understand facts.
You launch an IPO when another player launched a scam IPO with the exact same business plan and ran off with billions of ISK.
Did you know this?
There are plenty of reasons you didn't get funding.
1. You are too new here to get billions of cash
2. You business plan was weak
3. Recent scam
4. You didn't answer questions well
5. It looked like ALT posting for reservations
6. You didn't do any research into MD
To get money you don't just turn up and get cash thrown at you. You need to do a lot of things to earn people's trust and investments, and unfortunately you didn't do that
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Chira Netanru
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 15:35:00 -
[53]
Originally by: cosmoray
To get money you don't just turn up and get cash thrown at you. You need to do a lot of things to earn people's trust and investments, and unfortunately you didn't do that
This is so funny considering the reality of the situation :)
MD made it too expensive for his IPO to get isk, so he turned elsewhere.
Also that reactions spreadsheet is pretty "lol".
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Praetorian I
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Posted - 2008.08.11 17:43:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Markus De'Helude
To the rest of the MD community, you complain about the lack of small IPO's, yet when one comes along its ripped apart without any advice as to how to make it better. We let a couple of people who I have never seen post before a month ago, come in and destroy my idea, and these people never had the decency to talk to me to get information beforehand.
Have made a mental note, in future, drop someone's name as a relative reference vs a forum searchable. Simply I should have asked, 'has anyone looked at the founder of PPRO?'
I was waiting for this thread to either cleanup or fail on its own.
The success of scams at a minimum errodes at the strength, and at worse the viability of the secondary market. Anyone in search of legitimate plays are then personally vested in ferreting out the frauds.
I became more vocal as I noted your claim that investments were being made.
Am I one of the newbs responsible for destroying your idea? Really, I remind myself often that I am very inexperienced in this market and presume my own findings likely wrong assumptions.
If you are a legitimate operation then consider that you do not serve your responsibility to the success of this marketplace by presenting and failing to defend an IPO that is 'destroyed by posters a month old'. You refer to 'decency'. Decency is having enough respect in your prospective partners to contain yourself within this format. Your offline action in my mind, add to the weight of unknowns. 'If you are a legitimate operation', is the key phrase.
For the little that is is worth, GL and best wishes to anything you do legitimately.
Aside, I find it odd that this is now the second retration in MD in such a short time frame. Are retractions commonplace?
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Markus De'Helude
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Posted - 2008.08.11 18:13:00 -
[55]
The problem you had was investments being made?
There WERE investments made, am I supposed to say no one has yet? I didn't list names because i didn't think it was vital or anyones business, if someone wanted it known they would say here '500shares please' or something along those lines.
I don't want to sit here and have to defend myself agianst people that havn't taken the time to contact me and see whats going on.
As I have been very forthright with you in the mails we have exchanged, I just did not wish to let uninterested people know all the details.
If someone had a question, they were free to ask me, if i felt like it was information i could/should post here i did, if i didn't, i didn't.
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SiJira
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 19:25:00 -
[56]
it should all be in this thread not in some back alley conversation
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 19:43:00 -
[57]
You have to treat the whole forum as a potential investor, therefore you have to answer all questions publically.
What do you have to hide by answering someone in game or here?
If you want the ISK than transparency is the only way.
You chose not to do this, and you will be added to the pile of other failed IPO's.
Come on people it isn't hard. You only have one chance so do your homework.
Simple guidelines:
1. Good business plan
2. Reasonable demand of ISK in line with history/reputation
3. Do your research
4. Don't fold under pressure
5. Good character (good reputation helps)
6. Some MD history (not just random quotes but adding something to discussion)
7. Answer ALL questions
8. Answer ALL questions
and
finally
9. Answer ALL questions
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Praetorian I
|
Posted - 2008.08.11 20:12:00 -
[58]
disclaimer: I am basically a month old to the forum. I do not intend to sound as an authority. Really, I'm more of a student here.
(numbers introduced in quote for clarity, is this OK?)
Originally by: Markus De'Helude
1. The problem you had was investments being made?
2. There WERE investments made, am I supposed to say no one has yet? I didn't list names because i didn't think it was vital or anyones business, if someone wanted it known they would say here '500shares please' or something along those lines.
3. I don't want to sit here and have to defend myself agianst people that havn't taken the time to contact me and see whats going on.
4. As I have been very forthright with you in the mails we have exchanged, I just did not wish to let uninterested people know all the details.
5. If someone had a question, they were free to ask me, if i felt like it was information i could/should post here i did, if i didn't, i didn't.
1. I have a problem with investments being made, prior to ratifying the question of fraud. As stated, I have a vested interested in frauds being shown the light of day.
2. i'Public'offering. All points of substantive nature need to be vetted publicly. As the applicant you become suspect if others make public, points that are later deemed substantive. No one says you aren't free to conduct private affairs. I for one would have rather that you simply reduced the size of the request and disconnected your private affairs from this public one.
3. As per 2. Also back alley convos allow a potential fraud to control the communication. Posting heresay even if its confirmed by the other party allows you control of context. Maybe the other party missed a nuance. Just opens the door for a lot of I didn't mean that. As is, the restriction of print and pause makes the communication combersome.
4. We exchanged one email a piece regarding my public announcment of the name of your main. Notice, in case you are legit, I have not repeated that name.
5. As per 3, allowing the applicant control of information creates a great oppurtunity for fraud.
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Praetorian I
|
Posted - 2008.08.12 05:18:00 -
[59]
I just got online with the Eve client and see that I have a 2nd eve-mail from Markus.
First off, on the principal of consistency and conflit of interest, I would absolutely abstain from this investment. Fortunately that is minor as I am not a major investor.
Also, at this point its moot as the application is stated as having gone private.
In the interests of disclosure I will paraphrase simply for efficiency. I'll post the original eve-mail if requested.
API access to both Markus and the main sort of offered.
Names of 2 investors referenced as æZaqauÆ and æeyecandyÆ.
Disclaimer of collusion, intimate knowledge of the above two made.
Comments:
Markus, I am nobody to be receiving your API keys. The value of information on your transactions and locations should only be submitted, if at all, to a trusted auditor. With the ammount of time you've been in game, I assume you've considered the risks involved in sharing such info.
I presume you meant Zaqas and Genius Eyecandy. I wanted to withhold the names as a matter of privacy and that this IPO is currently closed. But on principals that I've already cited and as a matter of record should a future connected IPO materialize, I disclosed that info.
I still find that coincidences feel engineered.
That you sent me this eve mail infers that I am principal in derailing your IPO. I would be sorry to have such a negative impact on an honest offering. More so on knowing that you are from Ontario. At this point I still do not know that I should be sorry.
I also consider that if you are marginally a scam risk as opposed to premeditated, then the developments in this thread may impact your choice of scam or true.
I also consider that 5 years in game should make for a crafty player and circle of friends.
Finally, I hope to avoid the trap of the fox. Self confidence that by inquery and intellect he could judge trust. Better that he trust first instincts, living to ask 'what if'.
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Dexion Slayer
Minmatar
Einherjar Rising
|
Posted - 2008.08.12 11:14:00 -
[60]
Thread proves eve community is made of fail, nuff said.
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RiceGay
|
Posted - 2008.08.12 15:20:00 -
[61]
this is topic is closed but jus to set this straight: hes a trustable guy.
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Ricdics
Corporate Placement Holding
|
Posted - 2008.08.12 15:35:00 -
[62]
Originally by: RiceGay
this is topic is closed but jus to set this straight: hes a trustable guy.
Thanks for letting us know.. |
Genius Eyecandy
Next Generation Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.08.12 20:42:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Praetorian I
Edit2:
Almost forgot about Zaqas. Zaqas is an auditor? Why do I only find 5 posts in his name. And Zaqas' questions/endorsements are presented by Markus in post 15. I would think a hopeful auditor would take the time to make his own comments.
In the Naya Sky IPO that backed out. Zaqas reserves early in post 6 and is followed 1 minute later by Genius Eyecandy in post 8. Another likely alt with all of 2 posts in forums, both inferences of endorsement. I hear an orchestra.
Markus Delude, Zaqas, Naya Sky, Genius Eyecandy. There's so much alt activity that I think I hear a choir, conducted by a main, what's his name again?
So heres my story
I've wanted to invest for a while and ive been looking at IPO's for a long time so i read Markus De'helude's IPO and thought it sounded good, so i mailed him ingame to request 100 share..
After that i looked at MD again and noticed that Naya Sky had made a brand new IPO and like Markus's IPO i liked it but had a question or two so i sendt her a ingame mail to get answer, but since she where only selling 1000 share i reserved mine.. Then i looked at the clock and it was 00:22 in Denmark so i went to bed..
The next morning i looked at Naya sky post and founded that everyone had started to flame her witch i thought was rude (yes yougotripped i do mean you) tbh i can understand that everyone had questions, but there was no need to flame her right from the start.. after reading post 23 i thought there was no need for me to post in her IPO because she had already decided to quit the game
Markus De'helude - IPO owner i've invested in
Zaqas - Dont know him, dont care who he is either
Naya Sky - IPO owner i wanted to invest in if she returns (still want to if she came back, but seeing YGR got her ID and pass i wouldent because he would probably like to scam me now 
Genius Eyecandy - Research Alt
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2008.08.13 02:45:00 -
[64]
to quote The Godfather
Nothing personal, its just business...
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